Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Jerome Vernet 


Le 24 févr. 06, à 04:15, Chris M a écrit :


Im sure some of those stories would prove very
interesting. How about publishing memoirs ;)? What
could be said, and this will seem in stark contrast to
my prior rambling, is that the AT was THE machine for
its time. The Lisa was the machine for ANOTHER time.



The Lisa is a sort of UFO in the microcomputer history. In fact, it's 
not a microcomputer, to my mind. It's much closer to a 'minicomputer' 
in it's conception (separate cards, esay replacement of part). This 
conception made his cost too high and kill him.


Jerome



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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Jerome Vernet 


Le 24 févr. 06, à 03:44, Justaname a écrit :

My opinion as an Apple employee at the time (79 to 86 in MIS) supports 
your opinion.  It was just plain hubris that John Couch's team thought 
they knew what people needed (not what they wanted).  I just don't 
have the energy to regale the list with stories from meetings with 
Lisa development staff.  Don't misunderstand.


Oh, please, tell us more ! There where so much story about Lisa !
These were very bright and hardworking people.  We had all be blinded 
to some degree by our successes.  We just thought we could do it all 
and do it alone.  We didn't get it.


Jerome



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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Chris M 
Im sure some of those stories would prove very
interesting. How about publishing memoirs ;)? What
could be said, and this will seem in stark contrast to
my prior rambling, is that the AT was THE machine for
its time. The Lisa was the machine for ANOTHER time.
No doubt some of its features were borrowed from other
pioneers if you will. But perhaps the hubris you spoke
of was what was required to see outside the box. But
as so often is the case, the market wont always
support innovation.
--- lisalist@mail.maclaunch.com
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My opinion as an Apple employee at the time (79 to
86 in MIS) supports 
> 
> your opinion.  It was just plain hubris that John
Couch's team thought 
> 
> they knew what people needed (not what they wanted).
 I just don't have 
> 
> the energy to regale the list with stories from
meetings with Lisa 
> development staff.  Don't misunderstand.  These were
very bright and 
> hardworking people.  We had all be blinded to some
degree by our 
> successes.  We just thought we could do it all and
do it alone.  We 
> didn't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 23, 2006, at 8:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> 
> > It's truly a shame that the Lisa wasn't a success.
If Apple had had 
> > better
> > management, perhaps the company's primary platform
would have had
> > protected memory. It would have given Apple more
credibility and saved
> > users from a lot of pain.
> >
> > The Lisa's failure in the market doesn't diminish
the excellence of so
> > much of its design. It just makes it sad to
contemplate what the 
> > platform
> > could have become, had it been extended.
> >
> >
> >
> >> my apologies. I thought this was a classiccmp.org
mail
> >> list post. Neither can be distinguised from the
other
> >> unless you look at the headers. And I didn't
expect to
> >> see a PEECEE offered on this one! Please
disregard my
> >> earlier message...*yikes*
> >>
> >> --- Chris M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> yeah, especially if you had bough either new.
The
> >>> Lisa
> >>> was a flop, cost twice as much as an AT (at
least),
> >>> and the AT was a huge success (not knocking
Lisa's
> >>> though - I own one of each :).
> >>>
> >>> --- Jerome Vernet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit
:
> 
> > I don't know if you guys are into collecting
>  vintage PCs at all, but I
> > just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't
have
>  the time to mess with
> > or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286
> >>> (w/
>  the co proc I think,
> > I'll have to look), a VGA card of that
vintage,
>  and a 20M Seagate disk
> > (not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the
> >>> usual
>  5 1/2" disk. The
> > case is in very nice shape, the front plastic
is
>  not faded.
> >
> > I can send you pictures if you like. It's all
>  original.. I would like
> > to keep it, but I really need to do some
> >>> invatory
>  reduction.
> >
> 
>  Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals
> >>> systems
>  ;). I have both of
>  them, it's really a pity to compare them !
> 
>  Apart the weight, may be ;)
> 
> 
>  Jerome
> 
> 
> 
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> >>

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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Justaname 
My opinion as an Apple employee at the time (79 to 86 in MIS) supports 
your opinion.  It was just plain hubris that John Couch's team thought 
they knew what people needed (not what they wanted).  I just don't have 
the energy to regale the list with stories from meetings with Lisa 
development staff.  Don't misunderstand.  These were very bright and 
hardworking people.  We had all be blinded to some degree by our 
successes.  We just thought we could do it all and do it alone.  We 
didn't get it.





On Feb 23, 2006, at 8:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It's truly a shame that the Lisa wasn't a success. If Apple had had 
better

management, perhaps the company's primary platform would have had
protected memory. It would have given Apple more credibility and saved
users from a lot of pain.

The Lisa's failure in the market doesn't diminish the excellence of so
much of its design. It just makes it sad to contemplate what the 
platform

could have become, had it been extended.




my apologies. I thought this was a classiccmp.org mail
list post. Neither can be distinguised from the other
unless you look at the headers. And I didn't expect to
see a PEECEE offered on this one! Please disregard my
earlier message...*yikes*

--- Chris M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


yeah, especially if you had bough either new. The
Lisa
was a flop, cost twice as much as an AT (at least),
and the AT was a huge success (not knocking Lisa's
though - I own one of each :).

--- Jerome Vernet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit :


I don't know if you guys are into collecting

vintage PCs at all, but I

just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have

the time to mess with

or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286

(w/

the co proc I think,

I'll have to look), a VGA card of that vintage,

and a 20M Seagate disk

(not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the

usual

5 1/2" disk. The

case is in very nice shape, the front plastic is

not faded.


I can send you pictures if you like. It's all

original.. I would like

to keep it, but I really need to do some

invatory

reduction.




Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals

systems

;). I have both of
them, it's really a pity to compare them !

Apart the weight, may be ;)


Jerome



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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread sauersr 
It's truly a shame that the Lisa wasn't a success. If Apple had had better
management, perhaps the company's primary platform would have had
protected memory. It would have given Apple more credibility and saved
users from a lot of pain.

The Lisa's failure in the market doesn't diminish the excellence of so
much of its design. It just makes it sad to contemplate what the platform
could have become, had it been extended.



> my apologies. I thought this was a classiccmp.org mail
> list post. Neither can be distinguised from the other
> unless you look at the headers. And I didn't expect to
> see a PEECEE offered on this one! Please disregard my
> earlier message...*yikes*
>
> --- Chris M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> yeah, especially if you had bough either new. The
>> Lisa
>> was a flop, cost twice as much as an AT (at least),
>> and the AT was a huge success (not knocking Lisa's
>> though - I own one of each :).
>>
>> --- Jerome Vernet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit :
>> >
>> > > I don't know if you guys are into collecting
>> > vintage PCs at all, but I
>> > > just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have
>> > the time to mess with
>> > > or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286
>> (w/
>> > the co proc I think,
>> > > I'll have to look), a VGA card of that vintage,
>> > and a 20M Seagate disk
>> > > (not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the
>> usual
>> > 5 1/2" disk. The
>> > > case is in very nice shape, the front plastic is
>> > not faded.
>> > >
>> > > I can send you pictures if you like. It's all
>> > original.. I would like
>> > > to keep it, but I really need to do some
>> invatory
>> > reduction.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals
>> systems
>> > ;). I have both of
>> > them, it's really a pity to compare them !
>> >
>> > Apart the weight, may be ;)
>> >
>> >
>> > Jerome
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > LisaList is sponsored by 
>> > and...
>> >
>> > Shop buy.com and save.
>> > 
>> >
>> >   Support Low End Mac
>> > 
>> >
>> > LisaList info:
>> > 
>> >   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
>> > Send list messages to:
>> > 
>> > To unsubscribe, email:
>> > 
>> > For digest mode, email:
>> > 
>> > Subscription questions:
>> > 
>> > Archive:
>> >
>>
> 
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>> > at 1-800-iPOD.COM
>> > Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal
>> > www.1800ipod.com
>> >
>>
>>
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>> protection around
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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Chris M 
my apologies. I thought this was a classiccmp.org mail
list post. Neither can be distinguised from the other
unless you look at the headers. And I didn't expect to
see a PEECEE offered on this one! Please disregard my
earlier message...*yikes*

--- Chris M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> yeah, especially if you had bough either new. The
> Lisa
> was a flop, cost twice as much as an AT (at least),
> and the AT was a huge success (not knocking Lisa's
> though - I own one of each :).
> 
> --- Jerome Vernet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit :
> > 
> > > I don't know if you guys are into collecting
> > vintage PCs at all, but I 
> > > just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have
> > the time to mess with 
> > > or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286
> (w/
> > the co proc I think, 
> > > I'll have to look), a VGA card of that vintage,
> > and a 20M Seagate disk 
> > > (not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the
> usual
> > 5 1/2" disk. The 
> > > case is in very nice shape, the front plastic is
> > not faded.
> > >
> > > I can send you pictures if you like. It's all
> > original.. I would like 
> > > to keep it, but I really need to do some
> invatory
> > reduction.
> > >
> > 
> > Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals
> systems
> > ;). I have both of 
> > them, it's really a pity to compare them !
> > 
> > Apart the weight, may be ;)
> > 
> > 
> > Jerome
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > LisaList is sponsored by 
> > and...
> > 
> > Shop buy.com and save.
> > 
> > 
> >   Support Low End Mac
> > 
> > 
> > LisaList info: 
> > 
> >   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> > Send list messages to: 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, email: 
> > 
> > For digest mode, email:
> > 
> > Subscription questions:
> > 
> > Archive:
> >
>

> > 
> > iPod Accessories for Less
> > at 1-800-iPOD.COM
> > Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal
> > www.1800ipod.com
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Chris M 
yeah, especially if you had bough either new. The Lisa
was a flop, cost twice as much as an AT (at least),
and the AT was a huge success (not knocking Lisa's
though - I own one of each :).

--- Jerome Vernet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit :
> 
> > I don't know if you guys are into collecting
> vintage PCs at all, but I 
> > just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have
> the time to mess with 
> > or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286 (w/
> the co proc I think, 
> > I'll have to look), a VGA card of that vintage,
> and a 20M Seagate disk 
> > (not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the usual
> 5 1/2" disk. The 
> > case is in very nice shape, the front plastic is
> not faded.
> >
> > I can send you pictures if you like. It's all
> original.. I would like 
> > to keep it, but I really need to do some invatory
> reduction.
> >
> 
> Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals systems
> ;). I have both of 
> them, it's really a pity to compare them !
> 
> Apart the weight, may be ;)
> 
> 
> Jerome
> 
> 
> 
> --
> LisaList is sponsored by 
> and...
> 
> Shop buy.com and save.
> 
> 
>   Support Low End Mac
> 
> 
> LisaList info: 
> 
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to: 
> 
> To unsubscribe, email: 
> 
> For digest mode, email:
> 
> Subscription questions:
> 
> Archive:
>

> 
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> at 1-800-iPOD.COM
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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Jerome Vernet 


Le 23 févr. 06, à 18:50, Jason Perkins a écrit :

I don't know if you guys are into collecting vintage PCs at all, but I 
just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have the time to mess with 
or room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286 (w/ the co proc I think, 
I'll have to look), a VGA card of that vintage, and a 20M Seagate disk 
(not a Computer Memories unit :( ), and the usual 5 1/2" disk. The 
case is in very nice shape, the front plastic is not faded.


I can send you pictures if you like. It's all original.. I would like 
to keep it, but I really need to do some invatory reduction.




Lisa and IBM PC AT...Both famous historicals systems ;). I have both of 
them, it's really a pity to compare them !


Apart the weight, may be ;)


Jerome



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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Peterson, Wade D. 
Looking for a IBM PC Jr, if ya got one.  Any tablets, and could use a
good Apple Wallstreet laptop battery too.

Wade


-Original Message-
From: LisaList [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron
Rogers
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:04 PM
To: LisaList
Subject: Re: Free IBM AT

WOO HOO ... HOOK ME UP JASON!!!
 
I'm interested!!! What do you want for the AT?
 
Aaron

- Original Message 
From: Jason Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: LisaList 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:50:17 AM
Subject: Free IBM AT


I don't know if you guys are into collecting vintage PCs at all, but I
just got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have the time to mess with or
room to store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286 (w/ the co proc I think, I'll
have to look), a VGA card of that vintage, and a 20M Seagate disk (not a
Computer Memories unit :( ), and the usual 5 1/2" disk. The case is in
very nice shape, the front plastic is not faded.

I can send you pictures if you like. It's all original.. I would like to
keep it, but I really need to do some invatory reduction.

I also have some pizzabox performas, some IBM PS/2s, TONS of AT
keyboards, inkjet printers, etc. If your jonsin for some junk, I can
hook you up :)

-Jason 

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Re: Free IBM AT

2006-02-23 Thread Aaron Rogers 
WOO HOO ... HOOK ME UP JASON!!!
 
I'm interested!!! What do you want for the AT?
 
Aaron

- Original Message 
From: Jason Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: LisaList 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:50:17 AM
Subject: Free IBM AT


I don't know if you guys are into collecting vintage PCs at all, but I just 
got a free IBM AT that I simply don't have the time to mess with or room to 
store. It's got 512k of ram, a 286 (w/ the co proc I think, I'll have to 
look), a VGA card of that vintage, and a 20M Seagate disk (not a Computer 
Memories unit :( ), and the usual 5 1/2" disk. The case is in very nice 
shape, the front plastic is not faded.

I can send you pictures if you like. It's all original.. I would like to 
keep it, but I really need to do some invatory reduction.

I also have some pizzabox performas, some IBM PS/2s, TONS of AT keyboards, 
inkjet printers, etc. If your jonsin for some junk, I can hook you up :)

-Jason 

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