Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Oleg Kobets [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Awarness: Mostly companies are not aware that there is such thing as Linux and so they never tell the people who actually build the site that it should support non-IE browsers. The issue is not Linux. FWIW I am weird enough to have Mozilla as my default browser on Windows at work - I like it better than IE and I like the fact that I have the same browser on both Linux and Windows. The real issue is that whatever you do inside should not break standard protocols and interfaces. That's what people are not aware of. Costs: Even if the company knows about Linux and wants it's users to be able to use the site, the people / company that building the site can say Ohh, it's Linux, so it's more hours and will cost more. Then the managers will do a little math and figure that Linux number of Linux users is so small that it would probably be not wotrh it. This is BS. Don't take it personally - it's not you who is BSing here. A company need not hire two web programmers to build a version of a web site for Windows/IE and another version for Linux/[other browsers]. Once it realizes there are standards out there it needs one programmer to do the job. Once. Quicker. Without the extra effort to make it IE-specific. The only extra cost here is that it needs to hire a programmer who knows about standards (and who has bothered to learn the IE/specific stuff to fix things, not to create new ones) and not a 15-year-old nephew of the CFO. Hiring the 15-year-old is, by the way, more expensive mid- and long-term. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open Source, then why do you have the Tux logo? Thanks, Hetz = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 10:12:13AM +0200, Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote: Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open Source, then why do you have the Tux logo? Free software and open source. We like penguins. Oh, you expected a serious answer? The amuta, as mentioned in the FAQ, is about free software and open source. As it happens, the most visible single project in that field is GNU/Linux, so the Amuta obviously pays a lot of attention to GNU/Linux and its users. Of course, if anyone wants to organize a BSD conference, we are all for it as well. And we like penguins. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. -- Alan Cox = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank HaPoalim and Mozilla
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:56:39 +0200, Ilya Konstantinov wrote about Bank HaPoalim and Mozilla: Speaking of banks and Mozilla bugs: Bank HaPoalim's online account site displays its menus reversed due to a Mozilla bug: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165609 (yes, this is a rather obscure one; I wonder if anyone understood it) Their site also has some issues due to IE-specific code, but the main issue is an actual Mozilla bug. It is interesting that reload fixes this problem, and it doesn't appear again in the session. -- Dr. Zvi Har'El mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Mathematics tel:+972-54-227607 Technion - Israel Institute of Technology fax:+972-4-8324654 http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/ Haifa 32000, ISRAEL If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all. -- Thumper (1942) Friday, 22 Tevet 5763, 27 December 2002, 12:19PM = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 10:12:13AM +0200, Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote: Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open Source, then why do you have the Tux logo? The amuta, as mentioned in the FAQ, is about free software and open source. As it happens, the most visible single project in that field is GNU/Linux, so the Amuta obviously pays a lot of attention to GNU/Linux and its users. Of course, if anyone wants to organize a BSD conference, we are all for it as well. We like camels too. I'd appreciate one (maybe stepping on a snake ? ;-) on HaMakor.org.il Gabor ps. you can fetch the one on www.pm.org that one is a free camel. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 12:54:12AM +0200, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: Howdy, everyone, Gilad has put together a preliminary website for Hamakor, which is now available at http://www.hamakor.org.il. The website has a short FAQ, and the amuta's takanon. Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Thanks, Muli. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. -- Alan Cox Another note about the FAQ or maybe even the TAKANON is an explanation why open source and free software are a good thing. In particular, how is free software different from, for example, free cars, free books and free music and why this freedom is not comparable to lack of moral and other restraint. -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
I appreciate the point about Hamakor aiming the entire open source area. Having a Penguin on the home page might promote the confusion with which a first-time visitor to the site already has about open source vs. linux vs. apache vs. GNU etc. Maybe a mix of logos is in order, or even a dominant GNU logo can be regarded as a representative of the movement? --Amos -Original Message- From: Gabor Szabo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 10:12:13AM +0200, Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote: Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open Source, then why do you have the Tux logo? The amuta, as mentioned in the FAQ, is about free software and open source. As it happens, the most visible single project in that field is GNU/Linux, so the Amuta obviously pays a lot of attention to GNU/Linux and its users. Of course, if anyone wants to organize a BSD conference, we are all for it as well. We like camels too. I'd appreciate one (maybe stepping on a snake ? ;-) on HaMakor.org.il = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the point about Hamakor aiming the entire open source area. Having a Penguin on the home page might promote the confusion with which a first-time visitor to the site already has about open source vs. linux vs. apache vs. GNU etc. Maybe a mix of logos is in order, or even a dominant GNU logo can be regarded as a representative of the movement? I don't know if this was the intention of the founders of the amuta, but please look at the penguin: It's not exactly Tux, but only a part of him; More specifically, only his face. Now look for the biggest thing in the picture: It's his bill (beak). The Hebrew translation for the bill / the beak, is HaMakor, which is the name of the amuta. If it's still confusing, I suggest to insert a black text, saying HaMakor in Hebrew, on the yellow bill of the penguin. -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, 2002-12-27 at 10:12, Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote: Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open Source, then why do you have the Tux logo? Both )pen Source Free Software. Linux is prominent example of one or both ;-) and it's a well recognised icon. About Tux - well, Hamakor also means the beak and Penguins being a kind of bird have beaks. I'm affriad I am to be blamed for this rather lame pub... ;-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, 2002-12-27 at 04:29, Shaul Karl wrote: Is it legitimate and polite to ask some more details about the people that were mentioned in the FAQ and that I haven't heard their names before? 1. Doron Ofek was mentioned the day before yesterday to be affiliated with www.penguin.org.il. 2. Katriel Traum is from www.whatsup.org.il and works on linbrew, doesn't he? 3. Doron Carmely Shrim is a new name for me. 4. And the same with Tom Finer. The people you mention are active in the TelAviv Linux group (in fact, they practivly founded it) that holds bi weekly meeting and activities. They are also the people behind the Penguin and various other Free Software related activities. Hamakor is trying to unite the various Linux groups and activists in Israel and get us working *together*. There is more to Linux in Israel then IGLU, and I'm saying it as a proud IGLU member - whatever that means ;-) Doesn't an amuta needs a ROE HESHBON? I didn't saw any. Out lawyer says it doesn't have to. It is something we *want* to have though. If you know one that is willing to work pro-bono for the cause we would sure glad to hear about it. Barring that we *might* pay for one from memberships fees - once the amuta is registered and we can add new members that is... What about promoting open standards? Shouldn't that be explicitly mentioned? Actually, it's a very good idea. Consider the Amuta a typical Open Source project - good patches are always welcome ;-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, 2002-12-27 at 13:48, Shaul Karl wrote: Another note about the FAQ or maybe even the TAKANON is an explanation why open source and free software are a good thing. In particular, how is free software different from, for example, free cars, free books and free music and why this freedom is not comparable to lack of moral and other restraint. One of the planned sections for the Amuta web site will be devoted to articles explainig this - if you write one we promise to publish it there. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, 2002-12-27 at 14:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the point about Hamakor aiming the entire open source area. Having a Penguin on the home page might promote the confusion with which a first-time visitor to the site already has about open source vs. linux vs. apache vs. GNU etc. Maybe a mix of logos is in order, or even a dominant GNU logo can be regarded as a representative of the movement? AFAIK the logo doesn't have any official standing - it is not part of the takanon or registrarion (but I will check with out lawyer, Haim Ravia). Therefore, anyone wishing to offer a better logo is very welcome. A bunch of logos might be very confusing IMHO, though. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
This particular FAQ was meant to answer questions about the society itself, not about the things the society is trying to promote. It was meant as an introduction as to who we are, and thus does not delve into definitions of what is it we want to do. A broader FAQ will probably be along later, though I kinda like the seperation this one has. Sh Shaul Karl wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 12:54:12AM +0200, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: Howdy, everyone, Gilad has put together a preliminary website for Hamakor, which is now available at http://www.hamakor.org.il. The website has a short FAQ, and the amuta's takanon. Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Thanks, Muli. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. -- Alan Cox Another note about the FAQ or maybe even the TAKANON is an explanation why open source and free software are a good thing. In particular, how is free software different from, for example, free cars, free books and free music and why this freedom is not comparable to lack of moral and other restraint. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
BA Discriminators are users. Customer (Leumi in this case) looking BA at Browser Statistics won't pay money on customization for BA Netscape+Mozilla. If you and all your friends will browse about I'm already paying money as BLL client. Part of these money is website budget. Just website users for some reason still do not account as customers that require service... Sad. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote about Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il: Software related activities. Hamakor is trying to unite the various Linux groups and activists in Israel and get us working *together*. There is more to Linux in Israel then IGLU, and I'm saying it as a proud IGLU member - whatever that means ;-) Just to reiterate something that various people already said (and that I know Gilad knows :)): Hamakor is not a *Linux* user group. It is not even a union of all Linux users group. It was coceived as a society for the promotion of free software [1] of every kind, not just Linux. I want to remind you that free software existed before Linux, and still exists independently of Linux: there's *BSD, for example, and many people use free software on commercial OS's, like Solaris, Tru64 Unix, or god forbid Windows. [1] If it were up to me, the official name of the amuta will not include the redundant lable open source (in addition to free software), and even if it did, certainly not in front of free software. But I'm not in the board of Hamakor, and I already raised this point (with long explanations) before, so I'll shut up now :) What about promoting open standards? Shouldn't that be explicitly mentioned? Actually, it's a very good idea. Consider the Amuta a typical Open Source project - good patches are always welcome ;-) Before Hamakor was created and a first vaad was elected, many of us raised many good ideas of what this Amuta will be about. But once a vaad exists, one of its purposes is to define the Amuta's policy; Anybody can obviously think differently, but you cannot represent the Amuta if you go against its official policy. Knowing the nice people on the vaad, I'm sure they are open to other people's suggestions for FAQs, ideological manifestos, policies, and so on. But they get to decide: that's why they were voted in. And if they make bad decisions, next year, when the Amuta has more members, they can be voted out. -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Dec 27 2002, 22 Tevet 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If you tell the truth, you don't have to http://nadav.harel.org.il |remember anything. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote about Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il: About Tux - well, Hamakor also means the beak and Penguins being a kind of bird have beaks. I'm affriad I am to be blamed for this rather lame pub... ;-) When Gilad suggested this logo everyone involved in the preperations of this Amuta liked the idea (and nobody objected), so it stuck by default. I think the beak idea is great and should be kept. If there's any artist here that can draw a good beak logo that does *not* look like a penguin's, maybe it will be a good idea for the vaad to consider - because people do have a point - a penguin logo will make people assume that we're either about Linux, or we don't know that Linux isn't the only free software out there. I can imagine Richard Stallman's outrage if he saw this logo :) -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Dec 27 2002, 22 Tevet 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A diplomat thinks twice before saying http://nadav.harel.org.il |nothing. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB printer problem
On Friday 27 December 2002 08:13, shlomo solomon wrote: CUPS WWW admin tool and the KDE printer tool both allow me to start or stop the printer or even to send a test page. But nothing gets printed. The only indications I have that there's a problem are the error messages I sent in my previous post. BTW - the KDE printing manager also gives me the same error message (Unable to open USB port device file /dev/usb/lp0: No such device). Sometimes, instead of that, I get the device busy message. I'm becoming more convinced that this is a USB problem, rather than a printer problem. Do you aggree? Oops, No such device is indeed a message from the driver (I've confused it with No such file, which would've meant the driver isn't loaded). I suggest you search the web (especially http://groups.google.com ) for similar experiences with your printer model. Its possible that the generic USB Printer protocol doesn't work with your printer and you need a special driver. Other than that, all I can suggest is reading the driver's source code, learning how the driver works, printk'ing here and there and coming up with a solution yourself. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
