Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws?
Hi Charles and All, Thanks for the answer. Sadly next yr the budget will be even worse. But the Fed Stimulus program has money that the state can use for it so maybe mention that to Rep Hasner. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Charles Whalen" To: "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:03:03 -0400 >Hi Jerry, > >Good question. Nothing got passed this year, not for EVs >nor for anything else. The state faced a $6 billion budget >shortfall that had to be closed, so the Legislature did not >permit any new appropriations nor any new tax breaks, no >exceptions allowed. > >Having said that, we are working closely with House >Majority Leader Adam Hasner on some other possibilities, >through other channels, for trying to fund state rebates >for plug-in hybrid conversions. It's early and we still >have a ways to go, but the prospects look fairly good of >having something by the fall. We'll keep everyone posted. > >Thanks, > >Charles Whalen > > >- Original Message - >From: "jerryd" >To: "FLEAA Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:37 PM >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? > > Hi Shawn and All, > > There were proposed EV laws from EV >incentives, no sales tax, no tolls, ect. Does anyone know >what actually got passed? > > Thanks, > > Jerry Dycus >- Original Message Follows - >From: "Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA" >To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" >Subject: [FLEAA] Reminder: Meeting in Boca Saturday Morning >Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:11:07 -0400 > >>Hi Everyone, >> >> >> >>Just a reminder that our monthly meeting in Boca Raton >>will be this Saturday at Coastal Tire - hope to see >>everyone there. >> >> >> >>Charles Whalen will be giving an update on some of the >>Clean Cities activities and grants. >> >> >> >>-- >>Shawn M. Waggoner >> >> >> >>___ >>Florida EAA mailing list >>listserv@floridaeaa.org >>http://www.floridaeaa.org > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws?
Hi Shawn and All, There were proposed EV laws from EV incentives, no sales tax, no tolls, ect. Does anyone know what actually got passed? Thanks, Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA" To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" Subject: [FLEAA] Reminder: Meeting in Boca Saturday Morning Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:11:07 -0400 >Hi Everyone, > > > >Just a reminder that our monthly meeting in Boca Raton will >be this Saturday at Coastal Tire - hope to see everyone >there. > > > >Charles Whalen will be giving an update on some of the >Clean Cities activities and grants. > > > >-- >Shawn M. Waggoner > > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Tribute/Escape Electric Plug-in Conversion
Hi James and All, A 7" is not going to move an Escape without a transmission for long and even there would be marginal for it's rather short life as it will burn up. I'm assuming it's a 3800lb+ stock weight vehicle. 7" motors are for under 2500lb vehicles and even at that weight should have a transmission or geared for 45-50 mph max with a high amp controller. To make a plug in Hybrid you'd need to put the 8-11" e motor on the transmission with say a Geo metro 3cyl in front clutched to it and a big gen on the ICE. Now an early Suzuki SUV or other under 3000lb with a 9" and 1000+ amp controller might work if geared for say 70-75mph max your way. One way the 7" might work is to gear it for 45-50 mph with a clutch so it doesn't over rev. An inexpensive way would be make a V belt clutch with a 3V/5V type belt reduction and an idler pulley to clutch it in and out. Might have rain problems if not enclosed and better not forget declutching it to go faster. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "James R. Parish" To: "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: [FLEAA] Tribute/Escape Electric Plug-in Conversion Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 20:40:27 -0400 >Well, I have decided to go ahead with installing a >TransWarp 7" motor inline with the rear driveshaft on my >2008 Mazda Tribute. I'll be ordering the EMIS, motor and >controller next week. Anyone else in Florida done this >conversion yet? > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
Hi Charles and All, I was kind of thinking we could get a proposal together that's more realistic and actually does something good since we have the pols there and can show them real life EV's. We could use my points below as a starting point and add, subtract from it and vet it for facts like are there any qualified kits? What exactly is the SAE standard? Make a proposal with part numbers for the charging outlets. The feds just did a 50% tax credit for charging points too. Anyone have ideas we could put in, change, ect? If we could get it done by Wed I could email it out to the pols, transportation aids, Gov Crist in advance. Luckily the leadership seem to be on our side!! WE have a good chance here to move the ball in Fla for EV's and we should prepare and take it. It's amazing Fla has been so backward but in the last 3 yrs both RE and EV's are getting help, moving into the future!! I certainly would like to see EV builders like me, others get start up funding, either loans or grants as banks won't for my Freedom EV and others wanting to put people to work. We should also present conversion shops as a job maker and EV's as a new industry. I only drive my EV 3wh MC (as a tree took out my car, trailer, EV trike, camper, cash) which has a 40 mile range so I can't make it unless I can share gas, hotel expenses from someone coming from or through the Tampa area. If anyone can I could use a ride as this looks like an EVent we all need to be at. I'm just 1 mile off I-75 SE of Tampa. Thanks, Jerry Dycus >Hi Jerry, > >Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, which I'll pass >along. Look forward to seeing you later this week at BBB, >when we can discuss further. > >Til then, best, > >Charles > > >- Original Message - >From: "jerryd" > > > Hi Charles and All, > >Reading the text under this under Bill >Text > >http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983&SessionId=61 > > The rebate may be impossible to get. > Are there any Fed qualifying Kits for specific models you >must have to get it? Which are they? > Even if so only 100 rebates are available/yr. > The only one to actually get money maybe is the Fla Solar >Energy Center which gets $200k /yr for administration of >$200k/yr of 100 rebates. > > > The charging stations only allows Avcon and Magna-charger >outlets I believe the SAE standard is so can anyone use >them? Maybe yours and other RAV4 EV's of which they are 2-4 >in the state but who else? I know the Magna-charger is no >longer made and the Avcon? Much better is to use standard >RV outlets everyone uses. Spelling may be off. > >Maybe suggest these changes. > > Cut everything but 60 mph highway capable, 2-3-4wheel >eligible > 4-6kwhr/1hr rate battery pack or more. Voltage, amphr, are >not needed, only kwhr is. > inspected by DMV to FSEC standards, tilted in Fla. > For safety must have 3 safety cut offs of fuses, breakers, >contactors. > Propulsion power must be isolated from body/chassis. > KIS > >For $50k FSEC could write a reasonable, doable EV >conversion standard DMV inspectors can follow and publish >it. The rest of the $350K/yr for 175 rebates/yr. Or better >if they want an industry change that to $4M for 2000/yr >rebates creating more jobs, EV's which I'd think would be >the point. > > Maybe restrict it to Fla built conversions, new EV's. > > Take the money from the gasoline road, the utility tax >funds or the stimulus to cover it. > > For charging standard RV 240 and 120 vac outlets with GFI >with a weather cover to keep plugging in dry. > >EV legislation isn't any good if it can't be used by >enough to make a difference. > > The sales tax break on EV's, EV parts and free tolls >will help. > > Charging outlets on rest areas, turnpike service areas >and every 20 miles along interstates at gas stations or >restaurants, ect if those are not available would help a >lot. > > Thoughts anyone? > > Jerry Dycus > > >- Original Message Follows - >From: "Charles Whalen" >To: "FLEAA Mailing List" >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida >electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday >Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:33:31 -0500 > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
Hi Charles and All, Reading the text under this under Bill Text http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983&SessionId=61 The rebate may be impossible to get. Are there any Fed qualifying Kits for specific models you must have to get it? Which are they? Even if so only 100 rebates are available/yr. The only one to actually get money maybe is the Fla Solar Energy Center which gets $200k /yr for administration of $200k/yr of 100 rebates. The charging stations only allows Avcon and Magna-charger outlets I believe the SAE standard is so can anyone use them? Maybe yours and other RAV4 EV's of which they are 2-4 in the state but who else? I know the Magna-charger is no longer made and the Avcon? Much better is to use standard RV outlets everyone uses. Spelling may be off. Maybe suggest these changes. Cut everything but 60 mph highway capable, 2-3-4wheel eligible 4-6kwhr/1hr rate battery pack or more. Voltage, amphr, are not needed, only kwhr is. inspected by DMV to FSEC standards, tilted in Fla. For safety must have 3 safety cut offs of fuses, breakers, contactors. Propulsion power must be isolated from body/chassis. KIS For $50k FSEC could write a reasonable, doable EV conversion standard DMV inspectors can follow and publish it. The rest of the $350K/yr for 175 rebates/yr. Or better if they want an industry change that to $4M for 2000/yr rebates creating more jobs, EV's which I'd think would be the point. Maybe restrict it to Fla built conversions, new EV's. Take the money from the gasoline road, the utility tax funds or the stimulus to cover it. For charging standard RV 240 and 120 vac outlets with GFI with a weather cover to keep plugging in dry. EV legislation isn't any good if it can't be used by enough to make a difference. The sales tax break on EV's, EV parts and free tolls will help. Charging outlets on rest areas, turnpike service areas and every 20 miles along interstates at gas stations or restaurants, ect if those are not available would help a lot. Thoughts anyone? Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Charles Whalen" To: "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:33:31 -0500 >Hi Jerry, > >There's no such thing as a tax credit for individuals here >in Florida because of course Florida doesn't have a >personal income tax. But there is a $2,000 rebate for >individuals, from the state, that is in the legislation. > >Charles > > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
peed > >vehicles .. Effective d a t e . - Th e Senate amendment > is > >generally effective for vehicles sold after > >December 31, 2009. The credit for plug-in vehicle > >conversion is effective for propert y placed in > >service after December 31, 2008, in taxable years > beginning > >after such date. > > > > > >Conf er ence Agr e e me nt > >The conference agreement follows the Senate amendment > with > >substantial modifications. > >Cr e d i t for electric dr i ve low-speed vehicles, > >motorcycles, a n d t hr ee- wheel ed vehicles > >With respect to electric drive low-speed vehicles, > >motorcycles, and th~ee-w~eeled > >vehicles, the conference agreement follows the Senate > >amendment with the following > >modifications. Under the conference agreement, the maxi > mum > >credit available is $2,500. The > >conference agreement also makes other technical > changes. > >Cr e d i t for conver t i ng a vehicle i nt o a plug-in > el > >ect ri c dr i ve mo t o r vehicle > >With respect to plug-in vehicle conversions, the > conference > >agreement follows the Senate > >amendment but increases the mi ni mum capacity o f a > >qualified bat t ery module to four kilowatt- > >hours, changes the effective date to propert y pl aced > in > >service aft er the date o f enactment, and > >eliminates the credit for plug-in conversions made aft > er > >December 3 1 , 2 0 1 1 . The conference > >agreement also removes the rule permi t t i ng lessors > o f > >bat t ery modul es to cl ai m the pl ug-i n > >conversion credit. > > > >Modification o f t he plug-in electric dr i ve mo t o r > >vehicle c r e d i t The conferen~e agreement modifies > the > >pl ug-i n electric dri ve mot or vehicle credit by > >limiting the maximum credit to $7,500 regardless o f > vehi > >cl e weight. .The conference agreement > >also eliminates the credit for low speed plug-in > vehicles > >and for pl ug-i n vehicles weighing > >14,000 pounds or more. > >The conference agreement replaces the 250, 000 total pl > >ug-i n vehi cl e limitation with a > >200,000 plug-in vehicles p e r manuf act ur er > limitation. > >The cr edi t phases out over four calendar > >quarters begi nni ng in the second calendar quarter > >following the quarter in which the > >manufact urer l i mi t is reached. The conference > agreement > >also makes other technical changes. > >The changes to the plug-in electric drive motor vehicle > >credit are effective for vehicles > >acquired after December 31, 2009. > > > >Tr e a t me n t o f a l t e r na t i ve mot or vehicle > cr > >edi t as a per sonal c r e di t allowed agai ns t t he > >a l t e r na t i ve mi n i mu m t ax > >The conference agreement provides that the alternative > mot > >or vehicle credit is a personal > >credit allowed against the alternative minimum tax. The > >provision is effective for taxable years > >begi nni ng after December 31, 2008. > > > >"Present law provides for certain nonrefundable > personal > >tax credits (i.e., the dependent > >care credit, the credit for the elderly and disabled, > the > >adoption credit, the child credit, the credit > >for interest on certain home mortgages, the Hope > >Scholarship and Lifetime Learning credits, the > >credit for savers, the credit for certain nonbusiness > >energy property, the credit for residential > >energy efficient property, the credit for plug-in > electric > >drive motor vehicles, and the D.C. first- > >time homebuyer credit). > >For taxable years beginning before 2009, the > nonrefundable > >personal credits are allowed > >to the extent o f the full amount o f the > individual's > >regular tax and alternative minimum tax. > >For taxable years beginning after 2008, the > nonrefundable > >personal credits (other than the > >adoption credit, the child credit, the credit for > savers, > >the credit for residential energy efficient > >property, and the credit for plug-in electric drive > motor > >vehicles) are allowed only to the extent > >that the individual's regular income tax liability > exceeds > >the individual's tentative minimum tax, > >detennined without regard to the minimum tax foreign > tax > >credit. The adoption credit, the child > >credit, the credit for savers, the credit for > residential > >energy efficient property, and the credit for > >plug-in electric drive motor vehicles are allowed to > the > >full extent o f the individual's regular tax > >and alternative minimum tax" > > > >On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:04 PM, jerryd > > >wrote: > > > >> > >>Hi All, > >>I was just looking over the stimulus > bill, HR1 > >> summary and found some interesting things for us. > >> Besides the up to $8500 for a new EV, > they > >> have a new EV drive conversion kit credits which I > think > >> are for converting hybrids but might work for our > >> conversions depending on the actual wording. It > also > >> mentions other expanding credits to other plug in > >> vehicles that might otherwise not qualify. > Hopefully 3wh > >> EV's will be one of them. > >> Another is a 50% credit for alt > refueling > >> station equipment up to %50k and 50% for personal > alt > >> energy refueling stations up to $2k which might be > >> applied to home battery chargers and outlets. > >> Hopefully someone with faster > bandwidth that > >> my 4kb/sec could look these up to see exactly what > they > >> are in the bill which is many times larger than I > can > >> handle and post just that section here. > >> The RE has been expanded to much more > >> different RE, mostly 30% credits > >> Here's a URL to get started. > It's under the > >> renewable energy section for the EV stuff. The > last in > >> the summary so probably the last part of the bill. > >> > >> > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/62135.html > >> > >> Jerry Dycus > >> ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Zap in Wired, EV Predictions
Hi Andrew and All, Gary Star tried to con me too with stock but I smelled a rat and then found out how bad they were. I know of multiple people they tried and a few they did con out of money. They go to other peoples events and try to take over. They stole EVer's website pics, specs of EV's and said they were selling them but never had the owners permission. Always trying to buy stuff with their worthless stock. A real sleezy operation. A Santa Cruz paper I think it was tracked down many court cases against them from all their cons and did an expose'. It was a very long list. Recently Star tried to win the last good Sunrise body/chassis on Ebay but I managed to win the bidding by snipping better. Lee Hart is now making it into a EV kitcar. Star managed to get another early not as good one later but hasn't done anything with it. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Andrew" To: , "'FLEAA Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [FLEAA] Zap in Wired, EV Predictions Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:55:10 -0500 >This is a very detail and interesting article. >Someone could make a movie out of what has happened with >this company over the years. >The comments at the end of the article are enlightening and >run on for four pages. >Thanks Jerry. > >Andrew > >-Original Message- >From: listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org >[mailto:listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org] On Behalf Of >jerryd Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:31 AM >To: Al Lococo; FLEAA Mailing List >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Zap in Wired, EV Predictions > > > Hi Al and All, > Here's a good article on Zap everyone should >read. >http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-04/ff_zapped?currentPa >ge=1 > >- Original Message Follows - >From: "Al Lococo" >To: "FLEAA Mailing List" >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:33:51 -0500 > >>FWIW, see the mans own remarks here, scroll down to >>Switching Off: >> >>http://sirycars.blogspot.com/ >> >>Cheers, >>Al Lococo >>www.evprogress.org >>Think Globally, Act Locally! >>Plug-in, we have the technology, the NiMH powered RAV4 EV >>is the proof. - Original Message - >>From: "Jason Davis" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:47 AM >>Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions >> >> >> >>What differences? >> > From: bobandr...@comcast.net> To: whal...@bellsouth.net >>; listserv@floridaeaa.org> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:39:26 >>-0500> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions> > I believe >>he resigned because of differences in management style.> >>> Andrew> > -Original Message-> From: >>listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org> >>[mailto:listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org] On Behalf Of >>Charles Whalen> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:11 PM> >>To: FLEAA Mailing List> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV >>Predictions> > When did Siry get canned?> > And why?> > >>Anyone know?> > > - Original Message - > From: >>"Andrew" > To: "'FLEAA Mailing >>List'" > Sent: Friday, January >>23 , 2009 7:25 PM> Subject: [FLEAA] EV Predictions> > >>Here are some interesting predictions for EVs.> > >>http://darrylsiry.blogspot.com/> > Andrew> > > > >>___> Florida >>EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >>http://www.floridaeaa.org> > > >>___> Florida >>EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >>http://www.floridaeaa.org> > > >>___> Florida >>EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >>http://www.floridaeaa.org >>__ >>_ __ Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways >to >>connect. >>http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_ >>explore_012009 >>___ Florida >>EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org >>http://www.floridaeaa.org >> >> >> >>___ >>Florida EAA mailing list >>listserv@floridaeaa.org >>http://www.floridaeaa.org > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Zap in Wired, EV Predictions
Hi Al and All, Here's a good article on Zap everyone should read. http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-04/ff_zapped?currentPage=1 - Original Message Follows - From: "Al Lococo" To: "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:33:51 -0500 >FWIW, see the mans own remarks here, scroll down to >Switching Off: > >http://sirycars.blogspot.com/ > >Cheers, >Al Lococo >www.evprogress.org >Think Globally, Act Locally! >Plug-in, we have the technology, the NiMH powered RAV4 EV >is the proof. - Original Message - >From: "Jason Davis" >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:47 AM >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions > > > >What differences? > > From: bobandr...@comcast.net> To: whal...@bellsouth.net; >listserv@floridaeaa.org> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:39:26 >-0500> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions> > I believe he >resigned because of differences in management style.> > >Andrew> > -Original Message-> From: >listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org> >[mailto:listserv-boun...@floridaeaa.org] On Behalf Of >Charles Whalen> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:11 PM> >To: FLEAA Mailing List> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EV >Predictions> > When did Siry get canned?> > And why?> > >Anyone know?> > > - Original Message - > From: >"Andrew" > To: "'FLEAA Mailing >List'" > Sent: Friday, January 23 >, 2009 7:25 PM> Subject: [FLEAA] EV Predictions> > Here >are some interesting predictions for EVs.> > >http://darrylsiry.blogspot.com/> > Andrew> > > > >___> Florida >EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >http://www.floridaeaa.org> > > >___> Florida >EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >http://www.floridaeaa.org> > > >___> Florida >EAA mailing list> listserv@floridaeaa.org> >http://www.floridaeaa.org >___ >__ Windows LiveĀ: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to >connect. >http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] My mathematical explanation of the extreme oil pricevolatility we are seeing in a post Peak Oil world
Hi Charles, Fran and All, I've been watching oil, energy, economics since 67 and what you both wrote is true. Oil will cost up to about $6-7/gal in today's $ as at that rate even the dinosaurs that don't want to change will. I flipped over before it was $2/gal as I'm cheap. Why it won't go above that is other forms of RE, fossil energy becomes cheaper. For instance a 1kw windgen axialflux type, can be built for under $300 in parts for 50 yrs about 3-7kwhr/day depending on Fla site. In fact wind, solar thermal generator, tidal power cost less than a new coal, $6500kw or Nuke $9,000,in mass production, under $3,000kw. While some will say on solar thermal generators it only happens when the sun shines but in Fla that's peak electric time worth much more/KWhr. And one can use a back up burner or engine using any fuel to power the thermal generator when the sun doesn't shine. This give hot water and heating too. Most any dry biomass can be converted to liquid, gaseous fuels as can oil sands, shale or coal at less than $5/gal with FT process now used to convert NG into Diesel. But getting people, corps to switch is very hard. Luckily politicians now see it's not just eco problems but national, economic security reasons and recently the dems in the bailout package put in some energy and EV supports with more coming soon. And it needs to be soon as when the economy comes back the speculators will again drive up the price as the oil production limits are hit, oil will go up to $5/gal. I believe peak oil production happened last July as we are using 4bbls for every bbl we find in the world, it won't ever be larger though demand certainly will grow. But for those like on this list doing EV's, other energy conservation and some making their own power will do well vs those who won't get prepared. There is a good amount of money to be made making RE power now Fla has passed net metering where they pay you what they charge you for electric on the grid. And the money you save not buying gas for transport makes RE, EV's the way of the future or pay through the nose. Jerry Dycus ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] VERY INTERESTED
Hi Michael and All, Now with the car market tanking you should be able to get some very good prices on new cars like the Echo, Mazda3, Focus, ect and build new EV's all the same way and could be sold for about $20k, $10k for the glider and $10k for the conversion, profit. By only doing 1 model really cuts production costs and since new could sell to fleets, Gov, ect. A battery buying club/used/core exchange would be a good idea on it's own we should consider could cut our battery cost by 1/4-1/3. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: [FLEAA] VERY INTERESTED Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:36:20 -0500 >> >> Hello Shawn, >> I the meeting today I mentioned a movement in Finland to >> establish a cooperative effort to build several hundred >> EV's using a bulk buy approach and "open source" model >> for conversion, to Harvey Bennett. He and I were thinking >that this idea may be of interest to FLEAA members, and may >> be a good initiative to propose at the Battery Beach >> Burnout. This is a summary ot the Finnish effort: >> >> http://www.sahkoautot.fi/eng:ev-press1 >> >> Harvey and I envision building/converting EV's with a >> cooperative many-hands-on Workshop, using the selected >> components, such as mentioned in >> the Finnish example. For example, following the bulk-buy >> of motors, batteries, etc. 6-10 people would congregate >> at Coastl Tire and collectively >> disassemble the IC auto and assemble the EV in one day >> (or so). This would be done for multiple copies of the EV >> on successive weekends (or so) up to several hundred... >> >> The FLEAA meetings, and Battery Beach Burnout would be >> good venues to see if >> the idea is of interest to enough people to proceed with >> the coop organization. >> >> Any interest? >> > >This is what we are doing up in tarpon springs at the >suneva meeting. we want more cars to convert and have put >out the word that anyone can bring their ice car and get it >deiced and eved. > >if anyone wants to provide the cars and the parts we'll be >happy to build the cars as many as we can do. > >michael clark >president suneva >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Superbeetle glider to finished EV available.
Hi All, To raise money to finish the FreedomEV I'm selling a nice Blue metalflake 74 Superbeetle glider for $1200 perfect for an inexpensive EV or I'll finish it to your specs if you want. Email me offlist or call, 813-671-3059 in Tampa. Thanks, Jerry Dycus ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Where to buy electrical components in Florida?
Hi Jeremiah and All, Steve Clunn of GrassrootsEV in WPB has some different models and D+D Motors has good prices on Altrax controllers in NY. Practical Electronics is Ham, TV, Radio electronics though have some low amp relays, 1-10watt power resistors, ect. I'd call before driving there. You are going to have to mail order almost anything you need as little is available on the Fla west coast in stock. Grassroots is the only EV parts, controller source I know of in Fla. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Jeremiah Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Where to buy electrical components in Florida? Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 09:39:49 -0400 >Hmm, I just called Practial Electronics and asked if they >sold contollers for DC Brushed motors, and the guy seemed >to have no idea what I was talking about. > >On 10/3/08, Jeremy Ludes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> tampabay Area...I am not sure if they are still around >> but you may want to Check out Practical Electronics I >> think they are on Hillsborough...There is one other place >> that has controllers but its escaped me I will try and >>find it again. >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Jeremiah Johnson >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know of a place to buy electrical >> components in Tampa Bay area, >> > or at least in Florida? The only places that I can >> find online are usually >> > in California or Texas. I am in need of a 72v400a >> > controller for a DC brushed motor. I am having some >> problems with my ride and I think it might >> > be the controller cutting out. >> > ___ >> > Florida EAA mailing list >> > listserv@floridaeaa.org >> > http://www.floridaeaa.org >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeremy Ludes >> 727-415-2877 >> ___ >> Florida EAA mailing list >> listserv@floridaeaa.org >> http://www.floridaeaa.org >> >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Lectric leapords
Hi Frank and All, What ever happened to those 2 Lectric Leapords you had? Did they ever get on the road? Thanks, Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Frank Bonilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
Hi Charles and All, - Original Message Follows - From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Florida EAA" , "Jamie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 01:02:57 -0400 >> You will never have an annual credit if you live in >> South Florida unless you have a huge system and >> never run your AC. > >You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design >your house correctly. I have met several such people with >homes in South Florida who do not need and don't use AC and >yet live and sleep cool and comfortably, including some >green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one such >home myself. There are people with PV homes in South >Florida who *do* have annual credits. Another way is to insulate well with a small area and stay cool. I can't sleep if over 80F and high humidity. But my electric bill is only $40 last month with full time cooling. That's only 8kwhr/day so one should be able to get a check at the end of the yr. I got my PSC comment on net metering in the record. Only 6 people bothered to comment so we could really make a difference if just 20 of us commented regularly on PSC policies. I also commented on Nukes and AE on other PSC rules. Will comment shortly on the new rate increases which are up 30-50% over the next couple yrs on the west coast on why AE hasn't been implemented as wind, solar thermal engines, tidal power and conservation are cost effective and becoming more so as fossil fuel, nukes go up in price. > >As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the >legislator who authored and introduced it into the >legislature is that it is a done deal, passed, signed into >law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and implemented >by the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader >Adam Hasner's office just a few days ago and had this very >conversation with him. He said he was quite sure that the >PSC had already implemented it but said he would check on >that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head >of the PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam >the relevant info, which Adam then forwarded onto me. Here >is the information, from the head of the Florida PSC: > >--- > >Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of >the net metering rule: > >http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 Assuming they are implemented then this is a very good set of rules, especially with as pro public hookup cost, ect wise, putting the onus on the utility. The PSC aids are very pro AE, progressive and they write the rules, do everything so talk to them. > > >25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned >Renewable Generation > >* The Rule 25-6.065 will further encourage the development >of customer-owned renewable generation by expanding >eligibility under the rule to all renewable technologies, >and increasing the capacity covered under the rule to 2 MW. > >* The rule provides more detailed interconnection >requirements by incorporating nationally recognized >standards for interconnection and safety-IEEE 1547, IEEE >1547.1, and UL 1741-as well as explicit due dates for >action by the utility and customer. > >* System size eligibility is broken into three Tiers: 1) up >to 10kW; 2) greater than 10kW up to 100kW; and 3) greater >than 100kW up to 2MW. > >* Tier 1 incorporates systems addressed in past FPSC rules, >and will largely capture residential customers. Tier 1 >systems are exempt from several fees and obligations >applied to the Tier 2 or 3 customers, including: >application fees, liability insurance coverage, expenses >related to manual disconnect switches, and interconnection >study charges (Tier 3 only). > >* The rule requires net metering for customer-owned >renewable generation systems interconnected pursuant to the >rule. > >* Credit for excess energy sent to the grid during any >billing period will be carried forward and applied to the >next billing period to offset the customer's consumption. >At the end of the year any remaining excess energy credits >will be purchased by the IOU's at their avoided cost rate. > >* IOUs will be responsible for installing, at their expense >, any meters required to enable net metering of excess >energy. > >* The rule states that any Renewable Energy Certificates >associated with a customer's self-generation will be >retained by the customer. If an additional meter is needed >to measure total energy generated by the customer in order >to obtain the RECs, the customer will be responsible for >those costs. The customer may negotiate with the IOU for >the purchase of the customer's RECs. > >--- > >Jamie, sounds like what you've got is a problem with FPL >dragging their feet and not complying with the law. I >would suggest that you first take this up with FPL, inform >them that they are in non-compliance with the law, forward >them this information, including my entire emai
Re: [FLEAA] Charging Station Specs
Hi Michele and All, I believe only utilities can sell electricity in Fla so you might want to check that out before buying meters. Of course I don't think the electric company will mess with those whom give them their Ok to do business. Or since they are the only ones, shame, reqire them into putting charging outlets in various places. Generally for quite a while the cost of charging EV's until there are more of them, is not going to be worth the cost, hassle to collect it. If an EV charge point spent more than $10/month on it's electric, probably much less, I'd be surprised. In my last, next EV I get 100mile range on $1.10 of electricity. Cities generally pay less by about 1/2 of that for electric, not worth charging for in the next say 5 yrs. By then the law should be changed and enough EV's to make charging pay for it's equipment, labor, bookkeeping. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Michele Mician <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Charging Station Specs Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:23:33 -0400 >Hi Andrew, > >Will you also send me the catalog. Also, Does anyone have a >catalog of parking meter/charging stations. I want to send >this to my parking person at the City. > >Michele > >MICHELE MICIAN, MS >ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >yourgreencity.sarasotagov.com >941-365-2200 x. 6317 > > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >Andrew Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:06 PM >To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Charging Station Specs > >Hi Greg, > >Well, that is good news. >I hope your pro-active approach spreads. >We definitely need more charging areas around Florida. >I'm sure we will be mentioning the office building when we >mention the charging area; it helps to find the charging >area when you know what building it's at. > >The specs on charging stations can vary. >I'm partial to the old fashioned "RV Park" style of >charging station. I will email you a catalog to look >through. > >Best Regards, >R. Andrew Roddy >Public Relations Director >Florida Electric Auto Association > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg >Sims Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 8:19 PM >To: FLEAA Mailing List >Subject: [FLEAA] Charging Station Specs > >Does anyone have specs for a charging station. My office >building is going to set up a charging station in the >Sawgrass Mills area, and they asked for some specs. They >seem like they would be interested in making it a public >charging station and wanted the best set of specs. It will >be a special parking space in front of the building. They >are planning to run a special circuit and anything else >needed for a outdoor connections. > >Please let me know what you might think would be the best >option. Do you think FLEAA would be willing to give the >office building some press if they make it a public >station. > >Thanks > >Greg Sims > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > > >Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If >you do not want your e-mail address released in response to >a public-records request, do not send electronic mail to >this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in >writing. E-mail messages sent or received by City of >Sarasota officials and employees in connection with >official City business are public records subject to >disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] EFFORT TO SAVE USF VANS
Hi Jeremiah and All, - Original Message Follows - From: "Jeremiah Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EFFORT TO SAVE USF VANS Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 16:10:22 -0400 >I'm probably missing something here, but how could it be >more expensive to buy batteries for this then for a built >from scratch conversion? It needs I think 38 batts where as nice light EV commuters, kids to school, food, shopping, ect, could use just 12 batts each for a town car. We can use inexpensive forklift motors, make our own adapter/coupler/charger/controller for under $500. It could cost 1/2 what an ICE costs to run. If a buyer wants to upgrade electronics it's easily done. The Van is going to need things besides batteries and what's it going to cost to buy. Minimum I see is about $8k to buy, get it running. You'd probably need to buy both for spares as much custom things on it, costing more. It's OK if you have a use for it like what it's designed for, hauling a lot of people, things, but if not, it's a lot of money to sit, die again. An EV needs to match it's mission. For $6k in parts you'd have 2 small EV's worth probably $5k-8k each. But should the club even be in the buying EV business? Helping each other get their EV's on the road and as a teaching tool would work well I'd think. Then we wouldn't have to have a shop, raise money, ect. Conversions are easy, especially on small EV's. And I was told our goal is to do EV's so others could learn to do their own. On say a VW bug with all the parts you might be able to finish in a day or 2 with 6-10 people helping and all the parts ready, having an old fashion EV raising! Jerry Dycus Seems to me that at least the >conversion part of these vans would be complete, and only >components would have to be replaced. But for a new >conversion, the same components would still have to be >bought including all the rest that are still good on the >van, and the actual conversion would still have to be done. > I see merit to both sides, I just don't see how it could >be more money to replace a few of the components then to >buy all of them. Sounds kind of like they were rust >buckets, but that could be fixed too. Just my 2 cents. > >On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:54 AM, jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >> >> Hi Michael and All, >> >> But what would we have afterward, an >> expensive to run EV with little cash value. If you could >> put it in shuttle service somewhere, short distances, >> full load, it might earn it's keep daily, but battery >> costs/mile whether used or not will eat you up as will >> the charging bill/mile if you got it cheap/scrap price. >> Another is as a commuting van where it takes 8 people to >> work each day including the driver, 10-20 miles depending >> on what it's range it, back home afterward, it could pay >> it's way. Now if you could get a grant >> for the costs plus running costs and we could give it to >> a good org that can use it every day to lower their fuel >> costs and we could maintain it with the second one for >> backup parts, could work. But that should be in hand >> before buying them. For the same money we >> could build 2 lighter, more practical, eff, cost >> effective EV's, which would get used and be worth much >> more than we had in them. Civic's, VW's, MR2, ect or >> members EV's would be better EV's to build and be a >> better teaching aid to our members as it would be >> something more like they want to do. BTW >> The new Fed energy bill compromise has a $2500 credit >> for converting to an alt fueled engine but it hopefully >> won't get passed because it mostly corporate welfare. >> Hopefully they'll make a better bill with the conversion >>credit still in it. >> Jerry Dycus >> >> - Original Message Follows - >> From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: listserv@floridaeaa.org >> Subject: [FLEAA] EFFORT TO SAVE USF VANS >> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:54:51 -0400x>Lets preserve these >> vans and not let them go to the scrap >> >yard. Bill Young has suggested we get these vans >> >together and get them somewhere everyone can see them. >> >If anyone could contribute a small amount to buy these >> >vans from the current owners we could get them at a >> >decent price
Re: [FLEAA] EFFORT TO SAVE USF VANS
Hi Michael and All, But what would we have afterward, an expensive to run EV with little cash value. If you could put it in shuttle service somewhere, short distances, full load, it might earn it's keep daily, but battery costs/mile whether used or not will eat you up as will the charging bill/mile if you got it cheap/scrap price. Another is as a commuting van where it takes 8 people to work each day including the driver, 10-20 miles depending on what it's range it, back home afterward, it could pay it's way. Now if you could get a grant for the costs plus running costs and we could give it to a good org that can use it every day to lower their fuel costs and we could maintain it with the second one for backup parts, could work. But that should be in hand before buying them. For the same money we could build 2 lighter, more practical, eff, cost effective EV's, which would get used and be worth much more than we had in them. Civic's, VW's, MR2, ect or members EV's would be better EV's to build and be a better teaching aid to our members as it would be something more like they want to do. BTW The new Fed energy bill compromise has a $2500 credit for converting to an alt fueled engine but it hopefully won't get passed because it mostly corporate welfare. Hopefully they'll make a better bill with the conversion credit still in it. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: [FLEAA] EFFORT TO SAVE USF VANS Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:54:51 -0400x>Lets preserve these vans and not let them go to the scrap >yard. Bill Young has suggested we get these vans together >and get them somewhere everyone can see them. If anyone >could contribute a small amount to buy these vans from the >current owners we could get them at a decent price. If >everyone puts our money together we could save the vans and >at least restore the body of them. I would gladly donate >my time to getting them back on the road but if we could at >least get them out of the elements at least it is a step in >the right direction. > >There are places that have classic cars for show and sale. >What about a similar place dedicated to electric vehicles? > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Meet the Press
Hi Al and All, We really don't need better batteries though they would really help, we new low drag gliders so you don't need much battery, EV drive. Just switching to composite uni-bodies drops it's weight 50% which in turn drops the EV drive hp needed and the batts needed, ect, lowering real costs to much lower than ICE's. And yes the lowly GC batt can do this. That's why Lee Hart is doing the Sunrise 2 and I'm doing the Freedom EV to get superior performance at a reasonable cost. And there are several good Li batts out there, Kokam, A123, ect that don't need more research but orders!! I recently got in the Tampa Trib, St Pete Times letter to editor on just that and other EV points. The way I see it is in about 3-4 yrs li price will be competitive with lead so putting in a lead pack now for around a 100 mile projected range with 55-60% battery weight, then switch to Li when they get reasonable after the lead pack dies in 4-7 yrs. But with 100 mile range and a small gen I expect to not really need Li at all. I'd use the $150b on various RE which has for the last 2 yrs more added cap than oil, gas or coal!! Cars that get 100mpg which means in reality either EV's or plug in hybrids and subcars under 1500lbs, personal transport modules and roads for slow, light vehicles like mopeds, GC's, NEV's can get around town safely, homes that supply their own power, and charge their EV's all could easily be done, all in loans so it comes back to make more RE. What's amazing is why it hasn't happened yet!! But the sheeple are starting to notice they have no money so finally changing they behavior, voting in better people. Remember where there is a problem, there is opportunity!! Lot's of money to be made in EV's, Transport modules and RE. Fla just passed, Gov Crist signed Net Metering and many other good RE programs but can't seem to find out what they actually say, details yet. With the electric rates all around Fla going up 25-50% over the next couple yrs, there is money to be made. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: "Jeremiah Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Al Lococo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "FLEAA Mailing List" Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Meet the Press Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:58:46 -0400 >I do agree that we could use that 150 billion in better >ways, but I do think we need more research. If we get more >research on building better batteries, then each RAV4-EVS >wouldn't cost $50,000. > >On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 8:45 PM, Al Lococo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >> arvey, >> >> Here are Mr. Senator Obamas remarks on energy from meeet >>hte press today. >> My opinion we don't need 150 Billion in research. We >> need Renewable energy from solar, wind, geo thermal, and >>tidal. We need plugin cars now. >> With 150 billion, at a cost of $50,000 each, we could >> give away 3 million RAV4-EVs. >> > > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1
Hi Frank, Harvey and All, - Original Message Follows - From: Frank Bonilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: FLEAA Mailing List Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:16:50 -0700 (PDT) >Yeah , >I was thinking allong similar lines and that perhaps GM >should have crushed the Hummers and not the EV1 's . Frank >Nokomis, Fl That would have been to logical! If they had improved the EV-1 instead of crushing them they would have been leading instead of fuguring out how to keep from going bankrupt. > >--- On Wed, 7/23/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1 >To: listserv@floridaeaa.org >Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 9:18 AM > > > >Rebecca: >Very informative update. I'm so happy that these car makers >are focussing on EV's. I don't understand why Toyota >doesn't bring back the Rav 4 into the market again. We have >Rav 4 EV's that are still running fine. How long the >original battereies will last nobody seems to know. >Outside of the $99,000.00 convertable that's in production >now. I don't know of any production EV available for >purchase at a reasonable price today. I wish there was one >available, I'd but it in a heartbeat. >Please keep me on your mailing list, >Thanks again for the update. Why not an RAV4EV is by building an EV from scratch will cost them 1/2 as much. Why is building lighter means they need less battery, EV drive, thus much less cost. They are working on one called the X-1 under 2klbs battery dominated hybrid with a 660cc ice motor for distance. Of course anyone wanting a RAV 4 EV could convert their own for less than they are selling on Ebay with good li batts like Kokams. Not factory but same range, speed. Jerry Dycus > >Harvey Bennett[EMAIL PROTECTED] >FLEAA PR committee > > > > > >Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for >FanHouse Fantasy Football >today.___ >Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > >___ >Florida EAA mailing list >listserv@floridaeaa.org >http://www.floridaeaa.org > ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
