Re: Shared memory quantity not being reflected by /proc/meminfo
Hi Allan, On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Allan Duncan wrote: > OK, it's fine by me if the "shared" under 2.2.x is not the same, > however in that case the field should not appear at all in meminfo, > rather than the current zero value, which leads lesser kernel > hackers like me up the garden path. This would probably break a lot of user space apps. Greetings Christoph - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: VIA Southbridge bug (Was: Crash on boot (2.4.5))
> Great, glad to here it. Who (if anyone) is still attempting to unravel > the puzzle of the Via southbridge bug? You, Andy, should try and get in > touch with them and help debug this thing, if you're up to it. The IWILL problem seems unrelated. Its the board that more than others people report fails totally when streaming memory copies using movntq instructions. The Athlon optimised kernel places pretty much the absolute maximum load possible on the memory bus. Several people have reported that machines that are otherwise stable on the bios fast options require the proper conservative settings to be stable with the Athlon optimisations Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: AMD thunderbird oops
Athlon TB CPUs >= 1000mhz potentially not stable at all because of great heat-production, without correct hardware maintence - try to check whether Your cpu overheating or cpu cooler make mighty vibration. Best regards, Alexander mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Alan Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: AMD thunderbird oops > > I just upgradede my system to an 1200Mhz AMD Athlon Thundirbird (266Mhz FSB) processor / 512Meg of RAM, and an Asus kt7a motherboard. > > > > It is oppsing left and right. I recompiled the kernel with Athelon as the CPU but keep getting these oopses.. > > > > I also get these same problems while trying to install RH 7.1 > > > > Anyone know is this a supported processor / MB and has anyone had these problems? > > Random oopses normally indicate faulty board cpu or ram (and the fault may > even just be overheating or dimms not in the sockets cleanly). I doubt its > the board design or model that is the problem, you probably jut have a faulty > component somewhere if its oopsing randomly even during installs and stuff > > memtest86, and heatsink compound may be your best friends > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: AMD thunderbird oops
> I just upgradede my system to an 1200Mhz AMD Athlon Thundirbird (266Mhz FSB) >processor / 512Meg of RAM, and an Asus kt7a motherboard. > > It is oppsing left and right. I recompiled the kernel with Athelon as the CPU but >keep getting these oopses.. > > I also get these same problems while trying to install RH 7.1 > > Anyone know is this a supported processor / MB and has anyone had these problems? Random oopses normally indicate faulty board cpu or ram (and the fault may even just be overheating or dimms not in the sockets cleanly). I doubt its the board design or model that is the problem, you probably jut have a faulty component somewhere if its oopsing randomly even during installs and stuff memtest86, and heatsink compound may be your best friends - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[PATCH] i810-tco bugfix
Hi all,
this small patch fixes stupid bug in i810 TCO watchdog driver.
This bug was created by me (ugh) along with i815/i8[2456]0 support.
Best regards.
--
Andrey Panin| Embedded systems software engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| PGP key: http://www.orbita1.ru/~pazke/AndreyPanin.asc
diff -ur -X /usr/dontdiff /linux.vanilla/drivers/char/i810-tco.c
/linux/drivers/char/i810-tco.c
--- /linux.vanilla/drivers/char/i810-tco.c Mon Jun 25 23:45:39 2001
+++ /linux/drivers/char/i810-tco.c Tue Jun 26 00:19:14 2001
@@ -261,12 +261,11 @@
*/
pci_for_each_dev(dev) {
- i810tco_pci = pci_match_device(i810tco_pci_tbl, dev);
- if (i810tco_pci != NULL)
+ if (pci_match_device(i810tco_pci_tbl, dev))
break;
}
- if (i810tco_pci) {
+ if ((i810tco_pci = dev)) {
/*
* Find the ACPI base I/O address which is the base
* for the TCO registers (TCOBASE=ACPIBASE + 0x60)
PGP signature
Reg Kernel Debugger kdb
Hi, I would like to use a kernel debugger to set some breakpoints in some of the kernel functions. In SVR4 and unixware we use kdb. What is its equivalent in linux? Please tell me where the kernel debugger can be downloaded for linux. Thanks in advance, With regards, sathish.j - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
VIA Southbridge bug (Was: Crash on boot (2.4.5))
Great, glad to here it. Who (if anyone) is still attempting to unravel the puzzle of the Via southbridge bug? You, Andy, should try and get in touch with them and help debug this thing, if you're up to it. On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 01:17:57AM -0500, Andy Ward wrote: > Well, I have tried your suggestion, and it works beautifully... The > only change I made was to the cpu type (to 686), and everything *just* > works now... Thanks, all!!! > > > From the look of things, you're being bitten by the VIA southbridge > > problem. As I've gathered, its some sort of interaction with that chip > > and the 3DNow! fast copy routines the kernel uses. > > > > If you compile the kernel for a 686, does the problem go away? What > > about 586 or lower? If so, I believe there are some people working on > > finding common aspects of the hardware that experience this problem, > > though I don't remember who. You should get in contact with them, or > > they might get into contact with you. > > > > Good luck on working this out. > > -- > > -Steven > > In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. > > -- George Orwell -- -Steven In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: Crash on boot (2.4.5)
Well, I have tried your suggestion, and it works beautifully... The only change I made was to the cpu type (to 686), and everything *just* works now... Thanks, all!!! -- andyw -Original Message- From: Steven Walter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 3:42 PM To: Andy Ward Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Crash on boot (2.4.5) On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:51:09PM -0500, Daniel Fraley wrote: > Hi, everyone.. I'm borrowing my roommate's email, so please send replies to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! > > Here's my problem... when I boot anything 2.4, I get several oopsen in a > row, all of which are either (most commonly) kernel paging request could not > be handled, or (much less common) unable to handle kernel Null pointer > dereference. I will send any info on request, but here's my hardware and > kernel config: > > iWill KKR-266R (Via 8363 Northbridge, 686B south) > AMD tbird 1GHz > 256MB cas2 pc133 sdram > ATI Radeon DDR 64MB VIVO > Kingston KNE120TX (Realtek 8139 chip) > SBLive! 5.1 > IBM GXP75 30GB (on the via ide controller) > Pioneer 16x dvd > ls120 > > This happens regardless if I turn on swap or not. When swap is on, it is a > 128MB partition (and yes, I'm aware of the recommendation of 2x RAM, but I > believe I read somewhere that someone was working on that, and I didn't want > to waste the extra 384MB on swap). > > Is there anything I can do to fix this? > > -- andyw > > p.s., booting with devfs=nomount is better, but still causes oopsen (I get > to a login prompt, but if I do much more than mount a disk a copy to it, the > system freaks) >From the look of things, you're being bitten by the VIA southbridge problem. As I've gathered, its some sort of interaction with that chip and the 3DNow! fast copy routines the kernel uses. If you compile the kernel for a 686, does the problem go away? What about 586 or lower? If so, I believe there are some people working on finding common aspects of the hardware that experience this problem, though I don't remember who. You should get in contact with them, or they might get into contact with you. Good luck on working this out. -- -Steven In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: mounting a fs in two places at once?
Alexander Viro writes: > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Marty Leisner wrote: > > > I just installed redhat 7.1 on a system. > > > > Cleaning up, a made a fs for home...(mounted on /mnt > > to write the stuff to it) > > > > Then I accidently mounted it on /home. > > > > So it was mounted on /home and /mnt at the same time. > > (I didn't bother going in to see what was there). > > Same tree, obviously. > > > Shouldn't this NOT happen? > > Sigh... Guys, who maintains l-k FAQ? You mean the LK mailing list FAQ? That would be me. > Q: I've mounted filesystem in two different places and it worked. Why? > A: Because you've asked to do that. Yes, it works. No, it's not a bug. > > Q: what should I do to unmount it? > A: umount > > Q: but that took care only of one of them. How can I deal with another? > A: umount Patches to the LKML FAQ accepted :-) Regards, Richard Permanent: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [patch] rio500 devfs support
Gregory T. Norris writes: > > --qlTNgmc+xy1dBmNv > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" > Content-Disposition: inline Yuk! MIME! > --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horrors! Quoted-printables! > Here's an updated version of the patch - the only real difference is > that rio500.c will printk an error message if devfs_register() fails.=20 > I left that out originally because devfs logs the error, but it's > probably a good idea to indicate which driver made the request. No, it's a bad idea to test the error from devfs_register() unless you *really* have a good reason. Most people who think they have a good reason actually don't, they're just confused :-) The reason you don't want to test the return value is that way the driver works fine with CONFIG_DEVFS=n. Otherwise, you have a driver that doesn't work with devfs, or you have to put ugly #ifdef's in the code. Regards, Richard Permanent: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH] catch potential null derefs in drivers/char/ip2main.c (245ac16)
On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 07:14:00PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 11:06:06PM +0200, Rasmus Andersen wrote: > > Hi. > > > (My last mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounced. Is there another > > maintainer for drivers/char/ip2main.c somewhere?) > > I'm still here. :-) Just look one more line down below > Doug's line. There I am. Ah. My apoligies. I am not accustomed to the luxury of having multiple maintainers to bug :) No slight intended. Regards, Rasmus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Sunday 24 June 2001 22:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Sorry, but I'm hanging on to my old computer manuals. The AIX manuals in > particular have sentimemtal value for me. Entirely undersandable. Would you be willing to xerox any "introduction" or "about" sections? > OTOH, I have quite a few old computer magazines (from the 80's) like Byte, > Infoworld, etc. I've been intending to get rid of them for some time now, > but hated just to throw them away. They're in storage in a neighboring > state right now, but my wife probably will be driving there in the next > couple of weeks to pick up a few things. If you're interested, she could > bring back the magazines and I can tell you exactly what I have. You're > welcome to them if you want them. Sure. Let me know what you have and I'll tell you what I don't have... > Wayne Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: Crash on boot (2.4.5)
H... haven't tried changing to non-AMD for the chip type... I'll try pentium later tonight and see if it works better. Thanks for the insight -- andyw -Original Message- From: Steven Walter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 3:42 PM To: Andy Ward Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Crash on boot (2.4.5) On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:51:09PM -0500, Daniel Fraley wrote: > Hi, everyone.. I'm borrowing my roommate's email, so please send replies to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! > > Here's my problem... when I boot anything 2.4, I get several oopsen in a > row, all of which are either (most commonly) kernel paging request could not > be handled, or (much less common) unable to handle kernel Null pointer > dereference. I will send any info on request, but here's my hardware and > kernel config: > > iWill KKR-266R (Via 8363 Northbridge, 686B south) > AMD tbird 1GHz > 256MB cas2 pc133 sdram > ATI Radeon DDR 64MB VIVO > Kingston KNE120TX (Realtek 8139 chip) > SBLive! 5.1 > IBM GXP75 30GB (on the via ide controller) > Pioneer 16x dvd > ls120 > > This happens regardless if I turn on swap or not. When swap is on, it is a > 128MB partition (and yes, I'm aware of the recommendation of 2x RAM, but I > believe I read somewhere that someone was working on that, and I didn't want > to waste the extra 384MB on swap). > > Is there anything I can do to fix this? > > -- andyw > > p.s., booting with devfs=nomount is better, but still causes oopsen (I get > to a login prompt, but if I do much more than mount a disk a copy to it, the > system freaks) >From the look of things, you're being bitten by the VIA southbridge problem. As I've gathered, its some sort of interaction with that chip and the 3DNow! fast copy routines the kernel uses. If you compile the kernel for a 686, does the problem go away? What about 586 or lower? If so, I believe there are some people working on finding common aspects of the hardware that experience this problem, though I don't remember who. You should get in contact with them, or they might get into contact with you. Good luck on working this out. -- -Steven In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: Crash on boot (2.4.5)
Unfortunatly, the memory is just fine. Both 2.2 *and* two versions of windows run just fine on the same machine, so it's probably not that. -- andyw -Original Message- From: David Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 2:14 PM To: Andy Ward Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Crash on boot (2.4.5) Daniel: Have you tried swapping in a different stick of RAM and/or running a boot-time memory tester? Does it boot on 2.2 or any other OSs? I had a problem like this once before - turned out one of the two 128MB CAS2 modules were bad. I replaced it and 2.4 booted wonderfully. Good Luck, - Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Daniel Fraley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: Crash on boot (2.4.5) > Hi, everyone.. I'm borrowing my roommate's email, so please send replies to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! > > Here's my problem... when I boot anything 2.4, I get several oopsen in a > row, all of which are either (most commonly) kernel paging request could not > be handled, or (much less common) unable to handle kernel Null pointer > dereference. I will send any info on request, but here's my hardware and > kernel config: > > iWill KKR-266R (Via 8363 Northbridge, 686B south) > AMD tbird 1GHz > 256MB cas2 pc133 sdram > ATI Radeon DDR 64MB VIVO > Kingston KNE120TX (Realtek 8139 chip) > SBLive! 5.1 > IBM GXP75 30GB (on the via ide controller) > Pioneer 16x dvd > ls120 > > This happens regardless if I turn on swap or not. When swap is on, it is a > 128MB partition (and yes, I'm aware of the recommendation of 2x RAM, but I > believe I read somewhere that someone was working on that, and I didn't want > to waste the extra 384MB on swap). > > Is there anything I can do to fix this? > > -- andyw > > p.s., booting with devfs=nomount is better, but still causes oopsen (I get > to a login prompt, but if I do much more than mount a disk a copy to it, the > system freaks) > > > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Is SIOCGIFCOUNT implemented under 2.4.0
Hi All ! Just wanted to know whether SIOCGIFCOUNT ioctl is implemented in linux kernel >= 2.4.0. It gives me EINVAL, I browsed thru the code and concluded that this ioctl is not implemented. Am I correct ??? regards tom - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Where is check for superuser in TCP port bind.
Obviously (to me) this check is in tcp_v4_get_port(). But, I can't find it, or perhaps it's better hidden than I thought. Or maybe I'm just very confused. Any help would be most welcome. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: sizeof problem in kernel modules
struct { short x; long y; short z; }bad_struct;
struct { long y; short x; short z; }good_struct;
I would expect both structs to be 8byte in size , or atleast the same size !
but good_struct turns out to be 8bytes and bad_struct 12 .
what am I doing wrong here ?
thx !
hofrat
///
It's general padding performed everywhere for a 32-bit m/c. Since the short
number is considered to be of 2 bytes whereas new data should start at the
next 32 bit alignment( if the data length exceeds the padding required )
hence next 2 bytes are left as padding, so the actual struct. of your
defined structutres are as follows,
struct{
short x; /* 2- bytes */
/* again 2- bytes padding */
long y; /* 4 - bytes */
short z; /* 2 - bytes */
/* again 2 - bytes padding
}bad_struct;
struct{
long y; /* 4 - bytes */
short x; /* 2 - bytes */
short z; /* 2 - bytes */
}good_struct;
anil
-
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Re: cd writer problems with 2.4.5ac17
Hello! I wrote a CD today under 2.4.5-ac17 on MITSUMI CR-4804TE using SCSI emulation and cdrecord 1.9. No problems at all. Another computer is running 2.4.5-ac17 with Promise controller, but I only have hard drives connected to it. No problems except when ACPI was enabled. I understand that your CDR is the first (and maybe the only) device connected to the Promise controller. Consider connecting it to the onboard controller if you have one. What you are describing sounds like a hardware problem. You could try the old kernel and restore the original confuguration of the system. If it turns out to be a software problem, I'll appreciate if you locate the change that caused the problem. Also more details about your hardware would be useful. -- Regards, Pavel Roskin - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: What are the VM motivations??
On Monday 25 June 2001 05:44, Colonel wrote: > In clouddancer.list.kernel, you wrote: > >On Monday 25 June 2001 03:46, Russell Leighton wrote: > >> I read this thread as asking the question: > >> > >> If VM management is viewed as an optimization problem, > >> then what exactly is the function that you are optimizing and what > >> are the constraints? > >> > >> If you could express that well with a even a very loose model, then > >> the code could be reviewed to see if it was really doing what was > >> intended and assumptions could be tested. > > > >May I suggest an algorithm? > > > > - Write down what you think the optimization constraints are. > >(be specific, for example, enumerate all the flavors of page types - > >process code, process data, page cache file data, page cache swap > >cache, anonymous, shmem, etc.) > > > > - Write down what you think the current algorithms are. > >(again, be specific, use file names, function names, pseudocode and > >snippets of existing code.) > > > > - Send it to Rik. He'll tell you if it's right. > > POST IT. Give the rest of us some clues and the opportunity to check > evaluator's replies. Well, if you try that strategy you'll find you never get around to posting it because you'll be too worried about getting it right. The point is not to get it right, it's to get a starting point down on (virtual) paper. I'd strongly suggest passing something like that around for comment privately first. *Then* post it. (and convince me you're not just talking) -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
David Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a > lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make > the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel > internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. What do you want this for? If you don't need to preserve user space I have code that already does this. If you need to preserver the user space it is a trickier problem. But I have heard rumors of a suspend to swap patch... Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. If you don't care about preserving user space it is a solved problem. I have a patch that is currently up to 2.4.2 that works on both alpha, and x86. Porting to other archtietures also looks very simple. I wrote it so I can use the linux kernel in conjunction with some use space code as a bootloader. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: The Joy of Forking
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Rick Hohensee wrote: >2.4.5 is 26 meg now. It's time to consider forking the kernel. Alan has >already stuck his tippy-toe is that pool, and his toe is fine. > >The "thou shalt not fork" commandment made sense at one point, when free >unix was a lost tribe wandering hungry in the desert. When you have a >project with several million users that has a scope that simply doesn't >scale, it doesn't. Forking should be done responsibly, and with great joy. >As in nature, software success breeds diversity. Linux should diversify. >This is cause for celebration, ceremony, throwing of bouquets and so on. > >I have done a few trivial things that people with rather shallow ideas of >what unix is about have excoriated as "NOT UNIX!". So far that's been >absurd, but my stuff is getting more intrusive. Linux is far more >interesting to me for it's general usefulness and openness, which are >inextricably related, than for it's unixness, although unix is certainly >beautiful. > >Alan was going to file for divorce over dev_t. Isn't is funny how >estranged couples so often are so much alike? dev_t is crucial, of course, >but it's not the biggest geological fault in the kernel. SMP is. I have >dropped hints about this before. An SMP system is more fundamentally >different than UP than a 386 is different than other big microprocessors. > >As I mentioned that Steve Ballmer mentioned, Linux isn't getting any >traction on the client, the end-user desktop box. That's a huge and poorly >served market, so there are lots of tragically shallow ideas of how to >approach it. A few variations on the Linux theme are in order, that >preserve unixness, openness, but that don't have pretenses of being Big >UNIX(TM). > >For a client-use Linux kernel, I suggest, and will be and have been >persuing, features and non-features such as... > > forget POSIX > The standards that matter are de-facto standards. Linux is the > standard. Congratulations. Take your seat in the chair for > First Violin. NO. I port too many programs both ways. I need POSIX compliancy as much as is possible. That way the programs will compile and go among Linux, UNICOS, IRIX, Solaris, AIX, and sometimes HP-UX. > rtlinux by default > no SMP > SMP doesn't scale. If this fork comes, the smart maintainer > will take the non-SMP fork. Depends on platform and bus. From reports, it seems to scale just fine on non-intel systems. > x86 only (and similar, e.g. Crusoe) Again, Linux is the only system that CAN run on anything from PDA thorough supercomputer clusters. > mimimal VM cacheing > So you can red-switch the box without journalling with > reasonable damage, which for an end-user is a file or two. > Having done a lot of very wrong things with Linux, I'm > impressed that ext2 doesn't self-destruct under abuse. Not if you want some speed out of it. > in-kernel interpreter > I have one working. It's fun. VIRUSES, VIRUSES, and MORE VIRUS entry points. Assuming you mean both translator and execution at the same time. > EOL is CR&LF > The one thing Dos got right and unix got wrong. Also, in my > 2-month experience in a cube on a LAN, the most annoying thing > about trying to be a Linux end-user in a Dos shop. Printers > are CRLF, fer crissakes. > This is not a difficult mod, but it's a lot of little changes > throughout a box. Things that look for EOLs are the part that > has to be fixed by hand, and can be inclusive of CRLF and LF. I've used both. They are equivalent. Live with it. > Plan 9-style header files structure > Plan 9's most amazing stuff to me is the subtle refinements, > like sane header files. Sane C header files, _oh_ _my_ _God_. As long as source code portability is maintained. > excellent localizability > e.g. kernel error strings mapped to a file, or an #include > that can be language-specific. My DSFH stuff also. This is quite reasonable. Actually, unless you are referring to Kernel internal error codes, it's already done with perror. > >What about GUI's, and "desktops" and such? They're nice. They are >secondary, however. The free unix world doesn't often enough make the >point that GUI's are much more important when the underlying OS sucks, >which it doesn't in Linux. If you only use a compute/disk server. Otherwise you are saying "no desktop publishing, word processing, or image analysis". Are you still using DOS only? >In short, an open source OS for end-users should be very serious about >simplicity, and not just pay lip-service to it. There is evidence of the >value of this in the marketplace. What doesn't exist is an OS where >simplicity is systemic. This is why end-user i
Re: What are the VM motivations??
In clouddancer.list.kernel, you wrote: > >On Monday 25 June 2001 03:46, Russell Leighton wrote: >> I read this thread as asking the question: >> >> If VM management is viewed as an optimization problem, >> then what exactly is the function that you are optimizing and what are >> the constraints? >> >> If you could express that well with a even a very loose model, then >> the code could be reviewed to see if it was really doing what was intended >> and assumptions could be tested. > >May I suggested an algorithm? > > - Write down what you think the optimization constraints are. >(be specific, for example, enumerate all the flavors of page types - >process code, process data, page cache file data, page cache swap >cache, anonymous, shmem, etc.) > > - Write down what you think the current algorithms are. >(again, be specific, use file names, function names, pseudocode and >snippets of existing code.) > > - Send it to Rik. He'll tell you if it's right. POST IT. Give the rest of us some clues and the opportunity to check evaluator's replies. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: What are the VM motivations??
In clouddancer.list.kernel, you wrote: > >On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Colonel wrote: > >> It's simple. I want the old reliable behavior back, the one I found >> in kernels from 1.1.41 thru 2.2.14. > >And which one would that be ? Note that there have been >4 different VM subsystems in that time and the kernel has >made the transition from the buffer cache to the page cache >in that period. Once again a typical Rik comment. Completely misses the point and picks something obscure to comment upon, after carefully removing the remaining text. PICK ONE! >Please make up your mind before making feature requests ;) Try OPENING yours. There really is a world beyond your nose. -- "Or heck, let's just make the VM a _real_ Neural Network, that self trains itself to the load you put on the system. Hideously complex and evil? Well, why not wire up that roach on the floor, eating that stale cheese doodle. It can't do any worse job on VM that some of the VM patches I've seen..." -- Jason McMullan ditto - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[OT] Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:20:40AM +0200, Daniel Phillips wrote: > On Sunday 24 June 2001 12:36, Rob Landley wrote: > > On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:47, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > > GEM was a gui from Digital Research I believe. > > > Geoworks/Geos was a seperate entity. > > > > Ah, the DR-DOS answer to dosshell/windows. Cool. (I used Dr. Dos byt > > never tried its gui.) > > GEM had its moment of glory when Xerox used it for the gui of Ventura > Publisher. GEM (a slight variation) was also providing GUI on Atari ST. At that time it was heavily beating pants off from anything M$ was able to cobble together on nominally much faster machines. Michal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: GPIB support
On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:34:37 +0800 (HKT) Wan Hing Wah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm doing a project which port a component testing program in DOS which > use GPIB to linux > Does the Linux kernel support GPIB? > > > I find a linux gpib driver in the linux lab project > http://www.llp.fu-berlin.de/ > > but the newest version is release at 1999 and i wonder if it still under > development.. > Moreover,it is for kernel 1.2.x or 2.0.x and i wonder it will still work > on linux 2.4.x or not What is GPIB. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: RPC vs Socket
On 23 Jun 2001 17:49:39 +0200 Trond Myklebust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > " " == Jan Hudec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Both seem to have pros and cons. RPC should be easier to write > > (especialy the server side), but it performs bad with UDP on > > slow links. (NFS did not work on 115200 serial line because of > > too many dropped packets - TCP flow control too badly needed in > > such cases). Or can linux do RPC over TCP? > > The RPC client code for TCP is ready and already working both in > 2.2.18+ and 2.4.x. > > The server code however needs work. Where can find some document for write rpc program in kernel . Thanks - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:47, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Ummm... GEM was the Geos stuff? (Yeah I remember it, I haven't > > > researched it yet though...) > > > > GEM was a gui from Digital Research I believe. > > Geoworks/Geos was a seperate entity. > > Ah, the DR-DOS answer to dosshell/windows. Cool. (I used Dr. Dos byt never > tried its gui.) Actually I believe GEM predates DR-DOS, and except for being made by the same company I don't think they were ever related. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Annoying kernel behaviour
In clouddancer.list.kernel, you wrote: > >Colonel wrote: >> Ah, notice that the IRQ shifted? Perhaps there is something else on >> irq 10, such as the SCSI controller? My video cards always end up on >> that IRQ, perhaps the computer is still accessible via the network? > >I would expect the IRQ to shift as the system has a different >motherboard/processor than it did in December. > >There are no conflicts, and PCI should be able to share anyways. That's the theory now for some time, has never worked. Even hacking the SCSI driver, any attempted IRQ sharing kills my systems. Even my quad ethernet is not successful at sharing IRQs with itself, in 2+ very different motherboards. >Waht part of this do you fail to grasp? Hehe. The only reason you got a reply from me was that I run video4linux with 2.4 kernels without a problem (or at least I think I do, there are some problems but never when using xawtv). Additionally, I've run the new RAID since the initrd period and mingo's patches have never failed. Any problems with RAID mentioned on the mailing list were always traced to user error. In short, what you were trying to run worked fine here. Replies afterwards were merely some guesses based on the information you supplied. Such as: try pulling out some hardware and seeing if that helps. You need to troubleshoot down to something repeatable in order to get additional help. -- "Or heck, let's just make the VM a _real_ Neural Network, that self trains itself to the load you put on the system. Hideously complex and evil? Well, why not wire up that roach on the floor, eating that stale cheese doodle. It can't do any worse job on VM that some of the VM patches I've seen..." -- Jason McMullan ditto - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: mounting a fs in two places at once?
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Marty Leisner wrote: > Is this a feature or a bug? > > This is with 2.4.2... > feature. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
AMD thunderbird oops
I just upgradede my system to an 1200Mhz AMD Athlon Thundirbird (266Mhz FSB) processor / 512Meg of RAM, and an Asus kt7a motherboard. It is oppsing left and right. I recompiled the kernel with Athelon as the CPU but keep getting these oopses.. I also get these same problems while trying to install RH 7.1 Anyone know is this a supported processor / MB and has anyone had these problems? Joe please cc me as I am not on this list. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
Sorry, but I'm hanging on to my old computer manuals. The AIX manuals in particular have sentimemtal value for me. OTOH, I have quite a few old computer magazines (from the 80's) like Byte, Infoworld, etc. I've been intending to get rid of them for some time now, but hated just to throw them away. They're in storage in a neighboring state right now, but my wife probably will be driving there in the next couple of weeks to pick up a few things. If you're interested, she could bring back the magazines and I can tell you exactly what I have. You're welcome to them if you want them. Wayne Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/24/2001 09:32:43 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec@Altec, John Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Microsoft and Xenix. On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ah, yes, the RT/PC. That brings back some fond memories. My first > exposure to Unix was with AIX on the RT. I still have some of those > weird-sized RT AIX manuals around somewhere... > > Wayne Ooh! Old manuals! Would you be willing to part with them? I am collecting old manuals, and old computing magazines. I even pay for postage, with a bit of warning that they're coming... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: How does ramfs actually fills the page cache with data?
thanks a lot for your reply
But is it at all possible to put data into page cache without going through the inodes
or files? I mean, for example, if you are given a string "abcde", and you want to
allocate a page to store this "abcde" into that page and add that page to the page
cache, what would you do?
2)The ramfs uses the generic file operation
Ingo Oeser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0400, Ho Chak Hung wrote:
> > In fs/ramfs/inode.c, how does ramfs actually fills the page
> > cache with data? In the readpage operation, it only zero-fill
> > the page if it didn't already exist in the page cache. However,
> > how do I actually fill the page with data?
>
> The page cache does it itself.
>
> "readpage" is to move pages from the backing store into the page
> cache.
>
> "writepage" and friends is for updating the backing store with
> the contents of the page cache.
>
> There is no real backing store of ramfs, since ramfs data lives
> completly in page cache.
>
> But we cannot give the user random memory contents, so we zero it
> out on readpage and prepare_write.
>
> The data is copied with copy_{from,to}_user in the generic file
> operations (look how ramfs_file_operations is defined and look at
> the functions referenced), which read/write through page cache.
>
> Regards
>
> Ingo Oeser
> --
> Use ReiserFS to get a faster fsck and Ext2 to fsck slowly and gently.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
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Re: Microsoft and Xenix - Now there's a mailing list for this discussion.
On Sunday 24 June 2001 18:41, Chris Meadors wrote: > Okay, I brushed on GEOS, Microsoft, Xenix, and even Linux. So I'm as on > topic as the rest of this thread. I just have never told my story on l-k, > and this seemed a good place to put a little of it in. :) > > -Chris I just created a mailing list for this discussion attached to one of my existing sourceforge projects. It's [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is sort of an abuse of sourceforge, but then again the project I attached it to is to put together a Linux convention in Austin in 2003 and we'll probably have at least one panel on computer history, and most likely a BOF too, so it's SORT of on topic. :) To subscribe, apparently you go here: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/penguicon-comphist (I've cc'd the people who've emailed me about this topic so far, but haven't subscribed anybody. If you're interested, you have to do it yourself.) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Sunday 24 June 2001 21:45, Jeff Dike wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > > Licklidder wasn't just a bigwig behind arpanet, he also kicked off > > project mac at MIT. > > You're right, but you could at least spell his name right - J. C. R. > Licklider. > > Jeff (who was his last undergraduate thesis supervisee at MIT) What can I say, I'm bad with names? This is why I'm so careful to write them down accurately in my notebook, which is at home. (I have some stuff typed into a text file on my laptop, but it's easier to drag out a notebook and jot something down then to wait 30 seconds for my dell monstrosity's bios to boot up, open a window, cd to the approprite directory, edit a text file, then shut everything down again. I should probably get a palm pilot one of these days... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Sunday 24 June 2001 19:50, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:30:02AM +0200, J . A . Magallon wrote: > > They use fork(). > > They port their app to solaris. > > The performance sucks. > > It is not Solaris fault. > > It is linux fast fork() ... > > One for the quotes page, eh? We're terribly sorry, we'll get busy on > adding some delay loops in Linux so it too can be slow. I'm still working that one out myself... Okay, so Linux programmers are supposed to avoid APIs that are either broken, badly implemented, or missing, on some other platform. That's pretty much all of them, isn't it? Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: What are the VM motivations??
On Monday 25 June 2001 03:46, Russell Leighton wrote: > I read this thread as asking the question: > > If VM management is viewed as an optimization problem, > then what exactly is the function that you are optimizing and what are > the constraints? > > If you could express that well with a even a very loose model, then > the code could be reviewed to see if it was really doing what was intended > and assumptions could be tested. May I suggested an algorithm? - Write down what you think the optimization constraints are. (be specific, for example, enumerate all the flavors of page types - process code, process data, page cache file data, page cache swap cache, anonymous, shmem, etc.) - Write down what you think the current algorithms are. (again, be specific, use file names, function names, pseudocode and snippets of existing code.) - Send it to Rik. He'll tell you if it's right. - Because life is short and should not be boring, cc it to Andrea as well ;-) This way you save everybody's time and ensure you understand what's really going on. Not to mention coming up with a document worth its weight in dilithium crystals. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: mounting a fs in two places at once?
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Marty Leisner wrote: > I just installed redhat 7.1 on a system. > > Cleaning up, a made a fs for home...(mounted on /mnt > to write the stuff to it) > > Then I accidently mounted it on /home. > > So it was mounted on /home and /mnt at the same time. > (I didn't bother going in to see what was there). Same tree, obviously. > Shouldn't this NOT happen? Sigh... Guys, who maintains l-k FAQ? Q: I've mounted filesystem in two different places and it worked. Why? A: Because you've asked to do that. Yes, it works. No, it's not a bug. Q: what should I do to unmount it? A: umount Q: but that took care only of one of them. How can I deal with another? A: umount - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
linux-2.2.19 bugs: scsi hosts:0 and bsd_comp not found
Originator: Stewart Andreason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Synopsis: upgrade from 2.2.16 to 2.2.19 results in 2 failures: Unable to find Adaptec or SCSI CDrom drive Unable to load PPP compression module __clip from successful 2.2.16 boot detected 1 controller(s) aha152x0: vital data: PORTBASE=0x340, IRQ=11, SCSI ID=0, reconnect=enabled, pari ty=enabled, synchronous=disabled, delay=100, extended translation=disabled aha152x: trying software interrupt, ok. scsi0 : Adaptec 152x SCSI driver; $Revision: 1.7 $ scsi : 1 host. Vendor: IBM Model: CDRM00101 !D Rev: 3041 Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 4, lun 0 scsi : detected 1 SCSI generic 1 SCSI cdrom total. Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.09 [snip] PPP BSD Compression module registered __end clip from 2.2.16 __ Linux version 2.2.19 (root@Roxy) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #1 Sun Jun 24 09:52:06 PDT 2001 BIOS-provided physical RAM map: BIOS-e820: 0009f000 @ (usable) BIOS-e820: 03ef @ 0010 (usable) Detected 449243 kHz processor. Console: colour VGA+ 80x25 Calibrating delay loop... 894.56 BogoMIPS Memory: 62916k/65472k available (1156k kernel code, 412k reserved, 940k data, 48 k init) Dentry hash table entries: 8192 (order 4, 64k) Buffer cache hash table entries: 65536 (order 6, 256k) Page cache hash table entries: 16384 (order 4, 64k) Intel machine check architecture supported. Intel machine check reporting enabled on CPU#0. 512K L2 cache (4 way) CPU: L2 Cache: 512K CPU: Intel Pentium III (Katmai) stepping 03 Checking 386/387 coupling... OK, FPU using exception 16 error reporting. Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK. POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX mtrr: v1.35a (19990819) Richard Gooch ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb3b0 PCI: Using configuration type 1 PCI: Probing PCI hardware Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2 Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039 NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0 for Linux NET4.0. NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0 IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP TCP: Hash tables configured (ehash 65536 bhash 65536) Initializing RT netlink socket Starting kswapd v 1.5 parport0: PC-style at 0x378 [SPP,PS2,EPP] Detected PS/2 Mouse Port. Serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured lp0: using parport0 (polling). at 0x220 irq 5 dma 1,5 at 0x330 irq 9 dma 0 at 0x300 irq 5 dma 0 at 0x388 js: Joystick driver v1.2.15 (c) 1999 Vojtech Pavlik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> loop: registered device at major 7 PIIX4: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39 PIIX4: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000-0xf007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008-0xf00f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio hda: ST38410A, ATA DISK drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 hda: ST38410A, 8223MB w/512kB Cache, CHS=1048/255/63, UDMA Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077 scsi : 0 hosts. scsi : detected total. PPP: version 2.3.7 (demand dialling) TCP compression code copyright 1989 Regents of the University of California PPP line discipline registered. PPP BSD Compression module registered PPP Deflate Compression module registered SLIP: version 0.8.4-NET3.019-NEWTTY (dynamic channels, max=256). CSLIP: code copyright 1989 Regents of the University of California. SLIP linefill/keepalive option. 3c59x.c 18Feb01 Donald Becker and others http://www.scyld.com/network/vortex.htm l eth0: 3Com 3c905B Cyclone 100baseTx at 0xe400, 00:50:da:77:55:a2, IRQ 3 8K byte-wide RAM 5:3 Rx:Tx split, autoselect/Autonegotiate interface. MII transceiver found at address 24, status 7849. Enabling bus-master transmits and whole-frame receives. Partition check: hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 hda7 hda8 hda9 > hda2 hda3 VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly. Freeing unused kernel memory: 48k freed INIT: version 2.76 booting Adding Swap: 265032k swap-space (priority -1) /etc/rc.d/rc.S: Testing filesystem status: Read-only file system Parallelizing fsck version 1.15 (18-Jul-1999) /dev/hda5: clean, 6814/26104 files, 58193/104391 blocks /dev/hda9: clean, 139883/1605632 files, 1087371/1604484 blocks Remounting root device with read-write enabled. /dev/hda5 on / type ext2 (rw) /dev/hda9 on /usr type ext2 (rw) /dev/hda2 on /mnt/pcdos type msdos (rw,noexec,nodev,umask=) /dev/hda7 on /mnt/vol5 type msdos (rw,noexec,nodev,umask=) none on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) none on /proc type proc (rw) Updating module dependencies for Linux 2.2.19: can't locate module bsd_comp Setting up IP spoofing protection...done. Activating SYN cookies... done. Setting up IPchains... done. INIT: Entering runlevel: 3 Going multiuser... Configuring eth0 as 192.168.0.103... eth0: Initial media type Autonegotiate. eth0: MII #24 status 7849, link partner capability , setti
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:30:02AM +0200, J . A . Magallon wrote: > shell scripting, for example. Or multithreaded web servers. With the above > test (fork() + immediate exec()), you just try to mesaure the speed of fork(). The benchmark that used lmbench that was posted tested fork follwed fork by exit not follwed by exec. Although you could have used vfork in that test, the point of the test was to get some feel for how much overhead the fork and exit together had. A real application could not use vfork, because it would do some actual work before the exit. > Say you have a fork'ing server. On each connection you fork and exec the > real transfer program. Most forking servers I know of don't exec programs to deal with accepted connections. (The only exception I can think of is inetd and its cousins, the performance of which is not important.) >There time for fork matters. It can run very fast > in Linux but suck in other systems. Just because the programmer chose fork() > instead of vfork(). vfork is not portable. There are standards that specify what it does, but the portable semantics are so useless that if you use it you will almost certainly wind up with undefined behavior. However, the original discussion was about threads. How to do fork+exec (or vfork+exec if you insist on using that broken interface) quickly is beside the point. > >> The clean battle should be linux fork-exec vs vfork-exec in > >> Solaris, because for in linux is really a vfork in solaris. > >But the point of threading is it's a fork WITHOUT an exec. > Not always, see above. You appear to be saying that spawning child programs is an example of threading. I don't think that's what most people mean by threading. Galen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
mounting a fs in two places at once?
I just installed redhat 7.1 on a system. Cleaning up, a made a fs for home...(mounted on /mnt to write the stuff to it) Then I accidently mounted it on /home. So it was mounted on /home and /mnt at the same time. (I didn't bother going in to see what was there). Shouldn't this NOT happen? [root@pb /]# mount /dev/hda9 on / type ext2 (rw) none on /proc type proc (rw) /dev/hda5 on /boot type ext2 (rw) /dev/hda7 on /usr type ext2 (rw) /dev/hda6 on /var type ext2 (rw) none on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) automount(pid603) on /misc type autofs (rw,fd=5,pgrp=603,minproto=2,maxproto=3) pb:(pid704) on /net type nfs (intr,rw,port=1023,timeo=8,retrans=110,indirect,ma p=/etc/amd.net,dev=0007) /dev/hda10 on /mnt type ext2 (rw) /dev/hda10 on /home type ext2 (rw) Is this a feature or a bug? This is with 2.4.2... Marty Leisner [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: What are the VM motivations??
I read this thread as asking the question:
If VM management is viewed as an optimization problem,
then what exactly is the function that you are optimizing and what are the
constraints?
If you could express that well with a even a very loose model, then
the code could be reviewed to see if it was really doing what was intended
and assumptions could be tested.
This seems like a reasonable request.
Jason McMullan wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 12:04:43PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
> > OK. I challenge you to come up with:
> >
> > 1) the set of inputs for the neural network
> > 2) the set of outputs
> > 3) the goal for training the thing
> >
> > I'm pretty fed up with people who want to "change the VM"
> > but never give any details of their ideas.
>
> Uhh. That's not what I was ranting about. What I was
> ranting about is that we have never 'put to paper' the
> requirements ('motiviations') for a good VM, nor have we
> looked at said nonexistent list and figured out what instrumentation
> would be needed.
>
> I don't now that much about VM, but I do know a bunch of
> people each scratching their own itch, and most of them not looking
> at the bigger picture. Linus, RvR, etc. excepted. Mostly. ;^)
>
> The whole 'neural network' bit was mostly troll. Sorry,
> I got a little carried away at that point.
>
> --
> Jason McMullan, Senior Linux Consultant
> Linuxcare, Inc. 412.432.6457 tel, 412.656.3519 cell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.linuxcare.com/
> Linuxcare. Putting open source to work.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
--
---
Russell Leighton[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
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Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Sunday 24 June 2001 18:30, J . A . Magallon wrote: > Take a programmer comming from other system to linux. If he wants multi- > threading and protable code, he will choose pthreads. And you say to him: > do it with 'clone', it is better. Answer: non protable. Again: do it > with fork(), it is fast in linux. Answer: better for linux, but it is a > real pain in other systems. So we should be as bad as other systems? I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here... > And worst, you are allowing people to program based on a tool that will > give VERY diferent performance when ported to other systems. They use > fork(). They port their app to solaris. The performance sucks. It is not > Solaris fault. It is linux fast fork() that makes people not looking for > the correct standard tool for what they want todo. Hang on, the fact the LInux implementation of something is 10x faster than somebody else's brain damaged implementation is Linux's fault? On Linux, there is no real difference between threads and processes. On some other systems, there is unnecessary overhead for processes. "Threads" are from a programming perspective multiple points of execution that share an awful lot of state. Which basically, processes can be if you tell them to share this state. >From a system perspective threads are a hack to avoid a lot of the overhead processes have poisoning caches and setting up and tearing down page tables and such. Linux processes don't have this level of overhead. So -ON LINUX- there isn't much difference between threads and processes. Because the process overhead threads try to avoid has been optimized away, and thus there is a real world implementation of the two concepts which behaves in an extremely similar manner. Thus the conceptual difference between the two is mostly either artificial or irrelevant, certainly in this context. If there is a context without this difference, then in other contexts it would appear to be an artifact of implementation. On Solaris there is a difference between threads and processes, but the reason is that Solaris' processes are inefficient (and shown by the benchmarks you don't seem to like). > Instead of trying to enhance linux thread support, you try to move > programmes to use linux 'specialities'. No, I'm saying Linux processes right now have 90% of the features of thread support as is, and the remaining differences are mostly semantic. It would be fairly easy to take an API like the OS/2 threading model and put it on Linux. From what I remember of the OS/2 threading model, we're talking about a couple hours worth of work. Adding support for the Posix model is harder, but from what I've seen of the Posix model this is because it's evil and requires a lot of things that don't really have much to do with the concept of threading. I will admit that Linux (or the traditional unix programming model) has some things that don't mesh well with the abstract thread programming model. Signals, for example. But since the traditional abstract threads model doesn't try to handle signals at ALL that I am aware of (OS/2 didn't, Dunno about NT. Posix has some strange duct-tape solution I'm not entirely familiar with... In java you can kill or suspend a thread which is IMPLEMENTED with signals but conceptually discrete...) > >> That is comparing apples and oranges. > > > >Show me a real-world program that makes the distinction you're making. > >Something in actual use. > > shell scripting, for example. You've done multi-threaded shell scripting? I tried to use bash with multiple processes and ran into the fact that $$ always gives the root process's PID, and nobody had ever apparently decided that this was dumb behavior... > Or multithreaded web servers. Apache has a thread pool, you know. Keeps the suckers around... > With the above > test (fork() + immediate exec()), you just try to mesaure the speed of > fork(). Say you have a fork'ing server. On each connection you fork and > exec the real transfer program. Like a CGI script, you mean? Not using mod_perl or mode_php but shelling out? And you're worried about performance? > There time for fork matters. It can run > very fast in Linux but suck in other systems. And this is linux's problem, is it? > Just because the programmer > chose fork() instead of vfork(). So "#define fork vfork" would not be part of the "#ifdef slowaris" block then? I'm still a bit unclear about what the behavior differences of them actualy are. I believe vfork is the hack that goes really funny if you DON'T exec immediately after calling it. Yet the argument here was about THREADS, which don't DO that. So the entire discussion is a red herring. If you're going to fork and then exec, you're not having multiple points of execution in the same program. Linux can do this efficiently on a process level because its fork is efficient (and it has clone() which allows more control over
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Rob Landley wrote: > I know the geos had nothing to do with digital, it started as a > windowing GUI for the commodore 64, if you can believe that... I've actually got a copy, but it's for the Apple // :} - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
broken 2.2 IDE CD-RW (was Re: plain 2.2.X: no ide CD-RW?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guest section DW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 01:42:38AM -0600, Anil B. Somayaji wrote: > > > For a while now, I've been running a 2.4 kernel, but (for my research) > > I need to now run a 2.2 kernel. I was hoping to just run a stock > > 2.2.19, but I've found that I can't use my CD-RW drive, either as a > > plain IDE cdrom, or as a scsi-emulated one. (I have ide-scsi, ide-cd, > > and scsi all as modules.) > > > > I have these problems with 2.2.1[7-9] & 2.2.20pre5. However, if I add > > one of the IDE patches, all is well. 2.4 kernels have never given me > > these sorts of problems. > > Probably easy to sort out if you tell us which ide patch (with URL) > you apply to make it work. Sorry, I was referring to the backport of the 2.4 IDE code to 2.2. I'm currently using ide.2.2.19.05042001 successfully, which I got from: ftp://ftp.us.kernel.org:/pub/linux/kernel/people/hedrick/ide-2.2.19 I've used several similar patches, though. Stock 2.4 kernels work fine with my CD-RW as well; however, I've now discovered that plain 2.2 kernels do not. This could easily be a long-standing problem, probably at least a year old - I've only recently stumbled across it, though. Since I have a solution (use the 2.4 IDE backport), this isn't critical; however, since many people still rely on 2.2, and I'd like to use a stock 2.2 kernel if possible, I'm willing to spend some time debugging this. Thanks! --Anil (A bit of background: Before I got my CD-RW drive last summer, I bought an OnStream DI-30 drive. This drive was then only supported on 2.2 with the 2.4 IDE backport, and so I've used this drive successfully with 2.2.16 + 2.4 IDE patch, and a similar combination since. Since stock 2.2.19+ now support this drive through the osst patch, I thought I'd try it out. It does work, but at the cost of losing my CD-RW.) - -- Anil Somayaji ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~soma +1 505 872 3150 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAjs2h2AACgkQXOpXEmNZ3SfOlwCfb+it3YQrmO2e9q14AZMhcdZo M+0An3Mi8aoEkvjD5vhC3Hc6yaICrMDE =cV6C -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: replay on read-only filesystem
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Anthony Heading wrote: > Did you get a satisfactory answer? I'd be interested to know... Here's what I got from Alan. I've "crashed" my system quite a quite time by yanking out the power plug, and so far, the system is still ok. Much better than ext2 as there's no fsck. Jeff -- From: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > what's the impact of mounting reiserfs as Read-Only (specified in fstab)? > >From syslog ... > > Jun 24 01:10:30 boston kernel: Warning, log replay starting on readonly > filesystem > > Is this a problem? In normal configurations it shouldnt be. Both ext3 and reiserfs currently have the problem that they need to replay the log to get a stable file system. Obviously you cant replay the log to disk if its read only, so they replay the log to disk read/write then mount the fixed fs read only. It breaks if your hardware has given up writing (certain disk fails) or if you are running the swsuspend patch (serious disk corruption) but really the swsusp patch interaction is the only problem one - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
> BTW, after all I have read all POSIX threads library should be no more than > a wrapper over fork(), clone and so on. Why are they so bad then ? > I am going to get glibc source to see what is inside pthread_create... If I recall it had to do with problems in signal delivery... -- Gerhard Mack [EMAIL PROTECTED] <>< As a computer I find your faith in technology amusing. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: sizeof problem in kernel modules
On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 10:43:14PM -0400, Richard B. Johnson wrote: > Previous to the "Draft" "Proposal" of C98, there were no such > requirements. And so-called ANSI -C specifically declined to > define any order within structures. As one of the founding members of the X3J11 ANSI committee, and having served on the committee for 10 1/2 years, I can state categorically that Appendix A of the original K&R (which was one of the 3 base documents for ANSI C) had the requirement that non-bitfield fields are required to have monotonically increasing addresses (bitfields don't have addresses, and different compiler ABIs do lay them out in different fashions within the words). C89 never changed the wording that mandates this. -- Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc. (GCC group) PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +1 978-486-9304 Non-work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax: +1 978-692-4482 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan wrote: > > > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in > files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try > and write such a tool 8) KDE-2.2 will do this. I have KDE-2.2alpha2 running here (beta1 is around the corner) and it has it included. I looked at it but didn't tested it, yet. KDE Control Center --> System --> Linux Kernel Configurator > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or > > cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new > > distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. SUN Enterprise IBM S/390 (zSeries) etc... -Dieter - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Is it useful to support user level drivers
"Richard B. Johnson" wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Anders Larsen wrote: > > > "Richard B. Johnson" wrote: > > > > > > QNX does not have any difference between user-space and kernel space. > > > It's not paged-virtual. It's just one big sheet of address space > > > with no memory protection (everything is shared). All procedures > > > to be executed are known at compile time. > > > > That's completely, utterly untrue. > > QNX does indeed sport paged-virtual memory with memory protection; > > (although QNX4 does not support swap). > > Then QNX is not the QNX that I have used. Or you haven't used it recently (= within the past 10 years) > > User-mode interrupts are standard procedure; the deadlock problems > > Alan has mentioned do not apply, since any running process is > > always resident in memory. > > Shared regions have to be explicitly created; access is *not* open > > to anybody. > > > > Nothing has to be known at "compile time"; QNX is a full-featured > > OS with dynamic loading. > > > > The QNX that I have used, advertised as QNX, and been around since > 32-bit ix86 was available, is EXACTLY as I stated. Dynamic loading of executables has been in QNX for as long as I know it (fifteen years). With the appearance of QNX version 4 some ten years ago came 32-bit address space, full memory management/protection etc. > > > Therefore, any piece of code can do anything it wants including > > > handling hardware directly. > > > > Again not true; only privileged processes can enter kernel mode > > to execute port I/O instructions directly. > > The QNX that I have used, again is EXACTLY as stated. It must have been an early QNX version 2, then. QNX 2 did not have any memory protection. > If you have used a different QNX, then QNX has either changed > radically, or is a different company/QNX than what I used. > And, I had a lot of good experiences with it since standard > I/O was provided, as was boot, but it was an open book otherwise > in which you were not prevented from doing anything you wanted > to do, at any instant you wanted to do it. Of course QNX has changes radically over the decades (it's been around for some twenty years now); what I frowned at was that you made your statements as if they would apply to the *current* state of affairs, which they certainly do not. cheers Anders -- "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On 20010625 Larry McVoy wrote: > >One for the quotes page, eh? We're terribly sorry, we'll get busy on adding >some delay loops in Linux so it too can be slow. >-- I was afraid someone would tell that... I just want to say that the 'problem' is not that threads are slow in linux, but that others ways are faster than they 'should be if done the standard way'. BTW, after all I have read all POSIX threads library should be no more than a wrapper over fork(), clone and so on. Why are they so bad then ? I am going to get glibc source to see what is inside pthread_create... -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac17 #2 SMP Fri Jun 22 01:36:07 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: FAT32 superiority over ext2 :-)
On Monday 25 June 2001 01:49, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > Daniel Phillips writes: > > On Monday 25 June 2001 00:54, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > >> By dumb luck (?), FAT32 is compatible with the phase-tree algorithm > >> as seen in Tux2. This means it offers full data integrity. > >> Yep, it whips your typical journalling filesystem. Look at what > >> we have in the superblock (boot sector): > >> > >> __u32 fat32_length; /* sectors/FAT */ > >> __u16 flags; /* bit 8: fat mirroring, low 4: active fat */ > >> __u8 version[2];/* major, minor filesystem version */ > >> __u32 root_cluster; /* first cluster in root directory */ > >> __u16 info_sector; /* filesystem info sector */ > >> > >> All in one atomic write, one can... > >> > >> 1. change the active FAT > >> 2. change the root directory > >> 3. change the free space count > >> > >> That's enough to atomically move from one phase to the next. > >> You create new directories in the free space, and make FAT > >> changes to an inactive FAT copy. Then you write the superblock > >> to atomically transition to the next phase. > > > > Yes, FAT is what inspired me to go develop the algorithm. However, two > > words: 'lost clusters'. Now that may just be an implemenation detail ;-) > > What lost clusters? > > Set bit 8 of "flags" (A_BF_BPBExtFlags to Microsoft) to disable > FAT mirroring. Then the low 4 bits are a 0-based value that > indicates which copy of the FAT should be used. > > Assume we have 2 copies of the FAT, as is (was?) common. I'll call > them X and Y. When we mount the filesystem, we disable FAT mirroring > and mark FAT X active. > > Now we can make changes to FAT Y without affecting filesystem > integrity. Windows will not use FAT Y. As is usual with the > phase-tree algorithm, we use free space to create a new structure > beside the old one. > > Time for a phase change: > > We have FAT Y, currently inactive, updated on disk. > FAT X is active; it describes the current on-disk state. > We have a new root directory on disk, sitting in free space. > We have a new filesystem info sector on disk, sitting in free space. > > We write one single sector, then: > > FAT X becomes inactive, and will not be used by Windows. > FAT Y becomes active; it describes the new on-disk state. > The old root directory is marked free in FAT Y. Good! > The old filesystem info sector is marked free in FAT Y. Good! > > Once the superblock goes to disk, FAT X may be written to. When can we expect the patch? -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:30:02AM +0200, J . A . Magallon wrote: > They use fork(). > They port their app to solaris. > The performance sucks. > It is not Solaris fault. > It is linux fast fork() ... One for the quotes page, eh? We're terribly sorry, we'll get busy on adding some delay loops in Linux so it too can be slow. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: FAT32 superiority over ext2 :-)
Daniel Phillips writes: > On Monday 25 June 2001 00:54, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: >> By dumb luck (?), FAT32 is compatible with the phase-tree algorithm >> as seen in Tux2. This means it offers full data integrity. >> Yep, it whips your typical journalling filesystem. Look at what >> we have in the superblock (boot sector): >> >> __u32 fat32_length; /* sectors/FAT */ >> __u16 flags; /* bit 8: fat mirroring, low 4: active fat */ >> __u8 version[2];/* major, minor filesystem version */ >> __u32 root_cluster; /* first cluster in root directory */ >> __u16 info_sector; /* filesystem info sector */ >> >> All in one atomic write, one can... >> >> 1. change the active FAT >> 2. change the root directory >> 3. change the free space count >> >> That's enough to atomically move from one phase to the next. >> You create new directories in the free space, and make FAT >> changes to an inactive FAT copy. Then you write the superblock >> to atomically transition to the next phase. > > Yes, FAT is what inspired me to go develop the algorithm. However, two > words: 'lost clusters'. Now that may just be an implemenation detail ;-) What lost clusters? Set bit 8 of "flags" (A_BF_BPBExtFlags to Microsoft) to disable FAT mirroring. Then the low 4 bits are a 0-based value that indicates which copy of the FAT should be used. Assume we have 2 copies of the FAT, as is (was?) common. I'll call them X and Y. When we mount the filesystem, we disable FAT mirroring and mark FAT X active. Now we can make changes to FAT Y without affecting filesystem integrity. Windows will not use FAT Y. As is usual with the phase-tree algorithm, we use free space to create a new structure beside the old one. Time for a phase change: We have FAT Y, currently inactive, updated on disk. FAT X is active; it describes the current on-disk state. We have a new root directory on disk, sitting in free space. We have a new filesystem info sector on disk, sitting in free space. We write one single sector, then: FAT X becomes inactive, and will not be used by Windows. FAT Y becomes active; it describes the new on-disk state. The old root directory is marked free in FAT Y. Good! The old filesystem info sector is marked free in FAT Y. Good! Once the superblock goes to disk, FAT X may be written to. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: GCC3.0 Produce REALLY slower code!
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Rik van Riel wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Alexander V. Bilichenko wrote: > > > Some tests that I have recently check out. kernel compiled with > > 3.0 (2.4.5) function call: 100 iteration. 3% slower than > > 2.95. test example - hash table add/remove - 4% slower (compiled > > both with -O2 -march=i686). > > > Why have this version been released? > > It would be better to ask that to the GCC people, but I > suspect it was released because it was (almost) stable > and the only way to do the last small tweaks to the code > would be to have it tested in the field ? > Actually I think the just one very good reason to use gcc 3.0 is if you are programming using C++. It's a kind of paradise for C++ programmers. So I had to install it on my servers used by C++ programmers, they were so happy... To use C, it's better to avoid gcc 3.0, it's just slower. All bench i did, it's slower about 3/5% depending on the kind of code. It is faster just on some floating point with really small code, (I used optimizzations for athlon CPU). Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Threads are processes that share more
On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 01:10:31AM +0200, J . A . Magallon wrote:
>
> On 20010621 Stephen Satchell wrote:
> >
> >By the way, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a synonym for "thread"
> >is "lightweight process".
> >
>
> In linux. Perhaps this the fault.
> In IRIX, you have sprocs and threads. sprocs have independent pids and you
> can control what you share (mappings, fd table...). Threads group under
> same pid.
I think that's accurate.
> Linux chose the sproc way...
That's not accurate. The Linux way is an infinitely nicer architecture.
For each thing that is shareable you have code like
vm_fork(... flags)
{
if (flags & VM_SHARE) return;
do the work to fork the data structure
}
In other words, it's designed to be shared. The IRIX stuff is disgusting,
you really don't want anything to do with sproc().It _sounds_ like they
are the same but they aren't - for example, with sproc you get your very
own TLB miss handler. Doesn't that sound special?
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm
-
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More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:30:02AM +0200, J . A . Magallon wrote: > Take a programmer comming from other system to linux. If he wants multi- > threading and protable code, he will choose pthreads. And you say to him: > do it with 'clone', it is better. Answer: non protable. Again: do it > with fork(), it is fast in linux. Answer: better for linux, but it is a > real pain in other systems. > > And worst, you are allowing people to program based on a tool that will give > VERY diferent performance when ported to other systems. They use fork(). > They port their app to solaris. The performance sucks. It is not Solaris > fault. It is linux fast fork() that makes people not looking for the > correct standard tool for what they want todo. This sounds to my like "Linux is making other OSes look bad. Cut it out." -- -Steven In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: GCC3.0 Produce REALLY slower code!
On Monday 25 June 2001 00:44, Alexander V. Bilichenko wrote: > Hello All! > Some tests that I have recently check out. > kernel compiled with 3.0 (2.4.5) function call: 100 iteration. 3% > slower than 2.95. > test example - hash table add/remove - 4% slower (compiled both > with -O2 -march=i686). > Why have this version been released? > Best regards, > Alexander mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Err, thanks for the benchmarks, but how does this qualify as 'really' slower? Disassemblies of the inner loops would be very informative. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: FAT32 superiority over ext2 :-)
On Monday 25 June 2001 00:54, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > By dumb luck (?), FAT32 is compatible with the phase-tree algorithm > as seen in Tux2. This means it offers full data integrity. > Yep, it whips your typical journalling filesystem. Look at what > we have in the superblock (boot sector): > > __u32 fat32_length; /* sectors/FAT */ > __u16 flags; /* bit 8: fat mirroring, low 4: active fat */ > __u8 version[2];/* major, minor filesystem version */ > __u32 root_cluster; /* first cluster in root directory */ > __u16 info_sector; /* filesystem info sector */ > > All in one atomic write, one can... > > 1. change the active FAT > 2. change the root directory > 3. change the free space count > > That's enough to atomically move from one phase to the next. > You create new directories in the free space, and make FAT > changes to an inactive FAT copy. Then you write the superblock > to atomically transition to the next phase. Yes, FAT is what inspired me to go develop the algorithm. However, two words: 'lost clusters'. Now that may just be an implemenation detail ;-) -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilson wrote: > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I do not understand the point. > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Unusefull and dangerous. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig To compile a kernel someone should be able to run correctly make. Don't you think so? Also my girlfriend, who never saw a Unix system before, after a couple days spended reading during free time some documentation and help files (4 hours in two days I think) has been able to compile and install a new kernel. > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? This is an old discussion. I hope it will never be. (just my own 2 cents). > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Is it possible at all?? Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH] catch potential null derefs in drivers/char/ip2main.c (245ac16)
On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 11:06:06PM +0200, Rasmus Andersen wrote:
> Hi.
> (My last mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounced. Is there another
> maintainer for drivers/char/ip2main.c somewhere?)
I'm still here. :-) Just look one more line down below
Doug's line. There I am.
I'm responsible for the kernel / driver integration end of it
anyways.
I'll find out what's up with Doug, but this is my issue to deal
with anyways. And yes, I'm looking at it. I've got a couple of other
patches on the back burner that are overdue for integration.
> The patch below tries to avoid dereferencing (potential)
> NULL pointers. It was reported by the Stanford team way
> back and applies against 245ac16 and 246p6. It could
> probably be done nicer but that would take someone that
> actually understands this code.
> --- linux-245-ac16-clean/drivers/char/ip2main.c Sat May 19 20:58:17 2001
> +++ linux-245-ac16/drivers/char/ip2main.c Sun Jun 24 22:37:27 2001
> @@ -866,36 +866,38 @@
> }
>
> #ifdef CONFIG_DEVFS_FS
> - sprintf( name, "ipl%d", i );
> - i2BoardPtrTable[i]->devfs_ipl_handle =
> - devfs_register (devfs_handle, name,
> - DEVFS_FL_DEFAULT,
> - IP2_IPL_MAJOR, 4 * i,
> - S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP | S_IFCHR,
> - &ip2_ipl, NULL);
> + if (i2BoardPtrTable[i] && pB) {
> + sprintf( name, "ipl%d", i );
> + i2BoardPtrTable[i]->devfs_ipl_handle =
> + devfs_register (devfs_handle, name,
> + DEVFS_FL_DEFAULT,
> + IP2_IPL_MAJOR, 4 * i,
> + S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP |
>S_IFCHR,
> + &ip2_ipl, NULL);
>
> - sprintf( name, "stat%d", i );
> - i2BoardPtrTable[i]->devfs_stat_handle =
> - devfs_register (devfs_handle, name,
> - DEVFS_FL_DEFAULT,
> - IP2_IPL_MAJOR, 4 * i + 1,
> - S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP | S_IFCHR,
> - &ip2_ipl, NULL);
> + sprintf( name, "stat%d", i );
> + i2BoardPtrTable[i]->devfs_stat_handle =
> + devfs_register (devfs_handle, name,
> + DEVFS_FL_DEFAULT,
> + IP2_IPL_MAJOR, 4 * i + 1,
> + S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP |
>S_IFCHR,
> + &ip2_ipl, NULL);
>
> - for ( box = 0; box < ABS_MAX_BOXES; ++box )
> - {
> - for ( j = 0; j < ABS_BIGGEST_BOX; ++j )
> - {
> - if ( pB->i2eChannelMap[box] & (1 << j) )
> + for ( box = 0; box < ABS_MAX_BOXES; ++box )
> {
> - tty_register_devfs(&ip2_tty_driver,
> - 0, j + ABS_BIGGEST_BOX *
> - (box+i*ABS_MAX_BOXES));
> - tty_register_devfs(&ip2_callout_driver,
> - 0, j + ABS_BIGGEST_BOX *
> - (box+i*ABS_MAX_BOXES));
> + for ( j = 0; j < ABS_BIGGEST_BOX; ++j )
> + {
> + if ( pB->i2eChannelMap[box] & (1 << j)
>)
> + {
> +
>tty_register_devfs(&ip2_tty_driver,
> +0, j +
>ABS_BIGGEST_BOX *
> +
>(box+i*ABS_MAX_BOXES));
> +
>tty_register_devfs(&ip2_callout_driver,
> +0, j +
>ABS_BIGGEST_BOX *
> +
>(box+i*ABS_MAX_BOXES));
> + }
> + }
> }
> - }
> }
> #endif
>
> --
> Regards,
> Rasmus([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
>
Re: [OT] gcc 2.95.2 vs. 3.0 (fwd)
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, J . A . Magallon wrote: > Sure it is opendivx ? I think you are just using gcc compiled code for > the 'interface' and 'glue' to windows divx decoders (/usr/lib/win32/*.dll) > that do the real hard work. Have a look at mplayer.sourceforge.net. MPlayer besides DLL loading also features native Opendivx en/decoding, and native MPEG1/2 decoding. Actually the tests were performed by the leader of the development of mplayer, and he did compile the whole opendivx encore/decore code used in this player, taken from the original sources. > Redo the tests with am MPEG2 movie. Actually since the original posting, on the mplayer-devel list the maintainer of mpeg2play (the portable parts of mplayer as a separate player, w/o the dll stuff) also tested how well MPEG1/2 decoding works if compiled w/ gcc 2.95.2 vs 3.0, and he was disappointed too, because there was a slight decrease in the performanceof the generated code... If you want proof of these, grab the C sources from the mentioned sourceforge project site, and repeat the test yourself. -- SaPE - Peter, Sasi - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://sape.iq.rulez.org/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
FAT32 superiority over ext2 :-)
By dumb luck (?), FAT32 is compatible with the phase-tree algorithm as seen in Tux2. This means it offers full data integrity. Yep, it whips your typical journalling filesystem. Look at what we have in the superblock (boot sector): __u32 fat32_length; /* sectors/FAT */ __u16 flags; /* bit 8: fat mirroring, low 4: active fat */ __u8 version[2];/* major, minor filesystem version */ __u32 root_cluster; /* first cluster in root directory */ __u16 info_sector; /* filesystem info sector */ All in one atomic write, one can... 1. change the active FAT 2. change the root directory 3. change the free space count That's enough to atomically move from one phase to the next. You create new directories in the free space, and make FAT changes to an inactive FAT copy. Then you write the superblock to atomically transition to the next phase. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: GCC3.0 Produce REALLY slower code!
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Alexander V. Bilichenko wrote: > Some tests that I have recently check out. kernel compiled with > 3.0 (2.4.5) function call: 100 iteration. 3% slower than > 2.95. test example - hash table add/remove - 4% slower (compiled > both with -O2 -march=i686). > Why have this version been released? It would be better to ask that to the GCC people, but I suspect it was released because it was (almost) stable and the only way to do the last small tweaks to the code would be to have it tested in the field ? Rik -- Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release: "we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)" http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
GCC3.0 Produce REALLY slower code!
Hello All! Some tests that I have recently check out. kernel compiled with 3.0 (2.4.5) function call: 100 iteration. 3% slower than 2.95. test example - hash table add/remove - 4% slower (compiled both with -O2 -march=i686). Why have this version been released? Best regards, Alexander mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [OT] gcc 2.95.2 vs. 3.0 (fwd)
On 20010624 Sasi Peter wrote: > >I know opendivx code is not like kernel code at all, but on the other hand >it is well suited for benchmark testing. > > >test file: (opendivx with postprocessing, this stuff is written in C) ># mplayer -osdlevel 0 -nosound -benchmark 1800.avi -vo null -pp 15 >VIDEO: [divx] 640x352 24bpp 23.98 fps 1865.1 kbps (227.7 kbyte/s) > Sure it is opendivx ? I think you are just using gcc compiled code for the 'interface' and 'glue' to windows divx decoders (/usr/lib/win32/*.dll) that do the real hard work. Redo the tests with am MPEG2 movie. -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac17 #2 SMP Fri Jun 22 01:36:07 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Rob Landley wrote: > I know the geos had nothing to do with digital, it started as a windowing GUI > for the commodore 64, if you can believe that... Not only can I belive it, but I was going to bring it up the first time GEOS was mentioned. Having only used Macs (in school) for file operations (I had loaded games off a TSR-80 datasette). I couldn't follow copying/deleting/renaming files by typing commands when my family finally got me a C64. So I relied heavily on GEOS. I even got one of those touch pads to move the cursor around the screen. When my dad finally got a PC in 1991 it had MS-DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 on it. I didn't like Windows too much, but still found DOS awkward (still using Macs in school). I started using dosshell a lot for file operations. But when I saw an ad for GEOS in a computer mag. I was so happy. I ended up using that for a while. But more and more programs required Windows, and that made me mad. There was one book that totally changed my life. I can't remember the correct title, but it was something to the effect of Secrets to the DOS Gurus. After reading that book, I fell in love with the command line interface. Everything started making sense. Somewhere along the line, I think 1994 I started working for the Maryland state government at a Healt Department. They were running Xenix (SCO, the 2 names were interchanged a lot) on a 386. A few of the "important" people had serial lines run to their Win 3.1 PCs where they'd use Telix to run the database programs on the Xenix box. As I watched people work on in Xenix I recognized a lot of the commands I had picked up using the Delphi online service. I had a neighbor that showed me some stuff I could do if I chose the Exit to Shell option. In 1995 still working for the Health Department I got to go to my first trade show, FOSE. I met and heavily impressed a lot of booth workers. One such booth was Microsoft. I was invited to participate in their beta program for the upcoming Windows 95 (I was one of the "lucky" people who didn't have to pay for their betas). I used the Win95 betas for a while. But something happened that year. I got a Linux Unleashed book from SAMS. It included a copy of Slackware. I installed that along side my Win95, and when I saw how fast Doom loaded I was in love. I vowed that on August 24, 1995 I would delete Windows from my machine and never use it again. Well I can't say that I have held complete faithful to that vow, but I have had Linux on my machine ever since then. Now my computer is Windows free and has been for a year and a half. Okay, I brushed on GEOS, Microsoft, Xenix, and even Linux. So I'm as on topic as the rest of this thread. I just have never told my story on l-k, and this seemed a good place to put a little of it in. :) -Chris -- Two penguins were walking on an iceberg. The first penguin said to the second, "you look like you are wearing a tuxedo." The second penguin said, "I might be..." --David Lynch, Twin Peaks - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in > files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try > and write such a tool 8) "make xconfig" is alerady very nice. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [patch] rio500 devfs support
Here's an updated version of the patch - the only real difference is
that rio500.c will printk an error message if devfs_register() fails.
I left that out originally because devfs logs the error, but it's
probably a good idea to indicate which driver made the request.
Cheers!
On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 05:52:24PM -0500, Gregory T. Norris wrote:
> The attached diff adds devfs support to the rio500 driver, so that
> /dev/usb/rio500 gets created automagically. It was generated against
> 2.4.5, but probably applies fine against any recent kernel. Comments
> are welcome (but be gentle, this is my first attempt at a kernel
> patch :-).
>
> Cheers!
diff -urN linux-2.4.5.orig/drivers/usb/rio500.c linux-2.4.5/drivers/usb/rio500.c
--- linux-2.4.5.orig/drivers/usb/rio500.c Sun Jun 24 16:29:35 2001
+++ linux-2.4.5/drivers/usb/rio500.cSun Jun 24 16:45:08 2001
@@ -38,6 +38,7 @@
#include
#include
#include
+#include
#include "rio500_usb.h"
@@ -70,6 +71,7 @@
};
static struct rio_usb_data rio_instance;
+static devfs_handle_t rio500_devfs_handle;
static int open_rio(struct inode *inode, struct file *file)
{
@@ -492,6 +494,14 @@
if (usb_register(&rio_driver) < 0)
return -1;
+ rio500_devfs_handle = devfs_register(NULL, "usb/rio500",
+ DEVFS_FL_DEFAULT,
+ USB_MAJOR, RIO_MINOR,
+ S_IFCHR | S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP |
+S_IWGRP,
+ &usb_rio_fops, NULL);
+ if (rio500_devfs_handle == NULL)
+ printk(KERN_WARNING __FILE__ ": unable to register /dev/usb/rio500
+with devfs\n");
+
info(DRIVER_VERSION " " DRIVER_AUTHOR);
info(DRIVER_DESC);
@@ -506,6 +516,8 @@
rio->present = 0;
usb_deregister(&rio_driver);
+ if (rio500_devfs_handle != NULL)
+ devfs_unregister(rio500_devfs_handle);
}
PGP signature
Re: GCC3.0 support: Kernel 2.4.5 compilation troubles
On 20010624 Alan Cox wrote: > >2. Look back in the kernel archives and you'll find some patches for > the warnings about multi-line string literals in asm blocks > Are there any plans to standarise asm inline code, for example in Documentation/CodingStyle (of course, in good friendship with gcc-3.0). -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac17 #2 SMP Fri Jun 22 01:36:07 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On 20010624 Rob Landley wrote: > >This is a bit like like saying that a truck and a train are totally different >beasts. If I'm trying to haul cargo from point A to point B, which is served >by both, all I care about is how long it takes and how much it costs. > >I don't care what it was INTENDED to do. A rock makes a decent hammer. So >does a crescent wrench. The question is how good a tool is it for the uses >we're trying to put it to? > Well, the problem is that when somebody says you it has a truck to take your cargo, you have your idea of a truck, and there is a standard idea of the difference between a train and a truck. Tools have been developed for multi-processing in unix, processes and threads. And have a difference. And when you design your algorithm (and more if you want it to be protable), you think if you want it done with processes or you need threads (posix, or lwps or whatever). And you decide it on the standard idea of what a process and a thread are. Take a programmer comming from other system to linux. If he wants multi- threading and protable code, he will choose pthreads. And you say to him: do it with 'clone', it is better. Answer: non protable. Again: do it with fork(), it is fast in linux. Answer: better for linux, but it is a real pain in other systems. And worst, you are allowing people to program based on a tool that will give VERY diferent performance when ported to other systems. They use fork(). They port their app to solaris. The performance sucks. It is not Solaris fault. It is linux fast fork() that makes people not looking for the correct standard tool for what they want todo. Instead of trying to enhance linux thread support, you try to move programmes to use linux 'specialities'. >> This remembers on other question I read in this thread (I tried to answer >> then but I had broke balsa...). Somebody posted some benchmarks of linux >> fork()+exec() vs Solaris fork()+exec(). > >What programs does this make a difference in? These are tools meant to be >used. What real-world usage causes them to differ? If a reasonably >competent programmer ported a program from one platform to another, is this >the behavior they would expect to see (without a major rewrite of the code)? > >> That is comparing apples and oranges. > >Show me a real-world program that makes the distinction you're making. >Something in actual use. > shell scripting, for example. Or multithreaded web servers. With the above test (fork() + immediate exec()), you just try to mesaure the speed of fork(). Say you have a fork'ing server. On each connection you fork and exec the real transfer program. There time for fork matters. It can run very fast in Linux but suck in other systems. Just because the programmer chose fork() instead of vfork(). >> The clean battle should be linux fork-exec vs vfork-exec in >> Solaris, because for in linux is really a vfork in solaris. > >But the point of threading is it's a fork WITHOUT an exec. > Not always, see above. > >I'm not going to comment on the difference between fork and vfork becaue to >be honest I've forgotten what the difference is. Something to do with Time. -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac17 #2 SMP Fri Jun 22 01:36:07 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM tons of info out there. http://www.tce.co.jp/linux/ http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ http://support.toshiba-tro.de/internet/info/linux/linleft.htm I've a 3010CT too, and everything is working fine including X and the LAN under linux. > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Look at loadlin + initrd. You'll have to reboot, but at least you don't need a floppy and no CD. Store your test and stable kernels on dos C drive, and boot up which ever one you like. I use a ramdisk to test my kernels so that it does not affect my stable linux on my hard disk. I do 80% of my stuffs on Linux including accessing mainframe from linux. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Monday 25 June 2001 00:12, Alan Cox wrote: > > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > > > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > > > That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', > > no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. > > They > > The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something > like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still > works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with > BrowseX as the web browser. > > That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, > and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with > the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 /me downloads xfce -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[OT] Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Sunday 24 June 2001 12:36, Rob Landley wrote: > On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:47, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > GEM was a gui from Digital Research I believe. > > Geoworks/Geos was a seperate entity. > > Ah, the DR-DOS answer to dosshell/windows. Cool. (I used Dr. Dos byt > never tried its gui.) GEM had its moment of glory when Xerox used it for the gui of Ventura Publisher. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. > I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. > If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the > stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. That is generally a good idea. Always keep at least one known working kernel around. Its something some distro docs don't IMHO make clear enough - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Good day, John, Alan, On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in Buildkernel, at http://buildkernel.stearns.org . It handles the entire build process, from finger to lilo. Not a gui, alas, but certainly reduces the amount of effort involved. Cheers, - Bill --- "She worked with a subdued intensity... She once told me that the only way to know when you have done something truly great is when your spine tingles." - on Alice Kober, cryptanalist, in The Code Book, Simon Singh. -- William Stearns ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Mason, Buildkernel, named2hosts, and ipfwadm2ipchains are at:http://www.pobox.com/~wstearns LinuxMonth; articles for Linux Enthusiasts! http://www.linuxmonth.com -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[PATCH] fix accounting of memory_pressure
Hi,
the attached patch makes sure to only increase memory_pressure
in cases we actually found a page, this prevents the inactive
target from rising to infinite in case we don't have any
inactive_clean pages in the system...
(observed in testing)
regards,
Rik
--
Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release:
"we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)"
http://www.surriel.com/
http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/
--- linux-2.4.5-ac17/mm/page_alloc.c.unlazy Sun Jun 24 19:03:03 2001
+++ linux-2.4.5-ac17/mm/page_alloc.cSun Jun 24 19:05:22 2001
@@ -440,7 +440,6 @@
*the inactive clean list. (done by page_launder)
*/
if (gfp_mask & __GFP_WAIT) {
- memory_pressure++;
try_to_free_pages(gfp_mask);
goto try_again;
}
--- linux-2.4.5-ac17/mm/vmscan.c.unlazy Sun Jun 24 19:03:03 2001
+++ linux-2.4.5-ac17/mm/vmscan.cSun Jun 24 19:05:36 2001
@@ -397,6 +397,7 @@
goto out;
found_page:
+ memory_pressure++;
del_page_from_inactive_clean_list(page);
UnlockPage(page);
page->age = PAGE_AGE_START;
@@ -406,7 +407,6 @@
out:
spin_unlock(&pagemap_lru_lock);
spin_unlock(&pagecache_lock);
- memory_pressure++;
return page;
}
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no > parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with BrowseX as the web browser. That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. I use loadlin + initrd on my Toshiba and Ibm notebook. Boot up dos first, then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. ps. Alan, thanks for replying to my "reiserfs replay" question. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:47, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Ummm... GEM was the Geos stuff? (Yeah I remember it, I haven't > > researched it yet though...) > > GEM was a gui from Digital Research I believe. > Geoworks/Geos was a seperate entity. Ah, the DR-DOS answer to dosshell/windows. Cool. (I used Dr. Dos byt never tried its gui.) I know the geos had nothing to do with digital, it started as a windowing GUI for the commodore 64, if you can believe that... > It's been a long time since I looked but they both run fine under > dosemu... I don't suppose you've got reference to literature or some such? I'd love to work this into my huge obnoxious data tree I'm building... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to > the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my > experience with linux so far. Two words: "send patches" Please put your money where your mouth is. I mean, it's ok if you send us feature requests, but bossing us around and telling us what we "should do" while you sit back and don't do any of this isn't exactly a productive attitude. regards, Rik -- Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release: "we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)" http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: The Joy of Forking
On Sunday 24 June 2001 09:46, Luigi Genoni wrote: > > > no SMP > > > x86 only (and similar, e.g. Crusoe) > > Is this a joke? > I hope it is. > > Luigi Nah, I think it's an intentional troll. Either that or somebody who's So naieve they honestly think that having different "text mode" and "binary mode" attributes of files (the cr/lf thing) can in some strange way actually improve a system. (Justifying it with the way printers work when sent an ascii text stream, despite the fact that most printers these days receive postscript or something equally distant from ascii after the printer drivers get done with it. And that text processing itself is, regrettably, moving to Unicode.) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
NFS server difficulties
I thought I saw a post regarding a similar problem to mine, and mentioning a patch, but I can't find the post anymore (and I never found the patch), so: I'm currently running 2.4.5-ac9. Earlier 2.4.x kernels worked OK with NFS, but blew up on my Athlon machine. This kernel does _not_ work OK with NFS. I can mount shared directories on either of my roommate's machines with no problems. They can mount my shares, and perhaps do an ls or two, but any operations beyond that will hang (at their end; all my logs show nothing, and my machine is unaffected) until NFS times out. I've tried both the user and the kernel nfs server. My roommate has tried 2.4.5-ac7, 2.4.5-ac15, and 2.2.19, none of which worked. My other roommate has a machine running a 2.4pre kernel which _does_ work, and also a 2.4.1 kernel which I believe works. We have another machine running 2.4.3 with the XFS patch; that one doesn't work. I have a tulip NIC and am using ext2, if that helps. Another interesting thing is that I'm also running Samba, and both smbfs (on their end) and my Windows machine experience problems almost identical to NFS. So it really might be the NIC. I'm not subscribed, but I read the newsgroup via Google, so there's no pressing need to Cc me on replies. Any help is greatly appreciated. -- --Ray - Sotto la panca la capra crepa sopra la panca la capra campa - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Saturday 23 June 2001 22:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ah, yes, the RT/PC. That brings back some fond memories. My first > exposure to Unix was with AIX on the RT. I still have some of those > weird-sized RT AIX manuals around somewhere... > > Wayne Ooh! Old manuals! Would you be willing to part with them? I am collecting old manuals, and old computing magazines. I even pay for postage, with a bit of warning that they're coming... Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Threads are processes that share more
On 20010621 Stephen Satchell wrote: > >By the way, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that a synonym for "thread" >is "lightweight process". > In linux. Perhaps this the fault. In IRIX, you have sprocs and threads. sprocs have independent pids and you can control what you share (mappings, fd table...). Threads group under same pid. Linux chose the sproc way... -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Mandrake release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac15 #2 SMP Sun Jun 17 02:12:45 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Saturday 23 June 2001 23:07, Mike Castle wrote: > On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 09:41:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Ah, yes, the RT/PC. That brings back some fond memories. My first > > exposure to Unix was with AIX on the RT. I still have some of those > > weird-sized RT AIX manuals around somewhere... > > We always ran AOS on RT's. Actually, the server was the only RT, the rest > were some other model that was basically a PS/2 (286) that booted DOS, then > booted the other same chip that the RT used that was on a daughter card. > > AOS was basically IBM's version of BSD. Academic Operating System. Now if somebody here could just point me to a decent reference on A/UX - Apple's mid-80's version of Unix (for the early macintosh, I believe...) A big thing I'm trying to show in my book is that Unix has been, for almost thirty years, the standard against which everything else was compared. Even when it wasn't what people were directly using it's what the techies were thinking about when they designed their other stuff. (That and the Xerox Parc work...) Let's see, the real earthquakes in the computing world (off the top of my head) are: MIT: project whirlwind (which got computing off of vacuum tubes, spawned DEC, and Minsky's hacker lab. Gurus too numerous to mention.) Bell Labs: (the transistor, and 20 years later Unix. Gurus ken thompson, dennis ritchie, the three transistor guys, ). DARPA: (Arpanet (BBN), funded project MAC at MIT, and Multics which brought the MIT stuff to bell labs.) Xerox Parc (WIMP interface, WYSIWYG word processing/printing/desktop publishing, object oriented programming, The integrated circuit/microchip (Texas Instruments' manufacturing innovation, which led to the Intel 4004, which eventually led to the Altair, which led to the personal computer. Moore's Law would probably be the theme here...) The whole free software thing (Berkeley in the 70's to early 80's, Stallman and the FSF taking over from there. And Andrew Tanenbaum's Minix, which spawned Linux...) Huh, I'd have to mention IBM (forget the PC, how about the winchester drive?), and of course the AT&T breakup (a negative earthquake, but big anyway, sort of leading to the commercialization of the software side of things, although Gates was trying that already. AT&T just removed a lot of the roadblocks by shattering the opposition for a while.) Alright, I need to sit down and make an outline and a timeline. I admit this... (Collecting the data is the easy part. ORGANIZING this fermenting heap of disconnected facts and observations is the hard part...) > mrc Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Saturday 23 June 2001 20:49, John Adams wrote: > On Saturday 23 June 2001 10:07, Rob Landley wrote: > > Here's what I'm looking for: > > > > AIX was first introduced for the IBM RT/PC in 1986, which came out of the > > early RISC research. It was ported to PS/2 and S/370 by SAA, and was > > based on unix SVR2. (The book didn't specify whether the original > > version or the version ported to SAA was based on SVR2, I'm guessing both > > were.) > > You are partially correct. AIX (Advanced Interactive eXecutive) was built > by the Boston office of Interactive Systems under contract to IBM. We had > a maximum of 17 people in the effort which shipped on the RT in January > 1986. Ah. I got the above out of a book in the UT library. (I have the name written down in my notebook... Um, possibly "IBM PS/2, a business perspective" by Jim Hoskins, or more likely "IBM RISC 6000, a business perspective" also by Jim Hoskins. I have no idea who Jim Hoskins is.) Obviously It's better to have somebody who was actually there. Mind if I bug you offline about this? (Or better yet, convince you to join the mailing list I'll be creating this afternoon...) > Prior to that time, Interactive Systems had produced a port of System III > running on the PC/XT called PC/IX which was sold via IBM. I used PC/IX to > produce the software only floating point code in the first version of AIX. Cool. I know there were several nebulous versions of unix available for the PC. (I don't know when coherent was introduced but it was around in 89... And Xenix was always sort of floating around... Considering that IBM also had access to Xenix (if it wanted it), that's at least three versions of Unix IBM could have put on the PC. What do you want to bet no two of them ran the same binaries? :) > johna Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On Sunday 24 June 2001 17:41, J . A . Magallon wrote: > On 20010622 Rob Landley wrote: > >I still consider the difference between threads and processes with shared > >resources (memory, fds, etc) to be largely semantic. > > They should not be the same. Processes are processes, and threads were > designed for situations where processes are too heavy. Other thing is that > in new kernels (for example, Linux) processes are being optimized (ie, vm > fast 'cloning' via copy-on-write) or expanded with new features (Linux' > clone+ CLONE_VM). But they are different beasts. This is a bit like like saying that a truck and a train are totally different beasts. If I'm trying to haul cargo from point A to point B, which is served by both, all I care about is how long it takes and how much it costs. I don't care what it was INTENDED to do. A rock makes a decent hammer. So does a crescent wrench. The question is how good a tool is it for the uses we're trying to put it to? > This remembers on other question I read in this thread (I tried to answer > then but I had broke balsa...). Somebody posted some benchmarks of linux > fork()+exec() vs Solaris fork()+exec(). What programs does this make a difference in? These are tools meant to be used. What real-world usage causes them to differ? If a reasonably competent programmer ported a program from one platform to another, is this the behavior they would expect to see (without a major rewrite of the code)? > That is comparing apples and oranges. Show me a real-world program that makes the distinction you're making. Something in actual use. > The clean battle should be linux fork-exec vs vfork-exec in > Solaris, because for in linux is really a vfork in solaris. But the point of threading is it's a fork WITHOUT an exec. So now you're saying the comparison we're making of "using these tools to do goal X" is invalid because you don't like goal X, and you want to do something else with them. I'm not going to comment on the difference between fork and vfork becaue to be honest I've forgotten what the difference is. Something to do with resource sharing but darned if I can remember it. I'm not sure I've ever used vfork, last thing I remember were people arguing over the man page for it... (Sorry if I seem a bit snappish, I've had this kind of discussion too many times with ivory tower types at UT who object to the topic of conversation because it's not what they've focused on until now. Which logical fallacy was this, "begging the question"? Straw man? I forget. I'm tired...) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Microsoft and Xenix.
On Saturday 23 June 2001 20:13, Michael Alan Dorman wrote: > Rob Landley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > That would be the X version of emacs. And there's the explanation > > for the split between GNU and X emacs: it got forked and the > > closed-source version had a vew years of divergent development > > before opening back up, by which point it was very different to > > reconcile the two code bases. > > No, sorry, wrong, for at least a couple of reasons reasons: I've had this pointed out to me by about five people now. Apparently there's more to emacs than I thought... (Considering its kitchen sink icon, this should come as a suprise to no one...) > I refer you to http://www.jwz.org/doc/emacs-timeline.html for > documentation---JWZ was Mr. Lucid Emacs for quite a time. Thanks for the link. I've also been pointed to xemacs.org. Have to check out both next time I plug this laptop in to the net. (And I apparently need to set up a mailing list on this, since the number of people asking me to do so has now hit double digits...) I'll post a thing here when I do that so we can move at least most of this discussion off linux-kernel. > In 1987, there are any number of things that it could have been---I'd > guess either Unipress Emacs or perhaps Gosling Emacs. I sort of know about gosling's version. (It's mentioned in Stallman's history of emacs on gnu.org...) Interesting how the same people keep popping up as you move from topic to topic. (Licklidder wasn't just a bigwig behind arpanet, he also kicked off project mac at MIT. Doug McIllroy who was one of the half-dozen figures behind the unix launch at bell labs came to BTL after working on project whirlwind at Lincoln Labs (I.E. MIT.) And of course Ken Olsen, hotshot at whirlwind behind core memory, creator of the memory test computer that (when donated to marvin minsky's computing lab) virtually created the whole "Hacker" phenomenon, whose wrote a paper as a graduate student suggesting the use of transistors in computers which convinced IBM to build the first fully transistorized computer (I -THINK-, timeline still a bit fuzzy there to claim "first", may just have been first commercially shipping one), and then of course went off to found Digital after tx-0... Hmmm... I should probably corner Alan Cox at some event and ask him about his Amiga days. (And I DID track down Commodore guru Jim Butterfield last year, he was living in Canada at the time. Just got back into computing after years with cataracts obstructing his vision, apparently...) Rob - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sunday 24 June 2001 22:51, John Nilsson wrote: > So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). /me has no intention of cooling down the optimization phase Good thing there are lots of other developers, huh? > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. This is an optimization issue. > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They both need to open files less often on startup, in particular they should avoid opening the same file zillions of times. Though we have kernel optimizations for that it's still sloppy and a bad idea. > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? Optimization again. Wait for it, fundamental changes are taking place in the Linux filesystem world. > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. > > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? > > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new > distribution. It's been worked on. Google: two kernel monte Hmm, for someone who thinks we should cool down on optimization, you sure have a lot of optimizations on your wish list. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. Already there. In fact Red Hat uses it for the scsi devices. That is what initrd is for. > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig such as ? > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig make bzlilo does the lilo install - what else would you expect there > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) modprobe toshiba and look at http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? No. > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:51:56 +0200 > From: John Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Some experience of linux on a Laptop > > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux > community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so > far. > > I have a Toshiba Portege 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM > > After have tried > Slackware > Gentoo > Linux From Scratch > Debian > Mandrake > and soon ROCK linux > well, for the most part you have been trying distros that are not designed for the desktop as much as for servers. > I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general > desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am > really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to > damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue > rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the > drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). > > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? > > > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. compile your kernel with all the stuff you need built in, that way you won't need modules at all (except for pcmcia stuff) > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig that's what the CPU selection is, currently that's the only optimization available > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig lilo/grub/loadlinux/bootdisks/etc are all different ways to load the kernel, the job is completely seperate from compiling the kernel and as such integrating it would just make it harder to develop better ways to load the kernel. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? only in the idea that the people writing graphics drivers for those other systems would have to shift to writing kernel code. it would still be the same people writing the code so no big advantage here > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. rebooting isn't that big a problem for desktop/laptop use. with lilo it's easy enough to have multiple kernels configured and boot from whichever one you want. David Lang > > I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > > /John Nilsson > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[PATCH] add create_proc_entry check to videodev.c (245ac16)
Hi. The patch below adds a check for create_proc_entry return code in drivers/media/video/videodev.c. It applies against 245-ac16 and 246p6. --- linux-245-ac16-clean/drivers/media/video/videodev.c Sun May 27 22:15:23 2001 +++ linux-245-ac16/drivers/media/video/videodev.c Sun Jun 24 23:33:36 2001 @@ -373,6 +373,8 @@ return; p = create_proc_entry(name, S_IFREG|S_IRUGO|S_IWUSR, video_dev_proc_entry); + if (!p) + return; p->data = vfd; p->read_proc = videodev_proc_read; -- Regards, Rasmus([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. -- Elbert Hubbard - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Thrashing WITHOUT swap.
> recompiled it yet). I have a 140 mb swap partition set up but at the time > this happened it was OFF. I was (still am) running X + twm + two xterms > > top gives me: > mem: 62144k av, 61180k used, 956k free, 0k shrd, 76 buff, 2636 cached > swap: 0k av, 0k used, 0k free [as expected] Not as expected - 0k used 0k free - you have no swap Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Alan Cox quote? (was: Re: accounting for threads)
On 20010622 Rob Landley wrote: > >I still consider the difference between threads and processes with shared >resources (memory, fds, etc) to be largely semantic. > They should not be the same. Processes are processes, and threads were designed for situations where processes are too heavy. Other thing is that in new kernels (for example, Linux) processes are being optimized (ie, vm fast 'cloning' via copy-on-write) or expanded with new features (Linux' clone+ CLONE_VM). But they are different beasts. This remembers on other question I read in this thread (I tried to answer then but I had broke balsa...). Somebody posted some benchmarks of linux fork()+exec() vs Solaris fork()+exec(). That is comparing apples and oranges. The clean battle should be linux fork-exec vs vfork-exec in Solaris, because for in linux is really a vfork in solaris. -- J.A. Magallon # Let the source be with you... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux release 8.1 (Cooker) for i586 Linux werewolf 2.4.5-ac17 #2 SMP Fri Jun 22 01:36:07 CEST 2001 i686 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
[PATCH] kmalloc check for drivers/media/video/i2c-parport.c (245ac16)
Hi.
The following patch tries to avoid a potential null pointer
dereference. It applies against 245-ac16 and 246p6. The
dereference was originally reported by the Stanford team.
--- linux-245-ac16-clean/drivers/media/video/i2c-parport.c Thu Jul 13 01:24:33
2000
+++ linux-245-ac16/drivers/media/video/i2c-parport.cSun Jun 24 23:22:19 2001
@@ -74,6 +74,10 @@
{
struct parport_i2c_bus *b = kmalloc(sizeof(struct parport_i2c_bus),
GFP_KERNEL);
+ if (!b) {
+ printk(KERN_ERR __FUNCTION__ ": Memory allocation failed. Not attaching.\n");
+ return;
+ }
b->i2c = parport_i2c_bus_template;
b->i2c.data = parport_get_port (port);
strncpy(b->i2c.name, port->name, 32);
--
Regards,
Rasmus([EMAIL PROTECTED])
"A statesman... is a dead politician. Lord knows, we need more statesmen."
-- Bloom County
-
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Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> >Features I would like in the kernel: > >1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > >trigged before rootmount. > > How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? > No harddrive accessible means no modules. initrd ? It's quite popular feature at present. Andrzej - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
>I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general >desktop market. I have to disagree on this. It runs fine on most PC's, as they use standard devices. Just say NO to anything proprietary. This includes Toshiba. Makers of such odd machines should supply their own native drivers if they want to be supported. >Features I would like in the kernel: >1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be >trigged before rootmount. How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? No harddrive accessible means no modules. >2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig >3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Why? >4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp >arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > >5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Talk to Toshiba. See if they are willing to part with "secret" information so that you can create specific drivers for Linux. After that, I bet your next comp. won't be from them. :-) >6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the >graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Again, Framebuffer cannot be a module as it needs to be in place before the kernel even gets to init (the program). Since the kernel cannot load modules before the drives are mounted, no module here. >7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Just how much detail of file usage do you want? Just open and close? Do you want reads and writes too? >8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or >cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new >distribution. > In order to change the kernel, all running processes must be terminated. How can you install a new kernel without any process to make the changeover? >I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > >John Nilsson -- Replies by Ted - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Well, let's see: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux > community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so > far. > > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM > > After have tried > Slackware > Gentoo > Linux From Scratch > Debian > Mandrake > and soon ROCK linux > > I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general > desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am > really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to > damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue > rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the > drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). > > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? > > > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. Kernel module loader?, done. > > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I dunno what do you mean exactly with that. > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Not the only way to start linux. Make install does with lilo. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig make install?, done. > > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Don't have one. > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Have you heard of XFree86 project?. > > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Logging?, it should be enough of that if you take a look at /var/log. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Don't you have enough features?. When you install a new aplication you don't have to reboot three times the machine ;-) Imposible to do that for now. (Take a look at HURD). > > I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > > /John Nilsson > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > --- Fabian Arias Mu~oz| Debian GNU/Linux Sid Facultad de Cs. Economicas y |Kernel 2.4.5ac17 - ReiserFS Administrativas. | "aka" dewback en Universidad de Concepcion - Chile | #linuxhelp IRC.CHILE - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH] add kmalloc check in drviers/pcmcia/rsrc_mgr.c (245-ac16)
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Rasmus Andersen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 10:52:31PM +0200, Eric Lammerts wrote: > [...] > > There are zillions of functions called 'init_module' in the kernel. > > I think my suggestion was better (and it had a \n at the end!) > > Agreed. Actually, 'ouch' on point two :) BTW, was it intentional > that you dropped the maintainer from the recipient-list back then? No, sorry. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
