Re: no linux GUI in 97?
Tzafrir Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The author (Ori Redler) is not as clueless as the article suggests. He > knows linux pretty well. From what he wrote to me, that article was > severly edited. The original wording was something like "in 1997 linux had > no decent GUI", which is quite correct. No, it isn't. Since early 1996 I worked for a company that wrote mission-critical applications with Linux as a major development platform. Linux had excellent GUI's (in plural) based on X then. Much better than Microsoft's, IMHO. I think Linux even had WYSIWYG office suits by 1997 (was Applixware out?). I first saw Linux in action in 1994, I believe. IIRC, it had GUI even then. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I'd rather write programs to write programs than write programs." = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 02:47:02PM +0300, Yotam Rubin wrote: > Most revered sir. > > That does not imply cluelessness, it's a highly inflammatory statement. > X window is not a GUI. Besides, what's a paradigm for a GUI? I find the > Windows GUI horribly illogical and user-hostile. > KDE and GNOME are well documented, unlike their Windows counterpart, which aims > at obscuring very important details. Microsoft has simply convinced the general > public that it has created a "user-friendly" OS. He does not deserve to be > flamed, we should simply make him aware of his error via conventional means. > > Regards, > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 11:50:22AM +0200, Alon Barzilai wrote: > > not clueless? > > look what he wrote me this morning: > > > > "I did not write that Linux started in 1997. As for GUI, it still > > doesn't > > have one in the conservative sense. The GUIs offered are more like > > elaborated skins than real GUIs." > > > > X windows is elaborated skins? Nah. From the authors's statement it looks that he is quite clueful, but is strongly and unconventionally opinionated (or at least, quoting the opinion of someone else who is strongly and unconventionally opinionated). If he were truely clueless he'd say something like "I wouldn't call it a GUI while you still have to use the command line for most things". His original statemet is too different from the usual media conception of Linux for me to believe that the difference between his opinion and ours results from lack of knowledge. It implies that he knows Gnome and KDE have many flashy themes, for example. But then again, I have never spoken to him... I wonder what he means by "GUI in the conservative sense". = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
Most revered sir. That does not imply cluelessness, it's a highly inflammatory statement. X window is not a GUI. Besides, what's a paradigm for a GUI? I find the Windows GUI horribly illogical and user-hostile. KDE and GNOME are well documented, unlike their Windows counterpart, which aims at obscuring very important details. Microsoft has simply convinced the general public that it has created a "user-friendly" OS. He does not deserve to be flamed, we should simply make him aware of his error via conventional means. Regards, On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 11:50:22AM +0200, Alon Barzilai wrote: > not clueless? > look what he wrote me this morning: > > "I did not write that Linux started in 1997. As for GUI, it still > doesn't > have one in the conservative sense. The GUIs offered are more like > elaborated skins than real GUIs." > > X windows is elaborated skins? > > Alon > > > Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > > > > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Uri Bruck wrote: > > > > ? > > ? I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > > ? to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > > ? Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > ? > > ? Anyone wants to set him straight one that? > > > > The author (Ori Redler) is not as clueless as the article suggests. He > > knows linux pretty well. From what he wrote to me, that article was > > severly edited. The original wording was something like "in 1997 linux had > > no decent GUI", which is quite correct. > > > > This applies to various other incorrect facts in the article, thus there > > is really no need to "set him straight" > > > > -- > > Tzafrir Cohen > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir > > > > = > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > PGP signature
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
not clueless? look what he wrote me this morning: "I did not write that Linux started in 1997. As for GUI, it still doesn't have one in the conservative sense. The GUIs offered are more like elaborated skins than real GUIs." X windows is elaborated skins? Alon Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Uri Bruck wrote: > > ? > ? I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > ? to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > ? Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > ? > ? Anyone wants to set him straight one that? > > The author (Ori Redler) is not as clueless as the article suggests. He > knows linux pretty well. From what he wrote to me, that article was > severly edited. The original wording was something like "in 1997 linux had > no decent GUI", which is quite correct. > > This applies to various other incorrect facts in the article, thus there > is really no need to "set him straight" > > -- > Tzafrir Cohen > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
At 10:46 PM 4/22/2001, Nadav Har'El wrote: >No, you got it all backwards, in 1991 the GUI had no Linux :) > >I think Linux started on 1991 or a little later (if I remember correctly, >I started using it around 1993). X11, which is to this day Linux's >GUI existed way before that... > >But it is probably true that the first releases of Linux didn't include >an X-Windows port - after all when your file system isn't working >correctly yet, the last thing you're going to concetrate on is porting >a huge corpus of software like X-Windows. I remember how a little later >(in 1994) I had at work an old Sun machine with some broken old version >of X-Windows (X11R3). So I brought the entire X11R4 source distribution >from MIT (on a QIC tape), which was around 100MB (this was considered >huge at the time), and compiled the beast. The compilation took many, >many hours. It wasn't something you would want to try on an experimental, >version 0.1, operating system... Actually, when Linux first shipped out, it didn't even have a login system, let alone a GUI. What you basically got was dumped right into single user mode, and you had the GNU utils & GCC. X11 was introduced at a much later date (with several other attempts at a GUI as 'light' X replacements, if memory serves correctly - X was a monster for the PCs of those days) Just a piece of trivia, in memory of days long gone, -Eyal = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001, Shaul Karl wrote about "Re: no linux GUI in 97?": > > > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > > > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > > > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > Couldn't it be that he meant to write 1 and got a 7? > 1991 will fit to `no GUI'. No, you got it all backwards, in 1991 the GUI had no Linux :) I think Linux started on 1991 or a little later (if I remember correctly, I started using it around 1993). X11, which is to this day Linux's GUI existed way before that... But it is probably true that the first releases of Linux didn't include an X-Windows port - after all when your file system isn't working correctly yet, the last thing you're going to concetrate on is porting a huge corpus of software like X-Windows. I remember how a little later (in 1994) I had at work an old Sun machine with some broken old version of X-Windows (X11R3). So I brought the entire X11R4 source distribution from MIT (on a QIC tape), which was around 100MB (this was considered huge at the time), and compiled the beast. The compilation took many, many hours. It wasn't something you would want to try on an experimental, version 0.1, operating system... History buffs are welcome to check the XFree86 project's page to see how and when it started porting X11 to PCs. I don't remember ever seeing X11 on AT&T System Vr4 (which ran on PCs with 386 before Linux existed), or on Microsoft/SCO Xenix (which ran on 286s even earlier). But even earlier, in 1984, AT&T already had Unix terminals with CRT displays, mice, and a window-based GUI (but their concept was very different from X11 - I can elaborate if anyone is interested). Contrary to popular belief, Microsoft did not invent the GUI :) -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Apr 22 2001, 30 Nisan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A thing is not necessarily true because http://nadav.harel.org.il |a man dies for it. - Oscar Wilde = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Wasiuddin Rajesh wrote: > Hi list... > > well, On 5th Oct 1991 Sir, Mr. Linus, announced the first > "Official" version 0.02. of Linux.. source to which, for the historically inclined, can be found on any kernel.org mirror. > By the way, I got a problem here with my Redhat 6.0 Kernel 2.2.12-20. > 1 file is missing from its http server. it is a .html file. Now is it > possible to del a file as a user while browsing? ( It sounds silly, though > I am asking. coz it happned here). sure, can be done via a cgi, or by breaking into your webserver. i suggest checking all of your cgis for correct input validation. -- mulix http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
Hi list... well, On 5th Oct 1991 Sir, Mr. Linus, announced the first "Official" version 0.02. of Linux.. By the way, I got a problem here with my Redhat 6.0 Kernel 2.2.12-20. 1 file is missing from its http server. it is a .html file. Now is it possible to del a file as a user while browsing? ( It sounds silly, though I am asking. coz it happned here). Pls advice... On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Uri Bruck wrote: > > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > Anyone wants to set him straight one that? > > > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
> What? Such journalistic inaccuracy makes one wonder about the efficiency of > Microsoft's relentless FUD tactics. He can expect a letter from me, > and hopefully others will also contact him. > > Regards, Yotam Rubin > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:46:36PM +0300, Uri Bruck wrote: > > > > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > > > Anyone wants to set him straight one that? > > Couldn't it be that he meant to write 1 and got a 7? 1991 will fit to `no GUI'. -- Shaul Karl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
Hi all, > But I expected actual journalists to have some more weight in the paper, > Do the editors really modify articles without letting the reporter have > another look at the edited piece? If this is the case, it's a really lame > practice, especially when it appears the editor doesn't know the material > himself (or herself). That's precisely what they do. I wrote a computer column in the Jerusalem Post for 3 years (until 1996), and several times it was edited to death, with wrong facts put in by desk editors, despite the fact that I was a full time member of staff (head system administrator at that time) and all they had to was phone me up or call me over from the other side of the news room. BTW I wrote at least 3 columns on Linux in the Jerusalem Post at that time, including a review of Yggdrasil P&P Linux in about 1994 or 95, which must have been the first mention of Linux in the Israeli press. Daniel Baum - Systems Administrator Millimetrix Broadband Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. 03-9026522/350 Fax 03-9026520 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:46:36PM +0300, Uri Bruck wrote: > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. This can be understood as "when Linux first gained public awareness". (Thinking of it, the first time I've heard of Linux must've been 1998 :) -- Best regards, Ilya Konstantinov = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Sun, Apr 22, 2001, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: no linux GUI in 97?": > The author (Ori Redler) is not as clueless as the article suggests. He > knows linux pretty well. From what he wrote to me, that article was > severly edited. The original wording was something like "in 1997 linux had > no decent GUI", which is quite correct. > > This applies to various other incorrect facts in the article, thus there > is really no need to "set him straight" I know how journalists can take what you say, twist it around, and then write down stuff you supposedly said that will make you sound like an idiot. But I expected actual journalists to have some more weight in the paper, Do the editors really modify articles without letting the reporter have another look at the edited piece? If this is the case, it's a really lame practice, especially when it appears the editor doesn't know the material himself (or herself). After all we're not talking here about last-minute breaking news, but rather an article planned in advance. -- Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Apr 22 2001, 29 Nisan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx] http://nadav.harel.org.il |sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Uri Bruck wrote: > > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > Anyone wants to set him straight one that? The author (Ori Redler) is not as clueless as the article suggests. He knows linux pretty well. From what he wrote to me, that article was severly edited. The original wording was something like "in 1997 linux had no decent GUI", which is quite correct. This applies to various other incorrect facts in the article, thus there is really no need to "set him straight" -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no linux GUI in 97?
What? Such journalistic inaccuracy makes one wonder about the efficiency of Microsoft's relentless FUD tactics. He can expect a letter from me, and hopefully others will also contact him. Regards, Yotam Rubin On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:46:36PM +0300, Uri Bruck wrote: > > I know that date is wrong, but one of the Captain Internet writers seems > to think that "when linux first showed up in 1997 it had no GUI". > Seems to have strange ideas on when linux showed up. > > Anyone wants to set him straight one that? > > > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
