Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I also had a brief e-mail discussion with the authors of that article, trying to make a case that having tools such as PL/X and PL8 out in the wild would be a good thing, but my arguments did not make much headway.sigh BTW, there is an effort underway now to add PL/I to the languages supported by the GCC compiler suite. It's an open source project, and they appear to have the parsing issues just about solved. More details can be found here: http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ Tony Harminc wrote: On 27/04/07, John Ticic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More info. on the GNU PL8 compliler http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd/483/gellerich.html Being GNU, does this mean that the PL8 compiler can be categorised as Open and available to the masses (what we would do with it is another matter)? No - it's IBM proprietary. I had a brief exchange with Dr. Gellerich when this article came out, since I thought that the PL8 parser and perhaps some of the other parts might form the basis for a GNU PL/I (or even PL/X) compiler. I believe he was in touch with other PL/I people about this, but I don't think it's gone anywhere. PL/I (and its cousins like PL8 and PL/X) is not easily parsed using typical UNIXy tools (it's not LR, or even LALR), so writing a parser is a big part of the battle. PL8 is a frustrating example of a company taking open source software that many people have contributed to, and then using it for internal proprietary work, without returning anything to the community. But it's allowed by the GPL; they are not distributing. And one could argue that IBM overall has returned lots to the open source community. Tony H. -- DJ V/Soft -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
It was probably WebSphere Developer for System z. http://www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/devzseries/ Probably. It's still really, really disturbing to see Eclipse doing syntax highlighting for PL/1 and COBOL, though...8-) On the other hand, the focus of the session was on attracting young developers to the platform, and the young lady doing the presentation was pretty clear that her entire background up to the point of joining IBM was as a Java developer. She made a number of interesting points about leveraging Linux as a development workstation with interfaces into the traditional Z environments. I can pull the presentation if anyone is interested. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
Well, the HILITE command in ISPF at least tries to a little part of the highlighting for syntax for many languages. Not an Eclipse, I know, but every little helps. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:51 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode It was probably WebSphere Developer for System z. http://www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/devzseries/ Probably. It's still really, really disturbing to see Eclipse doing syntax highlighting for PL/1 and COBOL, though...8-) On the other hand, the focus of the session was on attracting young developers to the platform, and the young lady doing the presentation was pretty clear that her entire background up to the point of joining IBM was as a Java developer. She made a number of interesting points about leveraging Linux as a development workstation with interfaces into the traditional Z environments. I can pull the presentation if anyone is interested. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I suspect that the young lady doing the presentation DB refers to was Kristine Harper from NEON Enterprise Software Inc. here in Houston. She is also active in the SHARE zNextGen project to attract more young folks to the zSeries platform. She learned assembly programming from her dad, who also works at Neon as a developerand she's one sharp cookie, imho. DJ - Original Message Follows - From: David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:51:21 -0400 It was probably WebSphere Developer for System z. http://www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/devzseries/ Probably. It's still really, really disturbing to see Eclipse doing syntax highlighting for PL/1 and COBOL, though...8-) On the other hand, the focus of the session was on attracting young developers to the platform, and the young lady doing the presentation was pretty clear that her entire background up to the point of joining IBM was as a Java developer. She made a number of interesting points about leveraging Linux as a development workstation with interfaces into the traditional Z environments. I can pull the presentation if anyone is interested. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I suspect that the young lady doing the presentation DB refers to was Kristine Harper from NEON Enterprise Software Inc. here in Houston. Nope. Definitely not her. Isobel something from IBM Germany. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I'm finding it interesting. Especially that the second firmware level is written in a combination of PL8(?) and GCC. The new development environment is LINUX!?! instead of VM. http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/journal/rd/511/axnix.html -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:30 PM, McKown, John wrote: I'm finding it interesting. Especially that the second firmware level is written in a combination of PL8(?) and GCC. The new development environment is LINUX!?! instead of VM. http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/journal/rd/511/axnix.html Is PL8 available? A lot of talk of toward an open standard firmware but I am not so far successful in finding a place I can actually download a compiler, or indeed see the language specs. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I believe the PL8 compilers come from the same family of internal IBM development languages that include PL/S and PL/X. Other that for a very brief time in the mid 1990s, when ISVs could license a version of PL/X, IBM has never made these compilers available outside of IBM. A couple of SHARE ago, an IBM-er gave a session on the PL/X language, which might still be found on the SHARE web site. DJ - Original Message Follows - From: Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:40:41 -0500 On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:30 PM, McKown, John wrote: I'm finding it interesting. Especially that the second firmware level is written in a combination of PL8(?) and GCC. The new development environment is LINUX!?! instead of VM. http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/journal/rd/511/axnix.html Is PL8 available? A lot of talk of toward an open standard firmware but I am not so far successful in finding a place I can actually download a compiler, or indeed see the language specs. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
It seems odd ( well not really if you consider that GCC compete with their own XLC/C++) that they wouldn't offer it as a courtesy port for Z/OS. PL/8 on the other hand would probably have to many hardware specific statements and elements to be of general use. It does offer us a glimpse of just where they might be headed. The PERL port was fairly complete, The PHP was well done, and I'm still waiting for a Python port. It would be nice to have Eclipse as an IDE. I would doubt that we see any more than this on their side. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
It would be nice to have Eclipse as an IDE. I would doubt that we see any more than this on their side. IBM was demoing a very nice Eclipse front end for z/OS development at z/Expo in Munich. Syntax-sensitive editing, dataset management, job management interfaces, the works. Was pretty neat, if you like that sort of thing. Sure beats ISPF. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I believe these are all off-shoots of PL/1, developed by IBM in the 1960's, and available to the public at that time. Bob Lee Systems Programmer, VSE Mt. San Antonio College (909)594-5611 x 4379 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
David: IBM was demoing a very nice Eclipse front end for z/OS development at z/Expo in Munich. Syntax-sensitive editing, dataset management, job management interfaces, the works.=20 Was pretty neat, if you like that sort of thing. Sure beats ISPF. It was probably WebSphere Developer for System z. http://www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/devzseries/ Jim -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
IBM Journal of RD article on z9 millicode
I'm finding it interesting. Especially that the second firmware level is written in a combination of PL8(?) and GCC. The new development environment is LINUX!?! instead of VM. http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/journal/rd/511/axnix.html John: IBM has been using GCC for some of the mainframe millicode since the Multiprise 3000 (mt 7060). BTW, GCC runs on lots of systems other than Linux and don't forget it is a cross-compiler. Jim -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
