Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
Haggai Eran wrote: I'm not sure, but it's certainly possible that debian would take 14 discs. If you want a really minimal cd, download the netboot installer cd, which contains only the base system. then you can download just the packages you want. Otherwise, the first cd is a good choice too. Lior Kaplan wrote: Woody was 7 CDs... Sarge is much larger. The first CD should be enough for most things. Thanks, Haggai and Lior. From your answers I understand that sarge-i386-1.jigdo is the file to be initially downloaded. (I do not need to keep download time as short as possible, and it would be nice to have a full CD.) Gmar Hatima Tova, --- Omer My own blog is at http://www.livejournal.com/users/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
Omer Zak wrote: This is confusing to me. I thought that Debian (for a single architecture) fits into 7 CD's, and now it seems to fit into 14 CD's - or did I miss something which is too obvious to be explained in the missing README file in the above Web site? In addition to what my predecessors said, please note that Debian are using a tool called popcon. It's an opt-in option to send the list of installed (and used) packages to the debian project. They use it as a popularity contest between the packages (hence the name). The more popular a package, the earlier it is on the CD list. They do that to counter the 14 CDs problem you mention. I don't have any statistics, but my guess would be that about 80% of the people can make do with just the first CD, and 90% with just the first two. Please note, however, that some Israeli only use pattern are unlikely to make it into the first CDs. Two such patterns that come to mind are Culmus and PPTP. Personally, I find that downloading the missing stuff off the internet is faster for me than hanging around with all CDs. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dominating the world of screen savers?
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:33:37 +0200, Omer Zak wrote: During the last few months, I noticed that the first thing, which people notice about my Linux installations, is the screensaver. Which one/s do you use? Turns out that Linux provides much richer repertoire of screensavers than MS-Windows. By default, yes, but there are many companies providing screen-savers and backgrounds for free and for pay only for Windows, so alas it is ahead there. One such site is webshots.com, which is about the only thing apart from games that I miss from my Windows partition. -- Offer Kaye = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
Hi, PPTP - place 2856. Culmus - place 8939. I guess they also have a factor between the installed column and the vote column. From where do I know that? http://popcon.debian.org/ Omer Zak wrote: This is confusing to me. I thought that Debian (for a single architecture) fits into 7 CD's, and now it seems to fit into 14 CD's - or did I miss something which is too obvious to be explained in the missing README file in the above Web site? In addition to what my predecessors said, please note that Debian are using a tool called popcon. It's an opt-in option to send the list of installed (and used) packages to the debian project. They use it as a popularity contest between the packages (hence the name). The more popular a package, the earlier it is on the CD list. They do that to counter the 14 CDs problem you mention. I don't have any statistics, but my guess would be that about 80% of the people can make do with just the first CD, and 90% with just the first two. Please note, however, that some Israeli only use pattern are unlikely to make it into the first CDs. Two such patterns that come to mind are Culmus and PPTP. Personally, I find that downloading the missing stuff off the internet is faster for me than hanging around with all CDs. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dominating the world of screen savers?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 09:18:12AM +0200, Offer Kaye wrote: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:33:37 +0200, Omer Zak wrote: During the last few months, I noticed that the first thing, which people notice about my Linux installations, is the screensaver. Which one/s do you use? bsod -linux ... Turns out that Linux provides much richer repertoire of screensavers than MS-Windows. By default, yes, but there are many companies providing screen-savers and backgrounds for free and for pay only for Windows, so alas it is ahead there. One such site is webshots.com, which is about the only thing apart from games that I miss from my Windows partition. I searched for photo of the day, and came up with a couple of sites. How about the following daily cron (untested): wget http://www.steves-digicam/dpotd/`date +'%b%Y/%m%d%Y.jpg'` -O$HOME/snapshot.jpg \ xsetbg -display :0 $HOME/snapshot.jpg As the basic idea is so simple, I'm sure some people have already packaged sothing similar. The infrastructure is there. Frankly the idea of downloading executables from the web daily sounds like bad idea. FWIW, xscreensavers uses the same concept of screen savers that are simply executables. But noone encourges you to download new ones from untrusted sources. xlockmore does not have separate executables, but doesn't seem to provide any way of adding new savers wthout rebuilding the binary. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
Thanks Shachar, I'll need to have PPTP on hand before starting to install, because otherwise I'll not have Internet connection to download the rest of Debian packages. Question whose best answer is RTFM the document at ___: If I want to avoid having to download another CD-ROM just for a single package, how should I structure the directory tree somewhere in my PC (/var/cache or whatever) and specify it in sources.list, so that apt-get/dselect/aptitude/etc. would accept it as a source for Debian packages? (Could I just emulate the directory structure which I find in the CD?) (My PC's hard disk has several partitions, so I am going to retain my current RedHat 8.0 installation in some partitions, and install Debian in currently-empty partitions - so I can leave packages in one of the RedHat partitions and have Debian installer mount it access the packages there - but I need to know what directory structure and auxiliary files to have on hand. The RedHat 8.0 stuff will go away once I complete migration to Debian.) --- Omer My own blog is at http://www.livejournal.com/users/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html Shachar Shemesh wrote: Omer Zak wrote: This is confusing to me. I thought that Debian (for a single architecture) fits into 7 CD's, and now it seems to fit into 14 CD's - or did I miss something which is too obvious to be explained in the missing README file in the above Web site? In addition to what my predecessors said, please note that Debian are using a tool called popcon. It's an opt-in option to send the list of installed (and used) packages to the debian project. They use it as a popularity contest between the packages (hence the name). The more popular a package, the earlier it is on the CD list. They do that to counter the 14 CDs problem you mention. I don't have any statistics, but my guess would be that about 80% of the people can make do with just the first CD, and 90% with just the first two. Please note, however, that some Israeli only use pattern are unlikely to make it into the first CDs. Two such patterns that come to mind are Culmus and PPTP. Personally, I find that downloading the missing stuff off the internet is faster for me than hanging around with all CDs. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 09:18:22AM +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Omer Zak wrote: This is confusing to me. I thought that Debian (for a single architecture) fits into 7 CD's, and now it seems to fit into 14 CD's - or did I miss something which is too obvious to be explained in the missing README file in the above Web site? In addition to what my predecessors said, please note that Debian are using a tool called popcon. It's an opt-in option to send the list of installed (and used) packages to the debian project. They use it as a popularity contest between the packages (hence the name). The more popular a package, the earlier it is on the CD list. They do that to counter the 14 CDs problem you mention. I don't have any statistics, but my guess would be that about 80% of the people can make do with just the first CD, and 90% with just the first two. Please note, however, that some Israeli only use pattern are unlikely to make it into the first CDs. Two such patterns that come to mind are Culmus and PPTP. Personally, I find that downloading the missing stuff off the internet is faster for me than hanging around with all CDs. pptp should be on the first CD, just like pppoe. At least on the netinstl CD they are. However do you want to make Debian Ehad (A single CD with most of the relevant software for israelies)? Basically what you need is to maintain a slightly modified pool of packages on that CD. Should be possible to be done automatically, given a mirror on the same machine. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SELinux - hot or not?
Hi, as a user of the year-old Fedora Core 1, that has just been declared legacy, I'm anxiously waiting until the end of next month when Fedora Core 3 should be out and I can upgrade. Today I decided to prepare myself and look at what will be new in FC3. One of the more drastic changes in FC3 will be that SELinux, the NSA's Security-Enhanced Linux patches, will be enabled by default. I was wondering how that will effect my life (or at least my computing life). I was wondering if anyone here has any real-life experience with using SELinux, and can say whether it's hot or not. Is it good, bad, or ugly? 4 years ago, I read an article http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa2000/cowan.html titled SubDomain: Parsimonious Server Security, describing what can most easily be described as a file access firewall - allowing a system administrator to describe which files which application can or can't access. So that some server can be run as root, but will only be allowed to read certain files and write certain other files (even if hijacked by crackers). The idea seemed great, the implementation seemed very nice and easy to use, but it was only available in some obscure Linux distribution (Immunix). Also, apparently this SubDomain and Immunix were not free software (and still aren't). It appears that SELinux is supposed to do something similar, but in a mannar far more complex. In fact, it seems so complex to configure, that I'll probably just need to use whatever default rules Fedora gives me. Is this impression correct, or exaggerated? Will the default rules be any good? Will my productivity (?) come to a grinding halt as I try to figure out how to stay afloat the new roles and types and file labels concepts that SELinux will impose? (SubDomain did not impose any new concepts on the users, and this was a large part of its beauty) Will my computer's performance now resemble that of a Pentium 100? ;) I found in http://www.immunix.com/pdfs/immunix_selinux.pdf a comparison between SubDomain and the new SELinux. Naturally, being written by the SubDomain people it is far from being objective, but it increased my fear from SELinux's complexity. Is this fear justified? Overrated? Is SELinux the best thing since sliced bread? I'd be happy to hear some opinions, and even better opinions backed with actual experience with SELinux. -- Nadav Har'El| Friday, Sep 24 2004, 9 Tishri 5765 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Tourist: Someone who goes 3,000 miles to http://nadav.harel.org.il |get a picture in front of his car. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused about Debian Testing CD images
On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 10:21:01AM +0200, Omer Zak wrote: Thanks Shachar, I'll need to have PPTP on hand before starting to install, because otherwise I'll not have Internet connection to download the rest of Debian packages. You'll need to make basicdally two changes: 1. Add the package to the packages on the CD 2. modify the installer to configure a pptp connection before setting up the apt sources (1) is fairly simple and technical and automatable. I can post a small HOWTO later on. (2) The debian installer has two main phases: 1. basic configuration: very minimal settings and a debootstrap to install the base system, a boot loader, and reboot 2. On the first boot the system runs 'base-config new' on the first console base-config basicaally runs scripts from /usr/lib/base-config/menu The .mnu files there give the order of running: $ grep ^Order: /usr/lib/base-config/menu/*.mnu |sort -k2 -n /usr/lib/base-config/menu/debconf-seed.mnu:Order: 5 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/intro.mnu:Order: 10 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/keyboard.mnu:Order: 20 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/timezone.mnu:Order: 30 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/passwd.mnu:Order: 40 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/hostname.mnu:Order: 50 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/pon.mnu:Order: 60 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/apt-setup.mnu:Order: 70 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/pkgsel.mnu:Order: 80 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/mta.mnu:Order: 100 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/finish.mnu:Order: 120 /usr/lib/base-config/menu/shell.mnu:Order: As you can see, 'pon' is run before apt-setup. The script allows you to configure a ppp connection. So basically to accomplish (2) you need to either create an extra menu entry in base-config, or modify the script pon . I already have built a small installer udeb package that can add and/or delete files to /usr/lib/base-config/menu at install time, if you want it. So what is now needed is a small procedure to set up a connection to your ISP. Basically what you need to do is to drop an appropriate peer file into /etc/ppp/peers . See the current dsl-provider for an example for something that should work with pppoe . Then you start the connection with 'pon peer_file_name' where peer_file_name is the name of the file in /etc/ppp/peers -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SELinux - hot or not?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 10:28:40AM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: Hi, as a user of the year-old Fedora Core 1, that has just been declared legacy, I'm anxiously waiting until the end of next month when Fedora Core 3 should be out and I can upgrade. Today I decided to prepare myself and look at what will be new in FC3. One of the more drastic changes in FC3 will be that SELinux, the NSA's Security-Enhanced Linux patches, will be enabled by default. I was wondering how that will effect my life (or at least my computing life). LWN just wrote an article about FC3. LWN subscribers: http://lwn.net/Articles/103261/ . Non-subscribers: it should become avilable in 8 days (thus I wanted to add it for the sake of later archive readers). Some of the points: 1. FC3 includes udev. Another new technology to read about and a potential source of migration issues. 2. The installation defaults to set the filesystem with LVM, rather htan plain partitions 3. Something regarding SELinux: Fedora Core 3 marks the Fedora team's second stab at SELinux, and they are asking[0] that users give SELinux another try as well. According to Colin Walters, this release marks a scaled-back approach that should cause fewer problems while still providing additional security for select system daemons. Instead of the original strict policy which covered everything, a new targeted policy has been developed which only applies SELinux restrictions to a few select system daemons. Regular user login sessions are unrestricted. [0] http://lwn.net/Articles/103233/ -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SELinux - hot or not?
Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 10:28:40AM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: ... LWN just wrote an article about FC3. LWN subscribers: http://lwn.net/Articles/103261/ . Non-subscribers: it should become avilable in 8 days (thus I wanted to add it for the sake of later archive readers). Some of the points: 1. FC3 includes udev. Another new technology to read about and a potential source of migration issues. 2. The installation defaults to set the filesystem with LVM, rather htan plain partitions LVM turned on by default?! SELinux tuned on by default?! udev?! It looks more as a laboratory of technologies than a distribution... -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SELinux - hot or not?
Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 10:28:40AM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote: ... LWN just wrote an article about FC3. LWN subscribers: http://lwn.net/Articles/103261/ . Non-subscribers: it should become avilable in 8 days (thus I wanted to add it for the sake of later archive readers). Some of the points: 1. FC3 includes udev. Another new technology to read about and a potential source of migration issues. 2. The installation defaults to set the filesystem with LVM, rather htan plain partitions LVM turned on by default?! SELinux tuned on by default?! udev?! It looks more as a laboratory of technologies than a distribution... The following contains excerpts from: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html Here are two of the 15 objectives for the project: 5. Be on the leading edge of open source technology, by adopting and helping develop new features and version upgrades. 13. Form the basis of Red Hat's commercially supported operating system products. And also here is the first (of 3) non-objectives for the project: 1. Slow rate of change. The rest is my opinion: Of course one can take other objectives from the same document and try to show the opposite, but my point is that the inclusion of these technologies can be justified by the project leaders on the basis of the above official project objectives. -- Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice Regards, Yoni Rabkin Katzenell = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
