Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:35:57 -0600 Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/2008 at 11:02 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Rohling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SUSE tends to be more 'bleeding edge' and RH tends to be more 'stable' (please - no flame wars on that - it's just my impression that RH is very focused on stability - more so than SUSE). Having seen what goes on from the inside for the last 18 months, I can confidently say that you're incorrect about that. After all, it was SUSE that invented the concept of an enterprise Linux distribution Red Hat Linux 6.2E March 2000 (product release) [E for enterprise] SLES October 2000 (product release) and quite frankly the concept of enterprise linux was invented by neither of them but by various large customers and their partners who in turn mostly invented it by looking at their equivalent Unix contracts they had evolved over the years and saying 'offer the same'. Alan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
On Thursday, 08/28/2008 at 05:48 EDT, Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Red Hat Linux 6.2E March 2000 (product release) [E for enterprise] SLES October 2000 (product release) and quite frankly the concept of enterprise linux was invented by neither of them but by various large customers and their partners who in turn mostly invented it by looking at their equivalent Unix contracts they had evolved over the years and saying 'offer the same'. The distros are more alike than they are different, as both drink from the same well. The differences are cultural and value add. And those differences are either better or worse depending on your perspective on any given day and who you are talking to. The distros are sufficiently mature that who added the mainframe to their definition of enterprise first is now irrelevant. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
To answer the original post -- I'd say anyone used to being a Linux SA under RH will make the transition to SuSE without a problem. There are differences in where things are kept - there are differences in package managers (although I've seen a few posts hinting 'yum' can be used on SuSE) - there are differences in how fast each distro makes particular things available. SUSE tends to be more 'bleeding edge' and RH tends to be more 'stable' (please - no flame wars on that - it's just my impression that RH is very focused on stability - more so than SUSE). But since the underlying guts are Linux -- I don't see why someone familiar with one distro wouldn't be able to pick up another fairly quickly. As far as the tangents on YaST -- if all you know is the GUI and don't know the underlying commands - then you'll probably get hung up on any switch in distros.. The most flexible SA's will know what's happening underneath the covers and be able to transition to whatever front end is put in place. IMHO. Scott Rohling On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 6:32 PM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Hinson wrote: John Summerfield wrote: Mark Post wrote: like YaST, and wish Red Hat had a similar one place to go to for administration functions. I've been arguing that one for years, before I'd even encountered YAST. Brad? I reckon that some of the RH admin tools are there just so RH can mark checkboxes, Got that. (treading carefully as to not spark YaST a holy war..) Red Hat evaluated YaST long ago when it was proprietary, but by the time it was open sourced, we had written Anaconda and decided to fully focus on it. Since then, we've considered some all-in-one tools like system-config-control: http://www.indianoss.org/modules/wfdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=10 which is a front-end to the system-config-* GUIs, but this hasn't made it to RHEL. I haven't used YaST much recently, but it seems like a good tool. But we don't want to just add a YaST clone to RHEL (YaYaST?) :) Instead, we're focusing on our current system-config tools, like system-config-network for example, which got a huge z/Linux update for RHEL 5.2. It's not YAST that's important, it's the idea. Yast is much more than an installer, and it's specially nice that if one tries to configure (say) a web server and the needed software's not installed, it offers to install it. Mandrake 7 or so had a similar idea, there was a KDE folder-like object containing the configuration tools gnome-control-center, control-centre implement the same idea for GNOME and KDE respectively, Apple's System Preferences, Windows' Control Panel all provide a centralised set of configuration tools. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.htmlhttp://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
On 8/27/2008 at 11:02 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Rohling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SUSE tends to be more 'bleeding edge' and RH tends to be more 'stable' (please - no flame wars on that - it's just my impression that RH is very focused on stability - more so than SUSE). Having seen what goes on from the inside for the last 18 months, I can confidently say that you're incorrect about that. After all, it was SUSE that invented the concept of an enterprise Linux distribution. Novell/SUSE isn't so crazy as to commit to supporting things for seven years, and then not be extremely concerned about product stability. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
I have to say I'm very impressed that SuSE can backport so many of those new features that Linux dev is pumping out into the service stream without requiring us to get to new versions, releases. We have to go through so many hours of certifications and checkouts and other vendor concurrence to get new releases in that we're just now getting to SLES 10 on the eve of 11, +2 years past GA. But getting to SLES9 SP4 has not been traumatic at all - with zero impact to users.And the very long support life will certainly help us - the large enterprise customers who have hundreds to upgrade.. Marcy This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:36 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Differece in RED Hat and Suse On 8/27/2008 at 11:02 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Scott Rohling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SUSE tends to be more 'bleeding edge' and RH tends to be more 'stable' (please - no flame wars on that - it's just my impression that RH is very focused on stability - more so than SUSE). Having seen what goes on from the inside for the last 18 months, I can confidently say that you're incorrect about that. After all, it was SUSE that invented the concept of an enterprise Linux distribution. Novell/SUSE isn't so crazy as to commit to supporting things for seven years, and then not be extremely concerned about product stability. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
Mark Post wrote: like YaST, and wish Red Hat had a similar one place to go to for administration functions. I've been arguing that one for years, before I'd even encountered YAST. Brad? I reckon that some of the RH admin tools are there just so RH can mark checkboxes, Got that. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
John Summerfield wrote: Mark Post wrote: like YaST, and wish Red Hat had a similar one place to go to for administration functions. I've been arguing that one for years, before I'd even encountered YAST. Brad? I reckon that some of the RH admin tools are there just so RH can mark checkboxes, Got that. (treading carefully as to not spark YaST a holy war..) Red Hat evaluated YaST long ago when it was proprietary, but by the time it was open sourced, we had written Anaconda and decided to fully focus on it. Since then, we've considered some all-in-one tools like system-config-control: http://www.indianoss.org/modules/wfdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=10 which is a front-end to the system-config-* GUIs, but this hasn't made it to RHEL. I haven't used YaST much recently, but it seems like a good tool. But we don't want to just add a YaST clone to RHEL (YaYaST?) :) Instead, we're focusing on our current system-config tools, like system-config-network for example, which got a huge z/Linux update for RHEL 5.2. -Brad -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Brad Hinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. Support Engineer Lead, System z Red Hat, Inc. (919) 754-4198 www.redhat.com/z -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
Brad Hinson wrote: John Summerfield wrote: Mark Post wrote: like YaST, and wish Red Hat had a similar one place to go to for administration functions. I've been arguing that one for years, before I'd even encountered YAST. Brad? I reckon that some of the RH admin tools are there just so RH can mark checkboxes, Got that. (treading carefully as to not spark YaST a holy war..) Red Hat evaluated YaST long ago when it was proprietary, but by the time it was open sourced, we had written Anaconda and decided to fully focus on it. Since then, we've considered some all-in-one tools like system-config-control: http://www.indianoss.org/modules/wfdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=10 which is a front-end to the system-config-* GUIs, but this hasn't made it to RHEL. I haven't used YaST much recently, but it seems like a good tool. But we don't want to just add a YaST clone to RHEL (YaYaST?) :) Instead, we're focusing on our current system-config tools, like system-config-network for example, which got a huge z/Linux update for RHEL 5.2. It's not YAST that's important, it's the idea. Yast is much more than an installer, and it's specially nice that if one tries to configure (say) a web server and the needed software's not installed, it offers to install it. Mandrake 7 or so had a similar idea, there was a KDE folder-like object containing the configuration tools gnome-control-center, control-centre implement the same idea for GNOME and KDE respectively, Apple's System Preferences, Windows' Control Panel all provide a centralised set of configuration tools. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
Philip Hitti wrote: Please advice what the difference in Red Hat and Suse (Enterprize Zlinux ) working enviroment. Can Red Hat administrator can work with Suse Z/linux (mainframe) Regards Philip The administration tools are different. System conventions differ in important ways. Best, you get evaluation licences for each and do your own evaluation. I understand proof of concept is a valuable term, but I think you can get the downloads and any keys needed directly from the websites. I would expect some retraining will be necessary, I have found some incompatibilities between the way the alternatives work. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
On 8/24/2008 at 8:37 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Philip Hitti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please advice what the difference in Red Hat and Suse (Enterprize Zlinux ) working enviroment. Can Red Hat administrator can work with Suse Z/linux (mainframe) Regards While I was at EDS, we supported both Red Hat Enterprise Linux systems and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server systems on Intel/AMD. The team was far more familiar with RHEL than SLES. We managed quite well. I think any sysadmins will have far more difficulty adapting to the differences between midrange and mainframe Linux, and the use of z/VM, than between distributions. And, while there is some adjustment for that, I don't think it's extreme. I've even had some people comment to me that they like YaST, and wish Red Hat had a similar one place to go to for administration functions. It basically boils down to whether you have system administrators that are willing and eager to learn new things or not. My team was, and just went with the flow. Others aren't, and prefer to swim upstream and possibly drown. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse
- Original Message - From: Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Differece in RED Hat and Suse Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:08:57 -0600 It basically boils down to whether you have system administrators that are willing and eager to learn new things or not. My team was, and just went with the flow. Others aren't, and prefer to swim upstream and possibly drown. Or be eaten by bears:-) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
