Re: VMware vs. VM
This is highly dependent upon the number of application servers and the heap sizes of those application servers. Like Barton said, determine if you are swapping. If during normal processing you are not swapping or if the free command indicates that you have a large amount free (or allocated to buffers) you can adjust the amount of storage accordingly. Do this, run for a while, measure again and resize if necessary. Make sure that whoever administers Websphere tells you if they add new application servers, since they take up more memory and your reduced size may not be sufficient. Seader, Cameron wrote: Does anyone have any pointers on how much real memory and swap should be allocated to a linux guest for Websphere applications. We are running 500 mb real memory and about 1.1GB of swap. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Troth Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM Hi, Doug, ... Wow! You've gotten some great responses already. Clearly, you need to think about your workload before anything else. You don't want to say "z/VM is better" and then throw a virus-scanning e-mail service on it and watch the thing tank because of CPU load. * the INTeL (and copycat) chip doesn't virtualize itself as well as the zSeries processor, so you get what I call higher "insertion loss", more of a hit relative to native performance when running PC software in a virtual machine * z/VM scales up better than VMware (probably related to the first point) * VMware controls are GUI oriented (but they do now have some early automation tools) * z/VM is HIGHLY automatable, configurable, and customizable but is (3270 and EBCDIC) really foreign to Windows people Cameron's report will be interesting, if they can share that. And what Adam and others have said is right on. Let me also play the opportunist and mention FreeVM-L. It is a LISTSERV discussion list for talking about things like this. Originally, the "free" part of the name was to indicate the goal of having an open standard for describing virtual machines, and that's still the central point of the list. But questions like yours are also the kind of thing we want to deal with there. Subscribe at your nearest LISTSERV. -- R; -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SLES 8 and Vswitch
Marcie: I am a relative newbie. Forgive me if I am offering something that you already know :-) YaST does a good job detecting the NICs. If YaST is not detecting the vswitch as a NIC, then there is some address conflict. Have you attached the NIC to the guest? Have you done Set vswitch grant ? Last time I forgot to do the grant for the guest and spent quite a bit of time trying to figure it out. I also have the MODIFY VSWITCH VSWITCH1 GRANT ZLT2 in SYSTEM CONFIG, which alas takes effect only upon IPL? __ Ranga Nathan / CSG Systems Programmer - Specialist; Technical Services; BAX Global Inc. Irvine-California Tel: 714-442-7591 Fax: 714-442-2840 Marcy Cortes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/10/2004 05:22 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: SLES 8 and Vswitch No maintenance on SLES 8? I think you'll need some. If I recall correctly, I couldn't get guest lan to work without some service. I can't remember the details of what it was but I remember Jeremy Warren had the same problems... if that helps... Marcy Cortes "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martha McConaghy Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LINUX-390] SLES 8 and Vswitch I'm trying to get my SLES 8 system to talk to a Vswitch on VM (type QDIO), but am having no luck. The Suse system will not autodetect the device, and I can't seem to get Yast to define it correctly. Any ideas why it isn't autodetecting? (This is Suse straight off the CD, I don't know enough yet to get fancy.) What type of device should the QDIO lan be? My hipersocket guest lans are normally hsi0, I don't usually use qdio. Martha - banging my head on the Linux wall, once again -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SLES 8 and Vswitch
>> Martha - banging my head on the Linux wall, once again... "the penguins are psychotic" http://romanticmovies.about.com/od/madagascar/a/madag102204.htm?terms=ma dagascar+movie+trailer Marcy Cortes (415) 243-6343 "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SLES 8 and Vswitch
No maintenance on SLES 8? I think you'll need some. If I recall correctly, I couldn't get guest lan to work without some service. I can't remember the details of what it was but I remember Jeremy Warren had the same problems... if that helps... Marcy Cortes "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martha McConaghy Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [LINUX-390] SLES 8 and Vswitch I'm trying to get my SLES 8 system to talk to a Vswitch on VM (type QDIO), but am having no luck. The Suse system will not autodetect the device, and I can't seem to get Yast to define it correctly. Any ideas why it isn't autodetecting? (This is Suse straight off the CD, I don't know enough yet to get fancy.) What type of device should the QDIO lan be? My hipersocket guest lans are normally hsi0, I don't usually use qdio. Martha - banging my head on the Linux wall, once again -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
websphere memory - was: VMware vs. VM
First, the swap size of two times real is an old less educated wag at requirements. You are probably not swapping at all. And the swap should be vdisk in case you ever do swap (or dcss when your linux vendor supports it). If you never swap, then your storage size is enough, maybe too large. The right answer is to measure your requirements and adjust your storage sizes to fit. every application is different. >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:05:13 -0700 >From: "Seader, Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Does anyone have any pointers on how much real memory and swap >should be allocated to a linux guest for Websphere >applications. We are running 500 mb real memory and about >1.1GB of swap. >-Cameron > "If you can't measure it, I'm Just NOT interested!"(tm) // Barton Robinson - CBW Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Velocity Software, IncMailing Address: 196-D Castro Street P.O. Box 390640 Mountain View, CA 94041 Mountain View, CA 94039-0640 VM Performance Hotline: 650-964-8867 Fax: 650-964-9012 Web Page: WWW.VELOCITY-SOFTWARE.COM // -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Exactly!! VMware calls it Virtual Infrastructure. You take those 10% servers and put 5-10 of them on each of a larger, more robust, more reliable (i.e., xSeries 445 class) server running VMware ESX and put their storage on a SAN. Now with Virtual Center managing all of it, and V-Motion to move the workload around both for service and capacity management, and it's darn qool! Lee At 02:05 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: That would be interesting. Then your server farm becomes an aggregate resource pool, and you could move load around as needed, not just to accomodate maintenance. If we could do that here, I suspect we wouldn't need to buy another server for 5 years. We've got 300 + windows server, and as a result of politics and fiefdoming, few of them execpt the domino servers run more than 10% load. "Smith, Ann (ISD, IT)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To tford.com>[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on cc 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject IST.EDU> Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 02:32 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Why do you migrate back to the physical server that needed to be updated? Why not just migrate to an updated server and leave it there? I'm finding the discussion of VMware interesting since I don't know much about it. We have VMware ESX here but supported by another area. I'm curious about physical server configuration and why you move the server back. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM How long a V-Motion migration takes depends on how big the virtual server is (all the memory contents have to be moved to the new physical server, usually over a dedicated gigabit ethernet connection. I've seen a migration take only a few minutes. There's no slow down during the migration. And some of their demos have been using streaming video with either no interruption, or at most a one second pause at the moment of changing processors, then continuing... I still love VM and have for decades. But VMware is pretty spiff too. And both have their place. Lee At 12:31 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > > > > > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > > to update my > > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > > of hardware > > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > > Linux servers off > > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > > ever taking the > > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > > capacity available to > > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > > you're running > > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > > to spread the > > load.) > >How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the >migration? > > > > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > > and migrating > > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > > > Lee > > > > >-- >John McKown >Senior Systems Programmer >UICI Insurance Center >Information Technology > >This message (including any attachments) contains confidential >information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' >content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you >should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, >copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action >based on it, is strictly prohibited. > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or vis
Re: VMware vs. VM
Lee Stewart wrote: You'd probably migrate back to the old (now updated) server to balance your workload capacity. Of course if you had the capacity on the other server(s), there'd be no "need", at least right away. Lee Have you folks looked into UserMode Linux? http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ *Brandon -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
No I think what he's talking about is the ability to suspend a VMWare image and move it over to another box and resume it. Perry Ruiter and I had talked a bit about this, but it's hard. Ages ago, the VM SSI add-on could do this with some restrictions. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Dec 10, 2004, at 2:48 PM, Lee Stewart wrote: No noticeable interruption... It doesn't suspend (like the old SAVEVM/RESTVM), it migrates the live, in storage memory to the new box while the server continues to run on the old box. It keeps track of what pages have been changed as the server runs on the old box and gradually trims that set of pages down so there's a minimal number of pages that have to be transferred "all at once" at the end as control is passed to the new server. Ah. Kind of like PPRC for a memory image. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
That would be interesting. Then your server farm becomes an aggregate resource pool, and you could move load around as needed, not just to accomodate maintenance. If we could do that here, I suspect we wouldn't need to buy another server for 5 years. We've got 300 + windows server, and as a result of politics and fiefdoming, few of them execpt the domino servers run more than 10% load. "Smith, Ann (ISD, IT)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To tford.com>[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Linux on cc 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject IST.EDU> Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 02:32 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Why do you migrate back to the physical server that needed to be updated? Why not just migrate to an updated server and leave it there? I'm finding the discussion of VMware interesting since I don't know much about it. We have VMware ESX here but supported by another area. I'm curious about physical server configuration and why you move the server back. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM How long a V-Motion migration takes depends on how big the virtual server is (all the memory contents have to be moved to the new physical server, usually over a dedicated gigabit ethernet connection. I've seen a migration take only a few minutes. There's no slow down during the migration. And some of their demos have been using streaming video with either no interruption, or at most a one second pause at the moment of changing processors, then continuing... I still love VM and have for decades. But VMware is pretty spiff too. And both have their place. Lee At 12:31 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > > > > > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > > to update my > > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > > of hardware > > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > > Linux servers off > > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > > ever taking the > > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > > capacity available to > > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > > you're running > > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > > to spread the > > load.) > >How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the >migration? > > > > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > > and migrating > > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > > > Lee > > > > >-- >John McKown >Senior Systems Programmer >UICI Insurance Center >Information Technology > >This message (including any attachments) contains confidential >information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' >content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you >should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, >copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action >based on it, is strictly prohibited. > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediate
Re: VMware vs. VM
You'd probably migrate back to the old (now updated) server to balance your workload capacity. Of course if you had the capacity on the other server(s), there'd be no "need", at least right away. Lee At 01:32 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: Why do you migrate back to the physical server that needed to be updated? Why not just migrate to an updated server and leave it there? I'm finding the discussion of VMware interesting since I don't know much about it. We have VMware ESX here but supported by another area. I'm curious about physical server configuration and why you move the server back. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM How long a V-Motion migration takes depends on how big the virtual server is (all the memory contents have to be moved to the new physical server, usually over a dedicated gigabit ethernet connection. I've seen a migration take only a few minutes. There's no slow down during the migration. And some of their demos have been using streaming video with either no interruption, or at most a one second pause at the moment of changing processors, then continuing... I still love VM and have for decades. But VMware is pretty spiff too. And both have their place. Lee At 12:31 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > > > > > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > > to update my > > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > > of hardware > > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > > Linux servers off > > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > > ever taking the > > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > > capacity available to > > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > > you're running > > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > > to spread the > > load.) > >How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the >migration? > > > > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > > and migrating > > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > > > Lee > > > > >-- >John McKown >Senior Systems Programmer >UICI Insurance Center >Information Technology > >This message (including any attachments) contains confidential >information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' >content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you >should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, >copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action >based on it, is strictly prohibited. > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email and delete this communication and destroy all copies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
No noticeable interruption... It doesn't suspend (like the old SAVEVM/RESTVM), it migrates the live, in storage memory to the new box while the server continues to run on the old box. It keeps track of what pages have been changed as the server runs on the old box and gradually trims that set of pages down so there's a minimal number of pages that have to be transferred "all at once" at the end as control is passed to the new server. I've tried vanilla web serving and ftp during the moves, and I've never noticed a pause. And like I said, their demo is to move a server that's streaming video, also with no noticeable pause... Lee At 12:53 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Lee Stewart wrote: I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking the servers down. Won't there be some interruption time between the suspend-to-disk on the first set of servers, and the resume-from-disk on the second set? That is, the servers don't know they were down, but connected guests will see a pause there, won't they? Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Why do you migrate back to the physical server that needed to be updated? Why not just migrate to an updated server and leave it there? I'm finding the discussion of VMware interesting since I don't know much about it. We have VMware ESX here but supported by another area. I'm curious about physical server configuration and why you move the server back. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM How long a V-Motion migration takes depends on how big the virtual server is (all the memory contents have to be moved to the new physical server, usually over a dedicated gigabit ethernet connection. I've seen a migration take only a few minutes. There's no slow down during the migration. And some of their demos have been using streaming video with either no interruption, or at most a one second pause at the moment of changing processors, then continuing... I still love VM and have for decades. But VMware is pretty spiff too. And both have their place. Lee At 12:31 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > > > > > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > > to update my > > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > > of hardware > > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > > Linux servers off > > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > > ever taking the > > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > > capacity available to > > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > > you're running > > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > > to spread the > > load.) > >How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the >migration? > > > > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > > and migrating > > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > > > Lee > > > > >-- >John McKown >Senior Systems Programmer >UICI Insurance Center >Information Technology > >This message (including any attachments) contains confidential >information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' >content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you >should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, >copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action >based on it, is strictly prohibited. > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email and delete this communication and destroy all copies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
> As I recall you had to either run VM ware under linux on intel or under > windows XP. Which way did you go? I've heard it works much better for some > things with linux as the base hosting OS. Keep in mind there are 3 grades of VMWare: 1) Workstation (requires hosting OS of Windows or Linux) 2) VMware-GSX (requires hosting OS of Windows or Linux) 3) VMware-ESX (runs native on the bare metal) Serious server implementations should consider only GSX or ESX, and if it's important workload, ESX is the way to go (it is also AFAIK the only VMware variant that supports more than one virtual CPU in a virtual machine, currently max of 2). Overhead for networking-intensive systems is much lower on the Linux-hosted versions (and on ESX) than on the Windows-hosted versions (in my experience). VMWare also seems much more stable hosted on Linux. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
Here are the message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# pwd /usr/src/redhat/SPECS [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# ls tightvnc.spec [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# ls -lag tightvnc.spec -rw-r--r--1 root root 9332 Jul 31 2003 tightvnc.spec Roger - Original Message - From: "David Boyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:07 PM Subject: Re: vncserver/vncclient > > We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had > the > > same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM. > > rpm -bb tightvnc.spec > > tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory > > Any reason? > > Weird. The one I have works. What does 'ls -lag tightvnc.spec' say? > > -- db > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux equivalents of Unix commands?
prstat appears to be a application kind of like 'top' supplied only for Solaris. Use 'top' as a replacement, I'd guess. pstack is available from http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/pstack -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
What kind of old hardware are you running that requires you to shutdown just to add processors? However, if you have old hardware, or just need to switch workloads to a different, physical box without interruption, there is... 1. Parellel sysplex (mostly for z/OS workloads). 2. Linux has a fail over capability to another image. That image can be on the same lpar (when running under VM), a different lpar (with or without VM), different box (in the same machine room), different box (different cities/states/nations...don't quite have different planets yet) Other type of workloads can handle a few minutes of scheduled interruptions. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/10/04 01:19PM >>> For example: Over the weekend you're going to update your machine and turn on another IFL -- that requires the entire box VM, LPARs, servers to be shutdown for a POR/IML... Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have to update my 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type of hardware outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking the servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of view. All assuming you have the processor and memory capacity available to hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if you're running say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers to spread the load.) It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM and migrating it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. Lee At 11:57 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine >taking a > running active server and dynamically >moving it to > another physical processor -- >never missing a beat. > > > >What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries >hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean >up time of 99.999%. > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Gwe, 2004-12-10 at 19:53, Adam Thornton wrote: > Won't there be some interruption time between the suspend-to-disk on > the first set of servers, and the resume-from-disk on the second set? > That is, the servers don't know they were down, but connected guests > will see a pause there, won't they? That depends on the abilities of the system. I don't know about vmware but Xen is capable of live migrating a running quake server back and forth between machines so fast that the game players don't know its happening. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Gwe, 2004-12-10 at 18:16, Adam Thornton wrote: > On Dec 10, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Steve Shomaker wrote: > > > VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. > > > Well, sorta. > > I think it runs on its own embedded Linux distro. It boots what seems to be an old Red Hat derivative and that then loads up the vmware stuff. Whether it runs "on linux" or "runs linux on bare metal" is really a matter of semantics and exactly what you mean by the question. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
That's a nice capability, and for IBM to emulate that, there has to be a way to quickly migrate *hundreds* of instances off a z-series box, assuming there's another z-series system handy to take over the load. I believe on VMware you are still dealing with a dozen or two OS images per box, max. For a comparable feature on the the z, it would be nice to do hot CP/IFL and memory allocation switching via the HMC, as we can with DASD. Ray Mrohs Energy Information Administration U.S. Department of Energy -Original Message- From: Lee Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM For example: Over the weekend you're going to update your machine and turn on another IFL -- that requires the entire box VM, LPARs, servers to be shutdown for a POR/IML... Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have to update my 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type of hardware outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking the servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of view. All assuming you have the processor and memory capacity available to hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if you're running say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers to spread the load.) It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM and migrating it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. Lee At 11:57 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine >taking a > running active server and dynamically >moving it to > another physical processor -- >never missing a beat. > > > >What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries >hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean >up time of 99.999%. > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SLES 8 and Vswitch
On Dec 10, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Martha McConaghy wrote: I'm trying to get my SLES 8 system to talk to a Vswitch on VM (type QDIO), but am having no luck. The Suse system will not autodetect the device, and I can't seem to get Yast to define it correctly. Any ideas why it isn't autodetecting? (This is Suse straight off the CD, I don't know enough yet to get fancy.) What type of device should the QDIO lan be? My hipersocket guest lans are normally hsi0, I don't usually use qdio. Should be eth0, I think. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:53:16 -0600, Adam Thornton wrote: >On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Lee Stewart wrote: >> I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off >> the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is >> being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking >> the >> servers down. > >Won't there be some interruption time between the suspend-to-disk on >the first set of servers, and the resume-from-disk on the second set? >That is, the servers don't know they were down, but connected guests >will see a pause there, won't they? > If that is what he is talking about, we had that facility working 20 years ago (or better) on VM. It turned out to need be as useful as the proponents had thought, so we removed the last vestigates of it during Y2K updating. It is SO much easier to clone stuff running under VM (even if you are going to put it onto another box), that suspend to disk just isn't very useful. The clients are the problem in most cases, and it is simpler to clone ahead of time and have load balancing take care of one going away. >Adam > Lloyd Another of the Old F*rts -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
> We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had the > same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM. > rpm -bb tightvnc.spec > tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory > Any reason? Weird. The one I have works. What does 'ls -lag tightvnc.spec' say? -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
How long a V-Motion migration takes depends on how big the virtual server is (all the memory contents have to be moved to the new physical server, usually over a dedicated gigabit ethernet connection. I've seen a migration take only a few minutes. There's no slow down during the migration. And some of their demos have been using streaming video with either no interruption, or at most a one second pause at the moment of changing processors, then continuing... I still love VM and have for decades. But VMware is pretty spiff too. And both have their place. Lee At 12:31 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > to update my > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > of hardware > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > Linux servers off > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > ever taking the > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > capacity available to > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > you're running > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > to spread the > load.) How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the migration? > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > and migrating > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > Lee > -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
SLES 8 and Vswitch
I'm trying to get my SLES 8 system to talk to a Vswitch on VM (type QDIO), but am having no luck. The Suse system will not autodetect the device, and I can't seem to get Yast to define it correctly. Any ideas why it isn't autodetecting? (This is Suse straight off the CD, I don't know enough yet to get fancy.) What type of device should the QDIO lan be? My hipersocket guest lans are normally hsi0, I don't usually use qdio. Martha - banging my head on the Linux wall, once again -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Lee Stewart wrote: I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking the servers down. Won't there be some interruption time between the suspend-to-disk on the first set of servers, and the resume-from-disk on the second set? That is, the servers don't know they were down, but connected guests will see a pause there, won't they? Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Does anyone have any pointers on how much real memory and swap should be allocated to a linux guest for Websphere applications. We are running 500 mb real memory and about 1.1GB of swap. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Troth Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM Hi, Doug, ... Wow! You've gotten some great responses already. Clearly, you need to think about your workload before anything else. You don't want to say "z/VM is better" and then throw a virus-scanning e-mail service on it and watch the thing tank because of CPU load. * the INTeL (and copycat) chip doesn't virtualize itself as well as the zSeries processor, so you get what I call higher "insertion loss", more of a hit relative to native performance when running PC software in a virtual machine * z/VM scales up better than VMware (probably related to the first point) * VMware controls are GUI oriented (but they do now have some early automation tools) * z/VM is HIGHLY automatable, configurable, and customizable but is (3270 and EBCDIC) really foreign to Windows people Cameron's report will be interesting, if they can share that. And what Adam and others have said is right on. Let me also play the opportunist and mention FreeVM-L. It is a LISTSERV discussion list for talking about things like this. Originally, the "free" part of the name was to indicate the goal of having an open standard for describing virtual machines, and that's still the central point of the list. But questions like yours are also the kind of thing we want to deal with there. Subscribe at your nearest LISTSERV. -- R; -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
For example: Over the weekend you're going to update your machine and turn on another IFL -- that requires the entire box VM, LPARs, servers to be shutdown for a POR/IML... Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have to update my 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type of hardware outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or Linux servers off the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is being done, then back to the updated server -- all without ever taking the servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of view. All assuming you have the processor and memory capacity available to hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if you're running say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers to spread the load.) It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM and migrating it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. Lee At 11:57 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a > running active server and dynamically moving it to > another physical processor -- never missing a beat. > What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean up time of 99.999%. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
> VNC is only necessary if for some reason you need some kind of > desktop/window manager running on the actual Linux system. I haven't run > into that need yet. I doubt I ever will. Or if you have a limited bandwith connection between you and the remote system. VNC is MUCH friendlier to networks than straight X over SSH. X over transoceanic network links is impossible to use. VNC is just unpleasant. --db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
We run the ESX version of VMware on a 8-way x440. We have 4 w2k servers each running Lotus Domino running under VMware. We have been very happy with configuration. Mark D Pace Senior Systems Engineer Mainline Information Systems 1700 Summit Lake Drive Tallahassee, FL. 32317 Office: 850.219.5184 Fax: 888.221.9862 http://www.mainline.com This e-mail and files transmitted with it are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you received this message in error, please immediately notify sender by e-mail, and destroy the original message. Thank You. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
> -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Lee Stewart > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:19 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > > > > Now a VMware Virtual Center (with V-Motion) example: I have > to update my > 4-way xSeries 445 to an 8-way, which requires the same type > of hardware > outage. And I have multiple VMware boxes in the shop, all controlled > by Virtual Center. I can migrate the running Windows or > Linux servers off > the box I need to update, onto various other boxes while the update is > being done, then back to the updated server -- all without > ever taking the > servers down. No outage from the customer or application point of > view. All assuming you have the processor and memory > capacity available to > hold the workload on the other machines. (Keep in mind if > you're running > say 6 servers, those 6 could be moved to 6 different servers > to spread the > load.) How long does this take? Is there any slow down noticable during the migration? > > It would be analogous to taking a running Linux user under VM > and migrating > it to another zSeries box on the fly without taking the Linux user > down. VM and zSeries is good, but it can't do that -- at least yet. > > Lee > -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Well, our experience has been it depends. Depends on the number of apps, and the number of app servers per node. JVM heap size for the App Server (and dep. mgr and node agent if you are in Network Deployment mode) with 4-5 apps deployed on 2 servers with a JVM heap of 128 and 230 megs, respectively for the servers, we're running into some memory pressure at 1.2 gigs. Probably gonan go 1.3 shortly Again, your milage may vary. We eliminated one server on a test box when the application that had required a seperate server was re-tuned to play nice with other apps in the server. With the second server perm. gone, it looks like we could get away with 1 gig, for our current application load. "Seader, Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] er.com>To Sent by: Linux on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 390 Port cc <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Subject Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 01:05 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Does anyone have any pointers on how much real memory and swap should be allocated to a linux guest for Websphere applications. We are running 500 mb real memory and about 1.1GB of swap. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Troth Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:59 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM Hi, Doug, ... Wow! You've gotten some great responses already. Clearly, you need to think about your workload before anything else. You don't want to say "z/VM is better" and then throw a virus-scanning e-mail service on it and watch the thing tank because of CPU load. * the INTeL (and copycat) chip doesn't virtualize itself as well as the zSeries processor, so you get what I call higher "insertion loss", more of a hit relative to native performance when running PC software in a virtual machine * z/VM scales up better than VMware (probably related to the first point) * VMware controls are GUI oriented (but they do now have some early automation tools) * z/VM is HIGHLY automatable, configurable, and customizable but is (3270 and EBCDIC) really foreign to Windows people Cameron's report will be interesting, if they can share that. And what Adam and others have said is right on. Let me also play the opportunist and mention FreeVM-L. It is a LISTSERV discussion list for talking about things like this. Originally, the "free" part of the name was to indicate the goal of having an open standard for describing virtual machines, and that's still the central point of the list. But questions like yours are also the kind of thing we want to deal with there. Subscribe at your nearest LISTSERV. -- R; -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Domino on LINUX/VM
Max, Thanks for the reply. The IFL is a z800 (192 MIPs). Our workload is mostly email, although we have a couple of quickplace servers and an HTTP server. I would guess we have about 10k email users, but I would need migrate only a fraction to the z800 for a proof of concept. I would hope I could migrate at least several hundred without straining the IFL. - doug Max <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .it> To Sent by: Linux on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 390 Port cc <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Subject Re: Domino on LINUX/VM 12/10/2004 11:53 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Which kind of IFL you have??? (z800, z890, z900, z990)??? How many users on Domino? Are you using Domino only for Mail Systems? --- Doug Fairobent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > Is anyone running Lotus Domino on LINUX/VM on a > uni-processor? I am > planning on doing a Domino on Linux/VM pilot as a > proof of concept using my > one and only IFL. I have read that Domino may not > perform well with only > one IFL, but I can hardly justify buying another IFL > just to do a proof of > concept. Any advice regarding Domino performance > will be greatly > appreciated. Thanks. > > - > doug > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of > the original message. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access > instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the > message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > ___ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto piy divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 09:56:34AM -0800, Steve Shomaker wrote: > VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. Actually it includes various parts of the Linux Kernel, thus violating the Copyrights of us Linux Kernel Copyright holders. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IFL shops - what are you supporting with this environment
James, We have a z/900 with 4 standard engines and 16G of memory. There are 3 production z/OS systems running on VM, along with the 500+ Linux guests. The z/OS systems are very small, relatively speaking and we don't have a lot of vendor software on them, because of the cost. We also have a lot of joint projects with IBM, which defray the costs of some software and hardware. So, we are unusual in that regard. Most of the Linux systems are being used by students in their courses, i.e. web development, etc. So, they aren't heavy workers, though running a Linux guest is "heavy" enough. We do have a number of production servers as well, including our campus email system. Why no IFLs? For what we are doing, cpu doesn't seem to be the issue most of the time. Demand for memory and paging are our big "gotchas". We did add a processor when adding more memory last spring and both helped our performance greatly. Why standard cpu rather than IFL? It is what we could talk IBM into giving us at the time. I wasn't sure if the original poster was looking for specific information about using IFLs, or if he was just looking for general information about running lots of Linux guests. Martha On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:53:01 -0600 James Melin said: >Just curious, why no IFL? Do you have any z/os work on those processors? >Just wondering how you are beating the 'per engine' charge most z/os >software is billed at. Of course, it you have all z/vm & Linux that makes >no difference > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
> VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a > running active server and dynamically moving it to > another physical processor -- never missing a beat. > What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean up time of 99.999%. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Interesting. I'm supporting a client that is running 4 Lotus Domino server instances on a single 8-way x445. They're also happy, and even happier to be off Windows. They didn't like the fact that they had to reboot the Windows systems every two weeks. (Among other things.) Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark D Pace Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM We run the ESX version of VMware on a 8-way x440. We have 4 w2k servers each running Lotus Domino running under VMware. We have been very happy with configuration. http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Mark, what are they using to run Lotus Domino? Linux? Mark Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/10/2004 02:00 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: VMware vs. VM Interesting. I'm supporting a client that is running 4 Lotus Domino server instances on a single 8-way x445. They're also happy, and even happier to be off Windows. They didn't like the fact that they had to reboot the Windows systems every two weeks. (Among other things.) Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark D Pace Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM We run the ESX version of VMware on a 8-way x440. We have 4 w2k servers each running Lotus Domino running under VMware. We have been very happy with configuration. http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
SUSE SLES8, SP3. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve Gentry Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM Mark, what are they using to run Lotus Domino? Linux? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Actually, in the mainframe side, the mean time between failure (per an IBM Road show yesterday), is about 60 years. A processor fault, is handled by the hardware and you should never see it. So, VM doesn't handle it as it would never see it. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/10/04 12:57PM >>> > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a > running active server and dynamically moving it to > another physical processor -- never missing a beat. > What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean up time of 99.999%. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IFL shops - what are you supporting with this environment
Randy and Cameron, I'm sending you a copy of the presentation I have done at the last few Shares on our Linux project and how we create the clones. This is primarily for our classes that use Linux as their development platform, which makes up most of the systems we run under VM. We also have a number of production servers handling things like our campus email system, web sites, etc. Hope this helps answer your questions. If not, drop me a note. Martha On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:36:37 -0500 Randy Campbell said: >Greetings Martha > >I would very much want to hear about your environment - your standard >processor environment running Linux should be very similar to an IFL >solution. > >Thanks! >Randy > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Hmm? I suspect that I've missed something semantically in this. Isn't that what VM is constantly doing, making any and all physicall processors inside the box available to any dispatchable virtural machine? Given a dual processor box, unless I explicitly restrict which physical processors can see which virtual machines, any given guest goes to which ever physical processor isn't currently working when it the guest becomes dispatchable. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Wallace Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a > running active server and dynamically moving it to > another physical processor -- never missing a beat. > What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean up time of 99.999%. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Confidentiality Warning: This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail. Thank you. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Load balancing? -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Wallace Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM > VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a > running active server and dynamically moving it to > another physical processor -- never missing a beat. > What type of scenerio would this be useful on zSeries hardware? I thought IBM indicates it to have a mean up time of 99.999%. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Hi, Doug, ... Wow! You've gotten some great responses already. Clearly, you need to think about your workload before anything else. You don't want to say "z/VM is better" and then throw a virus-scanning e-mail service on it and watch the thing tank because of CPU load. * the INTeL (and copycat) chip doesn't virtualize itself as well as the zSeries processor, so you get what I call higher "insertion loss", more of a hit relative to native performance when running PC software in a virtual machine * z/VM scales up better than VMware (probably related to the first point) * VMware controls are GUI oriented (but they do now have some early automation tools) * z/VM is HIGHLY automatable, configurable, and customizable but is (3270 and EBCDIC) really foreign to Windows people Cameron's report will be interesting, if they can share that. And what Adam and others have said is right on. Let me also play the opportunist and mention FreeVM-L. It is a LISTSERV discussion list for talking about things like this. Originally, the "free" part of the name was to indicate the goal of having an open standard for describing virtual machines, and that's still the central point of the list. But questions like yours are also the kind of thing we want to deal with there. Subscribe at your nearest LISTSERV. -- R; -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Dec 10, 2004, at 12:17 PM, Ledbetter, Scott E wrote: In any virtualization environment, Microsoft has made it clear that you owe them a license fee for each copy of their software you are running. They have also made it clear that they are serious about stealing VMWare's market with their new Virtual Server product, and I'm guessing they will be inserting some neat hooks into Windows to help Virtual Server run better than the competition. But they're not abusing their monopoly, oh no. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
And VMware ESX -- the robust production server host -- only takes about 3-5% overhead, not the higher numbers quoted earlier. There are "hosted" versions of VMware (Workstation and GSX) which run under Windows or Linux and do have higher overhead, but they're not for a production server consolidation project. And VMware can do things that VM can't... Imagine taking a running active server and dynamically moving it to another physical processor -- never missing a beat. And while VMware can't overcommit memory in the same ways that VM can, VMware running several similar servers (Windows or Linux) will cause the servers to "share" identical pages of memory -- similar in result to VM's shared segments. But VMware -- just like Linux on a zSeries -- needs to be properly sized and positioned to be successful. VMware is a bit less forgiving when you overcommit processor, memory of other components. Lee At 10:56 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. At 09:43 AM 12/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: As I recall you had to either run VM ware under linux on intel or under windows XP. Which way did you go? I've heard it works much better for some things with linux as the base hosting OS. Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Well, I'm sure everyone on that list knows RMS' and Eben Moglen's email address. Why hasn't that been pursued? Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christoph Hellwig Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 1:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 09:56:34AM -0800, Steve Shomaker wrote: > VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. Actually it includes various parts of the Linux Kernel, thus violating the Copyrights of us Linux Kernel Copyright holders. http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
It boots using a modified version of Linux (Red Hat, I think). Then once it's initialized, it hands control over to it's own kernel. Lee At 11:16 AM 12/10/2004, you wrote: On Dec 10, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Steve Shomaker wrote: VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. Well, sorta. I think it runs on its own embedded Linux distro. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group (719) 566-0188 , Fax (309) 410-5363 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. At 09:43 AM 12/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: As I recall you had to either run VM ware under linux on intel or under windows XP. Which way did you go? I've heard it works much better for some things with linux as the base hosting OS. Dave Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED] e.net> To Sent by: Linux on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 390 Port cc <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Subject Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 08:51 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Hi, Cameron. Do you think your employer would be willing to share such "benchmark" data with the VM-Linux community? There always seems to be a lot of interest in real world examples and how well they do and don't work. TIA. DJ Dave Jones CA Tech Services z/VM and z/Linux Houston Seader, Cameron wrote: > We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. > -Cameron > > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Doug Fairobent > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: VMware vs. VM > > > I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a > server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel > programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server > consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that > compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of > ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. > > - doug > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Dec 10, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Steve Shomaker wrote: VMware ESX Server runs on bare metal. Well, sorta. I think it runs on its own embedded Linux distro. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
I haven't seen it mentioned yet that 'VMWare' comes in at least five different flavors: VMWare Workstation (Windows or Linux base OS), VMWare GSX(Windows or Linux base OS) and the 'enterprise level' VMWare ESX (which is actually Linux under the covers, and doesn't require a user installed base OS). Workstation is aimed at individual users, GSX is for small consolidations, and ESX is aimed more at the target market that would be served by z/VM. VMWare ESX is a great solution for some environments, but rumor has it that multiple heavily IO intensive applications will bury it. On the other hand, for pure web serving with little or no I/O involved, the economics are often much better than z/VM. In any virtualization environment, Microsoft has made it clear that you owe them a license fee for each copy of their software you are running. They have also made it clear that they are serious about stealing VMWare's market with their new Virtual Server product, and I'm guessing they will be inserting some neat hooks into Windows to help Virtual Server run better than the competition. They have been elusive about supporting Linux guests on their Virtual Server product. VMWare lists Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, x86 Solaris and NetWare as supported guests. I don't think there is an easy answer to your VMWare vs. z/VM question, and MS Virtual Server adds in a third possibility. You would have to benchmark your specific apps and do your own cost study to get the correct answer for your environment. Scott Ledbetter StorageTek -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Seader, Cameron Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Doug Fairobent Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: VMware vs. VM I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. - doug CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
You seem to be comparing Windows on Vmware with Linux on the 390 rather than Linux on both ? VMware certainly has some limits because unlike the 390 it is trying to emulate commodity hardware not designed for virtualisation on commodity hardware. That means they have to do some truely remarkable things to get passable performance. Paravirtualisers[1] like Xen don't have this overhead but can't run unmodified PC OS's. With a paravirtualised environment you can take a PC virtualised to over 95% of native performance. Alan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Domino on LINUX/VM
Which kind of IFL you have??? (z800, z890, z900, z990)??? How many users on Domino? Are you using Domino only for Mail Systems? --- Doug Fairobent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > Is anyone running Lotus Domino on LINUX/VM on a > uni-processor? I am > planning on doing a Domino on Linux/VM pilot as a > proof of concept using my > one and only IFL. I have read that Domino may not > perform well with only > one IFL, but I can hardly justify buying another IFL > just to do a proof of > concept. Any advice regarding Domino performance > will be greatly > appreciated. Thanks. > > - > doug > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of > the original message. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access > instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the > message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > ___ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto piy divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
CORRECTION Fw: VMware vs. VM
We were testing OpenMail, not Lotus. - Forwarded by Tom H. Shilson/US-Corporate/3M/US on 12/10/2004 10:39 AM - Tom H. Shilson/US-Corporate/3M/US wrote on 12/10/2004 10:27:59 AM: > We are also agonizing over consolidation/virtualization. VMware is > expensive $$$. If you are going to consolidate Windows systems you > still need a license for each copy of Windows. Our Windows folks > seem to favor the upcoming Windows Virtual Server. When that comes > out it may drive down the price of VMware. > > We tried running Lotus mail on a Lin-z system, but with the > extensive spam and virus checking we do, it was too CPU intensive. > > I look forward to trying WebSphere on Lin-z. Some places have made > it work well. > > tom > - - - - - - - - - - - - > Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more. >_/) Tom Shilson > ~GEDW & VM System Services > Aloha Tel: 651-733-7591 tshilson at mmm dot com >Fax: 651-736-7689 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IFL shops - what are you supporting with this environment
Greetings Martha I would very much want to hear about your environment - your standard processor environment running Linux should be very similar to an IFL solution. Thanks! Randy ~ Randy Campbell Mgr., Systems Support Administration Computing Services Kent State University (330) 672-1310 ~ Martha McConaghy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/09/2004 03:37 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: IFL shops - what are you supporting with this environment Randy, Are you interested in IFL only? We have nearly 600 Linux servers running on z/VM, but using standard processors, no IFL. Martha -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
We are also agonizing over consolidation/virtualization. VMware is expensive $$$. If you are going to consolidate Windows systems you still need a license for each copy of Windows. Our Windows folks seem to favor the upcoming Windows Virtual Server. When that comes out it may drive down the price of VMware. We tried running Lotus mail on a Lin-z system, but with the extensive spam and virus checking we do, it was too CPU intensive. I look forward to trying WebSphere on Lin-z. Some places have made it work well. tom - - - - - - - - - - - - Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more. _/) Tom Shilson ~GEDW & VM System Services Aloha Tel: 651-733-7591 tshilson at mmm dot com Fax: 651-736-7689 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux equivalents of Unix commands?
A pseudo-equivalent to prstat is top, but top lacks prstat's granularity. Pstack was ported to linux and is available in at least Debian's and RedHat's repositories (maybe others), though I don't see anything for SuSE. A Fedora srpm is here: http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/SRPM S/pstack-1.2-4.src.rpm HTH, ~ Daniel -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Melin Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Linux equivalents of Unix commands? Our new WebSphere administrator is wondering if there are Linux equivalents of prstat and pstack. Didn't find them in the distribution media that I have. Are there Linux versions of these? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
*** Reply to note of Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:06:43 -0500 (EST/CDT) *** by [EMAIL PROTECTED] On my RHAS3 the specs files get loaded on /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/ Roger Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had the >same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM. > >rpm -bb tightvnc.spec >tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory > >Any reason? > >Thanks. > >Roger >- Original Message - >From: "David Boyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:43 AM >Subject: Re: vncserver/vncclient > > >> On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 11:12:08AM -0500, Roger Lam wrote: >> > We tried to use Sine Nomine RPM and also got into problem. The message >> > indicated that it couldn't find any data from the RPM but cat the rpm, >it >> > does have data on it. >> >> That RPM is very, VERY old. The current VNC source from >> www.realvnc.com builds and runs correctly (and the tightVNC RPM >> included with most of the distributions is also OK). >> >> We will probably yank that old RPM later today, as it's not really >> useful any more. >> >> -- db >> >> -- >> For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >visit >> http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> > >-- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
Hi, we do not have rpmbuild command.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# man rpmbuild
No manual entry for rpmbuild
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# rpmbuild
bash: rpmbuild: command not found
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]#
- Original Message -
From: "Ferguson, Neale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: vncserver/vncclient
What happens if you try the rpmbuild command?
-Original Message-
We tried both:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# pwd
/usr/src/redhat/SPECS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -v
RPM version 4.0.3
Copyright (C) 1998-2000 - Red Hat, Inc.
This program may be freely redistributed under the terms of the GNU GPL
Usage: rpm {--help}
rpm {--version}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# ls
tightvnc.spec
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -bb -clean tightvnc.spec
tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]#
Use rebuild
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# ls
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm vnc-3[1].3.3r1-2.src.rpm vnc-3.3.3r2-18.6.src.rpm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# rpm -rebuild --clean tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]#
Roger
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
What happens if you try the rpmbuild command?
-Original Message-
We tried both:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# pwd
/usr/src/redhat/SPECS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -v
RPM version 4.0.3
Copyright (C) 1998-2000 - Red Hat, Inc.
This program may be freely redistributed under the terms of the GNU GPL
Usage: rpm {--help}
rpm {--version}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# ls
tightvnc.spec
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -bb -clean tightvnc.spec
tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]#
Use rebuild
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# ls
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm vnc-3[1].3.3r1-2.src.rpm vnc-3.3.3r2-18.6.src.rpm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# rpm -rebuild --clean tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]#
Roger
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
On Dec 10, 2004, at 8:35 AM, Doug Fairobent wrote: I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. Well, you need to ask a bunch of questions about the application workload. Linux on VM is wonderful for consolidating high-I/O, low-CPU tasks; print and file services are the canonical example. Linux on VM has very low overhead and you can overcommit memory quite heavily and still have a very responsive system. You also get S/390 reliability, which can be very important for some applications. And the manageability and availability of fine-grained performance tuning of VM guests is still a great deal better than VMware gives you, although VMware is making progress with that. VMware, on the other hand, has a much higher overhead (25-30%, usually), and does not allow nearly the same level of resource overcommittal. However, if you have a lot of Intel-compiled apps that you either don't have the source for or have reason to believe that they'd be difficult to migrate to S/390 (endianness assumptions in the code, stuff like that), then this would make more sense. And if you have apps that use a lot of CPU then you're probably better off with Intel simply because CPU cycles are so much cheaper there. If you have apps that depend on commercial products that are only available on Intel, then your choice has just been made (no, running Windows on Bochs on Linux/390 on VM is not practical, although it's pretty cool). It really all depends on the workload, and there is unlikely to be a single "right" solution. Feel free to contact me off-list if you want; if you have a budget for this, doing consolidation studies is something of a specialty of ours. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Linux equivalents of Unix commands?
Our new WebSphere administrator is wondering if there are Linux equivalents of prstat and pstack. Didn't find them in the distribution media that I have. Are there Linux versions of these? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
As I recall you had to either run VM ware under linux on intel or under windows XP. Which way did you go? I've heard it works much better for some things with linux as the base hosting OS. Dave Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED] e.net> To Sent by: Linux on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 390 Port cc <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Subject Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 08:51 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Hi, Cameron. Do you think your employer would be willing to share such "benchmark" data with the VM-Linux community? There always seems to be a lot of interest in real world examples and how well they do and don't work. TIA. DJ Dave Jones CA Tech Services z/VM and z/Linux Houston Seader, Cameron wrote: > We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. > -Cameron > > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Doug Fairobent > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: VMware vs. VM > > > I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a > server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel > programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server > consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that > compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of > ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. > > - doug > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Tom, My proof of concept pilot is to migrate Lotus Domino email servers from Windows to Linux/VM. After that, I would look at migrating Oracle HP-UX, and web-file-print serving (windows). I have only a couple of Lintel apps. I currently am running z/VM 4.4 on a MP 3000, but I intend to install z/VM 5.1 on a z800 LPAR with one IFL for the server consolidation pilot. Thanks. - doug Tom Shilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Sent by: Linux on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 390 Port cc <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Subject Re: VMware vs. VM 12/10/2004 09:51 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED] IST.EDU> Are you trying to consolidate Windows systems or LinTel systems? Are you currently running VM at all? tom - - - - - - - - - - - - Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more. _/) Tom Shilson ~GEDW & VM System Services Aloha Tel: 651-733-7591 tshilson at mmm dot com Fax: 651-736-7689 Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 12/10/2004 08:35:54 AM: > I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a > server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel > programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server > consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that > compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of > ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. > > - doug -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
We tried both:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# pwd
/usr/src/redhat/SPECS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -v
RPM version 4.0.3
Copyright (C) 1998-2000 - Red Hat, Inc.
This program may be freely redistributed under the terms of the GNU GPL
Usage: rpm {--help}
rpm {--version}
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# ls
tightvnc.spec
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]# rpm -bb -clean tightvnc.spec
tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] SPECS]#
Use rebuild
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# ls
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm vnc-3[1].3.3r1-2.src.rpm vnc-3.3.3r2-18.6.src.rpm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]# rpm -rebuild --clean tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm
tightvnc-1.2.9-1.src.rpm: No such file or directory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] download]#
Roger
- Original Message -
From: "Ferguson, Neale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: vncserver/vncclient
What level of RPM (in later versions there's now an rpmbuild command)? Did
you do a rpm -i (if not do rpm[build] --rebuild --clean ?
Are you in /usr/src/packages/SPECS?
-Original Message-
We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had the
same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM.
rpm -bb tightvnc.spec
tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory
Any reason?
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
--
For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Release of CICS Transaction Server for zLinux
Pure speculation on my part, but in the near term, this possible 2005 CICS for Linux offering will likely be for x86 only, along the lines of the current IBM "CICS for Windows" offering. Here's an overview: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/windows/overview.html The focus will probably be on application development, targeted for the mainfame (meaning CICS TS for z/OS or VSE/ESA), as described in one of the IBM bullet points from the above link: Application development services CICS TS for Windows V5.0 supports application programs written in COBOL, C, C++ or PL/I. This makes CICS TS for Windows V5.0 an excellent tool for the development of applications targeted to run on mainframe CICS systems. HTH. Steve. On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Mark Post wrote: > Hmm. As always with these kind of announcements, I wonder if the "CICS > offering on the Linux platform" will include S/390 and zSeries or not. > > > Mark Post > > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Steve Ware > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:18 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Release of CICS Transaction Server for zLinux > > > Here's what IBM has "officially" said so far, about "CICS for Linux": > > IBM Announcement Letter No. ZP04-0135 dated April 13, 2004. > > IBM TXSeries for Multiplatforms V5.1 improves compatibility with CICS > Transaction Server for z/OS and interoperability with WebSphere Application > Server > > Statement of General Direction > > IBM recognizes the significance and benefits of the Linux operating system > to CICS customers who have chosen TXSeries for their applications. It is > IBM's intention to release a CICS offering on the Linux platform in 2005 in > order to provide: > > o A strategic migration path for TXSeries CICS customers wishing > to maximize business value by consolidating heterogeneous distributed > transactional application workloads to a single Linux operating > environment. > > o An entry-level CICS transaction server offering that enables > cost-effective execution of new mixed-language transactional solutions that > can be readily migrated to any CICS platform to support future increases in > business demands. > > CICS for Linux will provide improved installation, configuration, and > administration but without a DCE prerequisite. > > All statements regarding IBM's plans, directions, and intent are subject to > change or withdrawal without notice. > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Rich Smrcina wrote: > > > Greg, > > > > The best that we have at this point is a statement of direction. Rumor > > is that it should hit the street sometime next year. > > > > Greg Evans wrote: > > > Is it the case that IBM will be coming out with a version of CICS that > > > will run on SUSe Linux ? > > > I have searched the web, however I have only gotten hits for CICS > > > Transaction Gateway. > > > If you know otherwise please share that information. Thanks, Greg > Evans > > > > > > -- > > > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > > > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > > > > > -- > > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
As Adam mentioned, screen is a "must know" utility in the Linux world, imho. He taught me how to use it, and I am in his debt for it. The 10-15 minutes it will take you to understand how to use screen will be paid back within the day:-) Have a good one. DJ Dave Jones CA Tech Support z/VM and z/Linux Houston Marcy Cortes wrote: Rick wrote: Why would one even want to use VNC to a Linux system? I rely on it HEAVILY for the disconnect/reconnect feature. A helpful person from Levanta suggested the "screen" package for this. Someday, I'll get around to actually trying it out! The value of a VNC server on mainframe Linux is largely proof-of-concept. Or the occasional product that seems to think it absolutely has to install that way. Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
2004-12-10 Recommended Linux on zSeries code drop to developerWorks
Please see the "What's new" page at: http://www10.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/whatsnew.shtml Change summary: > New OCOs for Red Hat: - tape_3590 for Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS v.3 (31-bit and 64-bit) kernel 2.4.21-20.0.1.EL dated 2004-12-02 Happy downloading! * end of message Mit freundlichem Gruß / Kind regards, Gerhard Hiller eServer Software Management, D4357 IBM Development Lab, Boeblingen/Germany Phone ext. +49-(0)7031 - 16 - 4388 Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
What level of RPM (in later versions there's now an rpmbuild command)? Did you do a rpm -i (if not do rpm[build] --rebuild --clean ? Are you in /usr/src/packages/SPECS? -Original Message- We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had the same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM. rpm -bb tightvnc.spec tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory Any reason? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Dynamically adding DASD...
SuSE SLES8 -- Robert P. Nix 507-284-0844 Mayo Foundation 200 First St. SW Rochester, MN 55905 "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice theory and practice are different." -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carsten Otte Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Dynamically adding DASD... Which Linux distribution do you use? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
We tried the newest rpm source from both tightvnc and realvnc. They had the same problem after we got the spec file from the source RPM. rpm -bb tightvnc.spec tightvnc.spec: No such file or directory Any reason? Thanks. Roger - Original Message - From: "David Boyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:43 AM Subject: Re: vncserver/vncclient > On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 11:12:08AM -0500, Roger Lam wrote: > > We tried to use Sine Nomine RPM and also got into problem. The message > > indicated that it couldn't find any data from the RPM but cat the rpm, it > > does have data on it. > > That RPM is very, VERY old. The current VNC source from > www.realvnc.com builds and runs correctly (and the tightVNC RPM > included with most of the distributions is also OK). > > We will probably yank that old RPM later today, as it's not really > useful any more. > > -- db > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
I will look into the sharing of the benchmarks. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Jones Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VMware vs. VM Hi, Cameron. Do you think your employer would be willing to share such "benchmark" data with the VM-Linux community? There always seems to be a lot of interest in real world examples and how well they do and don't work. TIA. DJ Dave Jones CA Tech Services z/VM and z/Linux Houston Seader, Cameron wrote: > We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps > on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to > say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 > concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know > the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does > nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than > 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. > -Cameron > > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Doug Fairobent > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: VMware vs. VM > > > I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a > server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel > programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server > consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that > compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of > ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. > > - doug > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the > sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential > and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any > reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission > in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in > its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Are you trying to consolidate Windows systems or LinTel systems? Are you currently running VM at all? tom - - - - - - - - - - - - Toto, I have a feeling we're not in the mainframe world any more. _/) Tom Shilson ~GEDW & VM System Services Aloha Tel: 651-733-7591 tshilson at mmm dot com Fax: 651-736-7689 Linux on 390 Port <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 12/10/2004 08:35:54 AM: > I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a > server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel > programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server > consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that > compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of > ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. > > - doug -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
Hi, Cameron. Do you think your employer would be willing to share such "benchmark" data with the VM-Linux community? There always seems to be a lot of interest in real world examples and how well they do and don't work. TIA. DJ Dave Jones CA Tech Services z/VM and z/Linux Houston Seader, Cameron wrote: We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Doug Fairobent Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: VMware vs. VM I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. - doug CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: LVM question
> Is there some magic now that I need to perform to make this permanent? What >should be my next step? Compare the output of lsmod both before and after the reboot. Unless you ran mk_initrd after the LVM modules were loaded it's very likely that they aren't included in your initrd and, consequently, aren't being loaded at reboot. Michael Lambert Louisiana State University -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VMware vs. VM
We have Mercury Interactive here onsite this week testing our Websphere apps on Windows and VMware and against Linux on zSeries z/VM and well needless to say VMware sucks and cannot perform well at all, infact when you load up 70 concurrent users the cpu load hits 100% on the intel server and well you know the rest, when an intel server hits 100% it is like it hits idol and does nothing. Transactions time out and move very very slow, if you go higher than 70 concurrent users well it crashes the whole thing. -Cameron -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Doug Fairobent Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 07:36 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: VMware vs. VM I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. - doug CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: vncserver/vncclient
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 11:12:08AM -0500, Roger Lam wrote: > We tried to use Sine Nomine RPM and also got into problem. The message > indicated that it couldn't find any data from the RPM but cat the rpm, it > does have data on it. That RPM is very, VERY old. The current VNC source from www.realvnc.com builds and runs correctly (and the tightVNC RPM included with most of the distributions is also OK). We will probably yank that old RPM later today, as it's not really useful any more. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Domino on LINUX/VM
Is anyone running Lotus Domino on LINUX/VM on a uni-processor? I am planning on doing a Domino on Linux/VM pilot as a proof of concept using my one and only IFL. I have read that Domino may not perform well with only one IFL, but I can hardly justify buying another IFL just to do a proof of concept. Any advice regarding Domino performance will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. - doug CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
VMware vs. VM
I am currently trying to convince the management at my company to launch a server consolidation project using Linux on VM. All of the Intel programmers (who vastly outnumber me) are touting VMware as the server consolidation solution. Does anyone know of an analysis or study that compares the merits of VM to VMware? I hope to find some sort of ammunition I can use to promote Linux on VM. Thanks. - doug CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: VIPA and hot standby
Since there are discussions about heartbeat-stonith I want to call your attention to an IBM-provided tool called snIPL available on http://www10.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/useful_add-ons_snipl.shtml. snIPL provides a heartbeat-stonith plugin to reset zLinux images running either natively in an LPAR or under VM. Best regards,Ursula Braun-Krahl IBM Germany, Linux for zSeries Dev. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
