SLES7 Apache 1.3.20 Was4 plugin
Hello I systematically get a "Segmentation Fault 11" from Apache when i try to use the eapi version of mod_app_server_http.so (WebSphere Plugin). I ran with Loglevel Debug from apache and Trace mode for WAS, and it seems that Apache fail down before any conversation with WAS. Has somebody already got success with Apache 1.3.20 and WAS 4 ons SLES7 ? The only way I found is working without EAPI. TIA. Bests regards. Gerard MONTELEONE Ingenieur Systeme & Reseau * 04.95.23.68.09 / 06.87.72.70.32 S.I.TE.C zi du Vazzio 20090 AJACCIO Cedex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux CDL pack and RVA free space collection.
On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 23:39, Jim Sibley wrote: > So this seems to be release dependent and there IS AN > EXPOSURE if you have a lower release that SLES8 SP3. I > don't know what would happen with RedHat. I'll try > that after I get an RHEL3 system running. And if this is the case, the difference would be the release that you used to format the disk... I would not expect the Linux dasd driver of an upgraded SLES 8 SP3 to go out and fix the layout of your existing disks. > Bottom line still seems to be - don't run DDSR on your > CDL formatted volumes! And this is assuming the DDSR tooling looks at the same numbers that you look at and stays out when the number says 100%. On VM we don't have the equivalent of a VTOC and I recall that the RVA tool would use the CP directory to find any tracks that were not mapped by a mini disk definition. Very interesting if you have some areas not covered by dummy mini disk extents. A bit on topic: While there is no Linux version of such a tool available, I think Dougie measured that a similar effect can be achieved by filling the disk with some temporary dummy file that can be compressed very good (nulls or blanks). The same should work for SFS pools where a lot of file activity takes place. Rob
Re: Gartner on SCO
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, James Melin wrote: > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:18:39 -0600 > From: James Melin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Gartner on SCO > > http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=118545 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34123.html -- Cheers John. Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb Copyright John Summerfield. Reproduction prohibited.
Re: RHELv3.0 install probs
I didn't see anything like that during the beta testing. I would say call Red Hat, or post your question to the Taroon mailing list. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Wilson, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 6:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RHELv3.0 install probs We've just become the proud owners of RHEL v 3.0 but, we're having install probs... anaconda fails w/ the following error: bega:/home/ewilson $> cat anaconda_error.txt Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 1081, in ? intf.run(id, dispatch, configFileData) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 471, in run dispatch.gotoNext() File "/usr/lib/anaconda/dispatch.py", line 157, in gotoNext self.moveStep() File "/usr/lib/anaconda/dispatch.py", line 225, in moveStep rc = apply(func, self.bindArgs(args)) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/packages.py", line 160, in readPackages grpset = method.readComps(hdrlist) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/installmethod.py", line 64, in readComps return self.readCompsViaMethod(hdlist) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/image.py", line 42, in readCompsViaMethod return groupSetFromCompsFile(fname, hdlist) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/hdrlist.py", line 900, in groupSetFromCompsFile for pnevra in (grpset.groups["base"].packages.keys() + KeyError: base > /usr/lib/anaconda/hdrlist.py(900)groupSetFromCompsFile() -> for pnevra in (grpset.groups["base"].packages.keys() + (Pdb) It is failing before I get a choice of packages. Any one else having this issue? Cheers; E! - Eric Wilson Anheuser-Busch Companies, Inc. One Busch Place 1CC-8 St. Louis, MO
Re: Linux CDL pack and RVA free space collection.
>Well, I'm not sure if I'm coming or going on this! You and me both :) >I just formatted a volume CDL on another RVA with >SLES8 SP2 and it shows 0% USED and 50,083 tracks FREE! First off ... could somebody tell me what an RVA is? If you just formatted a cdl disk then it should only have 2 dscbs in the vtoc; a type 4 vtoc descriptor and a type 5 freespace descriptor. So the info seems fine. >The other volume I formatted was with SLES8 SP3 and it >showed 100% USED and 0 tracks FREE! Somebody has to ask ... are you sure you typed in cdl rather than ldl? Can you confirm that it is indeed cdl and there isn't a bug that produced an ldl volume? >So the MVS guy wasn't wrong after all! He was looking >at a volume I had formatted CDL with SLES8 SP2. >So this seems to be release dependent and there IS AN >EXPOSURE if you have a lower release that SLES8 SP3. I >don't know what would happen with RedHat. I'll try >that after I get an RHEL3 system running. Doesn't make any sense. If you reformat a volume your gunna reblock and refresh: ipl records, vol label record and the vtoc itself. A format doesnt create any type 1 dscbs. If there is a bug that resulted in an ldl volume ... even if you specified cdl ... then this would make sense. I am assuming that RVA (whatever it is) looks for any/all type 5 dscbs if the vtoc track is available. If it thinks the vtoc track is missing (ldl volume) then my guess is that it would declare no datasets and %100 free. >Bottom line still seems to be - don't run DDSR on your >CDL formatted volumes! -Don
Re: DHCP settings
Dave, This is way, way old, but I was wondering if you have anything that I can use? (Perhaps just for internal use, not necessarily for publishing on the web site?) Thanks, Mark -Original Message- From: Dave Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 6:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: DHCP settings Gang, there has been a number of requests for our simple Linux network setup application, and Mark Post has very graciously offered to post it on the LINUXVM.ORG web site. The code is not in a ready-to-distribute state at the moment, little to no documentation, for example. I'll put some time in this weekend to get it ready, and then send the package to Mark. Keep an eye on the LINUXVMORG web page, and you can then download it from there. Hope that this satisfies everybody. Good luck and enjoy. Dave Jones V/Soft Software, Inc. 18502 Purdy Ct. Houston, TX 77084 (281) 578-7544 (voice) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
signal shutdown
Hello Is it possible to send a signal shutdown from a REXX/CMS to a Linux guest ? I don't want to force the guest but just send to it a normaly shutdown. TIA Gerard MONTELEONE Ingenieur Systeme & Reseau * 04.95.23.68.09 / 06.87.72.70.32 S.I.TE.C zi du Vazzio 20090 AJACCIO Cedex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux CDL pack and RVA free space collection.
RVA=Ramac Virtual Array. RVA is (was) a disk subsystem engineered by StorageTek and sold by IBM roughly from 1996->2000. It uses a unique log structured file layout to present 1024 3380 or 3390 images to the hosts, while potentially not actually having enough backend disk storage to hold 1024 3390-3's worth of data. Thus the 'Virtual' name. I say 'potentially', because one feature of the RVA is that data is hardware compressed on the channel interfaces as the data is transferred into the box. If the data is compressible enough, you could easily store 1024 volumes worth of data. At a very high level, you can think of it as being similar to virtual memory in an operating system. On a 31-bit OS, you can have hundreds of address spaces that all think they have access to 2GB of memory, while in reality the hardware itself may not even have 2GB of physical memory to work with. One of the challenges of this type of architecture is communicating to the hardware when a track on a volume is not 'really' being used by the OS or an application. Because the backend disk pool is shared among all of the 1024 volumes at a track granularity, a track of residual data that once belonged to a now deleted file is just taking up space on the backend disk pool. Thus, there needs to be some way for the OS to notify the hardware that a track is really freespace and not valid data. To cut to the chase, the issue is this: there is a process that RVA users can run that will read the MVS VTOC for every online volume and for every single track not covered by a DSCB representing valid data, a command will be issued to the subsystem to return those tracks to the pool of freespace on the backend disk. Those tracks are GONE, and the data ain't coming back. If a volume is a CDL volume, or a VM volume with an OS VTOC, and there is not a dummy dataset entry in the VTOC that covers the entire area of the volume that really contains Linux or VM data, there is a great risk. If the process called Interval DDSR (which runs in an address space on MVS controlled by the user) runs against that volume, you could lose your Linux of VM data. The structure of the control statements for Interval DDSR is such that it is very easy to code them to run against every online volume by default. This is why I recommended that any VM or Linux volumes that might ever be brought online to MVS be specifically excluded from Interval DDSR processing, because no good can come from it. There is a similar process that can run against a minidisk on VM, but that is a command-only process. If a user issues the command against a Linux minidisk, they must specifically direct the process to a minidisk. Everything I have said is applicable to the IBM RVA, the STK "Iceberg" 9200, SVA(Shared Virtual Array) 9393, SVA 9500, SVA V960, SVA V2X, SVA V2X2 and SVA V2XF. It is my understanding that the CDL volume format is actually a product of the IBM provided DASD drivers. The individual partitions and their corresponding cylinder ranges are represented by Format 1 DSCB's in the VTOC. There should be no danger to your Linux partitions under normal circumstances, but I think it would be a great idea for the partitioning code that builds the CDL VTOC to cover the areas not taken by partitions with a dummy dataset. With a CDL volume online to MVS, you do run the risk that the datasets could be accidentally deleted from the CDL volume from the MVS side. This would not delete the partitions themselves, but the next time Interval DDSR ran the data would disappear because they would be seen as freespace. Scott Ledbetter StorageTek -Original Message- From: Don Mulvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Linux CDL pack and RVA free space collection. >Well, I'm not sure if I'm coming or going on this! You and me both :) >I just formatted a volume CDL on another RVA with >SLES8 SP2 and it shows 0% USED and 50,083 tracks FREE! First off ... could somebody tell me what an RVA is? If you just formatted a cdl disk then it should only have 2 dscbs in the vtoc; a type 4 vtoc descriptor and a type 5 freespace descriptor. So the info seems fine. >The other volume I formatted was with SLES8 SP3 and it >showed 100% USED and 0 tracks FREE! Somebody has to ask ... are you sure you typed in cdl rather than ldl? Can you confirm that it is indeed cdl and there isn't a bug that produced an ldl volume? >So the MVS guy wasn't wrong after all! He was looking >at a volume I had formatted CDL with SLES8 SP2. >So this seems to be release dependent and there IS AN >EXPOSURE if you have a lower release that SLES8 SP3. I >don't know what would happen with RedHat. I'll try >that after I get an RHEL3 system running. Doesn't make any sense. If you reformat a volume your gunna reblock and refresh: ipl records, vol label record and the vtoc itself. A format doesnt create any type 1 dscbs. If there is a bug tha
Re: Gartner on SCO
> People pay big bucks to hear Gartner say that SCO has no viable software business, > and has gone into the IP litigation business. When will Boies have a seat on the board? Sybil Fawlty, more like. -- Phil Payne http://www.isham-research.com +44 7785 302 803
Re: SCO Vs IBM
> Phil, that sounds familiar to me. Can you post a location for that? It's a first-hand account. You can find MUCH more by going to http://groups.google.com and searching on "demon.service". Then click on "search in this newsgroup" and enter "godfrey". You'll get nearly 8,000 hits - you may see my name in quite a few of them. > I know, (don't ask me how!), that Demon, is one of the larger UK based service > providers. It was one of the very first - almost a club that got together to buy themselves a small network and link it to the internet - the customers were and still are referred to as "subscribers" because that's literally how it started. Some benefits - SMTP mail delivery (the server ran on the subscriber's system - Demon ran the client) and fixed IP addresses. It grew very rapidly at first, but has since been blown into the weeds by just about every other provider. It's now called "Thus plc" - the change of name causing me to remark that "a company that wants to be a major player on the Internet has successfully chosen a name that makes it invisible to most search engines". -- Phil Payne http://www.isham-research.com +44 7785 302 803
Re: signal shutdown
You should be able to use the CP command SIGNAL SHUTDOWN from a class A or C user id to accomplish this.. Dave Jones Sine Nomine Associates Houston - Original Message - From: "Monteleone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: signal shutdown > Hello > > > > Is it possible to send a signal shutdown from a REXX/CMS to a Linux > guest ? > > > > I don't want to force the guest but just send to it a normaly shutdown. > > > > TIA > > > > Gerard MONTELEONE > > Ingenieur Systeme & Reseau > > * 04.95.23.68.09 / 06.87.72.70.32 > > S.I.TE.C zi du Vazzio > > 20090 AJACCIO Cedex > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: signal shutdown
If you use the bootshell program all you need to do is make the CMS user the SECUSER for the Linux system, and do a "cp send halt" command to it. http://reason.marist.edu/patches/bootshell-1.3.cc http://linuxvm.org/patches/s390/bootshell-1.3-1.diff Mark Post -Original Message- From: Monteleone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: signal shutdown Hello Is it possible to send a signal shutdown from a REXX/CMS to a Linux guest ? I don't want to force the guest but just send to it a normaly shutdown. TIA Gerard MONTELEONE Ingenieur Systeme & Reseau * 04.95.23.68.09 / 06.87.72.70.32 S.I.TE.C zi du Vazzio 20090 AJACCIO Cedex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gartner on SCO
And the SCO legal team appears to be led by Basil Fawlty. ;) > -Original Message- > From: Phil Payne [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:30 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Gartner on SCO > > > People pay big bucks to hear Gartner say that SCO has no viable software > business, and has > gone into the IP litigation business. When will Boies have a seat on the > board? > > Sybil Fawlty, more like. > > -- > Phil Payne > http://www.isham-research.com > +44 7785 302 803 __ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or delegate is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet. The Sender accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The sender accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. This disclaimer is the property of the TTC and must not be altered or circumvented in any manner.
Re: SCO Vs IBM
Not being "in the loop" on the case, I'll make a comment w/r/t "court of
law" definitions. I think I can add this w/o entanglements since I'm
discussing basic principles here.
I learned the hard way (custody issues w/ my wife's ex-in-laws who had a
penchant for child-snatching 20+ years ago) I had no choice but to learn
about how civil cases work.
In a civil case the plaintiff holds the advntage having gotten the judge's
ear FIRST... and the burden of proof usually lands the defandant(s). Even
in Family Court.
In criminal court my understanding is that the state ties a hand behind
it's back because it already *has* too great an advantage, hence the need
to require proof of guilt.
So, in a civil case, the plaintiff starts out holding the high ground.
Have I muddied the water enough?
John R. Campbell, Speaker to Machines (GNUrd) {813-356|697}-5322
Adsumo ergo raptus sum
MacOS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging
Windows.
IBM Certified: IBM AIX 4.3 System Administration, System Support
Re: SCO Vs IBM
> In a civil case the plaintiff holds the advantage having gotten the judge's > ear FIRST... and the burden of proof usually lands the defendant(s). Even > in Family Court. > > In criminal court my understanding is that the state ties a hand behind > it's back because it already *has* too great an advantage, hence the need > to require proof of guilt. > > So, in a civil case, the plaintiff starts out holding the high ground. Following Lord Wolff's reforms, the word "complainant" is now used in the UK rather than "plaintiff". In an English criminal case, the burden of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" and the prosecution has to prove guilt. The defendant does not have to prove innocence but obviously can shoot down some or all of the prosecution's case. In a civil action, it's a "balance of probabilities" and it's much more two-sided, but the complainant still has to prove a case. What surprised me was the thoroughness of the "discovery" process. It took over a year in the case I was involved in. The Queen's Bench Division of the High Court does not like surprises, and you have to reveal everything you plan to depend on in your case. The opposition gets to see it too. Then you have to define what damages you expect, and the defendants can choose to pay a sum into court. If you refuse their offer and go to trial, you face a "litigation risk". If what you are awarded is more than was paid in, the defendant pays all costs. If what you are awarded is less than was paid in, you pay the costs. In the Godfrey case the action was for GBP15,000 - about $25,000. One of Demon's tactical mistakes was paying in a derisory sum - ISTR GBP2,500? Godfrey won his case implicitly because Demon settled out of court - which meant that Demon paid the legal costs - around a quarter of a million. SCO is really a long way out on a shaky limb - betting the company doesn't begin to describe it. I don't think there's a real issue for SCO users, since their installed base is about the only asset they have apart from the disputed IP and it will be sold off by the creditors to achieve the best return. Probably to Novell. Perhaps even before the action starts. -- Phil Payne http://www.isham-research.com +44 7785 302 803
Re: SCO Vs IBM
On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 11:08, Phil Payne wrote: > I don't think there's a real issue for SCO users, ..since there are only about four of them. Oh, hush my mouth! Adam
Re: SCO Vs IBM
Adam Thornton wrote: On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 11:08, Phil Payne wrote: I don't think there's a real issue for SCO users, ..since there are only about four of them. Oh, hush my mouth! That's the problem with the Linux community. I can assure you that your numbers are a full order of magnitude off! I'm pretty sure they have 40 :-) Many of those are probably unaware that they are still SCO customers though... and some are probably being sued by SCO and wish they had never heard of them. If you want to know what SCO is really worth.. check out ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3638988871&category=4619
Re: SCO Vs IBM
>SCO is really a long way out on a shaky limb - betting the company doesn't begin to >describe it. I don't think there's a real issue for SCO users, since their installed base is about the only asset they have apart from the disputed IP and it will be sold off by the creditors to achieve the best return. Probably to Novell. Perhaps even before the action starts.< What does SCO have to lose? It is playing totally with OPM. If it wins, executive mgmt gets paid handsomely. If they lose, it's off to some other company for an even bigger slice of the shareholders pie. WIN-WIN... for executive management. Michael A. Geiger
Accessing DB2 connect from Websphere on a separate LPAR
Does anyone have any idea on how to get WebSphere on one Linux instance to talk to DB2 connect on a diff Linux instance? I've only been able to make it work when both are local. Sine the desktop can connect to that DB2 connect, what am I missing
Re: Linux CDL pack and RVA free space collection.
Don wrote: > First off ... could somebody tell me what an RVA is Well, if you have an RVA or if you are curious, read on. If you don't have an RVA or don't care, never mind ;-) It is the Storage Tech Iceberg Technology developed in the late 1980' specially for MVS environments. After the RAMAC III, IBM had a remarketing agreement with Storage Tech to rebrand the device as an IBM 9393 Ramac Virtual Array and was IBM's main dasd offering for mainframes for several years. When shark was announced, the agreement was discontinued. Its a common piece of hardware in may zSeries shops. Today, it is cheap to acquire, so many people still use it. It uses a Log Structured Array to map virtual tracks to the back end raid array hardware. This is analogous to a paging in MVS. As in MVS, a track is not allocated on the hardware until it is written to. The technology is based on several assumptions true for an MVS environment 1) The VTOC extent maps may say the data set has been allocated with so much space, but in reality, only a small park of it is used, and 2) free space really takes up space on a volume, and 3) there are a lot of repeated characters (mostly blanks) on MVS volumes. Typically, MVS volumes may be run at 50% full because of the need to expand without abending a process. In addition, they added space compression, to get the repeated characters compressed out. The net effect is that the REAL hardware space occupied for a volume can be zero (0) to a real full volume. In MVS, the volumes get up to 66% compression of the data and the packs are only 50% full. Storage Tech took this one step further. Since they are do not have to have all the space on a volume reserved on the hardware, they only back the virtual space with a fracture of the real hardware space. For example, on one of my RVA's I have 512 3390-3 volumes defined for a virtual capacity of 1.4 Terabytes. However, the real dasd on the RVA is only 219 GB! So the assumption is that there will be 6.3 "overalloction" of the pack due to compressible data and unused free space. Actually, quite brilliant when you think about it. Remember, this is late 1980's technology when disk drives were still expensive and RAID technology was new. I don't anyone uses this approach now because the disk drives are so cheap. Vendors are using RAID10 now - mirrored raid5, so there is actually twice has much disc hardware that is needed for recovery purposes. If you look at an MVS VTOC, the extent map may show that the pack is full and for conventional dasd and most vendors implementations, the space is reserved, though it may not be actually used. This then brings up question of garbage collection. There is an interface between MVS allocation and the RVA called IXFP in the IBM RVA that communicates allocations and free up of space between MVS and the RVA. There is also dynamic dasd space reclamation (DDSR) that runs periodically, interrogates the VTOC, and frees any free tracks based on the VTOC. This is the exposure that we are talking about. Depending upon what IXFP interrogates in the VTOC, there is a data loss exposure. I have seen no reports that anyone has tested this, just recommendations that you keep your Linux DASD seperate from your other OS. >Somebody has to ask ... are you sure you typed in cdl rather than ldl? Simple to check - if you vary an LDL volume on to MVS, you get an "I/O error" because you do not have a VTOC and it does not come online. If you vary a CDL volume on to MVS, the volume will vary online. Since I could read the VTOC under MVS, it was obviously a CDL volume. To add insult to injury, if you try to allocate an MVS data set to the CDL volume inadvertently, some levels of MVS abend the task and mess up the VTOC so the pack cannot be varied back online. >Doesn't make any sense. If you reformat a volume your >gunna reblock >and >refresh: ipl records, vol label record and the vtoc >itself. A format >doesnt create any type 1 dscbs. If there is a bug >that resulted in an >ldl >volume ... even if you specified cdl ... then this >would make sense. I >am >assuming that RVA (whatever it is) looks for any/all >type 5 dscbs if >the >vtoc track is available. If it thinks the vtoc track >is missing (ldl >volume) then my guess is that it would declare no >datasets and %100 >free. Yes, there is a bug! Since when do bugs make sense? I'm trying to track its extent and what releases of MVS and Linux that might have problems. However, I thought it fair to warn the other RVA users of the potential exposure. = Jim Sibley Implementor of Linux on zSeries in the beautiful Silicon Valley "Computer are useless.They can only give answers." Pablo Picasso __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/
Re: Gartner on SCO
Hello from Gregg C Levine I don't care which member of the Fawlty Towers household ends up there, they know more about life, and reality then the current collection of do-dos. Besides, I imagine everyone here remembers what Gartner said about the Y2K problem? And how the group solved their own problems? The credibility for Gartner is on sand. Flowing sand. --- Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Phil Payne > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:30 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Gartner on SCO > > > People pay big bucks to hear Gartner say that SCO has no viable software > business, and has > gone into the IP litigation business. When will Boies have a seat on the board? > > Sybil Fawlty, more like. > > -- > Phil Payne > http://www.isham-research.com > +44 7785 302 803
