Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Kent Crispin wrote: ... Well, it really doesn't matter what he wrote. The point is, he's back, and that means no possibility of any useful discussion on this list. So, good-bye and good luck to you all. M.S.
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Of course we cannot and will not ignore ICANN.,. After all, out plan is to copy the ICANN ROOT, and augment it into being our superior Inclusive Root, to be offered as a solid well managed ROOT service to ISP's that want and need such a service. We should also offer it to the ccTLD operators who are being squeezed into ICANN compliance by bad service delivery to ICANN agreement non-signers. In fact lets work on ways to address a proposal to them to join us in lieu of ICANN. But first, lets get our own act together;-)... Cheers...\Stef At 00:05 +0200 11/09/01, Marc Schneiders wrote: [SNIP]... [SNIP]... [SNIP]... [SNIP]... [SNIP]... [SNIP]... [SNIP] I am all for alternatives, especially working ones, and I do try to participate in those. But can we really _ignore_ ICANN completely?
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Well, we run some danger of you going to ICANN meetings and spilling our beans;-)... So, you will find some hostility here to people who insist on participating in both. We a re not going to try to kill ICANN, but we also do not want to put our head in the ICANN guillotine for no good purpose other then to lose our heads. We need to use some stealth in our effort to route around ICANN. We do not need to visibly thumb our noses at them, or parade by with a brass band to get their attention. It is hard to agree to ignore them and at the same time work with them in their faked up committees. So, I fear you are going to get you chance to choose paths. Cheers...\Stef At 00:11 +0200 11/09/01, Marc Schneiders wrote: Is this true? Does it not depend on _how_ you work inside ICANN? I see a lot of people active on the ncdnhc list who 'hate' ICANN as much as possible. Still they vote for the ICANN board seat (maybe without success) if they happen to be on the Names Council. Lets not ostracize each other. I am not putting any money on ICANN. Still, I don't see why I could not participate in some of its processes and at the same time be part of 'alternatives'. I would rather see things in the perspective of the wrong party being in power. Not the power being so entagled in cosa nostra that all I can do is buy a gun and go into the mountains. Anyway, I live in a country that is flat.
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
Right on Patrick;-)... And a strategy of first making an egg is not likely to work out. First we need the chicken, and it will give us some eggs. If we also have a rooster;-)...\Stef At 19:19 -0700 10/09/01, Patrick Greenwell wrote: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ellen Rony wrote: If there were killer content that is only available in the other-than-IANA-root, then people would quietly (or not) begin reconfiguring their computers to view it. It's a chicken and egg problem...
Re: [IFWP] Introduction
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Joanna Lane wrote: Thank you Ellen, Nice to meet you. Joanna on 9/10/01 10:16 PM, Ellen Rony at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Joanna-- Many of us have been on this IFWP list since it was launched in about June of 1998. It went through a period of non-use and then disappeared for a while into the ether, but for most of us here, this is an ongoing dialogue, with new people joining in (and perhaps leaving) from one month to the next. That nothwistanding, here is my intro: I am co-author of The Domain Name Handbook: High Stakes and Strategies in SNIP The obvious needs to be pointed out: if every time someone new joins the list, several hundred people must (re)introduce themselves, this list will consist of nothing but endless introductions. And everybody sensible will unsubscribe. New people should introduce themselves. Silence from the old folks, please. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
Re: [IFWP] Introduction
Fair enough;-)... You can learn about me from the ORSC WEB SITE:
http://www.open-rsc.org
Where I have placed some essays and other writings.
I have been around the ARPANET/Internet since 1975, and I know most
of the early Internauts. I was very active in the IETGF for many
years, and was involved in the background of the development of the
MIME protocol in 1990+.
Actually, I was involved with many of the original ARPANET
development team long before it came to be. I hired Steve Crocker as
an undergrad student assistant in 1960 at UCLA, as Steve has reminded
my about from time to time since.
I am now retired while remaining active in Internet affairs.
I have had my NMA.COM domain name since 1987.
For more information just put my address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
or my name (Einar Stefferud into your favorite GOOGLE
search engine and stand back;-)...
My name and email address are globally unique, so you will only get
hits that are really for me.
Cheers...\Stef
At 23:39 -0400 10/09/01, Joanna Lane wrote:
Thank you Ellen,
Nice to meet you.
Joanna
on 9/10/01 10:16 PM, Ellen Rony at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Joanna--
Many of us have been on this IFWP list since it was launched in about June
of 1998. It went through a period of non-use and then disappeared for a
while into the ether, but for most of us here, this is an ongoing dialogue,
with new people joining in (and perhaps leaving) from one month
to the next.
That nothwistanding, here is my intro:
I am co-author of The Domain Name Handbook: High Stakes and Strategies in
Cyberspace, a 645-page tome published in 1998. I have been monitoring
domain issues daily since January 1996. Currently, I am offering domain
name litigation support and expert witness services for the good guys and
grousing about ICANN along with many others. I live and work in beautiful
Tiburon, California, 8 miles north of the Golden Gate Bridge that connects
my county with San Francisco. My website at http://www.domainhandbook.com
provides thousands of links to domain name news, policies, disputes,
Congressional testimony, ICANN's activities, DNS humor and more, but right
now it's about a month behind.
Regards,
Ellen
Hello Einar,
The funny thing about this medium is that while I have no idea
who you are,
you feel entitled to ask me all kinds of questions without introducing
yourself. If this were the phone, I doubt I'd take your call...;-)
Regards,
Joanna
^
Ellen Rony )/_http://www.domainhandbook.com
Co-author \ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Domain Name Handbook /) ) +1 415.435.5010
---/'
The more people I meet, the more I like my cockatiel.
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Hi Kent -- Now that I see you are here, I shall simply exit stage left;-)... Enjoy;-)...\Stef At 23:03 -0700 10/09/01, Kent Crispin wrote: On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 12:08:16AM -0400, Richard J. Sexton wrote: Beautiful. But who gave you your IP number? The same place ICANN got their. A regional registry. ICANN uses NAT addresses so this is rather moot. Where did you get that idea? -- Kent Crispin Be good, and you will be [EMAIL PROTECTED] lonesome. -- Mark Twain
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Well, how about that. With Kent Crispin here the beans are already spilt, which is why I am leaving. Cheers...\Stef At 00:38 -0700 11/09/01, Einar Stefferud wrote: Well, we run some danger of you going to ICANN meetings and spilling our beans;-)... So, you will find some hostility here to people who insist on participating in both. We a re not going to try to kill ICANN, but we also do not want to put our head in the ICANN guillotine for no good purpose other then to lose our heads. We need to use some stealth in our effort to route around ICANN. We do not need to visibly thumb our noses at them, or parade by with a brass band to get their attention. It is hard to agree to ignore them and at the same time work with them in their faked up committees. So, I fear you are going to get you chance to choose paths. Cheers...\Stef At 00:11 +0200 11/09/01, Marc Schneiders wrote: Is this true? Does it not depend on _how_ you work inside ICANN? I see a lot of people active on the ncdnhc list who 'hate' ICANN as much as possible. Still they vote for the ICANN board seat (maybe without success) if they happen to be on the Names Council. Lets not ostracize each other. I am not putting any money on ICANN. Still, I don't see why I could not participate in some of its processes and at the same time be part of 'alternatives'. I would rather see things in the perspective of the wrong party being in power. Not the power being so entagled in cosa nostra that all I can do is buy a gun and go into the mountains. Anyway, I live in a country that is flat.
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
As for ICANN finding out your plan, Stef, seems wise to presume that your postings here have already been forwarded to ICANN by lurkers on this list. There is no stealth on an open mailing list -- ken Well, we run some danger of you going to ICANN meetings and spilling our beans;-)... So, you will find some hostility here to people who insist on participating in both. We a re not going to try to kill ICANN, but we also do not want to put our head in the ICANN guillotine for no good purpose other then to lose our heads. We need to use some stealth in our effort to route around ICANN. We do not need to visibly thumb our noses at them, or parade by with a brass band to get their attention. It is hard to agree to ignore them and at the same time work with them in their faked up committees. So, I fear you are going to get you chance to choose paths. Cheers...\Stef At 00:11 +0200 11/09/01, Marc Schneiders wrote: Is this true? Does it not depend on _how_ you work inside ICANN? I see a lot of people active on the ncdnhc list who 'hate' ICANN as much as possible. Still they vote for the ICANN board seat (maybe without success) if they happen to be on the Names Council. Lets not ostracize each other. I am not putting any money on ICANN. Still, I don't see why I could not participate in some of its processes and at the same time be part of 'alternatives'. I would rather see things in the perspective of the wrong party being in power. Not the power being so entagled in cosa nostra that all I can do is buy a gun and go into the mountains. Anyway, I live in a country that is flat.
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
The development of TCP/IP and Mosaic were breathrough applications. Mosaic allowed people to navigate the web with greater ease and Nascape, easier yet, opened the doors to rapid expansion of the Internet. The parallel universe of TLDs needs either a breathrough application (a mere click on the browser that allows people to select their choice of root server operator) or breakthrough content that makes people want to reconfigure computers to access that information. Right on Patrick;-)... And a strategy of first making an egg is not likely to work out. First we need the chicken, and it will give us some eggs. If we also have a rooster;-)...\Stef At 19:19 -0700 10/09/01, Patrick Greenwell wrote: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ellen Rony wrote: If there were killer content that is only available in the other-than-IANA-root, then people would quietly (or not) begin reconfiguring their computers to view it. It's a chicken and egg problem...
Re: [IFWP] Introduction
The obvious needs to be pointed out: if every time someone new joins the list, several hundred people must (re)introduce themselves, this list will consist of nothing but endless introductions. And everybody sensible will unsubscribe. New people should introduce themselves. Silence from the old folks, please. I figured that since this list is restarting after an absence of about, oh, 6-8 months, introductions might not be a bad idea the first or second time someone participates. That means, of course, that we will never be introducedf to the many lurkers.
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
The parallel universe of TLDs needs either a breathrough application (a mere click on the browser that allows people to select their choice of root server operator) or breakthrough content that makes people want to reconfigure computers to access that information. (It's difficult, at this time, to think of anything but the massive amount of lives lost in vain today and dns issues seem like such trite matter in comparison) OTOH, Ellen, such an application may not be required. Look at the changes in the landscale in the past few years. Didn't you once say that you didn't like .com and vanity names and would use your .ca.us address forever? I see a log of people that used to be very anti-alternative tld but now aren't. I see a lot of previous MoU signatories that now use, say, the ORSC root. I don't see the opposite. Numbers perhaps are significant, but trends morso. (back to the carnage) -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] Introduction
I was surprised to see this long dead mailbox come to life. I'm listening here - but right now I'm (like probably a lot of folks) kinda focused elsewhere. --karl--
[IFWP] Re: Introduction
At 9/10/01 09:52 PM, Joanna Lane wrote: Hello Einar, The funny thing about this medium is that while I have no idea who you are, you feel entitled to ask me all kinds of questions without introducing yourself. If this were the phone, I doubt I'd take your call...;-) Hi Joanna, You can read more about Stef and some of the rest of us at: http://www.open-rsc.org/about/who/ At 17:45 -0400 09/09/01, Joanna Lane wrote: Just a note to introduce myself to this list. For those that don't me, please visit http://www.internetstakeholders.com, with particular reference to the ICANN Board Candidate Statement I made yesterday at Montevideo. A very good intro, especially from someone who has been involved with ICANN for only a little over a year. However, I would like to point out a couple of fallacies in your position, at least from my experience. First, that your bid for an ICANN board position would have any impact on the current policies of ICANN. Given the impact of the current At-Large Board members, your impact is likely to be zero. This is not only because the current board can outvote the ALBMs, but because ICANN is now run by an executive committee of the board, and most of the decisions are made by the staff anyway. And when you say ... I call upon the mainstream media to investigate and substantiate allegations of deceptive practices and corruption that flow forth in abundance from those monitoring proceedings from within the ICANN organization on a daily basis. If what I hear is true, this story is bigger than Watergate... ... you imply that the media hasn't covered ICANN because they are ignorant about what has been going on. Truth of the matter is, they aren't ignorant, they are simply suppressing the story. I know this first hand, as I have spent hours educating reporters, only to have them transferred, fired, or their stories rejected or changed by their editors. As unbelievable as these allegations are, they are true ... not only for ICANN, but for many other institutions like the WTO. Just like we have been marginalized and ignored by the powers behind ICANN, others have been marginalized and ignored by the powers behind the WTO. As an example, I have just completed an interview with Dr. Bill Ellis, a long time activist (he's 80 years old) who once worked for the UN and the World Bank. You can hear it online at: http://www.aligningwithpurpose.com/images/BillEllis.ra He describes how they have been meeting in parallel with the G7 meetings for 20 years, and how the media's refusal to cover their positions directly lead to the riots in Seattle, Quebec and Genoa. He also echo's many of Stef's points about chaos theory, edge control and systemic change. Hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any questions. Jay. +++ Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765 http://www.YourWebPartner.com ... Web Support http://www.AligningWithPurpose.com ... for a Better World --- A new civilization is emerging in our lives, and blind men everywhere are trying to suppress it. -- Alvin Toffler
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
FYI, there's been a solution to the chicken and egg problem for years. The ethiopians have a dish, they put both chicken and the egg (hard boiled) in same pot together. It's called Doro Wat, recipe available at: http://www.berko.demon.co.uk/recipes/DoroWot.html n.b. professional poulty products on closed skillet. actual mileage may vary. only attempt this maneuver at home (not in a car) Patrick Greenwell wrote: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ellen Rony wrote: If there were killer content that is only available in the other-than-IANA-root, then people would quietly (or not) begin reconfiguring their computers to view it. It's a chicken and egg problem... -- Dan Steinberg SYNTHESIS:Law Technology 35, du Ravin phone: (613) 794-5356 Chelsea, Quebec fax: (819) 827-4398 J9B 1N1 e-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] The emperor is still naked
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dan Steinberg wrote: FYI, there's been a solution to the chicken and egg problem for years. The ethiopians have a dish, they put both chicken and the egg (hard boiled) in same pot together. It's called Doro Wat, recipe available at: http://www.berko.demon.co.uk/recipes/DoroWot.html n.b. professional poulty products on closed skillet. actual mileage may vary. only attempt this maneuver at home (not in a car) Cute, but as with most of the discussion on mailing lists worthless.
[IFWP] Garrin?
Ambler wrote: Has anyone heard from Paul Garrin? His offices are very close to the trade centre as I recall... Christopher -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] Garrin?
His phone is out. - Original Message - From: Richard J. Sexton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: [IFWP] Garrin? Ambler wrote: Has anyone heard from Paul Garrin? His offices are very close to the trade centre as I recall... Christopher -- But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig. -- Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp. et al., 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 8962, (S. D. Tex., 2001). [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IFWP] working within ICANN
Of course, and I assume you will make sure that it is passed along, in case someone else has not;-)... Fortunately, my plans are just thoughts on the fly;-)... But thank you very much for informing everyone here that ICANN has spies all around us, to be sure they know what we think, so they can resist any good ideas we might have;-)... Thank you very much;-)...\Stef PS: I assume you did not really intend to pass along such useful info;-)...\s At 09:36 -0600 11/09/01, Ken Freed wrote: As for ICANN finding out your plan, Stef, seems wise to presume that your postings here have already been forwarded to ICANN by lurkers on this list. There is no stealth on an open mailing list -- ken Well, we run some danger of you going to ICANN meetings and spilling our beans;-)... So, you will find some hostility here to people who insist on participating in both. We a re not going to try to kill ICANN, but we also do not want to put our head in the ICANN guillotine for no good purpose other then to lose our heads. We need to use some stealth in our effort to route around ICANN. We do not need to visibly thumb our noses at them, or parade by with a brass band to get their attention. It is hard to agree to ignore them and at the same time work with them in their faked up committees. So, I fear you are going to get you chance to choose paths. Cheers...\Stef At 00:11 +0200 11/09/01, Marc Schneiders wrote: Is this true? Does it not depend on _how_ you work inside ICANN? I see a lot of people active on the ncdnhc list who 'hate' ICANN as much as possible. Still they vote for the ICANN board seat (maybe without success) if they happen to be on the Names Council. Lets not ostracize each other. I am not putting any money on ICANN. Still, I don't see why I could not participate in some of its processes and at the same time be part of 'alternatives'. I would rather see things in the perspective of the wrong party being in power. Not the power being so entagled in cosa nostra that all I can do is buy a gun and go into the mountains. Anyway, I live in a country that is flat.
