Re: Chinese KitKat
Find an phone/electronics repair shop with an _infrared_ BGA rework station and an experienced tech to operate it. I would not go with hot air, as it's almost impossible to stay within the thermal profile of the chip when using hot air and the components in a cellphone are far too small and delicate for that method. Weigh your options wisely, as the number of times you can get away with re-heating the chip is very limited. Each try will use two of these valuable heating/cooling cycles, one to pull the chip up, and then one to seat it back on the (hopefully re-masked and re-balled) surface. On 01/06/2014 12:26 PM, Udi Finkelstein wrote: The N900, at least the ones I have, start falling apart sooner-or-later due to GSM chip BGA solders getting loose (like the red-ring-of-death on Xbox 360). The symptom is a yellow banner saying that all Telephony functions are disabled. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66870 I have 2 phones that suffers from this. One I got from a friend who couldn't get anyone to fix it (that was about 2 years ago, when the cause was still unknown. The shop claimed he played with alternate firmware, he went to court and lost). The other was mine, and it started about 3 months ago. I partially fixed it by placing pieces of paper below the battery, but the situation got worse and worse. Also my USB socket is dead, which is another common N900 symptom, but is more easily fixable. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:14:58AM +0200, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Depends on the OS and it's support but yes... (my n900 still has great support and if it wasn't falling apart as a result of severe abuse would still be using it, but that's also a much more open system, we'll see what happens with the Jolla now) The N900 is not really supported by its vendor. But there's a great community around it which has kept it supported. And if you've been living under a rock: see also http://neo900.org/ . Get a phone you can trust. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il | | best tzaf...@debian.org | | friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 01/06/2014 02:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Diego Iastrubni elc...@kde.org writes: A sound advice - if you don't see the device you want to buy on Cyanogen's list, don't buy it. In 2 years it will be useles if you cannot put newer software on it. Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... Functionality that did not exist or was not supported when you bought your device will not necessarily be backported to your device's original firmware or to the official updates thereof. This does not render the device useless, just potentially a bit less future-proof than others. [I cannot give a compelling example of such functionality, but I can imagine it might exist.] Enter signed software. The certificate expires and nobody cares to update the application and sign it again. The OS then refuses to launch it. Case in point with my perfectly hardware-wise functional Symbian Nokia phone. Since I don't believe I'm going to get a better service from either IOS or Android, I just don't buy a new phone. -- Michael ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 9:44 AM, Eli Marmor wrote: I want to overwrite the OS of Sony U by a MOD version of Android, without the garbage of Sony, but I am afraid to destroy the phone because of lack of experience in such upgrades; what do you recommend to do? And regarding the specific phone: Actually, it is not in the list of Cyanogen Mod; I understand that you don't recommend to use another distribution, but to give up; is that what you meant to say? Is this of any help? I found it with google, which unfortunately means that you may have too, or may never have seen it. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/526939/20131203/update-sony-xperia-u-android-4-kitkat.htm#.UspjcFsW0zI Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
Wow! Thank you very very much! Last time I checked was before Dec. 3, so I didn't see it. It helps a lot! But now I'm more afraid: 15 steps, badly written, some of them ambiguous, when any small mistake or misunderstanding, damages the phone... I'll have to re-consider it. Thanks again! On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:07 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/6/2014 9:44 AM, Eli Marmor wrote: I want to overwrite the OS of Sony U by a MOD version of Android, without the garbage of Sony, but I am afraid to destroy the phone because of lack of experience in such upgrades; what do you recommend to do? And regarding the specific phone: Actually, it is not in the list of Cyanogen Mod; I understand that you don't recommend to use another distribution, but to give up; is that what you meant to say? Is this of any help? I found it with google, which unfortunately means that you may have too, or may never have seen it. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/526939/20131203/ update-sony-xperia-u-android-4-kitkat.htm#.UspjcFsW0zI Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 10:39 AM, Eli Marmor wrote: Wow! Thank you very very much! You are welcome. Last time I checked was before Dec. 3, so I didn't see it. It helps a lot! But now I'm more afraid: 15 steps, badly written, some of them ambiguous, when any small mistake or misunderstanding, damages the phone... I'll have to re-consider it. At least now that you know it can be done safely, you can look for proper instructions. :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
2014/1/6 geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com: On 1/6/2014 2:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... If you're willing to use a device with outdated software containing known dangerous vulnerabilities, it almost like running an unpatched version of Windows then what you say is correct. Eventually apps stop working. Android is based on the idea that you buy an app from someone, and it automatically updates when new versions come out. Even apps that cost $0.00 (free). So an app developer can be reasonably sure that if he changes the protocol in version 1.3 that by version 1.5 he can drop the old protocol. Since most apps connect to a server for something, whether it be authentication, information shared or received or both, and so on, they just start to die of old age. The answer is to update them. And there lies the rub. For example, the big releases of Android were 2 and 4. Android 3, does not seem to exist in the wild as it were. I am sure it did at one time, and there were major changes between Android 2 and 3. So all Android 2 devices, almost all 2 year old cell phones, can no longer buy or update an app. Android 3 was tablet only, there are very few devices (motorola xoom is one) that run/ran it since the source was only released after Android 4 was released to prevent 3rd parties trying to stick it on a phone. Android 4 re-unified Androids 2 and 3. I laugh every time I see someone selling an Android 2 phone. The price they are asking will get you a similar set of hardware running Android 4 brand new. It also comes with a brand new battery, and since these phones need to be charged daily, a two year old phone has a battery with about 700 charge cycles on it, which means it may need to be replaced or if not now, soon. No manufacturer is updating their Android 2 phones to Android 4, however most Android 4.1/4.2 phones (Jellybean) are giving their owns the option to update to 4.4 (KitKat). There are some Android 2 phones that can be taken to 4 or the latest CM, but they are few in number. One of the big things of KitKat was lowering system requierments which should enable more older phones to upgrade to stock KitKat. So yes, the phones become less useful, and eventually no use at all. Depends on the OS and it's support but yes... (my n900 still has great support and if it wasn't falling apart as a result of severe abuse would still be using it, but that's also a much more open system, we'll see what happens with the Jolla now) Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:14:58AM +0200, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Depends on the OS and it's support but yes... (my n900 still has great support and if it wasn't falling apart as a result of severe abuse would still be using it, but that's also a much more open system, we'll see what happens with the Jolla now) The N900 is not really supported by its vendor. But there's a great community around it which has kept it supported. And if you've been living under a rock: see also http://neo900.org/ . Get a phone you can trust. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 11:14 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Depends on the OS and it's support but yes... (my n900 still has great support and if it wasn't falling apart as a result of severe abuse would still be using it, but that's also a much more open system, we'll see what happens with the Jolla now) Software age is IMHO far more relevant than you might think. For example, my 2000 vintage Motorola Timeport phone, with a new battery from eBay, still does what it was designed to do, which is be a telephone. But a smartphone is not designed to be a telephone, it is designed to be a handheld computer first, a cellular data terminal second and almost as an afterthought a telephone. It used to be that the leading edge of hardware and software development was fueled by gamers. They wanted more power, more facilities, and more efficiency, and were willing to pay for it to play their ever evolving games. These days, the leading edge (although currently it is a smaller blade) of software and hardware development is apps. People want more and better apps and they want them on more and better devices. Don't think just because they failed miserably to provide the same apps on phones and desktops that we have heard the last of Microsoft or their concept. Maybe they will figure out how to do it right, or someone else will. Eventually they will all merge and until they do, the need to constantly improve your hardware and software will keep pushing the leading edge farther and farther away. Bear in mind that users in the US, which is currently the largest smartphone market, do not actually buy cellphones. They buy a year or two year service contract which includes the hardware. When the contract is done, they move on to a new phone. So in order to attract customers to upgrade, the phones have to upgrade their apps and capabilities. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com writes: So all Android 2 devices, almost all 2 year old cell phones, can no longer buy or update an app. snip So yes, the phones become less useful, and eventually no use at all. I discern two patterns: 1. App is absolutely critical for me, way more important than making calls or looking up addresses (may be, on tablets). Hence, the device is literally useless without it. The app developers want to be as famous as Linus Torvalds (just trying to stay on topic here), but their way to imitate him is to mess up interfaces or protocols on occasion (they heard of kernel ABIs but thought of APIs), thus breaking client code and screwing up their user base without a second thought. Ergo, the original version of X no longer works and the earliest working version is not backported to the original firmware since the latter is deemed irrelevant to newer HW everyone has already blown a paycheck on. Bummer. 2. The device is a bloody phone with benefits. As such it is my primary means of communicating with others, and hence is a part of my life support infrastructure. I should not need to fiddle with it. I should do what I can to avoid fiddling with it. It should just keep working, I'd say at least for 5-6 years. [Just like any part of critical infrastucture, I might say. Hell, it's Linux-IL: people used to brag about uptimes here... ;-)] In practice, my Galaxy S is way older than 2 years. It suffered through one unintended upgrade. Something (I don't recall what) caused a serious problem and the solution was to reflash it, obviously with the firmware version current at the time. Thus it is on 2.3.3/Gingerbread now, and were it not for that reason it would still be on 2.1 or 2.2 or whatever the original version was. It is just as useful now, with everything working just as it did when I got it. Whenever I have a look at the newest shiny toy someone shows off I see zero noticeable difference with mine (not to say there are no differences, but apparently those are quite irrelevant to me since I don't notice them). I have not seen any compelling reason to upgrade yet, I want to avoid upgrades as long as I can, and I probably won't change anything in the next 2-3 years or until I encounter a HW problem. The phone nags incessantly about app upgrades, too (so much for claims they don't exist), mostly for stuff I never use. My pattern is very firmly #2. If yours is #1, fine. I might be curious about specific examples of functionality for which you absolutely must have the latest incompatible version to keep a device and not throw it away as useless. The curiosity is not just a sociological survey but a source of potential hints whose SW I should avoid in the future. The original statement didn't qualify anything though, thus I thought it was too harsh. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il writes: On 1/6/2014 2:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... If you're willing to use a device with outdated software containing known dangerous vulnerabilities, it almost like running an unpatched version of Windows then what you say is correct. We are not discussing past-EOL versions here, so the implicit assumption is that critical security updates are provided, without downgrading functionality. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
2014/1/6 Oleg Goldshmidt p...@goldshmidt.org: geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com writes: So all Android 2 devices, almost all 2 year old cell phones, can no longer buy or update an app. snip So yes, the phones become less useful, and eventually no use at all. I discern two patterns: 1. App is absolutely critical for me, way more important than making calls or looking up addresses (may be, on tablets). Hence, the device is literally useless without it. The app developers want to be as famous as Linus Torvalds (just trying to stay on topic here), but their way to imitate him is to mess up interfaces or protocols on occasion (they heard of kernel ABIs but thought of APIs), thus breaking client code and screwing up their user base without a second thought. Ergo, the original version of X no longer works and the earliest working version is not backported to the original firmware since the latter is deemed irrelevant to newer HW everyone has already blown a paycheck on. Bummer. 2. The device is a bloody phone with benefits. As such it is my primary means of communicating with others, and hence is a part of my life support infrastructure. I should not need to fiddle with it. I should do what I can to avoid fiddling with it. It should just keep working, I'd say at least for 5-6 years. [Just like any part of critical infrastucture, I might say. Hell, it's Linux-IL: people used to brag about uptimes here... ;-)] In practice, my Galaxy S is way older than 2 years. It suffered through one unintended upgrade. Something (I don't recall what) caused a serious problem and the solution was to reflash it, obviously with the firmware version current at the time. Thus it is on 2.3.3/Gingerbread now, and were it not for that reason it would still be on 2.1 or 2.2 or whatever the original version was. It is just as useful now, with everything working just as it did when I got it. Whenever I have a look at the newest shiny toy someone shows off I see zero noticeable difference with mine (not to say there are no differences, but apparently those are quite irrelevant to me since I don't notice them). I have not seen any compelling reason to upgrade yet, I want to avoid upgrades as long as I can, and I probably won't change anything in the next 2-3 years or until I encounter a HW problem. The phone nags incessantly about app upgrades, too (so much for claims they don't exist), mostly for stuff I never use. My pattern is very firmly #2. If yours is #1, fine. I might be curious about specific examples of functionality for which you absolutely must have the latest incompatible version to keep a device and not throw it away as useless. The curiosity is not just a sociological survey but a source of potential hints whose SW I should avoid in the future. The original statement didn't qualify anything though, thus I thought it was too harsh. Even if your pattern is #2 (I'm somewhere in between, I have never felt lacking for applications, but I mainly use the phone/browser and terminal and some wifi tools), you would still want your phone to be patched, after all if it is part of your life support infrastructure you don't want it to be unavailable at the most critical time due to a software flaw... -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 12:02 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: We are not discussing past-EOL versions here, so the implicit assumption is that critical security updates are provided, without downgrading functionality. But they are not. While very few companies are providing Android 4 upgrades for Android two phones, are any still upgrading Android 2? When was the last time your phone had an operating system patch or fix? Any problems or vulnerabilities that were there two years ago, are still there and are going to stay there. To comment on another post, do you know if those upgrades offered for apps would actually work on your phone, or the upgrade checker just sees a new version and offers it to you? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
The N900, at least the ones I have, start falling apart sooner-or-later due to GSM chip BGA solders getting loose (like the red-ring-of-death on Xbox 360). The symptom is a yellow banner saying that all Telephony functions are disabled. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66870 I have 2 phones that suffers from this. One I got from a friend who couldn't get anyone to fix it (that was about 2 years ago, when the cause was still unknown. The shop claimed he played with alternate firmware, he went to court and lost). The other was mine, and it started about 3 months ago. I partially fixed it by placing pieces of paper below the battery, but the situation got worse and worse. Also my USB socket is dead, which is another common N900 symptom, but is more easily fixable. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.ilwrote: On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:14:58AM +0200, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Depends on the OS and it's support but yes... (my n900 still has great support and if it wasn't falling apart as a result of severe abuse would still be using it, but that's also a much more open system, we'll see what happens with the Jolla now) The N900 is not really supported by its vendor. But there's a great community around it which has kept it supported. And if you've been living under a rock: see also http://neo900.org/ . Get a phone you can trust. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
2014/1/6 Oleg Goldshmidt p...@goldshmidt.org: E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il writes: On 1/6/2014 2:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... If you're willing to use a device with outdated software containing known dangerous vulnerabilities, it almost like running an unpatched version of Windows then what you say is correct. We are not discussing past-EOL versions here, so the implicit assumption is that critical security updates are provided, without downgrading functionality. Android 2 though still sold extensively is past EOL (except possibly 2.3.x, though IIRC with the release of 4.4 which supports lower specs the are likely to pull the plug if) And even if google still releases patches, how often do you get a firmware upgrade if you're not running stock? -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com writes: On 1/6/2014 12:02 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: We are not discussing past-EOL versions here, so the implicit assumption is that critical security updates are provided, without downgrading functionality. But they are not. While very few companies are providing Android 4 upgrades for Android two phones, are any still upgrading Android 2? When was the last time your phone had an operating system patch or fix? AFAIK, there is no indication (not that I check obsessively) that Gingerbread went the way of XP [chuckle]. You said yourself that you see 2.x devices being sold today. Personally, I know I am behind on the patchlevel, but upgrading is a MUCH bigger risk than any security concerns, given my experience and my usage pattern. To explain, when you look you find that many existing vulnerabilities (not all) exist assuming you install and run applications that exploit them. This is simply not very likely for me. Stuff where opening a specially crafted SMS pwns your phone is very rare indeed. To comment on another post, do you know if those upgrades offered for apps would actually work on your phone, or the upgrade checker just sees a new version and offers it to you? I have never had any problems with those apps that I cared to update. I have not noticed anything that would cause me to suspect that my phone is unsupported / past-EOL / anything. I don't actually *know*, but I don't think Google Play would offer me (or allow me to download/install) an update that would be incompatible with my firmware. I fully expect it to know the exact version better than I do. FWIW, at the moment I have 10 update notifications I have not looked at yet. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 12:56 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: AFAIK, there is no indication (not that I check obsessively) that Gingerbread went the way of XP [chuckle]. You said yourself that you see 2.x devices being sold today. Personally, I know I am behind on the patchlevel, but upgrading is a MUCH bigger risk than any security concerns, given my experience and my usage pattern. To explain, when you look you find that many existing vulnerabilities (not all) exist assuming you install and run applications that exploit them. This is simply not very likely for me. Stuff where opening a specially crafted SMS pwns your phone is very rare indeed. From what I can tell, they are all gone today. There were some available in June when I first looked at a phone, and BUG had only one model for sale at chanuka, when I looked again. You may find one using ZAP, but I doubt it is anything except NOS (new, old stock). Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
I don't know specifically about the Kaya (I almost got one and am glad that I didn't, because of this). Have a look at CynogenMod http://www.cyanogenmod.org/. The Kaya tablet is not officially supported, but it is, in theory, possible to install the mod on any Android device. Their wiki http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Main_Pageis very well maintained and full of useful information. Sorry I don't have anything more helpful On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 8:20 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: I have a Chinese Android tablet. It is a Kaya 10.1 inch tablet purchased from Office Depot. I can't find a website for Kaya, and Office Depot has closed, so tech support is as far as I can tell nonexistent. It's running Android 4.1, which just upgraded itself (no details on what was upgraded were given), but has no search for upgrades option. Is it possible to upgrade to a generic version of KitKat? One of the reasons I would like to update it is that the operating system is customized for the hardware. It has a regular type A USB port for OTG devices, but only has drivers for USB storage. I want to add bluetooth (keyboard, headset), USB headset and an SDR dongle. :-) If so how? Is there an English step by step tutorial? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
After trying to fix several cheep/Chinese tablets/phones for my family and friends, i took an oath to never buy a cheap Tablet/Phone ever - just because there is no support. What I can tell you from my experience with this kind of devices, is that you can't trust the name - use an application like Elixer to find all the information you can on the device hardware most of the time, the CPU will be a MediaTek cpu (a cheep one not the 8 core the made it to the news), (most of this Chinese devices are created the same way, and rebranded for who ever pay/distribute them) Then you need to Google and find a forum (not XDA) which talk about this device, and if you lucky some one else compiled a vanilla Android for it. from my experience i never was so lucky, because there are some drivers compatibles issues, and some times you need a custom kernel to boot a newer version of android on this devices. As for USB OTG and other devices, you probably will need to compile the modules (or find them online) and push then to the device manually, and then use the terminal to modprobe them. On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 8:20 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: I have a Chinese Android tablet. It is a Kaya 10.1 inch tablet purchased from Office Depot. I can't find a website for Kaya, and Office Depot has closed, so tech support is as far as I can tell nonexistent. It's running Android 4.1, which just upgraded itself (no details on what was upgraded were given), but has no search for upgrades option. Is it possible to upgrade to a generic version of KitKat? One of the reasons I would like to update it is that the operating system is customized for the hardware. It has a regular type A USB port for OTG devices, but only has drivers for USB storage. I want to add bluetooth (keyboard, headset), USB headset and an SDR dongle. :-) If so how? Is there an English step by step tutorial? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- *Rabin* ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 11:33:07AM +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote: After trying to fix several cheep/Chinese tablets/phones for my family and friends, i took an oath to never buy a cheap Tablet/Phone ever - just because there is no support. What I can tell you from my experience with this kind of devices, is that you can't trust the name - use an application like Elixer to find all the information you can on the device hardware most of the time, the CPU will be a MediaTek cpu (a cheep one not the 8 core the made it to the news), MediaTek is not the only one of those. /proc/cpuinfo can give some initial hints. (most of this Chinese devices are created the same way, and rebranded for who ever pay/distribute them) Then you need to Google and find a forum (not XDA) which talk about this device, and if you lucky some one else compiled a vanilla Android for it. from my experience i never was so lucky, because there are some drivers compatibles issues, and some times you need a custom kernel to boot a newer version of android on this devices. I wonder if propr Linux support is easier to find. At least for some of those. Some of them (AllInWonder, though not MediaTek) have been hitting mainline recently. As for USB OTG and other devices, you probably will need to compile the modules (or find them online) and push then to the device manually, and then use the terminal to modprobe them. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
By the way (off topic): Does anybody have any experience with generic Android versions? (such as CyanogenMod, which Mord mentioned) We have, in the family, a Sony U which the last Sony Android upgrade screwed it up, and I want to return it to life by installing a generic Android under it. I'm afraid that if I'm doing it with no previous experience, it will destroy the phone. Can anybody help me? Thanks! On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Mord Behar mord...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know specifically about the Kaya (I almost got one and am glad that I didn't, because of this). Have a look at CynogenMod http://www.cyanogenmod.org/. The Kaya tablet is not officially supported, but it is, in theory, possible to install the mod on any Android device. Their wiki http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Main_Pageis very well maintained and full of useful information. Sorry I don't have anything more helpful On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 8:20 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: I have a Chinese Android tablet. It is a Kaya 10.1 inch tablet purchased from Office Depot. I can't find a website for Kaya, and Office Depot has closed, so tech support is as far as I can tell nonexistent. It's running Android 4.1, which just upgraded itself (no details on what was upgraded were given), but has no search for upgrades option. Is it possible to upgrade to a generic version of KitKat? One of the reasons I would like to update it is that the operating system is customized for the hardware. It has a regular type A USB port for OTG devices, but only has drivers for USB storage. I want to add bluetooth (keyboard, headset), USB headset and an SDR dongle. :-) If so how? Is there an English step by step tutorial? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
Hi Tzafrir,
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 10:21:14AM +0100, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
I wonder if propr Linux support is easier to find. At least for some of
those. Some of them (AllInWonder, though not MediaTek) have been hitting
mainline recently.
You probably mean Allwinner SoCs. These are called sunxi in the kernel
source (after the core generation names: sun3i, sun4i, sun5i, sun6i, sun7i).
baruch
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Re: Chinese KitKat
On 01/05/2014 12:22 PM, Eli Marmor wrote: By the way (off topic): Does anybody have any experience with generic Android versions? (such as CyanogenMod, which Mord mentioned) There is not such thing as a generic android version. The amount of propietary crap available on Android devices make it impossible to run it from free software. As the drivers are user space, there is usually no ABI problem and thus modders just port them to the stock image. The kernel is always modified, and usually not released (yes, screw GPL). The bootloaders are sealed. Even if you manage to get this working - Android is your best pal. Using Desktop Linux apps is a pure dog's shite on touch screen. A sound advice - if you don't see the device you want to buy on Cyanogen's list, don't buy it. In 2 years it will be useles if you cannot put newer software on it. This is from someone who has a GalaxyS1 which is running Cyanogenmod from git, and a Transformer that is running stock (since the support for it sux balls). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
Diego Iastrubni elc...@kde.org writes: A sound advice - if you don't see the device you want to buy on Cyanogen's list, don't buy it. In 2 years it will be useles if you cannot put newer software on it. Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... Functionality that did not exist or was not supported when you bought your device will not necessarily be backported to your device's original firmware or to the official updates thereof. This does not render the device useless, just potentially a bit less future-proof than others. [I cannot give a compelling example of such functionality, but I can imagine it might exist.] -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 2:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... Eventually apps stop working. Android is based on the idea that you buy an app from someone, and it automatically updates when new versions come out. Even apps that cost $0.00 (free). So an app developer can be reasonably sure that if he changes the protocol in version 1.3 that by version 1.5 he can drop the old protocol. Since most apps connect to a server for something, whether it be authentication, information shared or received or both, and so on, they just start to die of old age. The answer is to update them. And there lies the rub. For example, the big releases of Android were 2 and 4. Android 3, does not seem to exist in the wild as it were. I am sure it did at one time, and there were major changes between Android 2 and 3. So all Android 2 devices, almost all 2 year old cell phones, can no longer buy or update an app. I laugh every time I see someone selling an Android 2 phone. The price they are asking will get you a similar set of hardware running Android 4 brand new. It also comes with a brand new battery, and since these phones need to be charged daily, a two year old phone has a battery with about 700 charge cycles on it, which means it may need to be replaced or if not now, soon. No manufacturer is updating their Android 2 phones to Android 4, however most Android 4.1/4.2 phones (Jellybean) are giving their owns the option to update to 4.4 (KitKat). So yes, the phones become less useful, and eventually no use at all. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
IIRC Android 3 was a tablet only version and the various sub-versions of 2 were/are for phones. That's probably the reason 3 has disappeared, since all the tablet specific stuff was merged into 4. As for apps dying, I agree with Geoffrey, but I would also add that even an app that doesn't connect to anything eventually stops working on an older phone/tablet for the simple reason that the apps become more and more bloated as features (often useless ones) are added so the same group of apps that ran fine on my Galaxy S a couple of years ago eventually choked the phone and I had to decide if I wanted to delete half the apps or get a new phone. And BTW, the fact that my Galaxy S (originally Android 2.2) was running CyanogenMod (equivalent to 4.*) didn't solve the problem. On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 04:07:03 +0200 geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/6/2014 2:26 AM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Sounds a bit harsh. A device cannot possibly become less useful with time than it was when you bought it (barring a HW malfunction). If it did then what it says on the tin it will still do it now, won't it? Without any new software... Eventually apps stop working. Android is based on the idea that you buy an app from someone, and it automatically updates when new versions come out. Even apps that cost $0.00 (free). So an app developer can be reasonably sure that if he changes the protocol in version 1.3 that by version 1.5 he can drop the old protocol. Since most apps connect to a server for something, whether it be authentication, information shared or received or both, and so on, they just start to die of old age. The answer is to update them. And there lies the rub. For example, the big releases of Android were 2 and 4. Android 3, does not seem to exist in the wild as it were. I am sure it did at one time, and there were major changes between Android 2 and 3. So all Android 2 devices, almost all 2 year old cell phones, can no longer buy or update an app. I laugh every time I see someone selling an Android 2 phone. The price they are asking will get you a similar set of hardware running Android 4 brand new. It also comes with a brand new battery, and since these phones need to be charged daily, a two year old phone has a battery with about 700 charge cycles on it, which means it may need to be replaced or if not now, soon. No manufacturer is updating their Android 2 phones to Android 4, however most Android 4.1/4.2 phones (Jellybean) are giving their owns the option to update to 4.4 (KitKat). So yes, the phones become less useful, and eventually no use at all. Geoff. -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.5 - LINUX Mageia 3 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:07 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: No manufacturer is updating their Android 2 phones to Android 4, however most Android 4.1/4.2 phones (Jellybean) are giving their owns the option to update to 4.4 (KitKat). That is an interesting claim; Given that my Galaxy S2, originally running 2.3.4 (Gingerbread), now runs 4.1.2 (Jellybean) with a *stock* ROM from the manufacturer... -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 6:45 AM, shimi wrote: That is an interesting claim; Given that my Galaxy S2, originally running 2.3.4 (Gingerbread), now runs 4.1.2 (Jellybean) with a *stock* ROM from the manufacturer... There are exceptions to every rule, and anyone, myself included who does not say almost, or many, etc, will on occasion be proved wrong. So more properly said MOST manufacturers are not going to provide an upgrade from Android 2 to Android 4 for their phones. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
On 1/6/2014 6:37 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote: IIRC Android 3 was a tablet only version and the various sub-versions of 2 were/are for phones. That's probably the reason 3 has disappeared, since all the tablet specific stuff was merged into 4. Thanks, that explains it. I was wondering what happened. :-) As for apps dying, I agree with Geoffrey, but I would also add that even an app that doesn't connect to anything eventually stops working on an older phone/tablet for the simple reason that the apps become more and more bloated as features (often useless ones) are added so the same group of apps that ran fine on my Galaxy S a couple of years ago eventually choked the phone and I had to decide if I wanted to delete half the apps or get a new phone. When my younger sons got smartphones, we were looking around for something cheap. The phones that ran Android 2 in our price range all had 800mHz (most 512mHz) or less CPUs, 1gigabyte of ROM and 384meg of RAM. The same phones (often only 100 NIS more) in the improved, LG calls them the II (roman numeral two), versions had a 1gHz CPU, 4g ROM and 512meg of RAM, enough to make a difference in performance and the number of apps you can have running. So buying the II version was definitely worth it, and the older phones are basically museum pieces, where you can see what people did with smart phones two years ago. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Chinese KitKat
Thank you for your answer! Of course, I know that each device has its own version of Android, and the word generic was an unsuccessful wording; What I meant to say is the original Android from Google, without all the garbage of Samsung/Sony/LG/whatever. So I'll try to repeat my answer: I want to overwrite the OS of Sony U by a MOD version of Android, without the garbage of Sony, but I am afraid to destroy the phone because of lack of experience in such upgrades; what do you recommend to do? And regarding the specific phone: Actually, it is not in the list of Cyanogen Mod; I understand that you don't recommend to use another distribution, but to give up; is that what you meant to say? Thanks again! On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Diego Iastrubni elc...@kde.org wrote: On 01/05/2014 12:22 PM, Eli Marmor wrote: By the way (off topic): Does anybody have any experience with generic Android versions? (such as CyanogenMod, which Mord mentioned) There is not such thing as a generic android version. The amount of propietary crap available on Android devices make it impossible to run it from free software. As the drivers are user space, there is usually no ABI problem and thus modders just port them to the stock image. The kernel is always modified, and usually not released (yes, screw GPL). The bootloaders are sealed. Even if you manage to get this working - Android is your best pal. Using Desktop Linux apps is a pure dog's shite on touch screen. A sound advice - if you don't see the device you want to buy on Cyanogen's list, don't buy it. In 2 years it will be useles if you cannot put newer software on it. This is from someone who has a GalaxyS1 which is running Cyanogenmod from git, and a Transformer that is running stock (since the support for it sux balls). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Chinese KitKat
I have a Chinese Android tablet. It is a Kaya 10.1 inch tablet purchased from Office Depot. I can't find a website for Kaya, and Office Depot has closed, so tech support is as far as I can tell nonexistent. It's running Android 4.1, which just upgraded itself (no details on what was upgraded were given), but has no search for upgrades option. Is it possible to upgrade to a generic version of KitKat? One of the reasons I would like to update it is that the operating system is customized for the hardware. It has a regular type A USB port for OTG devices, but only has drivers for USB storage. I want to add bluetooth (keyboard, headset), USB headset and an SDR dongle. :-) If so how? Is there an English step by step tutorial? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ Jerusalem Israel. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
