Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi All,

With the understanding that this is long before the age of 
standardisation of anything, and one author's table of ornaments is not 
necessarily what another composer would have, and performers would 
naturally have taken great liberties with interpretation of signs. Not 
until 19c did people become very rigid about ornaments and signs. I 
write speaking as a harpsichord player myself.


As an aside, but related, to this day nobody really has any clear idea 
what the single and double strokes on stems that are ornament signs in 
English Virginal Music really mean. There are dozens of different opinions.


As for whether trills and shakes start on the principal note or not, 
that is an Eternal Debate that will never be resolved.


Isn't there an article here about making new ornaments for noteheads, 
for 18c French music in particular?


https://lilypondblog.org/2013/08/adding-ornamentations-to-note-heads-part-1/


Andrew


On 10/07/2019 1:21 am, Torsten Hämmerle wrote:

prelleur_treatise_ornaments_1731.png



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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Following Aaron's formidable example, I've done some minor modifications.
Just a matter of taste, of course…:

- straight lines (flags.ugrace) to more resemble the original symbols and
make them more distinguishable from a caesura.

- "downgraded" the syntax to make it all work with the current stable
version 2.18.2, too (# in front of the musicglyph names and \combine instead
of the new \overlay command.

- turn instead of trill as a basis, simply because it will stay closer to
the notehead without having to tweak outside-staff-priority. If there's a
concurring text script like "the shake turned", this text will be placed
between the notehead and a trill, but a turn will stay with its notehead.


%
\version "2.18.2"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)
backfall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-65 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
backfall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob backfall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \combine 
  \lower #'0.75 \rotate #'205 \scale #'(1 . 1.25) \musicglyph
#"ties.lyric.default"
  \combine
  \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
  \lower #'0.5 \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"

shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup ))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

\relative {
  \omit Staff.Clef
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  \override Staff.TextScript.staff-padding = #4
  \cadenzaOn
  <>^"Forefall"
  s4 g'\forefall s8 \bar "|" s8 f16[ g8.] s4 \bar "||"
  <>^"Backfall"
  s4 g\backfall s8 \bar "|" s8 a16[ g8.] s4 \bar "||"
  <>^"Turn"
  s4 g\turn s8 \bar "|" s8 g16[ a32 g f16 g] s8 \bar "||"
  <>^"the shake turned"
  s4 g\shakeTurned s8 \bar "|" s8 a16[ g a g] fis[ g8.] s8\bar "||"
}
%

OfTheGraces.png
  

All the best,
Torsten




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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-07-09 7:34 pm, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2019-07-09 7:11 pm, Eby Mani wrote:

Many Thanks Torsten, exactly the thing i was looking for.

Now, how to do those "Forefall" and "the shake turned" symbols in
lilypond. any snippets ?.


You could do something like this:


\version "2.19.83"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \overlay {
  \raise #'0.65 \rotate #'-150 \musicglyph "ties.lyric.short"
  \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
  \lower #'0.55 \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
}
shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

{ b'4 b'\forefall b'\shakeTurned b' }


Here I am partying on the "trill" articulation and changing its
stencil using glyphs that already exist in the notation font.


Apologies.  I had meant to include an image as well.


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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-07-09 7:11 pm, Eby Mani wrote:

Many Thanks Torsten, exactly the thing i was looking for.

Now, how to do those "Forefall" and "the shake turned" symbols in
lilypond. any snippets ?.


You could do something like this:


\version "2.19.83"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \overlay {
  \raise #'0.65 \rotate #'-150 \musicglyph "ties.lyric.short"
  \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
  \lower #'0.55 \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
}
shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

{ b'4 b'\forefall b'\shakeTurned b' }


Here I am partying on the "trill" articulation and changing its stencil 
using glyphs that already exist in the notation font.



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

As "Insert Image" doesn't seem to have worked, here's a PNG file (hopefully)
prelleur_treatise_ornaments_1731.png

  

Torsten




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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Hi Eby et al.,

In Peter Prelleur's 1731 treatise "The Modern Musick-Master", there are some
hints about keyboard ornamentation in the section "Of the Graces:". And, lo
and behold, that seems to clarify the issue, indeed:

 

HTH,
Torsten



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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[eby_km]

 Hello Andrew,

This is by William Hine, before 1750, the title simply says Voluntary. I have 
read somewhere how to interpret English music written before 1750.

I'm not sure if inverted-mordent/trill were written like caesura in those days. 
If you look at the sample, there are turns and trill or pralls. Is there any 
online reference for these non-standard ornament shape ?.

eby
 On Sunday, 7 July, 2019, 9:58:30 PM IST, Andrew Bernard 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello eby_km,
Well they are definitely keyboard ornaments. It would be helpful if you could 
say what the piece is and who is the composer and date? There are countless 
non-standard ornaments in 18c - this was well before the stage of 
standardization of notation. Not caesura, that much is certain.
Andrew

On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 01:24,  wrote:

Hello all, i'm typesetting a handwritten score found on internet, it does have 
several marking similar to "caesura" and "fermata + caesura" above the note 
itself and many youtube recordings this is played with "prall" variants for 
those weird markings, can someone confirm whether these are indeed "caesura" or 
some other ornamentation in the attached example ?.


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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello eby_km,

Well they are definitely keyboard ornaments. It would be helpful if you
could say what the piece is and who is the composer and date? There are
countless non-standard ornaments in 18c - this was well before the stage of
standardization of notation. Not caesura, that much is certain.

Andrew


On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 01:24,  wrote:

> Hello all, i'm typesetting a handwritten score found on internet, it does
> have several marking similar to "caesura" and "fermata + caesura" above the
> note itself and many youtube recordings this is played with "prall"
> variants for those weird markings, can someone confirm whether these are
> indeed "caesura" or some other ornamentation in the attached example ?.
>
>
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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Conor Cook]

That works quite nicely.  Thank you!

I had been using \include satb.ly, so I had to recreate the \score
{}, but it was good practice to combine \lyrics and multiple parts to
one staff.

~Conor

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Kieren MacMillan
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:
 Hi Conor,

 In the particular score I am working on, I have only this one mark (it's 
 about 30 measures long total).
 What would an example of your suggestion look like, as I can see your 
 concern applying down the road.

 Snippet included below.

 1. In both scores, the breath mark appears in all Staff contexts (because 
 it’s in \global, which is included in every Staff).
 2. In the second score with the Mark_engraver moved to the Staff context 
 level, the ‘A’ rehearsal mark is above every Staff — likely not desired 
 behaviour.

 In general, the \global variable should contain everything that you want in 
 every Voice — like time signatures, tonalities, etc. — and engravers should 
 be \consist-ed at the appropriate level to display the grobs where they are 
 needed/desired.

 Hope this helps!
 Kieren.
 _

 \version 2.19.15

 \paper {
   ragged-right = ##f
 }

 global = {
   \key d \minor
   \tempo Lugubrioso 4=22
   \time 4/4
   s1
   \time 3/4
   s4*3
   \breathe
   \mark \default
   \time 5/8
   s8*5
   \breathe
   \time 4/4
   s1
 }

 theNotes = {
   c''1
   c''2.
   c''4. ~ 4
   c''1
 }

 \markup With Mark_engraver at the Score level (= default):
 \score {
   
 \new Staff  \global \theNotes 
 \new Staff  \global \theNotes 
   
 }

 \markup With Mark_engraver moved to the Staff level:
 \score {
   
 \new Staff  \global \theNotes 
 \new Staff  \global \theNotes 
   
   \layout {
 \context {
   \Score
   \remove Mark_engraver
 }
 \context {
   \Staff
   \consists Mark_engraver
 }
   }
 }
 ___

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 www:  http://www.kierenmacmillan.info
 email:  i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Trevor Daniels]

Conor Cook wrote Monday, February 16, 2015 5:14 PM

 I had been using \include satb.ly, so I had to recreate the \score
 {}, but it was good practice to combine \lyrics and multiple parts to
 one staff.

Perhaps you had other reasons for recreating the \score { }, but
if it was just to add a global to every staff the satb.ly built-in
template uses the Time variable for this purpose - it is included in
every staff.   Might have saved you some effort, but I've just
realised the documentation in the Learning Manual doesn't mention
this.

Trevor
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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[tisimst]

Conor Cook wrote
 Is it possible to place a caesura, contained in a rehearsal mark, over
 every staff of a system (like in a choral score, since parts will not
 be extracted)?  I know that this is not how rehearsal marks are
 supposed to work, so is there another way to achieve this?  In an
 archived thread, David Kastrup provided a \caesura variable that
 involved the glyph and a breathe, but it is not exactly what I thought
 I wanted (but if it is more in line with the way caesuras are meant to
 be displayed, then I am happy with it, even if I need to offset it to
 above the staff).

Conor,

Try this:

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\remove Mark_engraver
  }
  \context {
\Staff
\consists Mark_engraver
  }
}

This will mean that you need to put the \mark ... in each staff you want
it to appear, though.

HTH,
Abraham



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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Conor Cook]

That is beautiful, both in its coding simplicity and in the final product!

Thank you!

~Conor

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: tisimst tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com
 To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Cc:
 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:38:12 -0700 (MST)
 Subject: Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system
 Conor Cook wrote
 Is it possible to place a caesura, contained in a rehearsal mark, over
 every staff of a system (like in a choral score, since parts will not
 be extracted)?  I know that this is not how rehearsal marks are
 supposed to work, so is there another way to achieve this?  In an
 archived thread, David Kastrup provided a \caesura variable that
 involved the glyph and a breathe, but it is not exactly what I thought
 I wanted (but if it is more in line with the way caesuras are meant to
 be displayed, then I am happy with it, even if I need to offset it to
 above the staff).

 Conor,

 Try this:

 \layout {
   \context {
 \Score
 \remove Mark_engraver
   }
   \context {
 \Staff
 \consists Mark_engraver
   }
 }

 This will mean that you need to put the \mark ... in each staff you want
 it to appear, though.

 HTH,
 Abraham



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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Conor,

 That is beautiful, both in its coding simplicity and in the final product!

Unless you’re planning to have *all* of your marks (including \mark \default, 
etc.) above every staff — which is not a usual engraving convention — why not 
just put the caesura in a global variable that is layered into every staff?

Hope this helps!
Kieren.
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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[tisimst]

Kieren MacMillan wrote
 Hi Conor,
 
 That is beautiful, both in its coding simplicity and in the final
 product!
 
 Unless you’re planning to have *all* of your marks (including \mark
 \default, etc.) above every staff — which is not a usual engraving
 convention — why not just put the caesura in a global variable that is
 layered into every staff?

Conor,

I am inclined to agree with Kieren. Manually putting the marks in EVERY
staff can be tedious and error prone, depending on how many you plan to use.
The better way is to create another voice that only contains spacer rests
with the marks at the appropriate position(s), then make it simultaneous
with a voice in each staff. That way you only have to define where the marks
are once, but it is replicated perfectly. Here's a complete example:

%  SNIP

\version 2.18.2

markVoice = {
  s1*3
  \mark \default
  s1*5
  \mark \default
  s1*4
}

partI = \relative c' {
 \repeat unfold 13 { c1 }
}

partII = \relative c' {
 \repeat unfold 13 { d1 }
}

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff 
\new Staff 
  \new Voice \markVoice
  \new Voice \partI

\new Staff 
  \new Voice \markVoice
  \new Voice \partII

  
  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \remove Mark_engraver
}
\context {
  \Staff
  \consists Mark_engraver
}
  }
}

%  SNIP

HTH,
Abraham



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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Conor,

 In the particular score I am working on, I have only this one mark (it's 
 about 30 measures long total).
 What would an example of your suggestion look like, as I can see your concern 
 applying down the road.

Snippet included below.

1. In both scores, the breath mark appears in all Staff contexts (because it’s 
in \global, which is included in every Staff).
2. In the second score with the Mark_engraver moved to the Staff context level, 
the ‘A’ rehearsal mark is above every Staff — likely not desired behaviour.

In general, the \global variable should contain everything that you want in 
every Voice — like time signatures, tonalities, etc. — and engravers should be 
\consist-ed at the appropriate level to display the grobs where they are 
needed/desired.

Hope this helps!
Kieren.
_

\version 2.19.15

\paper {
  ragged-right = ##f
}

global = {
  \key d \minor
  \tempo Lugubrioso 4=22
  \time 4/4
  s1
  \time 3/4
  s4*3
  \breathe
  \mark \default
  \time 5/8
  s8*5
  \breathe
  \time 4/4
  s1
}

theNotes = {
  c''1
  c''2.
  c''4. ~ 4
  c''1
}

\markup With Mark_engraver at the Score level (= default):
\score {
  
\new Staff  \global \theNotes 
\new Staff  \global \theNotes 
  
}

\markup With Mark_engraver moved to the Staff level:
\score {
  
\new Staff  \global \theNotes 
\new Staff  \global \theNotes 
  
  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \remove Mark_engraver
}
\context {
  \Staff
  \consists Mark_engraver
}
  }
}
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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Conor Cook]

Kieren,




In the particular score I am working on, I have only this one mark (it's about 
30 measures long total).




What would an example of your suggestion look like, as I can see your concern 
applying down the road.




~Conor



—
Sent from Mailbox

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Kieren MacMillan
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Hi Conor,
 That is beautiful, both in its coding simplicity and in the final product!
 Unless you’re planning to have *all* of your marks (including \mark \default, 
 etc.) above every staff — which is not a usual engraving convention — why not 
 just put the caesura in a global variable that is layered into every staff?
 Hope this helps!
 Kieren.
 ___
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 www:  http://www.kierenmacmillan.info
 email:  i...@kierenmacmillan.info___
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Re: Caesura in Rehearsal Mark over each line of system

[Johan Vromans]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:32:30 -0500
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 In general, the \global variable should contain everything that you want
 in every Voice — like time signatures, tonalities, etc. 

Yes, but it's very unfortunate this does not work for \repeats when
generating MIDI with \unfoldRepeats:

  In scores containing multiple voices, unfolding of repeats in MIDI output
  will only occur correctly if each voice contains fully notated repeat
  indications.

-- Johan

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Re: Caesura missing?

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Nerlich peter.nerl...@googlemail.com

To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 9:51 PM
Subject: Caesura missing?



Hi there,
Eventually I found Lilipond and am simply exited about that. But now it 
seems

to lack of one thing, I could not find a Caesura
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesura). At least not in the german manual.
Of course not that important, just wanted you to now if it is really 
missing,

else I would be happy if You would tell me.
And I want to say thank You so much for this treasure to the developers!
Sincerely, Peter Nerlich


Please see 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-as-curves#breath-marks


--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Caesura missing?

[Stefaan Himpe]

 seems to lack of one thing, I could not find a Caesura

Hello, have a look on this page:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-as-curves#breath-marks

Best regards,
Stefaan.
-- 
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http://a-touch-of-music.blogspot.com
http://youtube.com/stefaanhimpe



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Re: Caesura missing?

[Peter Nerlich]

Oh, thank you! There it is!


2014-05-30 23:06 GMT+02:00 Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net:

 - Original Message - From: Peter Nerlich 
 peter.nerl...@googlemail.com
 To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 9:51 PM
 Subject: Caesura missing?


  Hi there,
 Eventually I found Lilipond and am simply exited about that. But now it
 seems
 to lack of one thing, I could not find a Caesura
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesura). At least not in the german
 manual.
 Of course not that important, just wanted you to now if it is really
 missing,
 else I would be happy if You would tell me.
 And I want to say thank You so much for this treasure to the developers!
 Sincerely, Peter Nerlich


 Please see http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/
 expressive-marks-as-curves#breath-marks

 --
 Phil Holmes




-- 
*Peter Nerlich*
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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Tim Reeves]

 Message: 3
 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 02:41:34 +0100
 From: Hans Aikema hans.aik...@aikebah.net
 To: Tim Reeves tim.ree...@tokamerica.com
 Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Subject: Re: caesura but not as a breath mark
 Message-ID: 4f10dd4e.6030...@aikebah.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 On 14-1-2012 0:54, Tim Reeves wrote:
  To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath 
  mark, since a railroad tracks is not really a breath. Tim . 
 
 Just made me wonder, given the 'centred on staff' nature: are you sure 
 you want the caesura and not the simile mark?
 
 For a simile-mark as 'double railroad tracks' you would have a \repeat 
 percent (Notation Reference: Short repeats) for a set of 16th notes
 


Actually, what I'm trying to reproduce is this:



The breath mark caesura-style, shifted down to center it, will work. I 
just thought there should/might be a better way.


Thanks,

Tim

centeredcaesura.png
Description: Binary data
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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On Jan 16, 2012, at 8:10 PM, Tim Reeves wrote:

 Message: 3
 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 02:41:34 +0100
 From: Hans Aikema hans.aik...@aikebah.net
 To: Tim Reeves tim.ree...@tokamerica.com
 Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Subject: Re: caesura but not as a breath mark
 Message-ID: 4f10dd4e.6030...@aikebah.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 On 14-1-2012 0:54, Tim Reeves wrote:
 To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath 
 mark, since a railroad tracks is not really a breath. Tim . 
 
 Just made me wonder, given the 'centred on staff' nature: are you sure 
 you want the caesura and not the simile mark?
 
 For a simile-mark as 'double railroad tracks' you would have a \repeat 
 percent (Notation Reference: Short repeats) for a set of 16th notes
 
 
 
 Actually, what I'm trying to reproduce is this:
 
 
 
 The breath mark caesura-style, shifted down to center it, will work. I 
 just thought there should/might be a better way.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Tim

As a hack, you can use scripts.caesura.straight as the stencil for a note or 
rest at that staff position.

Cheers,
MS
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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Tim Reeves]

Mike, 

Since a note or rest will add to the length of the measure which I don't 
want to do, could I do the same thing with another object? Maybe an object 
that does not have be undone later, like a clef would?

Why do I have to be such a purist? Argh.


Thanks,


Tim

m...@apollinemike.com m...@apollinemike.com wrote on 01/16/2012 
11:15:53 AM:

 From: m...@apollinemike.com m...@apollinemike.com
 To: Tim Reeves tim.ree...@tokamerica.com
 Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Date: 01/16/2012 11:15 AM
 Subject: Re: caesura but not as a breath mark
 
 On Jan 16, 2012, at 8:10 PM, Tim Reeves wrote:
 
  Message: 3
  Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 02:41:34 +0100
  From: Hans Aikema hans.aik...@aikebah.net
  To: Tim Reeves tim.ree...@tokamerica.com
  Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
  Subject: Re: caesura but not as a breath mark
  Message-ID: 4f10dd4e.6030...@aikebah.net
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
  
  On 14-1-2012 0:54, Tim Reeves wrote:
  To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath 
  mark, since a railroad tracks is not really a breath. Tim . 
  
  Just made me wonder, given the 'centred on staff' nature: are you 
sure 
  you want the caesura and not the simile mark?
  
  For a simile-mark as 'double railroad tracks' you would have a 
\repeat 
  percent (Notation Reference: Short repeats) for a set of 16th notes
  
  
  
  Actually, what I'm trying to reproduce is this:
  
  
  
  The breath mark caesura-style, shifted down to center it, will work. I 

  just thought there should/might be a better way.
  
  
  Thanks,
  
  Tim
 
 As a hack, you can use scripts.caesura.straight as the stencil for a 
note
 or rest at that staff position.
 
 Cheers,
 MS

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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On Jan 17, 2012, at 2:06 AM, Tim Reeves wrote:

 Mike, 
 
 Since a note or rest will add to the length of the measure which I don't 
 want to do, could I do the same thing with another object? Maybe an object 
 that does not have be undone later, like a clef would?
 
 Why do I have to be such a purist? Argh.
 

(almost) all object's stencils are hijack-able in a few lines of Scheme.  If 
you don't want ample space, I'd go w/ a barline, as it'll result in the least # 
of hacks that you need to get it up and running.
You can control spacing between a barline and the objects after it via the 
space-alist property of the BarLine (or any non-musical grob).  Then, you'd 
just need to override the stencil  make sure to subtract 1 from the measure 
count after the barline.

Cheers,
MS
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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Hans Aikema]

On 13-1-2012 21:39, Tim Reeves wrote:

Hi,

How can I put in railroad tracks / caesura in the middle of the staff?
The only example I can find in the documentation has it as a breath mark,
so it's at the top of the staff.
I want it vertically centered on the staff.

Tim,

To align the caesura in the middle of the staff all you need to do in 
addition to the LSR-snippet you mentioned is to override the Y-offset of 
the breath mark:


\relative c'' {
  \override BreathingSign #'text = \markup {
\musicglyph #scripts.caesura.straight
  }
  \override BreathingSign #'Y-offset = #0
  c8 e4. \breathe g8. e16 c4
}


regards,
Hans


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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Tim Reeves]

Hi,

 
 Message: 5
 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:05:21 +0100
 From: Hans Aikema hans.aik...@aikebah.net
 To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
 Subject: Re: caesura but not as a breath mark
 Message-ID: 4f10aaa1.2090...@aikebah.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 On 13-1-2012 21:39, Tim Reeves wrote:
  Hi,
 
  How can I put in railroad tracks / caesura in the middle of the 
staff?
  The only example I can find in the documentation has it as a breath 
mark,
  so it's at the top of the staff.
  I want it vertically centered on the staff.
 Tim,
 
 To align the caesura in the middle of the staff all you need to do in 
 addition to the LSR-snippet you mentioned is to override the Y-offset of 

 the breath mark:
 
 \relative c'' {
\override BreathingSign #'text = \markup {
  \musicglyph #scripts.caesura.straight
}
\override BreathingSign #'Y-offset = #0
c8 e4. \breathe g8. e16 c4
 }
 
 
 regards,
 Hans
 

So, just like the answer to the almost identical question about breath 
marks asked by someone else just a few hours ago, then? :-)

Thanks, Hans.

To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath mark, 
since a railroad tracks is not really a breath.


Tim

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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Hans Aikema]

On 14-1-2012 0:54, Tim Reeves wrote:

...
So, just like the answer to the almost identical question about breath
marks asked by someone else just a few hours ago, then? :-)

Thanks, Hans.

To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath mark,
since a railroad tracks is not really a breath.


Tim
.

I think it depends on ones point of view; one could argue that a 
breathing-mark shows a musician where a very short pause is allowed in 
the music in order to breathe whereas the caesura signals an intentional 
silent pause in the music.


regards,
Hans

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Re: caesura but not as a breath mark

[Hans Aikema]

On 14-1-2012 0:54, Tim Reeves wrote:
To be honest, I think it should be possible without using a breath 
mark, since a railroad tracks is not really a breath. Tim . 


Just made me wonder, given the 'centred on staff' nature: are you sure 
you want the caesura and not the simile mark?


For a simile-mark as 'double railroad tracks' you would have a \repeat 
percent (Notation Reference: Short repeats) for a set of 16th notes


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Re: caesura usage

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op dinsdag 1 januari 2008, schreef Paul Scott:

\version 2.11.36

caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text = 
  #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight) 

caesuraOff = \override BreathingSign #'text = 
  #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.rcomma) 

{ 
  c'4 
  \caesuraOn \breathe 
  d' 
  \caesuraOff \breathe 
  e' 
  \caesuraOn \breathe % \caesuraOff
  d' 
}

I think you should only use \caesuraOff after the next note, not directly 
after the \breathe.

caesuraOff could be changed to:

caesuraOff = \revert BreathingSign #'text

Met vriendelijke groet,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl/
You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandi


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Re: caesura usage

[Paul Scott]

Wilbert Berendsen wrote:

Op dinsdag 1 januari 2008, schreef Paul Scott:

\version 2.11.36

caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text = 
  #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight) 

caesuraOff = \override BreathingSign #'text = 
  #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.rcomma) 

{ 
  c'4 
  \caesuraOn \breathe 
  d' 
  \caesuraOff \breathe 
  e' 
  \caesuraOn \breathe % \caesuraOff
  d' 
}


I think you should only use \caesuraOff after the next note, not directly 
after the \breathe.
  

That is what I discovered and was saying.  Is that a bug?

caesuraOff could be changed to:

caesuraOff = \revert BreathingSign #'text
  

Thank you and I will do that but it doesn't change the point made above.

Thanks again,

Paul



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Re: caesura usage

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op zondag 30 december 2007, schreef Paul Scott:
 I used to be able to replace the breath mark with something like the
 following which I have corrected for the new straight caesura glyph name:

 caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text =
 #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight)

 The \breathe command would put the caesura glpyh right where I wanted it.

 This code used as:

 \caesuraOn \breathe

 doesn't seem to work in 2.11.36 (I get scripts.rcomma).

I created a file only containing:
---8--8--
caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text =
#(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight)

{ c d
\caesuraOn \breathe
e f }
---8--8--

which works well in my recent 2.11.36 (git master).

best regards and happy new year,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl/
You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandi


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Re: caesura usage

[Paul Scott]

Wilbert Berendsen wrote:

Op zondag 30 december 2007, schreef Paul Scott:
  

I used to be able to replace the breath mark with something like the
following which I have corrected for the new straight caesura glyph name:

caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text =
#(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight)

The \breathe command would put the caesura glpyh right where I wanted it.

This code used as:

\caesuraOn \breathe

doesn't seem to work in 2.11.36 (I get scripts.rcomma).



I created a file only containing:
---8--8--
caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text =
#(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight)

{ c d
\caesuraOn \breathe
e f }
---8--8--

which works well in my recent 2.11.36 (git master).
  

Thanks!  I'll try again to debug my code.

Happy New Year,

Paul



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Re: caesura usage

[Paul Scott]

cst.ly
Description: Binary data


On Dec 31, 2007, at 5:43 AM, Wilbert Berendsen wrote:



I created a file only containing:
---8--8--
caesuraOn = \override BreathingSign #'text =
#(make-musicglyph-markup scripts.caesura.straight)

{ c d
\caesuraOn \breathe
e f }
---8--8--

which works well in my recent 2.11.36 (git master).


Indeed!  The problem is when to reset \breathe

The attached code would formerly have produced a caesura followed by  
a comma followed by another caesura.  Now the last  caesura is  
cancelled before it is rendered to give a caesura followed by two  
commas.


I would consider this a bug but maybe I'm breaking some other rule.

Happy New Year,

Paul


You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandi


I just applied that quote to a website I am working on.


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Re: caesura again

[Mats Bengtsson]

Please search the mailing list archives for related discussions.
As far as I can remember, the main problem has been to find a
layout, preferably from some printed score following the same
general layout ideals that Han-Wen and Jan prefers.

  /Mats

Paul Scott wrote:

What would it cost to get a better caesura (railroad tracks)?  I will
consider sponsoring it.  Here are examples of caesuras attached.
It should be a pair of parallel lines not two distorted commas.

I sent this once but one of the attachments was rejected.

Thanks,

Paul Scott











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--
=
Mats Bengtsson
Signal Processing
Signals, Sensors and Systems
Royal Institute of Technology
SE-100 44  STOCKHOLM
Sweden
Phone: (+46) 8 790 8463 
   Fax:   (+46) 8 790 7260
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.s3.kth.se/~mabe
=



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Re: caesura again

[Maximilian Albert]

Hi Paul,

before an official solution is found maybe something like the code
below is a bit closer to what you have in mind. It is based on the
definition of \slashSeparator in ly/titling-init.ly, but the result is
still a bit ugly and not precisely what you want because the 'flat ends'
of the slashes are on the left and right, not top and bottom edges. I am
not sure if there is a command to reflect the slashes along some axis,
which would yield a better result.

But maybe it's of some use anyway. You can play around with the slope,
width and thickness settings of the slashes to fit your needs. Note that
if you change the slope you will have to adjust the width as well in
order to approximately preserve the length (I admit that it's not a nice
hack, and quite an ad hoc one, too ;)).

Cheers,
Max

%%% BEGIN %%%

\layout {
  ragged-right = ##t
}

\relative c'' {
  \override BreathingSign  #'text =
\markup {
  \translate #(cons 0 -1) {
\beam #0.8 #2.0 #0.25
\translate #(cons -0.85 0)
\beam #0.8 #2.0 #0.25
  }
}

  c1~ | c8 r r4 \breathe c d
}

%%% END %%%



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Re: caesura again

[Paul Scott]

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

Please search the mailing list archives for related discussions.
I probably started most of those discussions and now we have something 
which is certainly uglier than any of Han-Wen or Jan's standards.

As far as I can remember, the main problem has been to find a
layout, preferably from some printed score following the same
general layout ideals that Han-Wen and Jan prefers.
That's why I'm offering to sponsor it.  I'm not sure where to find an 
example that would satisfy Han-Wen and Jan.  Many of the examples I see 
are either in manuscript or modern computer rendered rental versions.  
They are just two slanted parallel lines.  The examples I attached, 
which are from the web (I don't where they came from originally), are 
far better than the two distorted commas.  I have never seen anything 
like that in printed music ever!


Thanks,

Paul



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RE: Caesura directly underneath fermata

[Fairchild]

David -

Try this:

%%%

\version 2.4.6
\layout { raggedright = ##t }
\relative c'' { 
\new Staff { | a a a a
  ^\markup { \hspace #2 \center-align  \musicglyph #scripts-ufermata
  { \hspace #0.5 \musicglyph #scripts-caesura }  }
  | a a a a }
\new Staff { | b b b b
  ^\markup { \hspace #2 \center-align  \musicglyph #scripts-ufermata
  { \hspace #0.5 \musicglyph #scripts-caesura }  }
  | b b b b }
\new Staff { | c c c c
  ^\markup { \hspace #2 \center-align  \musicglyph #scripts-ufermata
  { \hspace #0.5 \musicglyph #scripts-caesura }  }
  | c c c c }
 }

%%%

  - Bruce

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Wake
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:39 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Caesura directly underneath fermata


I'm typesetting a choral work (I didn't write it myself) for SATB and the
composer in his manuscript has placed a fermata directly above a caesura
(railroad tracks) directly over a barline _in all four parts_.

In other words, it looks like this
 
 F
 C
S =|=|=|=
   | | |
   | F |
   | C |
A =|=|=|=
   | | |
   | F |
   | C |
T =|=|=|=
   | | |
   | F |
   | C |
B =|=|=|=

(In case that's not clear | = barline, F = fermata, C = caesura, = = staff)

In the manuscript, the fermata and caesura are directly on top of barline in
the ATB parts.

I've killed myself trying to get this to work.  Does anyone have any ideas
on how to do it?  I'm using Lilypond 2.4.5.

Many thanks!

David Wake



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Re: Caesura

[Paul Scott]

Will Oram wrote:
Is there a fast way to place a caesura on top of or next to a bar to 
indicate a musical pause? I'm not talking about the Gregorian caesura 
(\caesura), which is just a dinky comma. I speak of the 'railroad 
tracks' used in current notation.

Before I try printing a caesura over a notehead and then moving it 
over manually, is there a faster way to print it -- or anything -- 
over a barline?
That was implemented with the \breathe command some time ago.  This is 
what I use to change the glyph:

caesura = {  \override BreathingSign
  #'text = #(make-musicglyph-markup scripts-caesura)
}
I haven't tried it recently.  The last time I did the glyph was a little 
different than I expected but I think it has been redone.

Paul Scott

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Re: Caesura

[Mats Bengtsson]

Will Oram wrote:
Is there a fast way to place a caesura on top of or next to a bar to 
indicate a musical pause? I'm not talking about the Gregorian caesura 
(\caesura), which is just a dinky comma. I speak of the 'railroad 
tracks' used in current notation.

Before I try printing a caesura over a notehead and then moving it over 
manually, is there a faster way to print it -- or anything -- over a 
barline?
For a caesura, see Paul's answer, for anything, use
\mark Text or \mark \markup {...}
   /Mats
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Re: caesura

[Paul Scott]

Graham Percival wrote:

On Mon, 26 May 2003 12:29:36 +0200
Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   

Here's a scan of a caesura captured in the wild.

 http://daniel.ashtonfam.org/caesura.gif

This is from some Canadian Brass music published by Hal Leonard.  The
scan contains two examples of the notation in question.
 

This is a scan of computer generated (oh no), American typesetting (oh
no).  I prefer to see a hand-engraved European edition.
   

I'm not certain if this has come up before, but you can see a different
kind of caesura in input/test/divisiones.ly
The kind of caesura that Daniel and I are more familiar with is a bigger
version of that symbol, and doubled (two slashes).  Maybe some people
started putting two of them together in order to make it easier to see
the difference between a virgula and a caesura?  There's probably some
interesting history in the evolution of that mark.  :)
I can't look at input/test/divisiones.ly at the since I am rebuilding 
Lily but Daniel's version has two slashes and is identical to the one I 
am familiar with except that the two slashes are usually of the same 
size whereas the second of the slashes in Daniel's example is shorter.  
Are we both talking about the symbol that occurs at the end of bars 22 
and 38?

Another issue I see is that apparently Caesura has another meaning of 
which I was not aware.  I'm not sure where in Lily doc's I saw it but it 
has to do with early music.

Paul Scott



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Re: caesura

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Wednesday 04 June 2003 02:38 pm, Paul Scott wrote:
 Graham Percival wrote:
 On Mon, 26 May 2003 12:29:36 +0200
 
 Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Here's a scan of a caesura captured in the wild.
 
   http://daniel.ashtonfam.org/caesura.gif

Measure 25 shows why the centering of measure rests is such a bad
idea, as I said some years ago.  When you have three parts on one
staff instead of two it is really really nasty.  It is not the
modern standard, and Dave Mendenhall, who used to do typesetting
for Hal Leonard, would never have done it that way.  HL used to publish 
the Ross book IIRC, and they published an abridged version later.  I
wish I could talk more people out of centering rests.  I thought
they were really cool until I met some real typesetters, who
explained the error of my ways, using the Ross book to do it.

This example is not entirely typeset.  There may be some transfer
symbols used, but the tenuto marks and the whole rests and probably
the stems are drawn in by hand.  Sorry, it's at least partially 
photoengraving.  It's not necessarily made in the USA either.
Could be Canadian, Korean, Mexican, Irish, Italian.

Please forbear to argue this.  If you want to center rests,
center them.  That'll show Ross.  DaveA

-- 
The biggest losers of all are the winners of an unjust war.
The wars are not over.  Just the winning part is over.
Bush lied.  Thousands died.  dra@ http://www.openguitar.com


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Re: caesura

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, 26 May 2003 12:29:36 +0200
Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Here's a scan of a caesura captured in the wild.
  
http://daniel.ashtonfam.org/caesura.gif
  
  This is from some Canadian Brass music published by Hal Leonard.  The
  scan contains two examples of the notation in question.
 
 This is a scan of computer generated (oh no), American typesetting (oh
 no).  I prefer to see a hand-engraved European edition.

I'm not certain if this has come up before, but you can see a different
kind of caesura in input/test/divisiones.ly

The kind of caesura that Daniel and I are more familiar with is a bigger
version of that symbol, and doubled (two slashes).  Maybe some people
started putting two of them together in order to make it easier to see
the difference between a virgula and a caesura?  There's probably some
interesting history in the evolution of that mark.  :)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: caesura

[Han-Wen Nienhuys]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Paul, do you have an example you could scan in or something?
 
 I gave this in my second post in this thread:
 
 It is ID113 in unicode visible here: 
 http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf

Are you sure? That looks more like the symbol used to separate
systems. Do you have a scan of the symbol in action?  It's not listed
in Kurt Stone, and Heussenstam gives a handwriting example, that is
more vertically sloped and thinner, like two penlines.

-- 

Han-Wen Nienhuys   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen 


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Re: caesura

[Mats Bengtsson]

Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Paul, do you have an example you could scan in or something?

I gave this in my second post in this thread:

It is ID113 in unicode visible here: 
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf


Are you sure? That looks more like the symbol used to separate
systems. Do you have a scan of the symbol in action?  It's not listed
in Kurt Stone, and Heussenstam gives a handwriting example, that is
more vertically sloped and thinner, like two penlines.
If you look at the end of the standards document above, the
symbol is clearly named ceasura. I'll check the typesetting
books I have at home tonight.
   /Mats



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Re: caesura

[Paul Scott]

Graham Percival wrote:

As for the caesura, I think  the proper solution is to add the
character to the font, and use it with BreathMark  (syntax: \breathe).
From what I gather, the symbol is not complicated, so it should be easy.
As long as it can intersect the top one or two lines of the staff.

Probably.  Unfortuntely, I don't have an example of it handy (most of
the time the conductor just tells us to put it in there, so I make two
angled slashed in the music in my messy handwriting :) , and I'm not
at all familiar with fonts.
Paul, do you have an example you could scan in or something?

I gave this in my second post in this thread:

It is ID113 in unicode visible here: 
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf

BTW, you do know that we have a breath mark that looks like little
tick ( ie. ' ) through the top staffline.  Would that satisfy Paul?
No, but I'm sure we'll have a good solution here soon.

I use \breathe quite often, but that's not quite what Paul is after.

Imagine this: the whole orchestra is playing fast 16th notes,
fortissimo, with an accel.  The music builds up -- and then suddenly
stops, leaving a few beats of silence before something else happens.
That's the kind of place this symbol is used for (sometimes called
railroad tracks).  It's not a breath mark that's used to aid in
phrasing a lyrical melody; it's a sudden, complete, and perhaps
unexpected stop.  I think it's used more often in musical theatre
than in symphonic music.
Probably true.  That's what I was working on when this came up.

I still haven't time to try your other suggestion but I hope to do that 
right away.

Thanks,

Paul



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Re: caesura

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:01:02 +0100
Han-Wen Nienhuys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  \property Voice.TextScript \override #'extra-offset = #'(-6.0 . -3.0)
  \time 4/4 c'\pp^\fermata^#arco ais'\mp^\fermata r2 |
  \property Voice.TextScript \revert #'extra-offset

   \once \property Voice.TextScript \override #'extra-offset
 = #'(-6.0 . -3.0)

IIRC the \once property was introduced after I wrote the piece -- I wrote
it for music theory a year ago.  But thanks for reminding me about \once.
:)
 
 As for the caesura, I think  the proper solution is to add the
 character to the font, and use it with BreathMark  (syntax: \breathe).
 From what I gather, the symbol is not complicated, so it should be easy. 

Probably.  Unfortuntely, I don't have an example of it handy (most of
the time the conductor just tells us to put it in there, so I make two
angled slashed in the music in my messy handwriting :) , and I'm not
at all familiar with fonts.

Paul, do you have an example you could scan in or something?

 BTW, you do know that we have a breath mark that looks like little
 tick ( ie. ' ) through the top staffline.  Would that satisfy Paul?

I use \breathe quite often, but that's not quite what Paul is after.

Imagine this: the whole orchestra is playing fast 16th notes,
fortissimo, with an accel.  The music builds up -- and then suddenly
stops, leaving a few beats of silence before something else happens.

That's the kind of place this symbol is used for (sometimes called
railroad tracks).  It's not a breath mark that's used to aid in
phrasing a lyrical melody; it's a sudden, complete, and perhaps
unexpected stop.  I think it's used more often in musical theatre
than in symphonic music.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: caesura

[Paul Scott]

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

If you search for Breathing sign at
http://lilypond.org/stable/input/regression/out-www/regression.html
you will find an example file showing how to change the symbol used.
At the end of the users manual, you can find a list of all the symbols
in the music font (look in the PS or PDF versions on-line. 
Unfortunately, there's a bug in the files for the stable version, so
click first on lilypond.org/development). I'm not sure if you can find
any appropriate symbol there at the moment. It's also possible to use
other LaTeX fonts by setting some more properties of the BreathingSign
graphical object. 
1. I know how to replace a symbol in markup text or the breathing sign 
as in the regression example with another named character like 
'scripts-coda'. I don't know how to use a symbol from another font.

2. This symbol needs to be in the staff. It usually cuts the top two 
lines of the staff. I don't know enough about placing markup or other 
marks anywhere I want them. This has caused me difficulty for locating 
other text needed on basic musical parts.

Any more hints?

Even though I am not complaining since this is a volunteer project I am 
surprised that no one has needed this common (to me at least) musical 
notation.

Thanks,

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

Do you mean something like
http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Breath-marks.html


All I see there is a breath mark. A caesura is two parallel diagonal 
lines (similar to repeat slashes but placed higher) indicating a 
short noticeable pause in the music. It is sometimes called a cutoff 
or railroad tracks. A breath mark only indicates a break in the 
sound not necesarily in the time.

It is ID113 in unicode visible here: 
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf

(the glossary should probably be extended to include ceasura as 
well). 
Only if it tells how to get the correct symbol.





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Re: caesura

[Graham Percival]

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 01:05:41 -0700
Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Mats Bengtsson wrote:
 2. This symbol needs to be in the staff. It usually cuts the top two 
 lines of the staff. I don't know enough about placing markup or other 
 marks anywhere I want them. This has caused me difficulty for locating
 other text needed on basic musical parts.
 
 Any more hints?
 
 Even though I am not complaining since this is a volunteer project I
 am surprised that no one has needed this common (to me at least)
 musical notation.

I wanted to use this when I was first beginning in Lilypond, but I
pretty much only knew about the stuff in the tutorial.  I tried using
^#//, but in the end I gave up and wrote it in by hand.  Now I use
breath marks and fermatas in an attempt to mimic it -- not perfect, but
it's ok.

If I wanted to use it now, I'd try using a bold, smaller-font // and use
#'extra-offset to lower it until it covers those lines in the staff.
Consult the fine tuning a piece portion of the tutorial for more details
on this.

HTH,
- Graham


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Re: caesura

[Paul Scott]

Graham Percival wrote:

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 01:05:41 -0700
Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

Mats Bengtsson wrote:
2. This symbol needs to be in the staff. It usually cuts the top two 
lines of the staff. I don't know enough about placing markup or other 
marks anywhere I want them. This has caused me difficulty for locating
other text needed on basic musical parts.

Any more hints?

Even though I am not complaining since this is a volunteer project I
am surprised that no one has needed this common (to me at least)
musical notation.
   

I wanted to use this when I was first beginning in Lilypond, but I
pretty much only knew about the stuff in the tutorial.  I tried using
^#//, but in the end I gave up and wrote it in by hand.  Now I use
breath marks and fermatas in an attempt to mimic it -- not perfect, but
it's ok.
Ok.  Maybe we can work something better out here.

If I wanted to use it now, I'd try using a bold, smaller-font // and use
#'extra-offset to lower it until it covers those lines in the staff.
I may learn something basic about markup here.  Can you give me an 
example about how to move a specific markup with #'extra-offset?  I have 
tried raise without success before.  Also if I can use // maybe I can 
use the actual symbol as defined in my previous post in this thread.

Consult the fine tuning a piece portion of the tutorial for more details
on this.
I've been there many times and have learned a lot but not how to do the 
above.

Thanks,

Paul



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Re: caesura

[Paul Scott]

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

Do you mean something like
http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Breath-marks.html 

All I see there is a breath mark.  A caesura is two parallel diagonal 
lines (similar to repeat slashes but placed higher) indicating a short 
noticeable pause in the music.  It is sometimes called a cutoff or 
railroad tracks.  A breath mark only indicates a break in the sound 
not necesarily in the time.

It is ID113 in unicode visible here: 
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf

(the glossary should probably be extended to include ceasura as well).  

Only if it tells how to get the correct symbol.

Thanks,

Paul





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