Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
Juhana Sadeharju hat gesagt: // Juhana Sadeharju wrote: I tried to contribute my developments to Snd, but heard nothing back from its author. Not a thanks, nothing. If you're not able to suggest and develop features to the editor, it is not that good for the _user_. I am not involved in SND development, but reading Dave Phillips' SND/CoolEdit articles on O'Reilly Net, I get the impression, that SND is moving in a more user friendly direction. If the editors would be placed on the shelf because they look good, then I would have no complaints; however, editors are really meant as tools for artists/users. I don't get that: Are you saying, that SND looks good? It's a joke, isn't it ;) Ciao, -- ____ Frank Barknecht __ __ trip\ \ / /wire __ / __// __ /__/ __// // __ \ \/ / __ \\ ___\ / / / / / / / // // /\ \\ ___\\ \ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_//_// / \ \\_\\_\ /_/\_\
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
On Tuesday 23 Oct 2001 8:18 am, Frank Barknecht wrote: Juhana Sadeharju hat gesagt: // Juhana Sadeharju wrote: I tried to contribute my developments to Snd, but heard nothing back from its author. Not a thanks, nothing. If you're not able to suggest and develop features to the editor, it is not that good for the _user_. I am not involved in SND development, but reading Dave Phillips' SND/CoolEdit articles on O'Reilly Net, I get the impression, that SND is moving in a more user friendly direction. I think that must have been an oversight, Juhana: I contributed a really, really dirty hack to do (very limited) esd compatibility, and got more thanks than I deserve. Maybe some email got lost in a delete-fest. I do that from time to time 8-) Nick/
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
I don't get that: Are you saying, that SND looks good? It's a joke, isn't it ;) It does look good ; ) As an editor I equate it with SoundEdit for the Mac. However I've never found it to be comprehensive or flexible enough to satisfy projects that requiring deeper editing. EG: broad sample and bit-rate conversion with noise shaping and dithering, filter preview, infinite undos, high bit-rate non-destructive editing, spectral analysis, midi time-code import, extensive right click menus and a comprehensive multitrack studio with panning and amplitude envelopes and broad mixdown capability. Cool-Edit Professional for windows, this is a fine editor - a good benchmark for developments under linux. So far GSMP looks like a good contender..though I've only spent a day with it so far de| Interactive Information Institute R.M.I.T Melbourne Australia
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
I tried to contribute my developments to Snd, but heard nothing back from its author. This is a lie -- I never received anything from you except a copy of some complaints you sent to SoundForge.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
delire wrote: [re: Snd] It does look good ; ) As an editor I equate it with SoundEdit for the Mac. However I've never found it to be comprehensive or flexible enough to satisfy projects that requiring deeper editing. EG: broad sample and bit-rate conversion with noise shaping and dithering, filter preview, infinite undos, high bit-rate non-destructive editing, spectral analysis, midi time-code import, extensive right click menus and a comprehensive multitrack studio with panning and amplitude envelopes and broad mixdown capability. I guess you haven't seen it lately. Certainly the undo can be as deep as you prefer and spectral analysis features have been there for a while. Editing is non-destructive, even at 32 bits (unless I'm not understanding you correctly ?). Right-click popup menus are now available for whole file and selected area. Panning and amplitude enveloping is also available (always has been, I think). O'Reilly Network recently published my status report on my work with Bill Schottstaedt to externalize more of Snd's possibilities. We've added dozens of GUI components for effects (Snd and LADSPA), cursor control, popup menus, and so forth. If you're interested in the O'Reilly article you can check it out here: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/05/snd_partone.html http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/05/snd_parttwo.html MIDI support is on Bill's TODO list. IMO, the issue of multitrack recording seems better left to dedicated multitrack recorders (Ardour, ecasound). Snd is an editor, that's what it aims to do and that's all it does. Cool-Edit Professional for windows, this is a fine editor - a good benchmark for developments under linux. So far GSMP looks like a good contender..though I've only spent a day with it so far I've been spending more time with other Linux audio editors, including GSMP, Audacity, DAP, and others. I'm still inclined to keep working to expose more of Snd's power rather than contribute to another project either stalled or coming in at version 0.0.1a. Just my preference, of course... Best regards, == Dave Phillips The Book Of Linux Music Sound at http://www.nostarch.com/lms.htm The Linux Soundapps Site at http://sound.condorow.net Currently listening to: O presul vere (Hildegard von Bingen)
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
MIDI support is on Bill's TODO list. IMO, the issue of multitrack recording seems better left to dedicated multitrack recorders (Ardour, ecasound). Snd is an editor, that's what it aims to do and that's all it does. [ ... ] I've been spending more time with other Linux audio editors, including GSMP, Audacity, DAP, and others. I'm still inclined to keep working to expose more of Snd's power rather than contribute to another project either stalled or coming in at version 0.0.1a. Just my preference, of course... Yay! for sanity. Most people have no idea what Snd is capable of. So to fix it, they sit down and write another editor. Dave is encouraging/helping Bill to do a much more sensible thing: exposing the things Snd can do so that you're less likely to run off and do this. I claim an exemption for myself, having spent quite a bit of time deep inside Snd as I attempted to use it as the editor for Ardour. As Dave notes, and others would do well to heed, editing an audio file is one thing, multichannel work and/or audio sequencing is something else. --p
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
just trying to install GSMP on a suse 7.1 box at another studio and ./configure produces the error: cannot find STL file sstream i've never come across this before..any solutions? has all the same gtkmm / alsa / and libsigc++ libs etc as the debian box it compiled successfully on.. de|
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
From: Bill Schottstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] I tried to contribute my developments to Snd, but heard nothing back from its author. This is a lie -- I never received anything from you except a copy of some complaints you sent to SoundForge. I have not sent any complaints to SoundForge. The two mails I mailed both to you and to David described my observations on what features an editor needs for being usable (for editing audio files I prefer to edit) --- with my wish that those features would find their way to Snd before I have a change to move to Snd. Also, pointing out problems and giving a solution is not a complaint. AND, I did _not_ get any reply from you. Does the same complaints apply to Snd too? Lets get the ball rolling: here are a couple of features needed for succesful basic editing (no need to reread my mails!): -Software volume (up to +64 dB, say); this feature is needed for listening cut points between quiet fades, but also in noise reduction software where one needs to find the background- noise-only areas (i.e., the noise floor) [ as discussed here, Wavelab implements this with a plug-in at output path; good idea ] -Play feature where the region between the mouse pointer and the nearest edge of the selection is played; this makes it possible to play the ends of the selection, and check if anything important was accidentally left outside the selection [such a feature is in XWave2 (which is my version of XWave)] -Recording dropouts marked as red colored regions to waveform display so that one can see both if dropouts occured and if a dropout landed on the important part of the take; a close encounter with Alsa needed SoundForge misses both two first features which makes it impossible (IMHO) to make accurate edits. But I repeat my question: how people do it without those features? I'm puzzled. (Actually, a friend mastering CDs professionally turned volumes high up when listening cut points near fades; occasionally he forgot to turn the volume down, eek --- doesn't make good to speakers, nor ears.) Bill, what is your opinion on people who don't contribute code but only feature ideas and design? I just want to make sure I don't waste time here. Best regards, Juhana
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
Emiliano Grilli wrote: I read part one of your tutorial and found it *very* interesting. Thank you also for your site, which is a cornerstone in my bookmarks. Unfortunately, I can't find the part two of the snd tutorial, and the link you provided in this email seems to be broken. Please tell me the correct URL of the article, if you have time... My bad, sorry. Here's the URL for Part 2 of my article: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/18/snd_parttwo.html Best regards, == Dave Phillips The Book Of Linux Music Sound at http://www.nostarch.com/lms.htm The Linux Soundapps Site at http://sound.condorow.net Currently listening to: Vos flores rosarum (Hildegard von Bingen)
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
Hi. On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 23:18:49 +1000 delire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just trying to install GSMP on a suse 7.1 box at another studio and ./configure produces the error: cannot find STL file sstream i've never come across this before..any solutions? has all the same gtkmm / alsa / and libsigc++ libs etc as the debian box it compiled successfully on.. This is a check if the STL (Standard Template Library) of C++ is up to date. It seems that it is at a wrong location on this SuSE system (or not all c++ development packages are installed ??) (Since I use ROCKLinux (www.rocklinux.org) I expected such compile errors and I like to be cc'ed in private, too ...) de| k33p h4ck1n6 René -- René Rebe (Registered Linux user: #127875) eMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.rene.rebe.myokay.net/ Anyone sending unwanted advertising e-mail to this address will be charged $25 for network traffic and computing time. By extracting my address from this message or its header, you agree to these terms.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
Hi. On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:01:20 -0700 Bill Schottstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO, the issue of multitrack recording seems better left to dedicated multitrack recorders (Ardour, ecasound). I agree completely -- I haven't had time yet to try out ecasound, but Fernando showed me Ardour and it is beautiful. I'm very tempted to remove the Record option from Snd! As a bit of boring history, that dialog dates back to the SGI days, and was ported to Linux at a time when Soundblaster cards were about as good as you could get; I was trying at the time to fill an obvious need. Some short points about why I developed another Audio Editor (and to end the discussion why another one). 1. I started to play with such stuff in the i386 times under DOS 2. When I started to use Linux (3? years ago) there was no audio editor solution 3. All the other applicatoins that came up during this time had a few probelms: a) not powerfull enough b) not useable The exceptions are at least Ardour and snd. Ardour never compiled on my system and targets another area (seems to be everything-in-one-place(tm) hard-disk- recorder emulation). SND was one of the not-powerfull/not-useable tools some years ago and I took a look onit a few month ago - and I gave up compiling it. gcc -c -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -g -O2 -I/usr/include -I/usr/X11R6/include clm.c clm.c:40: gsl/gsl_complex_math.h: No such file or directory In file included from clm.c:5955: /usr/include/gsl/gsl_sf_bessel.h:8: gsl_mode.h: No such file or directory /usr/include/gsl/gsl_sf_bessel.h:9: gsl_precision.h: No such file or directory /usr/include/gsl/gsl_sf_bessel.h:10: gsl_sf_result.h: No such file or directory make: *** [clm.o] Error 1 (Yes I have a development system (and my whole distribution compiles on this system!) - and the only programs I have compile prolems with, were Ardour and SND ... ?!) We would have contributed to a project - if there would have been one (not C hacked) one year ago. GSMP would have been released last autumn - if the book C++ TPL from Bjarne Stroustrup hadn't sliped through my hands ... IMO this is the most interesting point on GSMP. Is is fully obejct-oriented, features a very cool plugin and activator system, many GUI componets are generated dynamically ... It is not just another wave-editor, and we WILL continue developing it. (BTW: We have already produced a CD with it ;-) k33p h4ck1n6 René -- René Rebe (Registered Linux user: #127875) eMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.rene.rebe.myokay.net/ Anyone sending unwanted advertising e-mail to this address will be charged $25 for network traffic and computing time. By extracting my address from this message or its header, you agree to these terms.
RE: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
-Original Message- From: delire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] just trying to install GSMP on a suse 7.1 box at another studio and ./configure produces the error: cannot find STL file sstream i've never come across this before..any solutions? has all the same gtkmm / alsa / and libsigc++ libs etc as the debian box it compiled successfully on.. on a debian unstable: jojda:~locate sstream /usr/include/g++-3/sstream jojda:~dpkg -S sstream libstdc++2.10-dev: /usr/include/g++-3/sstream jojda:~ erik
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
Rene Rebe wrote: On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:47:34 -0600 D. Stimits [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If it is a matter of location, use locate g++-3/sstream to find it It shouldn't be a matter of location. We use: configure.in: AC_CHECK_HEADER(sstream,,AC_MSG_ERROR(missing STL file sstream)) and in the sources: #include sstream So his Linux system hasn't one in the paths the cpp searches through. - So there is even no STL on it ?? (or an really old one containing sstream.h??) Until recently, there wasn't *any* sstream. He can have STL, but upgrades have to be done on Redhat 6.2 and earlier to get this particular one. I guess the key is that if there is an include subdirectory g++-3 then it should be there. Before this version, sstream did not exist on Linux. D. Stimits, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (run updatedb if needed before this). D. Stimits, [EMAIL PROTECTED] k33p h4ck1n6 René -- René Rebe (Registered Linux user: #127875) eMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.rene.rebe.myokay.net/ Anyone sending unwanted advertising e-mail to this address will be charged $25 for network traffic and computing time. By extracting my address from this message or its header, you agree to these terms.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
fair enough, must admit i haven't looked at snd in quite a while... what's promised in the o'reilly articles looks amazing - i'll download the latest version and check it out. de| - Original Message - From: Dave Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2001 10:46 Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1 I guess you haven't seen it lately. Certainly the undo can be as deep as you prefer and spectral analysis features have been there for a while. Editing is non-destructive, even at 32 bits (unless I'm not understanding you correctly ?). Right-click popup menus are now available for whole file and selected area. Panning and amplitude enveloping is also available (always has been, I think).
Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: [Alsa-user] gsmp release 0.0.1
You really should announce this on linux-audio-dev, too. But please skip the complaint about a lack of good wav-editors. There is at least one great wave editor for linux, and that's SND! I tried to contribute my developments to Snd, but heard nothing back from its author. Not a thanks, nothing. If you're not able to suggest and develop features to the editor, it is not that good for the _user_. If the editors would be placed on the shelf because they look good, then I would have no complaints; however, editors are really meant as tools for artists/users. Best regards, Juhana
