Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-25 Thread Matan Ziv-Av
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Ira Abramov wrote:

> Quoting Matan Ziv-Av, from the post of Wed, 24 Nov:
> 
> > Logging to an account does not work in Mozilla or Firefox on Leumi. They 
> > have a workaround of using the old interface, but it is too limited.
> 
> Is it enough to look at my balance? that will do until I close my account
> there in march. All I knew was the hb.leumi site and that has been
> blocked. if you have the URL of the old site, DO let us know.

The URL I use is: https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html, it works in 
Mozilla versions 1.2, 1.6, 1.7.

This URL was mentioned a few times on this list.


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Re: תשובה: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-25 Thread Alon Altman
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Ira Abramov wrote:
Quoting Aviram Jenik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
On Thursday 28 October 2004 17:11, Yehuda Tzadik wrote:
Banks and government institutions must
according to the law to support all the
browsers.This does not include Bank
Hapoalim which is a private bank.
So what this banks do is against the
law.
Someone who has the money and time
can submit a "Bagatz" against them.
If somebody volunteers to organize it (=take care of the "time" part) I'm
willing to help raise the required sum (=take care of the "money" part).
is this not the kind of things that Hamakor was founded for? :-)
  We can take care of the "money" part if someone will be willing to take
care of the "time" part. I'm CCing Hamakor's board and discussion lists, and
I suggest we try and forumlate a message to Haim Ravia, asking him to help
us with this.
  Alon
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting Matan Ziv-Av, from the post of Wed, 24 Nov:
> 
> Logging to an account does not work in Mozilla or Firefox on Leumi. They 
> have a workaround of using the old interface, but it is too limited.

Is it enough to look at my balance? that will do until I close my account
there in march. All I knew was the hb.leumi site and that has been
blocked. if you have the URL of the old site, DO let us know.

> As an aside, The site does work in Konqueror 3.3 (at least the one in 
> FC3).

interesting. I'll try that.

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Ira Abramov
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Matan Ziv-Av
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Ira Abramov wrote:

> Quoting Hetz Ben Hamo, from the post of Wed, 24 Nov:
> > Doing a quick check I can see that (tested with firefox 1.0, Win XP, under 
> > QEMU)
> > 
> > * www.bankleumi.co.il (Bank Leumi) - works with firefox 
> > * www.yashir1.co.il (Hayashir Harishon) - works with firefox
> 
> you tried all the functions, including logging in to the web interfaces
> from customers? displaying the front page is not big deal. let's see you
> trying to search for branches, logging in to see an account report, etc.

Logging to an account does not work in Mozilla or Firefox on Leumi. They 
have a workaround of using the old interface, but it is too limited.

As an aside, The site does work in Konqueror 3.3 (at least the one in 
FC3).


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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Danny Lieberman
sorry to disappoint y'all but www.yashir1.co.il does NOT work
with Firefox 1.0 - and it seems to be a JavaScript issue when you click on
the submit button
in the login screen.

if it makes anyone feel any better - fwiw - IE6 with the latest security
updates from Microsoft
doesnt work for www.umb.co.il either.


:-{)

danny
- Original Message -
From: "Ira Abramov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "IGLU Mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.


> Quoting Hetz Ben Hamo, from the post of Wed, 24 Nov:
> > Doing a quick check I can see that (tested with firefox 1.0, Win XP,
under QEMU)
> >
> > * www.bankleumi.co.il (Bank Leumi) - works with firefox
> > * www.yashir1.co.il (Hayashir Harishon) - works with firefox
>
> you tried all the functions, including logging in to the web interfaces
> from customers? displaying the front page is not big deal. let's see you
> trying to search for branches, logging in to see an account report, etc.
>
> --
> Not that innocent
> Ira Abramov
> http://ira.abramov.org/email/
>
> =
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting Hetz Ben Hamo, from the post of Wed, 24 Nov:
> Doing a quick check I can see that (tested with firefox 1.0, Win XP, under 
> QEMU)
> 
> * www.bankleumi.co.il (Bank Leumi) - works with firefox 
> * www.yashir1.co.il (Hayashir Harishon) - works with firefox

you tried all the functions, including logging in to the web interfaces
from customers? displaying the front page is not big deal. let's see you
trying to search for branches, logging in to see an account report, etc.

-- 
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Ira Abramov
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Hetz Ben Hamo
Doing a quick check I can see that (tested with firefox 1.0, Win XP, under QEMU)

* www.bankleumi.co.il (Bank Leumi) - works with firefox 
* www.bankhapoalim.co.il - (Bank Hapoalim) works with firefox
(although after login you'll need to do a refresh once or else the
menus will be in reverse letters)
* www.discountbank.net - (Bank Discount) no login with other then IE,
even when doing some UserAgent spoofing tricks..
* www.fibi.co.il (First International bank) - works with firefox
* www.yashir1.co.il (Hayashir Harishon) - works with firefox

Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Hetz

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:30:54 +0200, Ira Abramov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Nadav Har'El, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> >
> > Anyway, BLL does work now on Mozilla, at least the one I run (1.4.2):
> > check out https://hb.leumi.co.il/
> >
> 
> Guess what? :-(
> 
> --
> Stranger in paradise
> Ira Abramov
> http://ira.abramov.org/email/
> 
> =
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-11-24 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting Nadav Har'El, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> 
> Anyway, BLL does work now on Mozilla, at least the one I run (1.4.2):
> check out https://hb.leumi.co.il/
> 

Guess what? :-(

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Re: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Shaul Karl
On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 05:11:59PM +0200, Yehuda Tzadik wrote:

> Banks and government institutions must according to the law support
> all the browsers.
> 


  Any references or pointers for that? Which law?

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Eli Kara

>
> So unless someone high enough in a bank that is *above* the Internet group
> cares about you (and I guess I'm not *that* valuable a customer), you're
> out of luck.
>

You're probably right I guess. But, it might be interesting to see the law 
itself regarding this. I wonder where I can find it...

-- 
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Beyond Security Ltd.

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http://www.securiteam.com/

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Nadav Har'El
On Thu, Oct 28, 2004, ik wrote about "Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.":
> I wonder ... Most Open Source people, have a hi-tech position.
> Hi-Tech consider to be one of the biggist income of the market...
> Isn't there a way to make banks to support non IE products with just the pressure of 
> "Open Source people will be recommended to
> work only with banks that does support Mozilla etc..." and to apply it also to 
> business as well ?

No. Just like any (too) big business, the people with the incentives to
preserve you as a customer, and people which have to act are different people.

Several months ago, I went to my banker at Bank Leumi and told her that unless
their site returns to work on Linux (it does now, by the way), I will be
forced to find a different bank. She was upset, and said they value my business
but she personally never even heard of Linux (she asked if it's a type of
computer, and then asked me what "Internet Explorer" or even a "Browser" was).
All she could offer is that I call the BLL Internet people, right from her
desk. We did, and all those guys did was basically say "Yes, we don't
support Linux, and we have no plans to even if it's just trivial fixes -
we simply don't care about you people". My banker simply couldn't do anything
about the situation. She said if it was about commissions, about investment
plans, the stock market, or anything about this sort - she could help me,
but she's both completely uneducated in computing, and powerless to help me
in these areas.

So unless someone high enough in a bank that is *above* the Internet group
cares about you (and I guess I'm not *that* valuable a customer), you're out
of luck.

Anyway, BLL does work now on Mozilla, at least the one I run (1.4.2):
check out https://hb.leumi.co.il/

-- 
Nadav Har'El|   Thursday, Oct 28 2004, 14 Heshvan 5765
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Re: תשובה: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting Aviram Jenik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> On Thursday 28 October 2004 17:11, Yehuda Tzadik wrote:
> > Banks and government institutions must
> > according to the law to support all the
> > browsers.This does not include Bank
> > Hapoalim which is a private bank.
> > So what this banks do is against the
> > law.
> >
> > Someone who has the money and time
> > can submit a "Bagatz" against them.
> 
> If somebody volunteers to organize it (=take care of the "time" part) I'm 
> willing to help raise the required sum (=take care of the "money" part).

is this not the kind of things that Hamakor was founded for? :-)

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Re: ×××××: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Aviram Jenik
On Thursday 28 October 2004 17:11, Yehuda Tzadik wrote:
> Banks and government institutions must
> according to the law to support all the
> browsers.This does not include Bank
> Hapoalim which is a private bank.
> So what this banks do is against the
> law.
>
> Someone who has the money and time
> can submit a "Bagatz" against them.

If somebody volunteers to organize it (=take care of the "time" part) I'm 
willing to help raise the required sum (=take care of the "money" part).

- Aviram

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> Now I'm starting to worry about you...

thank you, mom.

this is off topic, and no, I'm not interested in continueing off list on
this either.



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Ira Abramov
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread amos
Shaul Karl wrote:
On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 01:07:27PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I always point out when this subject comes up - FIBI
(First International Bank) have 100% support for Firefox

  Does that include their help desk?
Can't remember when I called them last time but as far as I
remember I reported to them about problems and suggestion for
improvements and pointed out that I use Mozilla on Linux and
they took notice of my input and corrected things.
(the gain/loss percentage in their Niyarot Erekh page was my
idea).
--Amos
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread ik
On Thursday 28 October 2004 16:40, Ira Abramov wrote:
> Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> > 
> > But think about it seriously for a second... we as customers have
> > allot more power then we think we have...  You yourself wants to move
> > to a "better" bank... Thats a consumer decision for the same reason I
> > written, but less sarcastic.. :)
> 
> Look, ik. if you think I am noving to a different bank because of the
> silly web interface you need to get some serious clues about life and
> realism. Bank Leumi has been a real pain in the ass, causing me actual
> loss of money, counted in four digits. this is not an emotional
> decision, it's a very earthly financial decision.
> 
> the browser compatibility plays a small role in choosing a new bank, but
> it's just a very small parameter.
> 
Now I'm starting to worry about you...
Unless I'm not clear (well I have lots of this moments), I know that choosing a bank 
will be for money purpose only...
But you didn't understand the point... The point was that you as a customer can make a 
difference in the attitude of the bank
to your platforms and uses...
If you just say "OK the bank does not support mozilla I can live with that..", then 
it's your fault they do not use it. Because you do
tell them to.
And it has nothing to do in moving to a new bank.. just a point of making some 
customer pressure for a supplier of some kind to
respect and support your choice of tools for using his product.

I hope that is more clear.. :)

Ido
-- 
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that one learns," and, in reply: "it is *only* by amusing oneself that
one can learn."
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Shaul Karl
On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 01:07:27PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Ira Abramov wrote:
> >
> >Bank Hapo'alim is NOT an option either.
> 
> Just for the technical aspect - as far as I'm aware they
> support Gecko pretty well.
> 
> >
> >can anyone tel me what nice small personal-touch banks have
> >Mozilla-compliant web access? if you feel this is off topic, please 
> >feel
> >free to answer off-list.
> 
> As I always point out when this subject comes up - FIBI
> (First International Bank) have 100% support for Firefox


  Does that include their help desk?

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×××××: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Yehuda Tzadik
Hi all
Banks and government institutions must
according to the law to support all the 
browsers.This does not include Bank
Hapoalim which is a private bank.So what this banks do is against the
law.
Someone who has the money and time
can submit a "Bagatz" against them.
Regards
Yehuda Zadik 4530938-054 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- × ×× -
×××: Ira Abramov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
×: ××× ×', ××× 28, 2004 16:40
××××: Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

> Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct: > > > > But think about it seriously for a second... we as customers have > > allot more power then we think we have... You yourself wants to > move> to a "better" bank... Thats a consumer decision for the same > reason I > > written, but less sarcastic.. :) > > Look, ik. if you think I am noving to a different bank because of the > silly web interface you need to get some serious clues about life and > realism. Bank Leumi has been a real pain in the ass, causing me actual > loss of money, counted in four digits. this is not an emotional > decision, it's a very earthly financial decision. > > the browser compatibility plays a small role in choosing a new > bank, but > it's just a very small parameter. > > -- > The gift that keeps on giving > Ira Abramov 
> http://ira.abramov.org/email/ > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 


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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> 
> But think about it seriously for a second... we as customers have
> allot more power then we think we have...  You yourself wants to move
> to a "better" bank... Thats a consumer decision for the same reason I
> written, but less sarcastic.. :)

Look, ik. if you think I am noving to a different bank because of the
silly web interface you need to get some serious clues about life and
realism. Bank Leumi has been a real pain in the ass, causing me actual
loss of money, counted in four digits. this is not an emotional
decision, it's a very earthly financial decision.

the browser compatibility plays a small role in choosing a new bank, but
it's just a very small parameter.

-- 
The gift that keeps on giving
Ira Abramov
http://ira.abramov.org/email/

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Herouth Maoz
Quoting ik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> But think about it seriously for a second... we as customers have allot more
> power then we think we have...
> You yourself wants to move to a "better" bank... Thats a consumer decision
> for the same reason I written, but less sarcastic.. :)

While you're on the barricades, add the Macintosh people to your red brigades...
Another thousand people who are frustrated by the banks - and yet can afford an
18,000 NIS computer.

I belong to both communities, and I keep shouting at people to cooperate. There
is a common interest here. Hello, anybody?

By the way, I'm a happy FIBI customer.

Herouth

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread ik
On Thursday 28 October 2004 15:13, Ira Abramov wrote:
> Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> > I wonder ... Most Open Source people, have a hi-tech position.
> 
> Are you sure? based on what? for instance I'm an "open source person" by
> some definitions and I'm not in Hightech.
Thats why I Said most :)
> 
> > Hi-Tech consider to be one of the biggist income of the market...
> 
> true that. I miss my hightech days...
So you are a type of  just in "retirement" ;)
> 
> > Isn't there a way to make banks to support non IE products with just
> > the pressure of "Open Source people will be recommended to work only
> > with banks that does support Mozilla etc..." and to apply it also to
> > business as well ?
> 
> let's see...
> 
> I believe that under the odd category of "open course people" fall about
> 2000-4000 people in Israel. maybe about 100 of those are actually
> reading what hamakor's members have to say, of those about half are
> still in highscool or the army and the word "income" makes their mouths
> water, of the other half not all of us are make huge salaries either.
You don't need an high income, but people that enter money once a month to their 
account...
> 
> so you get an item in the paper. "40 angry spoiled hightech people want
> the banks to support web standards or they will close their accounts!".
> this will undoubtedly lead to a wide manhunt and massive firings at
> Bank Israel for not putting the squeeze on the banks in the matter, a
> parlament discussion will arise and change legislation as well. at the
> final throws of complete chaos and near-bloodshed, Ido is elected prime
> minister and makes XHTML the new government-enforced mode of electronic
> communication, a whole hacker subculture of illegal XHTML2HTML apps
> floods the IRC channels. the end.
I like the thought of "Ido is elected prime minister and makes XHTML the new 
government-enforced mode of electronic
communication, a whole hacker subculture of illegal XHTML2HTML apps floods the IRC 
channels. the end." but I'm not a poletition ;)

But think about it seriously for a second... we as customers have allot more power 
then we think we have...
You yourself wants to move to a "better" bank... Thats a consumer decision for the 
same reason I written, but less sarcastic.. :)
 
Ido
-- 
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Alon Altman
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Ira Abramov wrote:
My levels of frustration from Bank Leumi broke the last back of the last
camel today. I'm going to search for a new bank with lower commisions
and more personal attitude.
Bank Hapo'alim is NOT an option either.
can anyone tel me what nice small personal-touch banks have
Mozilla-compliant web access? if you feel this is off topic, please feel
free to answer off-list.
  You can also use poalim-affiliated banks such as Bank Otsar Hahayal, Bank
Massad, and Bank Jerusalem.
  Alon
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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread Ira Abramov
Quoting ik, from the post of Thu, 28 Oct:
> I wonder ... Most Open Source people, have a hi-tech position.

Are you sure? based on what? for instance I'm an "open source person" by
some definitions and I'm not in Hightech.

> Hi-Tech consider to be one of the biggist income of the market...

true that. I miss my hightech days...

> Isn't there a way to make banks to support non IE products with just
> the pressure of "Open Source people will be recommended to work only
> with banks that does support Mozilla etc..." and to apply it also to
> business as well ?

let's see...

I believe that under the odd category of "open course people" fall about
2000-4000 people in Israel. maybe about 100 of those are actually
reading what hamakor's members have to say, of those about half are
still in highscool or the army and the word "income" makes their mouths
water, of the other half not all of us are make huge salaries either.

so you get an item in the paper. "40 angry spoiled hightech people want
the banks to support web standards or they will close their accounts!".
this will undoubtedly lead to a wide manhunt and massive firings at
Bank Israel for not putting the squeeze on the banks in the matter, a
parlament discussion will arise and change legislation as well. at the
final throws of complete chaos and near-bloodshed, Ido is elected prime
minister and makes XHTML the new government-enforced mode of electronic
communication, a whole hacker subculture of illegal XHTML2HTML apps
floods the IRC channels. the end.



-- 
The first name in justice
Ira Abramov
http://ira.abramov.org/email/

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread ik
On Thursday 28 October 2004 12:44, Ira Abramov wrote:
> My levels of frustration from Bank Leumi broke the last back of the last
> camel today. I'm going to search for a new bank with lower commisions
> and more personal attitude.
> 
> Bank Hapo'alim is NOT an option either.
> 
> can anyone tel me what nice small personal-touch banks have
> Mozilla-compliant web access? if you feel this is off topic, please feel
> free to answer off-list.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ira.
> 
I wonder ... Most Open Source people, have a hi-tech position.
Hi-Tech consider to be one of the biggist income of the market...
Isn't there a way to make banks to support non IE products with just the pressure of 
"Open Source people will be recommended to
work only with banks that does support Mozilla etc..." and to apply it also to 
business as well ?

Ido
-- 
If stock market experts were so expert, they would be buying stock, not selling advice.

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Re: Banks, Mozilla and life on a stick.

2004-10-28 Thread amos
Ira Abramov wrote:
Bank Hapo'alim is NOT an option either.
Just for the technical aspect - as far as I'm aware they
support Gecko pretty well.
can anyone tel me what nice small personal-touch banks have
Mozilla-compliant web access? if you feel this is off topic, please feel
free to answer off-list.
As I always point out when this subject comes up - FIBI
(First International Bank) have 100% support for Firefox, I
never had any problem with their site what so ever over quite
a few years (about 4 now).
As for a personal touch, my branch is ok but I think the general
rule is to look for a small branch (which surprisingly mine is,
even though it's in the center of Tel-Aviv).
Hope this helps,
--Amos
Thanks,
Ira.

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