Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
2009/10/15 Andrew Kaplan :
> NGN is simply FTTC (Fiber to the Curb). At the curb, they put in a DSLAM
> that converts the fiber to ADSL2+ or VDSL. ADSL2+ is already active on 8mb
> connections; most of the modems they have been passing out in the last few
> years are ADSL2+ compatible. ADSL2+ has a maximum of 24mb down / 1.4mb up
> (theoretically in ideal line conditions). Since they can't guarantee perfect
> line conditions (and upload is more sensitive to attenuation), they cap it
> at 800mb up. Eventually, when they want to go above these limits to their
> "up to 50mb download speeds" they are advertising, you will have to change
> out your modem for VDSL or VDSL2. VDSL modems can handle up to 100mb
> upstream as well, so that will be when you see better upload performance.
BTW In Australia ADSL2+ is pretty standard in the urban areas ("the
bush" is a completely different story), with large caveats about
"distance from exchange".
Annex M is claimed to increase ADSL2+ upload speed to 2Mb/sec,
becoming more and more wide-spread.
For a symmetrical link at our office we use SHDSL, have 3M/3M now, can
upgrade to 4M/4M at a small extra cost.
--Amos
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RE: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
NGN is simply FTTC (Fiber to the Curb). At the curb, they put in a DSLAM that converts the fiber to ADSL2+ or VDSL. ADSL2+ is already active on 8mb connections; most of the modems they have been passing out in the last few years are ADSL2+ compatible. ADSL2+ has a maximum of 24mb down / 1.4mb up (theoretically in ideal line conditions). Since they can't guarantee perfect line conditions (and upload is more sensitive to attenuation), they cap it at 800mb up. Eventually, when they want to go above these limits to their "up to 50mb download speeds" they are advertising, you will have to change out your modem for VDSL or VDSL2. VDSL modems can handle up to 100mb upstream as well, so that will be when you see better upload performance. From: linux-il-boun...@cs.huji.ac.il [mailto:linux-il-boun...@cs.huji.ac.il] On Behalf Of shimi Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:53 PM To: Noam Rathaus Cc: Geoff Shang; IGLU Mailing list Subject: Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad? 2009/10/14 Noam Rathaus mailto:no...@beyondsecurity.com>> NGN as I understand is mainly for Symetric non-ADSL type solutions - i.e. fiber and SDSL Not only they have no Symmetric packages offered on their website for the NGN world, all their Asymmetric packages still have ridiculous upstream bandwidth as ever. For example 30Mbit/s down with... 1Mbit/s up. Sometimes I even wonder if this upstream is fast enough to sustain all the TCP ACKs for a 30Mbit/s download :( Of course, I doubt this is an NGN limitation. If we would have a FiOS[1] equivalent bandwidth, like 50Mbit/s down and 20Mbit/s up... how could they sell a lousy 2Mbit/s up/down E1 for thousands of shekels every month? -- Shimi [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
Hi, The NGN site is promotional information and has no relevance to the hardware/equipment so I would take any information written there as promotional and nothing more I don't know about whether or not 3/1000 will even work, but if someone gets that and tries to use that for uploading he will be "shocked" to find out you can't get both at the same time On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:53 PM, shimi wrote: > > 2009/10/14 Noam Rathaus > >> NGN as I understand is mainly for Symetric non-ADSL type solutions - i.e. >> fiber and SDSL >> > > Not only they have no Symmetric packages offered on their website for the > NGN world, all their Asymmetric packages still have ridiculous upstream > bandwidth as ever. For example 30Mbit/s down with... 1Mbit/s up. Sometimes I > even wonder if this upstream is fast enough to sustain all the TCP ACKs for > a 30Mbit/s download :( > > Of course, I doubt this is an NGN limitation. If we would have a FiOS[1] > equivalent bandwidth, like 50Mbit/s down and 20Mbit/s up... how could they > sell a lousy 2Mbit/s up/down E1 for thousands of shekels every month? > > -- Shimi > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS > ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
2009/10/14 Noam Rathaus > NGN as I understand is mainly for Symetric non-ADSL type solutions - i.e. > fiber and SDSL > Not only they have no Symmetric packages offered on their website for the NGN world, all their Asymmetric packages still have ridiculous upstream bandwidth as ever. For example 30Mbit/s down with... 1Mbit/s up. Sometimes I even wonder if this upstream is fast enough to sustain all the TCP ACKs for a 30Mbit/s download :( Of course, I doubt this is an NGN limitation. If we would have a FiOS[1] equivalent bandwidth, like 50Mbit/s down and 20Mbit/s up... how could they sell a lousy 2Mbit/s up/down E1 for thousands of shekels every month? -- Shimi [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
NGN as I understand is mainly for Symetric non-ADSL type solutions - i.e. fiber and SDSL Meaning that 8000/800 is probably still in the ADSL area.. but I might be wrong On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Geoff Shang wrote: > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Ira Abramov wrote: > > my fellow sysadmins - Nezeq just called one of my client offering an >> upgrade from 5000/500 to NGN 1/800. They say it only takes a sec as >> their router is compatible. Is it stable and safe by now? should one >> make the switch? >> > > We recently upgraded from 5000/500 to 8000/800. I don't know if we're > using this NGN thing, but the line did have to go down for a little while > while they made the change. Is there any way I can tell whether or not > we're using NGN, short of calling them to ask? > > In the case that we are using it, it's been just as solid as the 5000/500 > connection we ad previously (i.e. pretty solid). > > The change was a couple of months ago. > > Not sure how often we get the full down, but it's definitely made a > difference in the outgoing trafic throughput. > > Geoff. > > > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Ira Abramov wrote: my fellow sysadmins - Nezeq just called one of my client offering an upgrade from 5000/500 to NGN 1/800. They say it only takes a sec as their router is compatible. Is it stable and safe by now? should one make the switch? We recently upgraded from 5000/500 to 8000/800. I don't know if we're using this NGN thing, but the line did have to go down for a little while while they made the change. Is there any way I can tell whether or not we're using NGN, short of calling them to ask? In the case that we are using it, it's been just as solid as the 5000/500 connection we ad previously (i.e. pretty solid). The change was a couple of months ago. Not sure how often we get the full down, but it's definitely made a difference in the outgoing trafic throughput. Geoff. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
hi Ira, We recently switched from 2mb/0.5mb to 2mb/2mb everything was promised to run smoothly, but in effect after the upgrade they found out that there was noise on the line and they had to connnect an additional two wires to get it to work After 3 hours I asked to stop the upgrade and put us back on the old hardware, they said it was too late as they already "upgraded" us, and were now fixing the issue. It took them an additional 7 hours to get everything to work So my experince is that they want it to go smoothly, but expect it to not, as it didn't with us. On Wednesday 14 October 2009 13:42:47 Ira Abramov wrote: > my fellow sysadmins - Nezeq just called one of my client offering an > upgrade from 5000/500 to NGN 1/800. They say it only takes a sec as > their router is compatible. Is it stable and safe by now? should one > make the switch? > > Offlist replies appreciated, though I thought it may be of interested to > others, based on past experience :-) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Ira Abramov wrote: my fellow sysadmins - Nezeq just called one of my client offering an upgrade from 5000/500 to NGN 1/800. They say it only takes a sec as their router is compatible. Is it stable and safe by now? should one make the switch? If it only takes a second, they already have it. Sometime in the past, when they were not looking, BEZEQ changed their connection to NGN, but left the old speed settings. Unless there is some hidden instability in the router, it should be exactly the same, except occasionaly faster. What I have found having two lines, one aDSL, one HOT with two different ISP's is that the download/upload speeds outside of Israel are influeneced by more factors than just connection speed. With a few exceptions, they both seem to connect to the same sites at the same throughput. What is limited by the line speed is the agregate speed. I may be able to get 150k bytes per second from one site at a particular time of day, but I can get two connections to two diffferent sites on the 2.5m line and four on the 5m. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [off] Bezeq NGN - good or bad?
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Ira Abramov wrote: > my fellow sysadmins - Nezeq just called one of my client offering an > upgrade from 5000/500 to NGN 1/800. They say it only takes a sec as > their router is compatible. Is it stable and safe by now? should one > make the switch? > > Offlist replies appreciated, though I thought it may be of interested to AFAIK, once you're "upgradable by a click" to NGN, technically you already "sit" on an NGN fiber, i.e. the other end of your DSL line is the "NGN box" which now provides DSL/POTS over Bezeq's IP network [this is based on official press releases]. Hence, you're already using NGN (did you notice a prolonged loss of DSL line a while back? that was the conversion) - it's merely a bandwidth upgrade. Assuming the SnR between you and the new box is OK, higher bandwidth should not be a problem. Can your ISP supply the demand, especially to traffic outside the borders of Israel? Good question. HTH, -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
