Re: OT We won't back down...
An unnamed Administration source, dep, wrote: % begin Collins Richey's quote: % % | The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is % | getting hammered with hits. % | % | Some of us support the troops. % % you'll find this, then, um, amusing. it is written by the chairman of % the kde league: % % http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 Gawd. Sounds like yer basic way too far right wing lunatic. Wonder if he wears aluminum foil in his cap? Kurt -- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:26:51 -0500 Kurt Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An unnamed Administration source, dep, wrote: % begin Collins Richey's quote: % % | The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is % | getting hammered with hits. % | % | Some of us support the troops. % % you'll find this, then, um, amusing. it is written by the chairman of % the kde league: % % http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 Gawd. Sounds like yer basic way too far right wing lunatic. Wonder if he wears aluminum foil in his cap? More likely to be your basic way too far left wing lunatic, but then is there that much difference at the extremes? He's definitely in communication with forces beyond the planetary orb. I get such a chuckle out of this tripe, but alas it's all too similar to some of the further out there opinions we've heard on this list, so some of us eat that stuff right up. All in all, it's like a Mother Jones issue on steroids. Anyway, I'm replying to the general list and suggest you do likewise. -- Collins ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
At 11:54 AM 28/03/2003 +0930, you wrote: Hi, On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 11:27, Collins Richey wrote: Some of us support the troops. Knowing this is waay off-topic :) I think the troops deserve our 110% support. It is the leaders of the relevant Governments that may not deserve our support. James Well we have got our SAS troops over there with the coalition and also our 2 rowboat navy, plus some AC that we bought off you, grin. We are getting the peace at anyprice s**t thrown at us too, but the majority are behing the PM and the troops. Keith Antoine OZ Forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Keith Antoine wrote: At 11:54 AM 28/03/2003 +0930, you wrote: Hi, On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 11:27, Collins Richey wrote: Some of us support the troops. Knowing this is waay off-topic :) I think the troops deserve our 110% support. It is the leaders of the relevant Governments that may not deserve our support. James Well we have got our SAS troops over there with the coalition and also our 2 rowboat navy, plus some AC that we bought off you, grin. We are getting the peace at anyprice s**t thrown at us too, but the majority are behing the PM and the troops. Keith Antoine OZ Forever. Well, here in Canada the pot is boiling. The Canadian government has distinguished itself by abandoning her traditional allies of Britain and Australia and thumbing it's nose at the US. One of our cabinet ministers standing on the Parliament steps in Ottawa criticized Bush to reporters calling him, among other things, a failed statesman. That followed comments shouted in Parliament by a Liberal (ruling party) MP of screw the US. Another Liberal called the US a bunch of bastards. None of these members were censored publicly for these comments. Remember that Canada is the US' largest trading partner. Just imagine what the trade numbers look like from our side of the border! The US Ambassador to Canada, John Celluci was highly critical of Canada's government a couple of days ago. He also suggested that Canada would pay. As Celluci pointed out, it's ironic since Canada has a handful of soldiers with the US forces in Iraq along with a destroyer and two frigates inspecting ship traffic in the Persian Gulf. We also sent 1000 troops to Afghanistan to backfill US troops freeing them up for Iraq. All this and the idiots in Ottawa are stating we don't support the war as long as the UN doesn't support it. Once again, our government is trying to have it both ways. We stop far short of France and Germany but won't support our allies and partners. We've embarrassed and isolated ourselves. Prime Minister Chretien has cancelled a trip to the US and Bush's visit here on May 5 is now uncertain. I am absolutely certain that there is some kind of screening process for politicians to ensure they only have negative IQ's. -- Gerry The lyfe so short, the craft so long to learne Chaucer ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:50:41 -0800 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Not in the least. I don't ever believe that massive groups of Arabs would invite the great Satan into their midst and welcome him with open arms. Nor do I believe that anyone in the administration would seriously believe this to be the case. The whole scenario is quite complex, and it's an over simplification to say it's the oil or it's the weapons of mass destruction or it's freedom for the Iraquis or it's Al Queda (sp?), etc. It's all of these things and more. Some aspects of the campaign are no doubt tied up with classified information that we are not privy to, and that's as it should be, although that irks the CIA baiters no end. -- Collins ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Saturday 29 March 2003 10:21 am, Collins Richey wrote: On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:50:41 -0800 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Not in the least. I don't ever believe that massive groups of Arabs would invite the great Satan into their midst and welcome him with open arms. Nor do I believe that anyone in the administration would seriously believe this to be the case. The whole scenario is quite complex, and it's an over simplification to say it's the oil or it's the weapons of mass destruction or it's freedom for the Iraquis or it's Al Queda (sp?), etc. It's all of these things and more. Some aspects of the campaign are no doubt tied up with classified information that we are not privy to, and that's as it should be, although that irks the CIA baiters no end. I don't feel mislead either. As one Iraqi soldier put it: we fear Saddam far more than we fear you (U.S.) So they won't start being relieved until they are sure that Saddam won't be around to harm them. -- ++ + Bruce S. Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bellaire, MI 03/29/03 10:30 + ++ I said no to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Well, I don't blame politicians. I always blame the voters. And, I wonder what kind of person really goes into politics. Even the best politician can't really be too honest or too bright. And, then, they have to pass through a very narrow screening process courtesy of the extreme wings of their parties. So, I really am surprised that the politicians are a lot worse than they are, given how they are chosen. A good example of a large group of uninformed but noisy and well meaning people is Greenpeace. I read the Greenpeace bulletin board (my nom de guerre there is Tecumseh, pardon my French. They were shocked when I told them I admired William Tecumseh Sherman). They really are the most uniformed but most highly opinionated group of people I have yet corresponded with. For example, they fervently think that wind power is going to be a major supplier of energy. They think that good intentions backed up by strong feelings somehow make for a persuasive argument or is the foundation for good energy and foreign policy. Unfortunately, so do many of our politicians. I came onto the thread late. Let me just add my 2 cents on the failed Iraqi inspection policy by the UN: If you wonder why we had to invade Iraq instead of relying on Hans Blix to find those weapons, consider these facts: 1. Antarctica is getting colder. 2. Greenland is getting colder. 3. The USA weather stations show no temperature increase. 4. Global satellite temperature data shows no temperature increase. This agrees with data from weather balloons. 5. Hans Blix was recently quoted as saying that global warming is a worse threat than weapons of mass destruction. You can draw your own conclusions. That is something that many people simply cannot do. Joel I am absolutely certain that there is some kind of screening process for politicians to ensure they only have negative IQ's. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
begin Ken Moffat's quote: | Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and | the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be | good, but something smells. actually, not really. there are, besides substantial cultural differences and a mistrust of just about everybody, some defining events over the last couple of decades. first, we let the shia down when they tried to rise up, in something that more than glangingly resembles our behavior at the bay of pigs. second, you can't tell the players even with a scorecard. third, the iraqis think we're crazy -- we're trying to figt this war without killing anybody, and taking casualties as a result. this is a kind of warfighting that is not only unfamiliar to them, it's pretty much unfamiliar to everybody. thus, on cbs yesterday we had this: US Marines mistakenly destroyed an SUV filled with a family of Iraqi farmers, killing several of them. CBS was on the scene with the Marines, who came to help them with their dead. Amazingly, the surviving family held no anger toward the Marines, and thanked them for their help. One of the men of the family told the reporter that they understand why the Marines made this mistake, because Saddam is forcing civilians to take this route in hopes that Allied forces will make exactly this kind of mistake. In other words, these poor people, who had just seen their kinsmen burned to death by American bombs, blamed Saddam for the incident. we're seeing surprises on both sides of it. so when we don't quite understand how it's all playing out, to some extent it's because we're watching a cricket match and thinking in terms of baseball. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 07:13, Gerry Doris wrote: I am absolutely certain that there is some kind of screening process for politicians to ensure they only have negative IQ's. -- Gerry Negative IQ's Oh come on Gerry, get with it! How dare you imply that they actually possess any degree of inteligence. Do you realize that there are hospitals throughout the world waiting for any one of those twits in Ottowa to pass-away so that they can have their brains for transplant consideration. Hell we all know that those brains have never been used and should be in great shape. The only obstacle would be to find a way to remove the inteligence_blocking_virus that seems to be inflicting them. -- Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) Westbank, B. C. Powered by Slackware 8.1, sent with Evolution ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
dep wrote: so when we don't quite understand how it's all playing out, to some extent it's because we're watching a cricket match and thinking in terms of baseball. Excellent analogy. I think you are correct, but the jury is still out. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:24:49 -0500 Joel Hammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To quote another great writer and politician, W. Churchill: They had to choose between dishonor and war. They chose dishonor, and they shall have war. Wow! I've always been a fan of Churchill, but I never heard that one. This one goes in my scrapbook! -- Collins ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
n Saturday 29 March 2003 07:21, Collins Richey wrote: On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:50:41 -0800 Ken Moffat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Not in the least. I don't ever believe that massive groups of Arabs would invite the great Satan into their midst and welcome him with open arms. Nor do I believe that anyone in the administration would seriously believe this to be the case. The whole scenario is quite complex, and it's an over simplification to say it's the oil or it's the weapons of mass destruction or it's freedom for the Iraqis or it's Al Queda (sp?), etc. It's all of these things and more. Some aspects of the campaign are no doubt tied up with classified information that we are not privy to, and that's as it should be, although that irks the CIA baiters no end. My 3 cents worth. First this should go to the general list. Secondly, after 22 years in the military I'm a little disqusted by most of this even some of the troops behavior. I still can see the pictures of some of the maintenance personnel captured by the Iraq's whining that they hadn't come to Iraq to shoot anyone but to fix things. Then there were the parents on TV complaining that their boy hadn't joined the Army to go in harms way but for a college education. The generals? You'd have to go all the back to the our Civil War and the campaigns of George McClellan to equal their non ability. They have broken just about every rule in the book. They over estimated Iraqi civilian support for War? Instead of an adoring populas waving palm fronds they have been met with Where's the food and what are you doing in my country? Ignoring the lessons of Stalingrad, Moscow and Berlin they assumed that Iraqis wouldn't put up much resistance against a foreign power on their soil. After taking less than 20 casualties they slowed the advance on Bagdag. A major military blunder which Stonewall Jackson and General Sherman wouldn't have made. In Jackson's words the battle belongs to whoever gets there the firstest with the mostest. Once engaged with an inferior force you neve, NEVER give him time to back away in good order to reform and dig in. The cost in lives becomes greater than if you had pushed ahead. Grant learned that at Petersburg.Let's not forget the great plan to over awe the Iraqis by reducing Bagdag to rubble. The battles Stalingrad and Berlin demonstrated that cities that have been rubblized are great places to defend. The rubble interferes with the deployment of tanks and massed formations of troops. Despite this we keep hearing of the continuous bombing and the effect it has on the Iraqis. Maybe our party circuit generals should take a little time off from the night life to do a little research on just what was the effect that Hitler's bombing of London had on the British or the destruction of Berlin had on the Germans or Stalingrad on the Russians. Then there's the supply lines. Attacking the enemy's lines of communication was has always been a time honored tactic even before the time of Ceaser. A small force in the rear can do more to slow or even stop an advance than divisions in the front. Note the campaigns of Stonewall Jackson and Jeb Stuart. Yet, our Washington party circuit generals were caught completely by surprise by Iraqi irregular forces attacks on the supply lines that the generals has slowed down themselves. To combat this they have had to divert huge numbers of troops to guard the supply lines and ask for 140,000 more troops. Shades of General McClellan! Then there's the top of the command and his toadies. Little Georgie used his daddy's influence to duck the draft. At the time he got in the Texas Air National Guard there were no slots available. He scored lower of the officer exams than many others yet he was commissioned while others with higher scores were not commissioned and were sent to Nam. Thus our commander-in-chief, like the one before him, is a cowardly draft dodger sending better men and women to die in Iraq while all the Bushes remain safely in the US. And the reason for the war? Who knows? The day after 9/11 Iraq was accused as a responsible party. Little Georgie started preaching war with Iraq as the War on Terrorism. Unfortunately, for Jr. and the toadies Iraq seemed to be about the only Arab country without any links to the terrorists, unlike some of our friends like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt. So the war became the War Against Weapons of Mass Destruction. Bush immediately took to the airways claiming that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear fuel from Nigeria. Bush used that as justification. Problem - middle CIA analysis told the New York Times that the documents were forgeries, that the CIA knew it and that they had told little George that before he went on TV with this proof. He
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:59:56 -0500 Joel Hammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Antarctica is getting colder. 2. Greenland is getting colder. 3. The USA weather stations show no temperature increase. 4. Global satellite temperature data shows no temperature increase. This agrees with data from weather balloons. All four of these facts are incorrect. In fact, there is basically a consensus amongst climate researchers that indeed global warming is taking place, and has been measured. The ice cover in both Antartica and Greenland is shrinking, worldwide in all continents glaciers are receeding at an accelerated rate, satellite data do in fact show a temperature increase, and US weather stations show the same. -- --- | Alan K. Jackson| To see a World in a Grain of Sand | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, | | www.ajackson.org | Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand | | Houston, Texas | And Eternity in an hour. - Blake | --- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
rant Could the facts that reconstruction to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, to be paid for with Iraqi oil money, with bids only being taken from USA companies and those at the front of the line being those well connected to the current administration, all of which will be under the direction (over there) of a US general for at least two years be contributing to some uncertainty over the holiness of this crusade? What scares me as much as anything about this is the intolerance of dissenting views. Canada has backed the US in so many ways at so many times (remember the Iran hostages?) yet this one time Canada has a different stand (OK, but with UN sanction) and suddenly we're villians!? Canadians are being refused service by US businesses!? Sept 11 was an attack on the West, not just on the USA. More Canadians were killed Sept 11 than were killed by American bombs in Afghanistan. With friends like this... :-( /rant Well. I feel a little better. Ian Stephen Canada On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 06:50, Ken Moffat wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Keep the Internet public, avoid sending attachments in proprietary formats. Try plain text, html, rtf or pdf. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
This so desperately should be on [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyway, welcome to Bush Ashcroft's America, where if you're not supporting the 'regime' you muswt be a terrorist. i hardly think it a coincidence that the most intollerant are those who are most closely alligned with the Bush regime. On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ian Stephen wrote: rant Could the facts that reconstruction to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, to be paid for with Iraqi oil money, with bids only being taken from USA companies and those at the front of the line being those well connected to the current administration, all of which will be under the direction (over there) of a US general for at least two years be contributing to some uncertainty over the holiness of this crusade? What scares me as much as anything about this is the intolerance of dissenting views. Canada has backed the US in so many ways at so many times (remember the Iran hostages?) yet this one time Canada has a different stand (OK, but with UN sanction) and suddenly we're villians!? Canadians are being refused service by US businesses!? Sept 11 was an attack on the West, not just on the USA. More Canadians were killed Sept 11 than were killed by American bombs in Afghanistan. With friends like this... :-( /rant Well. I feel a little better. Ian Stephen Canada On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 06:50, Ken Moffat wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Saturday 29 March 2003 11:45 am, Ken Moffat wrote: snip The contracts awarded Cheney's old business friends snip apparently not true. See http://www.msnbc.com/news/892259.asp?0cv=BB10cp1=1 Harry G ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Harry G wrote: On Saturday 29 March 2003 11:45 am, Ken Moffat wrote: snip The contracts awarded Cheney's old business friends snip apparently not true. See http://www.msnbc.com/news/892259.asp?0cv=BB10cp1=1 I'm a bit surprised. Guess the heat was turned up a bit. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Lee wrote: My 3 cents worth. First this should go to the general list. Secondly, after 22 years in the military I'm a little disqusted by most of this That's 4 cents worth. I think some of that is mitigated my circumstances, and I do think Sadam is a threat in the long run, but mostly I agree with your points. I'm surprised to hear the lack of support among vets, particularly those with lots of time in service. Doesn't say much for the state of the union. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
We seem to have different sources of information. What would it take to change your mind on these four items? You might visit these links. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2840137.stm Greenland cools as world warms By Jonathan Amos BBC News Online science staff Greenland is significantly cooler now than it was 40 years ago. http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020820southseaice.html Krishna Ramanujan Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. (Phone: 301/286-3026) Satellites show overall increases in antarctic sea ice cover While recent studies have shown that on the whole Arctic sea ice has decreased since the late 1970s, satellite records of sea ice around Antarctica reveal an overall increase in the southern hemisphere ice over the same period. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/020113190044.qfy07gow.html Despite global warming, Antarctica is cooler -- for now PARIS (AFP) Jan 13, 2002 http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/msusci.html Surface thermometer measurements indicate that the temperature of the Earth is warming, while the satellite data show long-term cooling trends. There is more available online, from reputable sources. For a double-barrel load of anti-global warming information, this link can't be beat, although the maintainer of this site is more of a gadfly than a big name scientist. http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/index.htm Joel On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 12:15:36PM -0600, Alan Jackson wrote: On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:59:56 -0500 Joel Hammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Antarctica is getting colder. 2. Greenland is getting colder. 3. The USA weather stations show no temperature increase. 4. Global satellite temperature data shows no temperature increase. This agrees with data from weather balloons. All four of these facts are incorrect. In fact, there is basically a consensus amongst climate researchers that indeed global warming is taking place, and has been measured. The ice cover in both Antartica and Greenland is shrinking, worldwide in all continents glaciers are receeding at an accelerated rate, satellite data do in fact show a temperature increase, and US weather stations show the same. -- --- | Alan K. Jackson| To see a World in a Grain of Sand | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, | | www.ajackson.org | Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand | | Houston, Texas | And Eternity in an hour. - Blake | --- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Thanks for the facts. However, this will have no impact on the debate, here or in the rest of the world, believe me. It's not facts, but emotions and perceptions, that drive all these arguments. Joel On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:05:29PM -0500, Harry G wrote: On Saturday 29 March 2003 11:45 am, Ken Moffat wrote: snip The contracts awarded Cheney's old business friends snip apparently not true. See http://www.msnbc.com/news/892259.asp?0cv=BB10cp1=1 Harry G ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
If you want to experience intolerance in the reverse direction, visit the Greenpeace community bulletin board. There, the people who hate Bush the most use quite insulting language towards people who express progovernment views. I must also say that attaching a man's name to a policy, (Bush Ashcroft's America) and then attacking that man, rather than the policy, was a technique extensively used by the Communist regime in Russia for many years. Thus, the Communists would attack Darwinianism and Mullerianism by attacking Darwin and Muller, rather than the theory of evolution by natural variation and natural selection. It made for a much simpler message. BTW, the person we have to thank for the new homeland (ugh) security regulations doesn't live or vote in this country (USA). Joel On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 01:45:18PM -0500, Net Llama! wrote: This so desperately should be on [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyway, welcome to Bush Ashcroft's America, where if you're not supporting the 'regime' you muswt be a terrorist. i hardly think it a coincidence that the most intollerant are those who are most closely alligned with the Bush regime. On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ian Stephen wrote: rant Could the facts that reconstruction to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, to be paid for with Iraqi oil money, with bids only being taken from USA companies and those at the front of the line being those well connected to the current administration, all of which will be under the direction (over there) of a US general for at least two years be contributing to some uncertainty over the holiness of this crusade? What scares me as much as anything about this is the intolerance of dissenting views. Canada has backed the US in so many ways at so many times (remember the Iran hostages?) yet this one time Canada has a different stand (OK, but with UN sanction) and suddenly we're villians!? Canadians are being refused service by US businesses!? Sept 11 was an attack on the West, not just on the USA. More Canadians were killed Sept 11 than were killed by American bombs in Afghanistan. With friends like this... :-( /rant Well. I feel a little better. Ian Stephen Canada On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 06:50, Ken Moffat wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMohttp://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 12:15, Joel Hammer wrote: The generals? You'd have to go all the back to the our Civil War and the campaigns of George McClellan to equal their non ability. Now you have gone too far. McClellan was heads and shoulders above the crowd. He was the most responsible for building the Union army from scratch. He understood the importance of logistics and understood the huge advantage offered by the Union Navy in allowing the out flanking of the southern armies. He understood that the threat was more powerful than the execution. His men loved him because he took care of them and didn't waste their lives in senseless frontal attacks. He forced Lee into a battle in which Lee lost more soldiers than the Union, which probably never happened again in the war. After he was sacked by Lincoln because he wasn't winning fast enough, Burnside was ordered to take the offensive. Being a toady, which is what Lincoln wanted, he went into an ill-advised offensive, got beaten very badly, and guess who was called back to service to save the Union capitol? McClellan. He handily defeated the Confederates and saved the day, but was criticized for not destroying the rebel army. He was sacked again. The man who sacked McClellan was the same man who made the incompetent Burnsides general in chief, Mr. Lincoln. And, talk about a moving target. As the body counts got dramatically higher Lincoln kept raising the rhetoric, going from saving the Union (who really cares) to saving mankind (say what?). The Gettysburg address is a piece of work. I suspect that the occupation of Iraq will be easier than the occupation of the South after the Civil War. Joel Hate to beat a dying horse, but. You're right McClellen a good training soldier and good at logistics, but he was no field general. In his advance on Yorktown he continually stop the march because he over estimated the strength of forces opposing him and stopped to await reinforcements. At the start of the campaign there was than a regiment between him and Yorktown. His slow advance lead to one of his generals labeling him the Virginia Creeper. By the time he got near Yorktown Lee had rounded up 30,000 men to McClellan's 100,000+ and promptly engaged McClellan in an attack on (anybody?) McClellan's lines of commuication! They fought seven battles which you correctly pointed out McClellan inflicted more causities on Lee's force than Lee inflicted on the Union forces, but after every battle Lee held the ground and Little Mac retreated south until he had to be evacuated.In this part of the country we call that a defeat. Contrast that to Grant's battle of The Wilderness (actually 7 battles)where Grant lost every battle measured in body count but advanced south after every battle until Lee was bottled up in Petersburg After an unsucessful attempt to breakout was forced to surrender.Years later General Patton inelequently this as grabbing the enemy by the nose and kicking him in the ass.Probably the greatest tribute to McClellan's inability was paid by Robert E. Lee. When told that Lincoln had replaced McClellan Lee said he hoped not because if Lincoln kept doing that he would eventually find someone who could beat him. As for Burnside, he was a baffoon, but honest enough to admit it. When Lincoln offered him supreme command he tried to turn it down. Even to the point of telling Lincoln he was not fit for the command. So the error was not with Burnside but with the administration selecting its generals from the wine cheese Washington circuit. Lee P.S. once again apologize to those on the list who just want to do Linux, but I don't know how to move the whole kit and kaboddle to the gereral list. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
My sources are the journals Science and Nature. I follow this rather closely, since I am a Geophysicist and work in the oil industry. Really, only Exxon and members of the administration do not believe global warming is taking place. Even oil companies such as Shell and BP agree that global warming is a reality, and are trying to reduce carbon emissions accordingly. I used to work at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, and have followed this stuff quite closely for 25 years. On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:29:13 -0500 Joel Hammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We seem to have different sources of information. What would it take to change your mind on these four items? A lot. 8-) You might visit these links. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2840137.stm Greenland cools as world warms By Jonathan Amos BBC News Online science staff Greenland is significantly cooler now than it was 40 years ago. In this article they note that the cooling is a temporally and spatially localized anomaly. If you look at more than 50 years, warming dominates, and the ice is thinning. http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020820southseaice.html Krishna Ramanujan Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. (Phone: 301/286-3026) Satellites show overall increases in antarctic sea ice cover While recent studies have shown that on the whole Arctic sea ice has decreased since the late 1970s, satellite records of sea ice around Antarctica reveal an overall increase in the southern hemisphere ice over the same period. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/020113190044.qfy07gow.html Despite global warming, Antarctica is cooler -- for now PARIS (AFP) Jan 13, 2002 From Science, Volume 297, Number 5586, Issue of 30 Aug 2002, pp. 1502-1506. Mass Balance of Polar Ice Sheets Eric Rignot,1 Robert H. Thomas2 Recent advances in the determination of the mass balance of polar ice sheets show that the Greenland Ice Sheet is losing mass by near-coastal thinning, and that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, with thickening in the west and thinning in the north, is probably thinning overall. The mass imbalance of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet is likely to be small, but even its sign cannot yet be determined. Large sectors of ice in southeast Greenland, the Amundsen Sea Embayment of West Antarctica, and the Antarctic Peninsula are changing quite rapidly as a result of processes not yet understood. 1 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, Mail Stop 300-235, Pasadena, CA 91109, USA. 2 EGG Services, Wallops Flight Facility, Building N-159, Wallops Island, VA 23337, USA. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/msusci.html Surface thermometer measurements indicate that the temperature of the Earth is warming, while the satellite data show long-term cooling trends. U... Surface thermometer measurements indicate that the temperature of the earth is wrming... - Interpreting Differential Temperature Trends at the Surface and in the Lower Troposphere B. D. Santer, 1* T. M. L. Wigley, 2 D. J. Gaffen, 3 L. Bengtsson, 4 C. Doutriaux, 1 J. S. Boyle, 1 M. Esch, 4 J. J. Hnilo, 1 P. D. Jones, 5 G. A. Meehl, 2 E. Roeckner, 4 K. E. Taylor, 1 M. F. Wehner 1 Estimated global-scale temperature trends at Earth's surface (as recorded by thermometers) and in the lower troposphere (as monitored by satellites) diverge by up to 0.14°C per decade over the period 1979 to 1998. Accounting for differences in the spatial coverage of satellite and surface measurements reduces this differential, but still leaves a statistically significant residual of roughly 0.1°C per decade. Natural internal climate variability alone, as simulated in three state-of-the-art coupled atmosphere-ocean models, cannot completely explain this residual trend difference. A model forced by a combination of anthropogenic factors and volcanic aerosols yields surface-troposphere temperature trend differences closest to those observed. 1 Program for Climate Model Diagnosis and Intercomparison, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, CA 94550, USA. 2 National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO 80307, USA. 3 NOAA Air Resources Laboratory, Silver Spring, MD 20910, USA. 4 Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, D-20146 Hamburg, Germany. 5 Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK. Since 1979, polar-orbiting satellites have monitored atmospheric temperatures on a global scale. Satellite temperature measurements are mass-weighted averages of the microwave emissions from deep atmospheric layers (5). They are not the same physical quantity as the near-surface temperatures monitored by thermometers (6). We show that the observed difference between surface and tropospheric temperature changes cannot be fully explained by coverage differences between satellite- and surface-based
Re: OT We won't back down...
At 06:50 AM 29/03/2003 -0800, you wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users NO! one would have to be a moron to believe it was going to be a walk over. Recent history showed that. Keith Antoine ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
At 08:56 AM 29/03/2003 -0800, you wrote: dep wrote: so when we don't quite understand how it's all playing out, to some extent it's because we're watching a cricket match and thinking in terms of baseball. Excellent analogy. I think you are correct, but the jury is still out. Our problem on Oz is that we think about it from the opposite perspective, baseball v cricket. I think there is a great deal of symbolism here for males as they both deal with balls. Keith Antoine ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On 03/29/03 11:40, Joel Hammer wrote: If you want to experience intolerance in the reverse direction, visit the Greenpeace community bulletin board. There, the people who hate Bush the most use quite insulting language towards people who express progovernment views. All that proves is that there are intollerant extremists on both sides of the fence. I must also say that attaching a man's name to a policy, (Bush Ashcroft's America) and then attacking that man, rather than the policy, was a technique extensively used by the Communist regime in Russia for many years. Thus, the Communists would attack Darwinianism and Mullerianism by attacking Darwin and Muller, rather than the theory of evolution by natural variation and natural selection. It made for a much simpler message. *sigh* here we go again, attempting to insinuate that communists are evil, and that anyone who isn't supporting President Bush is: 1) a terrorist 2) a socialist 3) a communist 4) whatever other non-mainstream group you can think up. $DEITY forbid that alternative viewpoints are allowed to exist without ridicule. BTW, the person we have to thank for the new homeland (ugh) security regulations doesn't live or vote in this country (USA). I suspect I know who you're attempting to blame, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. which person can we thank? Joel On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 01:45:18PM -0500, Net Llama! wrote: This so desperately should be on [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyway, welcome to Bush Ashcroft's America, where if you're not supporting the 'regime' you muswt be a terrorist. i hardly think it a coincidence that the most intollerant are those who are most closely alligned with the Bush regime. On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ian Stephen wrote: rant Could the facts that reconstruction to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, to be paid for with Iraqi oil money, with bids only being taken from USA companies and those at the front of the line being those well connected to the current administration, all of which will be under the direction (over there) of a US general for at least two years be contributing to some uncertainty over the holiness of this crusade? What scares me as much as anything about this is the intolerance of dissenting views. Canada has backed the US in so many ways at so many times (remember the Iran hostages?) yet this one time Canada has a different stand (OK, but with UN sanction) and suddenly we're villians!? Canadians are being refused service by US businesses!? Sept 11 was an attack on the West, not just on the USA. More Canadians were killed Sept 11 than were killed by American bombs in Afghanistan. With friends like this... :-( /rant Well. I feel a little better. Ian Stephen Canada On Sat, 2003-03-29 at 06:50, Ken Moffat wrote: Do you feel a bit mislead, judging by the amount of resistance, and the lack of open-armed welcome by the Iraqis? Our intentions may be good, but something smells. Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ~ L. Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo:http://netllama.ipfox.com 2:00pm up 20 days, 14:30, 3 users, load average: 0.33, 0.45, 0.54 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
that's the most sensible comment this thread has seen yet. thanks. On 03/29/03 11:51, Collins Richey wrote: Let's move this off to the general list now, please. Some love this interchange, but many would prefer to stick to linux on this list. -- ~ L. Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo:http://netllama.ipfox.com 2:05pm up 20 days, 14:35, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.26, 0.42 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Would someone please send me a note when the list resumes discussing Linux? I readily concede my ignorance of things Linux, compared to the other list members. But I am a retired army officer - field artillery. I know a little bit about the conduct of war. It's bad enough having to put up with the insipid chatter of network talking heads as they give their play-by-play commentary. War is not a spectator sport. -- Leon A. Goldstein Powered by Caldera WS 3.1.1 Linux System LI D850MVL ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:39:47 -0800 - Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote the following Re: Re: OT We won't back down... n Saturday 29 March 2003 07:21, Collins Richey wrote: My 3 cents worth. First this should go to the general list. Secondly, after 22 snip huge numbers of troops to guard the supply lines and ask for 140,000 more troops. Shades of General McClellan! snip And we wont even get a good saddle out of the deal this time! I think this war has four points. 1. Jr. wants to show his daddy he can do the job. 2. Fighting terrorists in Afghanstan has admittidly been a failure. No major captures were made. Results only came after strong rhetoric and troop movements from Washington regarding Iraq caused increased terrorist chatter and activity. 3. The economy could use a boost. 4. In the new world, with only one dominate power, either the UN falls or we(the US) do. After this the UN will be as effective as we allow it to be. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Saturday 29 March 2003 7:21 pm, someone claiming to be Lee wrote: snip P.S. once again apologize to those on the list who just want to do Linux, but I don't know how to move the whole kit and kaboddle to the gereral list. Um, perhaps replying to , or at least cc'[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- RedHat Psyche 8.0, stock kernel, KDE 3.1.CVS, Xfree86 4.2.1 4:30pm up 3 days, 9:39, 3 users, load average: 0.68, 0.69, 0.76 It's what you learn after you know it all that counts ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Thursday 27 March 2003 06:29 pm, dep wrote: begin Collins Richey's quote: | The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is | getting hammered with hits. | | Some of us support the troops. you'll find this, then, um, amusing. it is written by the chairman of the kde league: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 Wow. That's just bizarre. I know some conspiracy theorists, but that's far beyond the pale. Most of the folks I know who are *against* the war (lots at the UW as is typical of academia) would be appalled. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
begin Aaron Grewell's quote: | http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 | | Wow. That's just bizarre. I know some conspiracy theorists, but | that's far beyond the pale. Most of the folks I know who are | *against* the war (lots at the UW as is typical of academia) would | be appalled. the obvious thing to note about these ravings -- beyond the fact that the author's mother is in charge of public health for douglas county, neb., the site of among other things offut afb, and it's likely that he's threatening her career -- is that if things were half as ominous as he says, he'd already be dead. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
OT We won't back down...
I received this on a automotive list I'm on... It is in Shockwave, but if you can give it a look.. http://www.teasquadron.com/Soldiers.html Bill Day 8:10pm up 82 days, 1:45, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 http://counter.li.org #83358 http://linux-sxs.org/ YIM dakota4x4moparAIM BadManD73 '95 Flame Red CC 4X4 3.9 Magnum AT --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/03 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:41:55 -0600 Bill Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I received this on a automotive list I'm on... It is in Shockwave, but if you can give it a look.. http://www.teasquadron.com/Soldiers.html Bill Day Wow! The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is getting hammered with hits. Some of us support the troops. -- Collins ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
Hi, On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 11:27, Collins Richey wrote: Some of us support the troops. Knowing this is waay off-topic :) I think the troops deserve our 110% support. It is the leaders of the relevant Governments that may not deserve our support. James -- James McArthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bender: I get a good vibe from this place. Nice long dinner table, quiet well-behaved spiders, graveyards adjacent ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
begin Collins Richey's quote: | The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is | getting hammered with hits. | | Some of us support the troops. you'll find this, then, um, amusing. it is written by the chairman of the kde league: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com -- outside the box, barely within the envelope, and no animated paperclip anywhere. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT We won't back down...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:29:38 -0500 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: begin Collins Richey's quote: | The sicko pacifists will puke over this one. The author's site is | getting hammered with hits. | | Some of us support the troops. you'll find this, then, um, amusing. it is written by the chairman of the kde league: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=kde-cafem=104870620205766w=2 -- Yeah, pretty standard Bush bashing, conspiracy in every pot and two under every rock, etc. -- Collins ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
