Virtualization hardware - was (Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization)
Specifically regarding available hardware. What hardware (CPU - INTEL/AMD) today comes with virtualization features and is most compatible to vmware/xen/etc...? Can someone recommend a good spec for that? How is xen compared to vmware (ESX?) performance wise and utilizing special hardware features? What about graphics, i recall they had problems utilizing performance in the past for windows, is it solved? 10x. -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Virtualization hardware - was (Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization)
On Tuesday 17 April 2007 16:33:31 Jacob Broido wrote: Hi, CPU's: I assume you're refering to VT-x(Intel) and Pacifica(AMD) cpu extentions. Well, you can find a list of CPU models supporting these extentions here: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/IntelVT and AMD: Athlon 64 F* , All current Opterons Having said that, using hardware aided vm extentions does not neceserly boost one's performance (in many cases it worsens it), what it does allow though, is running unmodified Guest OS's under a hypervisor(i.e windows under xen). As for xen VS vmware(ESX) , there are many mixed benchmarks(vmware prohibits publishing benchmark results of its products) around the compared perfomance of these two, so I wont go directly into that. Having said that Vmware seems to be a more mature and polished product. Keep in mind that ESX is not a freeware and quite expensive , moreover it must have SAN or iSCSI as its storage. All in all, regarding specs it really depends on the type of load you're planning to do. But one thing is for sure, you can never have too much RAM and double importance goes for VM's. Is it worth using xen/vmware esx for a development workstation? Are the VT extentions are in effect when using the host/guests version of vmware (i.e. not esx). Is it fair to say that intel VT features are supported and more stable in xen and vmware products? 10x. On 4/17/07, Tzahi Fadida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Specifically regarding available hardware. What hardware (CPU - INTEL/AMD) today comes with virtualization features and is most compatible to vmware/xen/etc...? Can someone recommend a good spec for that? How is xen compared to vmware (ESX?) performance wise and utilizing special hardware features? What about graphics, i recall they had problems utilizing performance in the past for windows, is it solved? 10x. -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Virtualization hardware - was (Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization)
Hi, CPU's: I assume you're refering to VT-x(Intel) and Pacifica(AMD) cpu extentions. Well, you can find a list of CPU models supporting these extentions here: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/IntelVT and AMD: Athlon 64 F* , All current Opterons Having said that, using hardware aided vm extentions does not neceserly boost one's performance (in many cases it worsens it), what it does allow though, is running unmodified Guest OS's under a hypervisor(i.e windows under xen). As for xen VS vmware(ESX) , there are many mixed benchmarks(vmware prohibits publishing benchmark results of its products) around the compared perfomance of these two, so I wont go directly into that. Having said that Vmware seems to be a more mature and polished product. Keep in mind that ESX is not a freeware and quite expensive , moreover it must have SAN or iSCSI as its storage. All in all, regarding specs it really depends on the type of load you're planning to do. But one thing is for sure, you can never have too much RAM and double importance goes for VM's. On 4/17/07, Tzahi Fadida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Specifically regarding available hardware. What hardware (CPU - INTEL/AMD) today comes with virtualization features and is most compatible to vmware/xen/etc...? Can someone recommend a good spec for that? How is xen compared to vmware (ESX?) performance wise and utilizing special hardware features? What about graphics, i recall they had problems utilizing performance in the past for windows, is it solved? 10x. -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Not gonna be king of the world if you're slave to the grind - Skid Row
Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization
I think that your best bet would be to use virtual machines (VMware or competitor). You can (EULA permitting) save copies of images at various stages of installation and operation. Then, when something goes wrong (as it invariably would), you can restore an older image, with cost only of copying 4GB data from one place to another place. Another option is to use two computers - one running Linux, to be used to edit files, and the other one - to run compilations and executions. They'll use SAMBA to share files. At a previous work I used both approaches. --- Omer On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 21:11 +0300, Tzahi Fadida wrote: Hi, As part of my new job, i am going to develop also windows kernel/drivers. Therefore i will have to (naturally) run windows, however, i got comfortable with linux desktop and i am reluctant to move back to windows as my main desktop environment. What are my options, considering i am willing to buy ANY (within reason) new hardware to accommodate the possibility of running the two OSs (linux and windows) in tandem without interfering with the work flow. What is the most optimal solution money can buy software wise. -- In civilized societies, captions are as important in movies as soundtracks, professional photography and expert editing. My own blog is at http://tddpirate.livejournal.com/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization
Tzahi Fadida [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As part of my new job, i am going to develop also windows kernel/drivers. Therefore i will have to (naturally) run windows, however, i got comfortable with linux desktop and i am reluctant to move back to windows as my main desktop environment. Don't. Windows GUI sucks in so many major ways compared to Linux. What are my options, considering i am willing to buy ANY (within reason) new hardware to accommodate the possibility of running the two OSs (linux and windows) in tandem without interfering with the work flow. What is the most optimal solution money can buy software wise. I am confused: software-wise or hardware-wise? Well, in any case, the following options come to mind (I have personal experience with all of them, they all work): 1) 2 computers, 2 monitors (a dual flat panel may be very nice). I would prefer this solution, unless you are really afraid that you would be distracted by the second screen even when it is off. I used to work like this 10 to 5 years ago and liked it a lot. You can use a KVM switch to have a single keyboard and a single mouse, if your desk area is limited. 2) 2 computers, 1 monitor, KVM switch - only one desktop shown at a time which may be a disadvantage, depending on the work pattern. I used to work like this, too, it is OK, but I didn't like the necessity to switch the display. Make sure your KVM supports switching from the keyboard, otherwise you will have to have the switch and the cables on your (physical) desktop next to your keyboard/mouse to press the stupid button, which is a nuisance. 3) 2 computers, 1 monitor, either an X server on Windows or an RDP client on Linux or VNC (in either direction) or something of the kind. Pros: 1 monitor, simultaneous display. Cons: you may get good performance or you may find it a bit sluggish depending on the configuration and on what you do, YMMV. 4) Solution 2 above + the software in solution 3 for those cases when you need to see the Linux and Windows screens simultaneously. Pros compared to 3 - you can make any of the computers your main screen and display the other desktop in a window at will. 5) A virtual machine such as VMware. You will need a decent computer, enough memory, etc., but the requirements are modest by today's standards. I run Linux on a T43 Thinkpad and there are some things (being nice to co-workers mainly) that I need to do in Windows, so I have an XP in a VMware Player, allocated 368MB of RAM out of the total GB to it, and it works just fine. Depending on what kernel work you will be doing, you may need to run Windows on real HW and Linux in a VM, which may be less than absolutely perfect (but probably decent) if you spend the vast majority of your time in the Linux desktop. The above assumes that we are talking about desktop computers and you will be working at your desk. Hope it helps. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.goldshmidt.org = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization
On Monday 16 April 2007 22:16:00 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: 5) A virtual machine such as VMware. You will need a decent computer, enough memory, etc., but the requirements are modest by today's standards. I run Linux on a T43 Thinkpad and there are some things (being nice to co-workers mainly) that I need to do in Windows, so I have an XP in a VMware Player, allocated 368MB of RAM out of the total GB to it, and it works just fine. Depending on what kernel work you will be doing, you may need to run Windows on real HW and Linux in a VM, which may be less than absolutely perfect (but probably decent) if you spend the vast majority of your time in the Linux desktop. The above assumes that we are talking about desktop computers and you will be working at your desk. There are 2 workplaces i am looking at. At work i am getting 1 computer with who knows what on it. 99% it is windows. It would be stupid to develop drivers on your main OS, thus i am guessing vmware would be the other solution there anyway, so i will also run linux on a separate vmware session or run cygwin solutions. However, i got the feeling it won't play nice if i have 1 main OS + 2 guests at the same time. As a kernel developer, however, i may get a new computer with those new CPUs that can handle VT. Do you think they will be able to handle 2 guests? The other place is at home which is here i am referring to the hw solution. Here the host os will obviously remain Linux and thus, the virtualized OS would be windows. I guess VMWARE here too? What about XEN? I hear that there are CPUs which are better at virtualization , what should i purchase? currently my computer won't be able to handle another OS since it is p1.6. -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization
Tzahi Fadida wrote: On Monday 16 April 2007 22:16:00 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: 5) A virtual machine such as VMware. You will need a decent computer, enough memory, etc., but the requirements are modest by today's standards. I run Linux on a T43 Thinkpad and there are some things (being nice to co-workers mainly) that I need to do in Windows, so I have an XP in a VMware Player, allocated 368MB of RAM out of the total GB to it, and it works just fine. Depending on what kernel work you will be doing, you may need to run Windows on real HW and Linux in a VM, which may be less than absolutely perfect (but probably decent) if you spend the vast majority of your time in the Linux desktop. The above assumes that we are talking about desktop computers and you will be working at your desk. There are 2 workplaces i am looking at. At work i am getting 1 computer with who knows what on it. 99% it is windows. It would be stupid to develop drivers on your main OS, thus i am guessing vmware would be the other solution there anyway, so i will also run linux on a separate vmware session or run cygwin solutions. However, i got the feeling it won't play nice if i have 1 main OS + 2 guests at the same time. As a kernel developer, however, i may get a new computer with those new CPUs that can handle VT. Do you think they will be able to handle 2 guests? The other place is at home which is here i am referring to the hw solution. Here the host os will obviously remain Linux and thus, the virtualized OS would be windows. I guess VMWARE here too? What about XEN? I hear that there are CPUs which are better at virtualization , what should i purchase? currently my computer won't be able to handle another OS since it is p1.6. normally, when developing drivers for windows, especially if they are hardware drivers - you can't do that on a guest OS - you need to do this on an OS running directly on the hardware. this is because the guest only sees virtualized hardware - and your company's hardware is not supported by the virtualization engine ;) thus, in most driver-related work places, you will get 2 computers anyway - one on which to develop the code and compile it. one on which to run the driver (and crash it every once in a while). thus, you will be able to run the virtualization system on the first PC. note that in windows, you often connect the debugger, from the development machine, via a serial (COM) cable to the target machine. thus, if you'll run windows as a guest - it'll need access to the COM port - you'll have to figure out how to configure it, and be ready to handle problems on your own - no one in the company will help you with it - unless there's another linux freak there ;) --guy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommendation for software/hardware for virtualization
On Tuesday 17 April 2007 01:29:44 guy keren wrote: Tzahi Fadida wrote: On Monday 16 April 2007 22:16:00 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: 5) A virtual machine such as VMware. You will need a decent computer, enough memory, etc., but the requirements are modest by today's standards. I run Linux on a T43 Thinkpad and there are some things (being nice to co-workers mainly) that I need to do in Windows, so I have an XP in a VMware Player, allocated 368MB of RAM out of the total GB to it, and it works just fine. Depending on what kernel work you will be doing, you may need to run Windows on real HW and Linux in a VM, which may be less than absolutely perfect (but probably decent) if you spend the vast majority of your time in the Linux desktop. The above assumes that we are talking about desktop computers and you will be working at your desk. There are 2 workplaces i am looking at. At work i am getting 1 computer with who knows what on it. 99% it is windows. It would be stupid to develop drivers on your main OS, thus i am guessing vmware would be the other solution there anyway, so i will also run linux on a separate vmware session or run cygwin solutions. However, i got the feeling it won't play nice if i have 1 main OS + 2 guests at the same time. As a kernel developer, however, i may get a new computer with those new CPUs that can handle VT. Do you think they will be able to handle 2 guests? The other place is at home which is here i am referring to the hw solution. Here the host os will obviously remain Linux and thus, the virtualized OS would be windows. I guess VMWARE here too? What about XEN? I hear that there are CPUs which are better at virtualization , what should i purchase? currently my computer won't be able to handle another OS since it is p1.6. normally, when developing drivers for windows, especially if they are hardware drivers - you can't do that on a guest OS - you need to do this on an OS running directly on the hardware. this is because the guest only sees virtualized hardware - and your company's hardware is not supported by the virtualization engine ;) No hardware. It is all software (security etc...). thus, in most driver-related work places, you will get 2 computers anyway - one on which to develop the code and compile it. one on which to run the driver (and crash it every once in a while). thus, you will be able to run the virtualization system on the first PC. note that in windows, you often connect the debugger, from the development machine, via a serial (COM) cable to the target machine. thus, if you'll run windows as a guest - it'll need access to the COM port - you'll have to figure out how to configure it, and be ready to handle problems on your own - no one in the company will help you with it - unless there's another linux freak there ;) Well, the product is cross-platforms and we have a few linux developers there. Hopefully, i'll get some help with that if necessary. -- Regards, Tzahi. -- Tzahi Fadida Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
