Linux-Hardware Digest #790
Linux-Hardware Digest #790, Volume #14 Fri, 18 May 01 13:13:09 EDT Contents: Re: 3com 3c574-TX drivers needed. (John Niedermeyer) My clock doesn't back up!!! (SpacemanSpiff) Re: yes, 2 SGI 1600sw LCD panels DO work in linux in dualhead mode! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Linux: reduced capacity of my hard disk? (Ennio) Re: Linux LCD problem (Kin Keung) Re: Iomega ZipPlus with Red Hat 7.1 (Juergen Sauer) Re: I need help. RH7.1 wont configure my ATI Xpert 128 AGP 32 RAM. Log attached (Sarkie) Re: Will my sound card work? (Markku Kolkka) From: John Niedermeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: 3com 3c574-TX drivers needed. Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:58:49 GMT That worked. Thanks. Dances With Crows [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:3aff4619$0$18894$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... On Sun, 13 May 2001 23:26:48 GMT, John Niedermeyer staggered into the Black Sun and said: Anyone have or know of where to get drivers for the 3com Fast Etherlink 16-Bit PC Card? /lib/modules/$KERNELVERSION/pcmcia/3c574_cs.o ? The 3Com 574 has been supported for quite some time. pcmcia-cs 3.1.24 certainly supports it, and the pcmcia-cs that was current over a year ago supports it. If pcmcia-cs is installed and the cardmgr daemon is running, plugging the card into a PCMCIA socket should result in two high beeps as the appropriate module is loaded and the actions specified in /etc/pcmcia/network.opts are taken. If these things don't happen, then a report on the error messages that do get generated would be useful. pcmcia-cs is actively developed on http://sourceforge.net/ , search for pcmcia-cs and make use of the forums and documentation there. HTH, -- Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops! -/I hit a seg fault -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SpacemanSpiff) Subject: My clock doesn't back up!!! Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:58:45 GMT All I want is to set my time to one of those government servers, with a simple script. say: now = telnet time.blah.blah 13 | grep... | cut ... hwclock --set now ... hwclock --hctosys ... Simple enough, right? WRONG! I messed with this for 2 hours, reading howtos, man pages, web searches, setting TZ, tzconfig, etc... I'd try something, and get DIFFERENT results with the same command!!! I'm in central time in the US, and UTC was getting set to my RTC. I could see it with the `hwclock` command. But no matter what I tried, hwclock --hctosys WOULD NOT set my clock backwards to my time zone. It would set my clock to the SAME as the RTC, it would set my clock 6 hours FORWARD from UTC. It even set my clock to 24 hours ago. I have not idea why. I screwed with TZ, --utc --local and a plethora of other things. As far as I can tell, my environment is just fine. But this just wouldn't work the way the documentation seemed to say it should! I finally shutdown the PC, and set the BIOS time to UTC (which, for some reason was 6 hours ahead) Then , when I booted, suddenly the system time is correct. Can ANYONE give me a clue as to what's going on? I do not want to reboot my server just to get the time set properly. (and I'm not going to just go --local everywhere, that's not the way things are supposed to work!) -Scott Weber -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.os.linux.x Subject: Re: yes, 2 SGI 1600sw LCD panels DO work in linux in dualhead mode! Date: 18 May 2001 13:49:47 GMT In comp.sys.sgi.graphics Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : uhm, numbernine is OUT OF BUSINESS. what possible gain is there to : hold back info on a totally unsupported board? did sgi design the : protocol to 'talk brightness' to the display via the board? why would : sending display data be non proprietary yet the brightness control be : 'secret sauce'? there's just no logic that any sane person can see here. The logic is ownership. Just because #9 is out of business doesn't mean that *someone* still doesn't own the IP. How do you know this does not have some value to them? Let alone that fact that it simply isn't SGI's property to sell or give away. The gain is being able to look at yourself in the mirror each morning and say to yourself I am an honest person. Apparently that is still worth something to the people at SGI. : I'm not shooting you, the messenger. in fact, I used to work at SGI a : few years ago, so I know a bit about life inside SGO. I wasn't a : customer back then, just an employee; but I remember reading endless : tirades on the internal usenet groups about customers complaining : about sgi not wanting to even SELL them this or that; much less : release specs on items
Linux-Hardware Digest #790
Linux-Hardware Digest #790, Volume #13 Thu, 26 Oct 00 23:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Aureal drivers for Linux? (Jim Broughton)
Re: LinkSys betrayed us! Poor prospects for Linux. (Valentin Guillen)
Re: RedHat 7 and ABIT KT7-RAID ("MaxOCP")
Re: LinkSys betrayed us! Poor prospects for Linux. ("Michael Westerman")
Re: RedHat 7 and ABIT KT7-RAID (Rafael)
Re: SCSI recommendation, please (Tony Spinillo)
Re: LinkSys betrayed us! Poor prospects for Linux. (John Hasler)
udma on a BX board ("Lightning")
Re: Networking performance problem ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Ethernet card problem... (Dances With Crows)
Re: Looking for external disk drive (Dances With Crows)
Re: LinkSys betrayed us! Poor prospects for Linux. (Jerry L Kreps,,,)
Re: Did you succeed? (Cheong Kwon-Hee)
Linux driver for PCM-3640 4-port RS-232 module (PC/104)? ("clive")
Re: Lucent 56k pci software modem ("Joseph C. Kopec")
Re: LinkSys betrayed us! Poor prospects for Linux. ("Jason")
From: Jim Broughton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Aureal drivers for Linux?
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:07:05 GMT
Daniel Lenski wrote:
Thanks for your suggestions ... I tried them all but I still seem to have
the same problem ... the drivers install fine, modules load fine, but I
cannot hear anything ... very strange ... i'm wondering if maybe it's a
problem with my PCI bus or something? I've done 'cat /proc/pci' and I
get:
Bus 0, device 8, function 0:
Multimedia audio controller: Unknown vendor Unknown device (rev 254).
Vendor id=12eb. Device id=2.
Medium devsel. Fast back-to-back capable. IRQ 11. Master Capable.
Latency=64. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=12.
Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xec00 [0xec00].
I/O at 0xc800 [0xc801].
I/O at 0xcc00 [0xcc01].
Can anybody who has a an Aureal Vortex 2 tell me if this looks ok? Is
there a way to tell the au8830.o module specifically what are the I/O
addresses or IRQ of the sound card?
Thanks!
Daniel Lenski wrote:
Hi, I have an Aureal Vortex sound card (8830 chipset) and I've had no
luck installing the version 1.1 drivers available at
http://aureal.sourceforge.net ... the drivers compile and install fine
under 2.2.15 kernel, but I can NEVER hear any sound, not by playing a
CD, not by playing an mp3, nothing. I just installed a new 2.2.17
kernel, hoping that might fix it, but now it won't even compile. Does
anybody have any suggestions or tips?
--
Daniel Lenski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"If we couldn't laugh at things that didn't make sense,
we couldn't react to a lot of the world around us."
--Calvin and Hobbes
This was a problem for me also. Here is the solution to the no
sound with the aureal drivers. IF you are using a modular kernel out of
the box then this will work for you if not then your going to need a
kernel recompile and to include some extra modules.
If using a modular kernel with all modules do this 1)
Place these in /etc/rc.d/rc.local
modprobe soundcore modprobe au8830 modprobe sound modprobe softoss2
IF modprobe complains append a .o to each module name and check
/lib/modules/yourKERNELversion/misc to see if they exist.
Note: they must be in this exact order. You must remove any reference in
/etc/conf.modules (/etc/modules.conf other distros than RH) of the
loading
of the au8830 driver.
If you are not running kernel with the above modules recompile the
kernel and modules install them and do the above.
--
Daniel Lenski
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"If we couldn't laugh at things that didn't make sense,
we couldn't react to a lot of the world around us."
--Calvin and Hobbes
Here is my /proc/pci for my vortex 2. The only thing I wonder is why
it has such a high IRQ number. In my experience both windows and
linux all put multimedia controllers lower if done PnP style. Mine
is forced there by me through my computers bios though.
I am not sure whether the module excepts any arguments.
Bus 0, device 13, function 0:
Multimedia audio controller: Unknown vendor Unknown device (rev 250).
Vendor id=12eb. Device id=2.
Medium devsel. Fast back-to-back capable. IRQ 3. Master Capable.
Latency=32. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=12.
Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xe600 [0xe600].
I/O at 0xe800 [0xe801].
I/O at 0xec00 [0xec01].
===
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: Loading...
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: Scanning for device VENDOR=0x12eb, ID=0x2
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: Found vortex PCI device:
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: id=2
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: bar0=0xe600
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel: au88xx: irq=3
Oct 26 17:24:15 jimspc kernel:
Linux-Hardware Digest #790
Linux-Hardware Digest #790, Volume #12Wed, 3 May 00 02:13:13 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux Uses Less Power? (John McKown)
Re: HP CD-RW dies when it spins down (Steve Martin)
QA from this NG 3 May ("K.Tsakaloglou")
Re: Newbie: Can I perform a COMPLETE LINUX installation on my SECOND HD? (chump)
Re: Problem with setting up HCF v.90 56k PCI modem for Linux. (Dale Wilcox)
Re: ATT: Can someone pls help? (Richard Lyon)
Modem again ("Brian")
Re: Linux Uses Less Power? (James Waldby)
Re: cacheability of motherboard (Drew Eckhardt)
Lucent PCI modem ("Alex Ma")
Re: Have new parallel port - but it's PCI!! ("Mark Graybill")
Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Can=B4t?= blank CD-RW (Darryl Bryant)
MPC CDrom under linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
I need sound driver for the Yamaha YMF-724 in Mandrake 7.0 (boy_afraid)
Re: help with a CD-R (Scott Johnson)
SONY SD-5000 scsi tape drives (Maurie Daly)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John McKown)
Subject: Re: Linux Uses Less Power?
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:03:16 -0500
On Mon, 1 May 2000 20:02:47 -0400, Thomas J. Canich
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it's a funny thing. processor fans are. You don't need them, as long as
you are using the processor as intended by the manufacturer (ie, not
overclocking it). All of the processors on the market are designed to air
cool, using nothing more than a heat sink.
I'm curious about the statement about overclocking. I bought a dual P-III 450
system from a Web merchant. It works wonderfully. It has CPU fans on both of
the CPUs. Most of the time, this system runs around 46 Celsus. However, when
I start up the Distributed Net Client (dnetc), within about 3 minutes, the
temperature (according to LMSensors) has climbed to 55 Celsus. At this point,
I get a CPU overheat alarm. Does this mean that the seller has overclocked my
machine to get the 450 Mhz? Or can other things cause this? BTW - the same
thing happens on a NexStar AMD K6-2 400Mhz system that I bought at Fry's.
I've been trying to figure out how to keep these systems cooler. I did
buy a dual fan that takes up a PCI slot, but it appears that this is not
really helping. This is probably due to the way that the motherboard is
laid out (SuperMicro P6DGE or DBE - I forget which). The 3.5 inch drive bays
make one wall and the AGP video card separates the CPU area from the PCI
slot area. Any suggestions on how to make this thing run cooler? I'm fairly
good with putting in drives boards, but I would be scared to try to mess
with the actual CPUs (I.e. put on a new heatsink or some such).
Thanks to all for any thoughts,
John
--
From: Steve Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: HP CD-RW dies when it spins down
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:45:47 -0400
I jumped into the middle of this, so pardon me if this is off-base, but have
you checked the HP Web site for new flash code for the drive? My drive had
a problem of not recognising blank disks that was solved by the latest code.
Actually, I spent about an hour this morning perusing both the HP site
and
the Philips site (this drive was reportedly OEM'd by Philips) with no
luck.
HP doesn't seem to list any firmware upgrades for this drive. As for the
Philips Web site, let's say that I have not been so frustrated in a long
time.
--
From: "K.Tsakaloglou" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: QA from this NG 3 May
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 05:16:39 +0300
Questions and answers from this newsgroup (archived by subject) can be found
at http://server.hellug.gr/LUGistics/en/pub/QA_articles_main.php3
Links suggested in those messages are categorized at
http://links.hellug.gr
K.Tsakaloglou
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
From: chump [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Newbie: Can I perform a COMPLETE LINUX installation on my SECOND HD?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:15:32 -0700
I just installed RH6.2 this weekend on another HD and it
got fairly stressful because I wanted a clean line between
the two. I set up the Linux HD as the secondary master and
literally disconnected my c/windows hd because I have heard
about horrific slip ups that can happen while manually
partitioning.
Anyway, I boot either HD directly from the BIOS. I don't
know if this is a good idea as far as burning out any ROM
but oh well...motherboards are relatively cheap.
Good Luck
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web
Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
--
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:36:40 -0600
From: Dale Wilcox [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux.caldera,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
Subject: Re: Problem with setting up HCF v.90 56k PCI modem for Linux.
Mun Sing wrote:
Hi gu
Linux-Hardware Digest #790
Linux-Hardware Digest #790, Volume #10 Sun, 18 Jul 99 16:13:26 EDT
Contents:
Re: MGE UPS ESV 11+ (Johan Fredrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8hman?=)
Re: Trying to set up X Server . . . VGA card not listed. Need help (Scott Marlowe)
Re: linux compatible laser printer ("Robert C. Paulsen, Jr.")
Re: About to build Linux RAID box. Need advice. (Scott Marlowe)
Re: Trying to set up X Server . . . VGA card not listed. Need help (Johan Kullstam)
Re: About to build Linux RAID box. Need advice. (Floyd Davidson)
recovery nightmare, corrupt part'n table/MBR (Greg Tschumper)
problem w/ Canopus 2500 TNT using NVidia X Server (Timothy McClanahan)
Building a Linux Box - comments? (Mark)
Re: ATAPI Zip Drive Linux 2.0.10 fails ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
ATI All-In-Wonder 128 - Another One (Taylor)
Printing problem with RH 5.2; dead parallel port? (Steve Arnold)
Re: Building a Linux Box - comments? (Scott Marlowe)
From: Johan Fredrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8hman?= [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MGE UPS ESV 11+
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:56:11 +
Now I'm using MPE UPS ESV 11+ with Redhat 6.0 .
The driver in the homepage of MGE is based on glibc 2.0.x
But it worked well without any problem.
Please read documents carefully..
That is very strange !!! I've talked to several people that have the same
problem as I have !
I use Mandrake 6.0 (almost Readhat), and I really followed the documentation.
--
JFO
--
From: Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Trying to set up X Server . . . VGA card not listed. Need help
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:36:58 -0600
jdm wrote:
I have succesfully installed SuSE Linux on my older pentium system,
but my ancient (1994) ISA VESA VGA card is not listed in the list of
supported cards in the X11R6 configuration utility. It was made in
Taiwan by Joytech Computer, and has a Cirrus Logic chipset with the
numbers CL-GD5428-80QCA and CL-GD5904-20DC-A1. I have no idea what
the clock settings and other low-level configuration options might be
on this card. Does anyone have any suggestions on what would be the
safest way to configure X for this card?
Try the Cirrus Logic GD542x driver. My experience is that these cards
often work, but have strange graphics glitches during I/O and such.
--
From: "Robert C. Paulsen, Jr." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: linux compatible laser printer
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:03:03 -0500
akm76 wrote:
Hi,
I'm looking for advice on choosing the right laser printer for my linux box.
What features should i look for, and which should i avoid?
( already got in trouble getting "softmodem" )
Thanks
Take a look at...
http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/printer_list.cgi?predef=CJ
--
Robert Paulsen http://paulsen.home.texas.net
If my return address contains "ZAP." please remove it. Sorry for the
inconvenience but the unsolicited email is getting out of control.
--
From: Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: About to build Linux RAID box. Need advice.
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:46:49 -0600
Floyd Davidson wrote:
Scott Marlowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sincero arcadio wrote:
Floyd Davidson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: the total power per unit is about 40 watts, and 8 of them adds up to
: more than 250 watts! Probably the best solution there is a pair of 250
: watt supplies.
Oohh ... now theres an idea I haven't thought of! Use a pair of
250watt power supplies. I've been doing searches for power supplies
greater than 300W and those things are actually pretty expensive (like
close to $100 or even more)! Using two 250W supplies would definitely be
cheaper. Now, i wonder how I would hook it up so one switch would power
on both power supplies ... doesn't sound too hard, but I'm no electrician.
If you're going to the trouble to build a large RAID array, you might wanna
look at a large all in one enclosure that has dual redundant power supplies.
Super Micro makes a case (SC-800/SC-800A) that has 11 5.25 HH bays, and dual
350 or 400 watt hot swappable supplies. When it positively absolutely has to
stay up, these are pretty nice choices, and run about $500 to $600.
I've seen larger enclosures with 18-22 5.25 HH bays with dual 400s running
about $1,000 or so.
The fellow points out that he feels a 300W power supply is
"pretty expensive" at "$100 or even more", so you recommend $500
to $1000 dollar solutions instead? That is a joke?
In the original article he mentioned acquiring the hard disks for
$25 each. I don't think this
Linux-Hardware Digest #790
Linux-Hardware Digest #790, Volume #9Sat, 20 Mar 99 16:13:26 EST
Contents:
Floppies ("Alan S. Golub")
Desktop icons ("Alan S. Golub")
Re: Is Windows for idiots? (Sven Utcke)
Re: CD mount error ("Jonathan Ellis")
VIPER 550 TNT IN LINUX ("Tony")
Re: Is Windows for idiots? (Re: X munges the graphics card?) (Steve)
Newbie questions ("Alain Claessens")
Re: Help! Bizarre error ! Zip no longer works upon install of new Hard Drive (Barry
Bogart)
Re: Modems for Linux and Unix? ("Liam")
No hassle sound card for Redhat (Stuart R. Fuller)
Re: No Mouse ? (Axel Liljencrantz)
Re: Migrating RH Linux 5.2 to new hard drive (steve)
Re: Is Windows for idiots? (Re: X munges the graphics card?) (Steffen Kluge)
TNT video card and Linux 5.2 redhat (Elbert Clarke)
Re: Does Encore n/w card support linux (Kishore)
Re: 3com US Robotics: I can't make a decision! (mezcal)
Re: "Select the application, and then the platform" (Ed Bruce)
Re: ATI Xpert@Play 98 AGP (Swietanowski Artur)
Re: Toshiba Satellite 4005CDS Serial I/O Woes (Hugh McCurdy)
Asus Riva TNT on Red Hat 5.0 (Hurricane) ("qwerty")
Re: CD RW - Awful simple question ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
From: "Alan S. Golub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Floppies
Date: 20 Mar 1999 19:29:31 GMT
Is there a way to configure RedHat 5.2 to avoid having to mount and
unmount the floppy drive? For example, using WordPerfect 8, it would be
great to be able to save to a floppy without having to open a new shell
and type in the mount commands. Even if the only answer is that you've
got to mount and unmount every single time, I'd like to know for certain
that that's the case. Thanks.
--
From: "Alan S. Golub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Desktop icons
Date: 20 Mar 1999 19:30:48 GMT
Is there a way to place an icon for WordPerfect 8 on the desktop? I'm
running the fvwm default desktop that loads with Redhat 5.2 Thanks.
--
From: Sven Utcke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.software.year-2000
Subject: Re: Is Windows for idiots?
Date: 20 Mar 1999 19:30:10 +0100
Kay Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Bloody Viking wrote:
The RTC expiry is Y2.1K. You could use a 64 bit time_t and have the OS
backdate the RTC and store the backdating information in a file like
/etc/backdate.
[...]
Of course, this is an ugly way to make Linux last forever, but I can't
think of a better way, given the nature of PC hardware.
2^63s = 292,471,208,679years
It's pretty certain the sun will go all cold before we will run out of
2^63.
Sven
--
_ _ Lehrstuhl fuer Mustererkennung und Bildverarbeitung
| |_ __ | |__Sven Utcke
| | ' \| '_ \ phone: +49 761 203 8274 Am Flughafen 17
|_|_|_|_|_.__/ fax : +49 761 203 8262 79110 Freiburg i. Brsg.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~utcke
--
From: "Jonathan Ellis" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: CD mount error
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:07:55 -
I too just got this message tonight whilst mounting the CD Rom, I found that
it was because Linux was too fast for the CD Rom drive and tried to mount it
too soon!
Try once and get the error message. If, like me, the CD light comes on and
the drive starts spinning, try mounting again straight away. Worked for me
.
Jon.
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdd
or too many mounted file systems
--
From: "Tony" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VIPER 550 TNT IN LINUX
Date: 19 Mar 1999 07:46:05 GMT
Hey,
Being a WAY rookie Linux user, I was wondering if there is a driver
for my viper 550. 16 colours (ALMOST!) makes me want to use Windows98 again.
Thanks.
Tony :)
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Is Windows for idiots? (Re: X munges the graphics card?)
Date: 19 Mar 1999 07:46:24 GMT
I agree with most of what you have said Richard.
In a nutshell my belief has always been,
"Select the application, and then the platform"
If you need an application to control robotics that manufacturer
widgets and the best version is available for Solaris, then that is
the way you must go.
Scripting and configuration is an area where nix's have a huge
advantage and don't get me wrong vi and Emacs as well as slrn and the
others I mentioned are fine programs but the average user is not going
to be interested in them af
