Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Stephen Macchia]

Forgot to say you should put your conditional statements into the  
head, inline styling is a bit to be desired (in my opinion anyway).


Steve

On 25/10/2006, at 5:47 AM, Tee G. Peng wrote:


Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.

http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html

The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from  
tabindex="1", tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I  
try to tab them. I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt',  
'control' and 'command'.


Regards,

tee



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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Stephen Macchia]

What browser are you using as that worked fine for me. You may have  
tabbed navigation turned off or check your OS accessibility features


Steve

On 25/10/2006, at 5:47 AM, Tee G. Peng wrote:


Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.

http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html

The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from  
tabindex="1", tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I  
try to tab them. I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt',  
'control' and 'command'.


Regards,

tee



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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Christian Montoya]

On 10/24/06, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thierry Koblentz wrote:
> Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>> Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no
>> server-side scripting language available)
>
> You're right about using referer, it's not reliable.
> But include files won't make the links submit differently (depending on
> which document host them), and I think that's what Tee is after.

Yes, SSIs wouldn't, but I'd think with proper scripting languages you
could have includes which then, in turn, echo out the current page's url
  as parameter for the validator link.


Very, very easy to do with PHP, for example, and just about any other
decent scripting language.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Chris Williams]

Assuming that the "user" in this case is the developer who is developing the
site (the only one who has a reason for the output), then they can unblock
it...

> From: "Patrick H. Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links
> 
> As long as the user's browser doesn't have referer blocking, such as is
> the case with Norton Internet Security if I remember correctly.



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RE: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Taco Fleur]

That's it thanks. 

I see there is a problem with the buttons on capture 7966358.JPG
http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=294234
Would anyone know how to overcome this problem? Maybe just get rid of the
list item and use absolute positioned DIVs?
The problem is only on the MAC.

In Opera 9.0 on Windows 2000 Professional it doesn't appear to load the
stylesheet, is that a problem I can overcome? Opera seems to make a mess of
it no matter what, even though the pages validate.

The funny thing is, all pages (except the form) validates, so, should I be
implementing hacks now, or have I still made mistakes with some of the
CSS/Mark-up?

IE 4 is a mess, but I won't do anything about that. 

-Original Message-
There are 17 screen captures here (linux, mac, win2000, and xp). Some of
them did not come out. That sometimes happens. Use the trial service to
ret-ake them.

Best,
~dL

--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 24, 2006, at 7:13 PM, ~davidLaakso wrote:


Taco Fleur wrote:
OK, so it appears there are some issues, it would help if you  
actually point

the issues out.
I don't have access to a wide range of browsers. Any suggestions?  
- wasn't
there some kind of tool that allowed you to see the website in  
different

browser versions?

Hi Taco, you may want to join  one of the Browsercam pool from  
fundable.org


http://www.fundable.org/search? 
SearchableText=browsercam&review_state=public&review_state=private&revie 
w_state=finished-approved&x=0&y=0


I signed up my BC's account from there.

Of course the most convenient way is to equip with both PC and Mac :)  
I suppose it's the most sensible thing for a design firm to invest:  
Get a Mac Pro, then get a Parallels or Crossover :)



tee


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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no
server-side scripting language available)


You're right about using referer, it's not reliable.
But include files won't make the links submit differently (depending on
which document host them), and I think that's what Tee is after.


Yes, SSIs wouldn't, but I'd think with proper scripting languages you 
could have includes which then, in turn, echo out the current page's url 
 as parameter for the validator link.


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Oct 25, 2006, at 5:25 AM, Tee G. Peng wrote:

Yes I did.  I have the 'enable tab browsing' selected both in  
Safari and Firefox.


hmmm, embarrassing! I guess the problem is I don't know exactly how  
to 'tab'.  Ok how do you do that in Mac?


For both Firefox and Safari: Go System Preferences (from the Apple  
Menu) > Keyboard and Mouse > Keyboard Shortcuts and enable Full  
Keyboard Access (--> All Controls).


Additional for Safari: Open Safari > preferences > Advanced tab and  
check the second textbox.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh






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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[~davidLaakso]

Taco Fleur wrote:

OK, so it appears there are some issues, it would help if you actually point
the issues out.
I don't have access to a wide range of browsers. Any suggestions? - wasn't
there some kind of tool that allowed you to see the website in different
browser versions?


  
  
There are 17 screen captures here (linux, mac, win2000, and xp). Some of 
them did not come out. That sometimes happens. Use the trial service to 
ret-ake them.


Best,
~dL

--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Thierry Koblentz]

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no
> server-side scripting language available)

You're right about using referer, it's not reliable.
But include files won't make the links submit differently (depending on
which document host them), and I think that's what Tee is after.

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com



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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Tee G. Peng wrote:

Yes, it's for client's site. Not out of fame but perhaps marketing 
purpose. My dedication with extra hours of work for validating markups, 
css and section 508 (note, I don't just rely on validation tool but my 
eyes) on each page pay off, because I got a few gigs from companies and 
web design firms to do web standards compliant sites :). If I only put a 
link on the home page, it only mean the home page is validated, not 
other pages. Clients want their clients/ audiences know that each page 
is validated  and section 508 compliant.  Besides, this is a good way to 
promote web standards I think.


Personally, I'd say that a discreet mention in a site's "about" or 
"credits" section is more appropriate. *users* don't have a use for 
those links, and being sent to a technical site (such as a validator 
results page) won't make them any more clued up about standards.


IMHO, of course.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Tee G. Peng]

Hi Patrick,
On Oct 24, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:



Maybe more of a philosophical question here, but: why would you  
want those links on all pages (assuming this is client work, yes)?  
Who are they useful to, if not other developers and/or yourself?


Yes, it's for client's site. Not out of fame but perhaps marketing  
purpose. My dedication with extra hours of work for validating  
markups, css and section 508 (note, I don't just rely on validation  
tool but my eyes) on each page pay off, because I got a few gigs from  
companies and web design firms to do web standards compliant  
sites :). If I only put a link on the home page, it only mean the  
home page is validated, not other pages. Clients want their clients/  
audiences know that each page is validated  and section 508  
compliant.  Besides, this is a good way to promote web standards I  
think.



It's quite tedious to make the links manually, page by page.


Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no  
server-side scripting language available)


But include file can't generate individual links correct?

for examples
home.html >http://validator.w3.org/check/referer?http://www.site.com/ 
home.html
about.html > http://validator.w3.org/check/referer?http:// 
www.site.com/about.html


I see Chris got me the answer I needed. Thanks, Chris.

tee


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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Chris Williams wrote:

You don't need a snippet of code.  Just put in:

http://validator.w3.org/check/referer

And

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer

These will check the page that called them...


As long as the user's browser doesn't have referer blocking, such as is 
the case with Norton Internet Security if I remember correctly.


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Chris Williams]

You don't need a snippet of code.  Just put in:

http://validator.w3.org/check/referer

And

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer

These will check the page that called them...


> From: "Tee G. Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Hi, I wonder if there is (free) js code out there that can generate
> xhtml/css validation links that people put at the bottom of their sites.



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RE: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Taco Fleur]

Thanks, this is helpful.
I added:
#navigation a {
text-decoration: none;
}

Which should have taken care of the issue listed below.
--

Forgot to mention, in Safari 2.0.4, a horizontal line showing up on top of
each big button (1. click here to view our portfolio, 2..., 3 4) and
the 'mor' buttons. It looks to me it's caused by a:link {text-decoration:
underline;}
   as the color is the same as text link you have.







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RE: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Taco Fleur]

OK, so it appears there are some issues, it would help if you actually point
the issues out.
I don't have access to a wide range of browsers. Any suggestions? - wasn't
there some kind of tool that allowed you to see the website in different
browser versions?


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of ~davidLaakso
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:07 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

Taco Fleur wrote:
> Yes that's the one I mean, I forgot to include a link 
> www.pacificfox.com.au
>
>
> Thanks, we don't have opera installed, we only code for Mozilla and IE.
You may want to view it in IE7.
>  But
> am more than happy to hear about any quick fixes you suggest to make 
> it work in Opera.

~dL

--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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Re: [WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Tee G. Peng wrote:
Hi, I wonder if there is (free) js code out there that can generate 
xhtml/css validation links that people put at the bottom of their sites.


Maybe more of a philosophical question here, but: why would you want 
those links on all pages (assuming this is client work, yes)? Who are 
they useful to, if not other developers and/or yourself?



It's quite tedious to make the links manually, page by page.


Include files are your friend (even humble SSIs, if there's no 
server-side scripting language available)


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 24, 2006, at 4:23 PM, Taco Fleur wrote:

Forgot to mention, in Safari 2.0.4, a horizontal line showing up on  
top of each big button (1. click here to view our portfolio, 2...,  
3 4) and the 'mor' buttons. It looks to me it's caused by  
a:link {text-decoration: underline;}

  as the color is the same as text link you have.

Nice design, but for strange god know what reason I find the page  
very noisy. Maybe the guy with glasses and mustache looks too  
intimidating to me :) I always find man with that kind of mustache  
intimidating :)


Just kidding!


tee


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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 24, 2006, at 5:07 PM, ~davidLaakso wrote:


Taco Fleur wrote:
Yes that's the one I mean, I forgot to include a link  
www.pacificfox.com.au




Hi Taco, in Mac, Firefox gives me this error:
__
 Error Occurred While Processing Request
Session is invalid

Please try the following:

* Enable Robust Exception Information to provide greater detail  
about the source of errors. In the Administrator, click Debugging &  
Logging > Debugging Settings, and select the Robust Exception  
Information option.
* Check the ColdFusion documentation to verify that you are  
using the correct syntax.

* Search the Knowledge Base to find a solution to your problem.

Browser   	Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv: 
1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7

Remote Address  67.180.107.164
Referrer
Date/Time   25-Oct-06 10:21 AM

__

If I change to www.pacificfox.com the page loads fine.

tee




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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[~davidLaakso]

Taco Fleur wrote:

Yes that's the one I mean, I forgot to include a link www.pacificfox.com.au


Thanks, we don't have opera installed, we only code for Mozilla and IE.

You may want to view it in IE7.

 But
am more than happy to hear about any quick fixes you suggest to make it work
in Opera.


~dL

--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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[WSG] a js snippet that can generate xhtml/css validation links

[Tee G. Peng]

Hi, I wonder if there is (free) js code out there that can generate  
xhtml/css validation links that people put at the bottom of their sites.


It's quite tedious to make the links manually, page by page.

Thanks!

tee


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RE: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Taco Fleur]

Yes that's the one I mean, I forgot to include a link www.pacificfox.com.au


Thanks, we don't have opera installed, we only code for Mozilla and IE. But
am more than happy to hear about any quick fixes you suggest to make it work
in Opera.





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Re: [WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[John Faulds]

Also, any other feedback in relation to the site would be much  
appreciated,

eg. mark-up, semantics etc. (as long as it's related to the topic of this
list).


If you mean your Pacific Fox website, you might want to take a look at it  
in Opera 9 (8.5 appears to be OK).


--
Tyssen Design
Web & print design services
www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Rob O'Rourke]

Lachlan Hunt wrote:

Rob O'Rourke wrote:

Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon 
because dl is widely considered to be for marking up 
definitions.  Tantek has provided a more semantic example of in 
a old presentation of his.


See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".
http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22


You should probly take Tantek's advice there Lachlan =]


Why? What are you referring to?

I meant Morten should use Tantek's example, I was getting my wires 
crossed. Seriously they're all over the place...
Anyway my bad, Tantek's method of marking up a chat will blatantly be 
right on or at least closer to the money is what I meant to say.

Sorry for any confusion.

Rob


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[WSG] image disappears sporadically on mouse over - site check

[Taco Fleur]

 Dear all,

We just published our new website, and there is one issue we can't seem to
solve, it's related to the logo, it sometimes disappears for a fraction (I
believe on mouse over). It is hard to replicate, but it does happen.
Has anyone seen this before, and what would the fix be?

Also, any other feedback in relation to the site would be much appreciated,
eg. mark-up, semantics etc. (as long as it's related to the topic of this
list).

Thanks in advance.
 

Kind regards,
Taco Fleur - watch our new video online!   - visit
our newly designed website!   



Pacific FoxT
free call 1800 032 982 or mobile 0421 851 786 - fax 07 3414 6464,
international +61 7 3325 5103
www.pacificfox.com.au   an
industry leader with commercial experience since 1994 . 

our services: 

*   online, print, marketing & information technology

*   website, branding, logo, business cards, letterheads

*   hosting, e-commerce, domain names, sms solutions,
streaming video and complete web strategies






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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Lea de Groot]

James Crooke wrote:

Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because dl is
widely considered to be for marking up definitions.  Tantek has
provided
a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his.

See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".
http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22



I think the main point of Tantek's presentation is that it is good to 
add semantics to your markup, and this is what the OP is trying to do by 
using a definition list for his dialogue.

However, Tantek shows us how to add *more* semantics without using a dl.
Its not that the dl is inappropriate, hey, the W3C used it as a 
secondary example for DL usage, its just that there are better ways.[1]


(and I think James was trying to make a joke :))

Lea
[1] I really hate Tantek - he's so clever and thinks of so many things 
to which II go 'Doh! I should have thought of that!' ;)

--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] a new IE bug? maybe not

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tee G. Peng wrote:

Both methods work well except with Georg's method, there are slight
 shortcomings.


You've changed/added more from the original than I did :-)

I tested my suggested additions/changes on a copy of your original page
in Firefox from -6 to +20 font-steps, without any column-drops.

Retested just now with -6 to +40 steps. Same flawless result (no drops),
but I had to use my entire screen-width of 3800px in order to keep the
page in view at +40 font-steps.

--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:02 PM, David Dorward wrote:




I suggest you:

1: Stop using image replacement.  elements aren't deprecated.


Ah! Thanks. This actually was the next question I was going to ask :)
 I did a check on Yellowpipe online Lynx Viewer and see that it  
shows the alt text as well as the text for image replacement, and was  
questioning my choice before you message came through


tee


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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:11 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:




But did you try *tab*?  ;)


Yes I did.  I have the 'enable tab browsing' selected both in Safari  
and Firefox.


hmmm, embarrassing! I guess the problem is I don't know exactly how  
to 'tab'.  Ok how do you do that in Mac?


Works fine for me, but I don't see the reason why you'd use  
tabindex with

this type of menu.
How do you reach sub-menus?


OK, I was thinking when I tab to "programs" for example, I use 'up'  
and 'down' arrows combination to navigate the sub menus.
Maybe Al can explain this better? According to his PMM product page,  
the PMM is "Tab key friendly".


tee


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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Christian Montoya]

On 10/24/06, Tee G. Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.

http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html

The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from tabindex="1",
tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I try to tab them.
I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt', 'control' and 'command'.


Don't know the problem here, but you might be better off just putting
those menu links as high in the source as possible and letting users
reach them naturally. Tabindex can be especially difficult, especially
when users are tabbing through forms (first tab takes you to menu, not
the next form field).

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Thierry Koblentz]

Tee G. Peng wrote:
> Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.
>
> http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html

> The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from tabindex="1",
> tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I try to tab them.
> I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt', 'control' and 'command'.

But did you try *tab*?  ;)
Works fine for me, but I don't see the reason why you'd use tabindex with
this type of menu.
How do you reach sub-menus?

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com




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Re: [WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[David Dorward]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:47:43PM -0700, Tee G. Peng wrote:
> Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.
> 
> http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html
 
> The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from tabindex="1",  
> tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I try to tab them.  
> I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt', 'control' and 'command'.

Works here (although it suffers from "Skip to content link isn't first
item in the taborder" and "Image Replacement means the text of the
image is off the page so the focus box looks really weird").

I suggest you:

1: Stop using image replacement.  elements aren't deprecated.
2: Put your skip link at the front of the tab order
3: Check you are using a browser that supports navigation by tabbing

-- 
David Dorward  http://dorward.me.uk



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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Lachlan Hunt]

Rob O'Rourke wrote:

Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because 
dl is widely considered to be for marking up definitions.  Tantek has 
provided a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his.


See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".
http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22


You should probly take Tantek's advice there Lachlan =]


Why? What are you referring to?

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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[WSG] hack for IE that is "display:table"-challenged

[Thierry Koblentz]

Demo:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_ul2table_demo.asp
Article:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/make_an_html_list_look_like_a_table.asp


---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com




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[WSG] tabindex doesn't work

[Tee G. Peng]

Hi, this is the first time I try implementing tabindex for navigation.

http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html

The above page has 6 menu tabs and I have them set from tabindex="1",  
tabindex="2" and so on...but nothing happens when I try to tab them.  
I tried using combination of 'shift', 'alt', 'control' and 'command'.


Regards,

tee



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Re: [WSG] a new IE bug? maybe not

[Tee G. Peng]

On Oct 23, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


Hi Tee,
Donna is right, your wrapper and left column are set in EM while  
the right

column is in *px*.
So when the wrapper shrinks there is no room for the sidebar in there.
I'd try to float the sidebar left rather than right and go with a  
width of

"14em" (wrapper 48em - left column 34em).





The following addition will let the layout self-adjust and keep
everything lined up - regardless of font resizing...

#content {width: auto; margin-right: 230px;}

#right {margin-left: -216px;}

...and it'll still be an em-sized layout.

regards
Georg


Thanks Donna, Thierry and Georg,

Both methods work well except with Georg's method, there are slight  
shortcomings.


1) If margins set in Pixel, right column drops to bottom when font  
size increases

http://new.marinersq.com/html/georg.html
 - Mac Safari  & Camino/ PC Firefox: one increasement
- Mac Firefox : two increasement.

2) If margins set in EM, right column drops to bottom when font size  
decreases

http://new.marinersq.com/html/georg_em.html
- Mac Camino, PC Firefox : one decreasement
- Mac Firefox and Safari, - two decreasement (this should fine as  
it's unlikely people will decrease font-size twice)


3) Perfect solution
http://new.marinersq.com/html/thierry.html
Nothing drops in above mentioned browsers in Mac; in PC Firefox, it  
drops only after 4th times of decreasement.



tee



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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Rob O'Rourke]

James Crooke wrote:

*frowns*




Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because
dl is
widely considered to be for marking up definitions.  Tantek has
provided
a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his.

See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".
http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22





You should probly take Tantek's advice there Lachlan =]



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[WSG] Pure CSS dropdown Menu, take III

[Thierry Koblentz]

Now I'm using CSS to let users tab through the *current* sub-menu if there
is no script support, hence this solution is screen-reader and search-engine
friendly:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/

Thanks to Lachlan for the heads up.

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com




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Re: [WSG] Custom Font Families

[Lachlan Hunt]

Tom Livingston wrote:

On 10/24/06 10:54 AM, "Lachlan Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Why are you already against it, if you don't already have such
ammunition?  Normally, it's a good idea to understand an issue as much
as possible before you take sides.


I didn't say I was against it. I merely asked for facts that back up not
using it.


That means you're only interested in one side of the issue and looked to 
me like you were just looking for evidence to support your preconceived 
opinion.  You're much better off looking at issues from all sides and 
forming your opinions based on the facts.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[David Dorward]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:59:51PM +0200, Mihael Zadravec wrote:
>I realize that it is not a nice thing to use accesskeys that are used by
>browser software.. that is why I used accesskeys like "1", "2", "3"... I
>belive that is still usefull...

Aren't they used by default by certain screen reading software? (And
not all authors are so considerate anyway).

Which is why accesskeys are something that should be explicitly
enabled by users, or at least not bound to the same key as is used to
access browser functionality. (And that's a criticism of browsers, not
webpages)

-- 
David Dorward  http://dorward.me.uk



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Re: [WSG] Custom Font Families

[Tom Livingston]

On 10/24/06 10:54 AM, "Lachlan Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why are you already against it, if you don't already have such
> ammunition?  Normally, it's a good idea to understand an issue as much
> as possible before you take sides.

I didn't say I was against it. I merely asked for facts that back up not
using it.

-- 
Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com



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Re: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Mihael Zadravec]

I realize that it is not a nice thing to use accesskeys that are used by browser software.. that is why I used accesskeys like "1", "2", "3"... I belive that is still usefull...
On 10/24/06, Horst Gutmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-Hash: SHA1Mihael Zadravec schrieb:> http://www.nsk-slo.si/>> --->
> On 10/24/06, * Frances Berriman* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:>> URL of site?
>> On 10/24/06, *Mihael Zadravec* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> wrote:>> Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not work???>> In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does nothing...> Any ideas why?
>Works for me in Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US;rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061023 BonEcho/2.0. The numeric accesskeys, right?Regards, Horst-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-Version: GnuPG 
v1.4.5 (Darwin)iD8DBQFFPhnBe3xiN2SrYecRAnxOAJ4kGHDkmrgQr9R/oNHrdbz/nZsHRgCeJtA2IjRGAr3qZNgcPJPUuhHfjDc==mSHG-END PGP SIGNATURE-***
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-- Mihael Zadravectel: 00386 51 808136email in msn: mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: mihael_zadravec---Toasted Web
http://www.toastedweb.com---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com

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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[James Crooke]

*frowns*
On 10/24/06, Lachlan Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
morten fjellman wrote:> Hi list,> I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the actual
> message? The message would typically be:> NickName says:> Ain't this cool?>> I was thinking a DL, like this:>> > NickName says:
> Ain't this cool?> Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because dl iswidely considered to be for marking up definitions.  Tantek has provided
a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his.See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22
--Lachlan Hunthttp://lachy.id.au/***List Guidelines: 
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Re: [WSG] Custom Font Families

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 24 Oct 2006, at 15:20:22, Tom Livingston wrote:


Listers,

I am being asked for "ammunition" against pushing custom font families
to visitors of a Web site. Anyone have any references on this?  
WEFT, eot, etc.


I know it has been discussed, but google has been fruitless as of yet.



Off the top of my head:

1. WEFT is only supported by Internet Explorer.

2. Microsoft appear to have done nothing at all with WEFT since  
releasing WEFT 3.2 in February 2003: .


3. Microsoft themselves don't, AFAIK, use WEFT at all on their own  
web properties. If the creator of the technology doesn't think it's  
practical or worthwhile to use it, and hasn't updated it in three-and- 
a-half years, it implies that reliance on it would be foolhardy, as  
they may well decide to just let the technology die.


4. (This gets more fun the more I look into it) On Microsoft's list  
of demos at  it states: "These demos are for Internet Explorer 4.  
Internet Explorer 5 and 5.5 exhibit some alignment problems in the  
more complex demos." I would conclude from this that MS aren't  
exactly investing a lot of effort in this one.


5. A google search for "weft security" or "embedded open type  
security" reveals a number of security advisories. While it appears  
that MS has issued patches for these problems, it is likely (given  
the apparent lack of interest in ongoing development of these  
technologies) that further vulnerabilities might be exposed, which  
may in the first instance be dealt with by security products blocking  
access to sites using said technologies. Thus your site could be  
blocked by, say, Norton Internet Security until such time as MS got  
around to patching such a vulnerability - and we all know how long  
that can take.


Those might give you a start :-)

Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] Custom Font Families

[Lachlan Hunt]

Tom Livingston wrote:

I am being asked for "ammunition" against pushing custom font families
to visitors of a Web site. Anyone have any references on this? WEFT, eot,
etc.


Why are you already against it, if you don't already have such 
ammunition?  Normally, it's a good idea to understand an issue as much 
as possible before you take sides.


Conceptually, providing downloadable fonts is not bad idea.  There are 
many benefits for design and typography that can make it quite useful, 
when used properly.  However, like any technology, it has its 
limitations and can be abused.


Presently, the major limitation is that browser support is very limited. 
 CSS2 @font-face font desciptors are only somewhat implemented by IE, 
using downloadable fonts in EOT files.  No other browser supports it, 
and the @font-face features have since been dropped from CSS 2.1 and 
work is being done by the CSSWG to replace it with something better in CSS3.


The major problems with custom fonts stem from its ability to be abused. 
 It's very important to not use downloadable fonts as a mechanism to 
render custom glyphs.  e.g. Proving a downloadable font with glyphs, 
much like those found in the Wingdings font families, which contain 
pictures in place of ordinary characters.  The problem with doing that 
is that only visual users will see the custom glyphs, whereas screen 
readers, search engines and browsers that don't support downloadable 
fonts get meaningless text.


See, for example, these old demos provided by Microsoft, which are good 
examples of what not to do with downloadable fonts.


http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/demos/3/demo3.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/demos/3/demo3b.htm

In such cases, images are much more appropriate.

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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[WSG] Custom Font Families

[Tom Livingston]

Title: Custom Font Families



Listers,

I am being asked for "ammunition" against pushing custom font families
to visitors of a Web site. Anyone have any references on this? WEFT, eot, etc.

I know it has been discussed, but google has been fruitless as of yet.

Thanks


-- 
Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | 
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com





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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Lachlan Hunt]

morten fjellman wrote:

Hi list,
I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the actual
message? The message would typically be:
NickName says:
Ain't this cool?

I was thinking a DL, like this:


NickName says:
Ain't this cool?



Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because dl is 
widely considered to be for marking up definitions.  Tantek has provided 
a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his.


See "XHTML Compound: Conversation".
http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Horst Gutmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mihael Zadravec schrieb:
> http://www.nsk-slo.si/
>
> ---
>
> On 10/24/06, * Frances Berriman* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> URL of site?
>
> On 10/24/06, *Mihael Zadravec* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not work???
>
> In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does nothing...
> Any ideas why?
>

Works for me in Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US;
rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061023 BonEcho/2.0. The numeric accesskeys, right?

Regards, Horst
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFFPhnBe3xiN2SrYecRAnxOAJ4kGHDkmrgQr9R/oNHrdbz/nZsHRgCeJtA2
IjRGAr3qZNgcPJPUuhHfjDc=
=mSHG
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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RE: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Berman, Pamela D]

It may 
be that Mozilla has implemented something similar to how Opera works. In Opera, 
if the Accesskey is already being used by the browser (for example: Alt + B 
opens the Bookmarks menu), it won't work on the web page. Firefox 1.5 doesn't 
override browser shortcuts but maybe version 2.0 does.
 
Accesskeys can be very useful for some people but if it overrides a 
browser shortcut, people who need to use the browser shortcut to 
navigate are in trouble.
 
http://accessify.com/2005/11/trouble-with-accesskeys.php
 
Pam

  
  
  From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mihael 
  ZadravecSent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:04 AMTo: 
  wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] Access key does not work in 
  Firefox browser?
  Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not 
  work???In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does 
  nothing...Any ideas why?-- Mihael Zadravectel: 
  00386 51 808136email in msn: mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: 
  mihael_zadravec---Toasted 
  Webhttp://www.toastedweb.com 
  ---Miss G. / 
  bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com 
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Re: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Mihael Zadravec]

http://www.nsk-slo.si/---On 10/24/06, 
Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
URL of site?On 10/24/06, Mihael Zadravec <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not work???In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does nothing...Any ideas why?-- Mihael Zadravectel: 00386 51 808136
email in msn: 
mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: mihael_zadravec---Toasted Web
http://www.toastedweb.com
---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com



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Toasted Webhttp://www.toastedweb.com---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com


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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[morten fjellman]

Excellent! Thanks for replying. I have already written the code, so it's good to get it confirmed.Kind regardsMorten
> Hi list,> I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the> actual message? The message would typically be:> NickName says:> Ain't this cool?>> I was thinking a DL, like this:
>> >  NickName says:>  Ain't this cool?> >> Am I way off here?Looks good to me, you could then do the skype style thing where if
NickName types two messages in a row you'd just write out another .I prefer that to other IM programs.For marking up the relationship between name and message(s) Icouldn't think of a more suitable structure offered by HTML.
Rob

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Re: [WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Frances Berriman]

URL of site?On 10/24/06, Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not work???In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does nothing...Any ideas why?-- Mihael Zadravectel: 00386 51 808136email in msn: 
mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: mihael_zadravec---Toasted Web
http://www.toastedweb.com
---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com


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[WSG] Access key does not work in Firefox browser?

[Mihael Zadravec]

Is it possible that in Firefox 2.0 Accesskey does not work???In IE 7 works fine but with Firefox 2.0 it just does nothing...Any ideas why?-- Mihael Zadravectel: 00386 51 808136email in msn: 
mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: mihael_zadravec---Toasted Webhttp://www.toastedweb.com
---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com

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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[Rob O'Rourke]

morten fjellman wrote:

Hi list,
I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the 
actual message? The message would typically be:

NickName says:
Ain't this cool?

I was thinking a DL, like this:


 NickName says:
 Ain't this cool?


Am I way off here?

Kind regards
Morten



   Looks good to me, you could then do the skype style thing where if 
NickName types two messages in a row you'd just write out another . 
I prefer that to other IM programs.
   For marking up the relationship between name and message(s) I 
couldn't think of a more suitable structure offered by HTML.


   Rob


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[WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?

[morten fjellman]

Hi list,I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the actual message? The message would typically be:NickName says: Ain't this cool?I was thinking a DL, like this:
 NickName says: Ain't this cool?Am I way off here?Kind regardsMorten

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