RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
It worked for ICQ :P From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 8:19 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 ZAM3D. http://www.erain.com/Products/ZAM3D/ Seems like its been in CTP forever... On 10/3/07, silky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: On 10/3/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > > > > Here's the catch22 and you can take a lesson learnt from Macromedia/Adobe on > this one. > > > > You could turn Blend into a basic version of Visual Studio, providing some > coding abilities etc. I think Intellisense is a brilliant idea and is > missing from Blend (*pokes Sam/Brian*) as that should be a realistic minimal > impact on roadmaps. > > > > Now if you were to head down the path of making Blend into a developer > centric tool, you run the risk of forking your target audience (losing a > chunk of your design audience.."oh blend..that's too hard for me.."). Flash > IDE was a classic case of this, as in reality it's more tailored towards the > "Designer / Interactive" market. Yet the more it grew in terms of coding > experience, the more designers started to get nervous..."what do you mean I > have to learn code..wtf, where was this in my original plan".. They kept it > pretty fluid though, by making the code "optional" in most cases as well > supporting ActionScript earlier generations. > > > > Expression Blend could suffer the same perception change if you head down > this path.. could being a vague word to insert. I consider Blend to be the > middle ground so part of me wants to do a lot of the coding basics inside it > whilst part of me doesn't want to impact the brand or reasons for its > existence, so what to do... listening to customers is probably a start. i do believe that the designer/coder seperation is a bit of a dream land anyway. but aside from that, i don't quite understand why *VISUAL* studio wouldn't be suited to 'designer' tasks. personally, however, i would prefer an open-ish format that other tools - professional tools - can export to. ie 3d tools exporting to xaml. i've seen this i think; i forget the name of the product now though. i myself, as a 'programmer', don't forsee ever using "blend". whether that means anything to the blend team is up for debate. > I'm so glad I'm not on the Blend team :P - that said, intellisense is so > needed though... watch what you wish for, you just may get it. > > > > > > -- > > Scott Barnes > (Rich Interactive Application Evangelist) > > Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | > Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 > > Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog<http://twitter.com/mossyblog> | MSN: [EMAIL > PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this > e-mail > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL > PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > On Behalf Of Stephen Price > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 6:47 PM > To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> > > Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > > > I often use Photoshop (CS3 at work, Elements at home) and have recently been > playing with Expression Design. (Really like Design for some things). It > really comes down to the right tool for the right job. Do we want a tool box > full of specialised tools, or a swiss army pocket knife? I'm for the box of > tools specific to what I do, and according to preference. > > > > > > That said, Photoshop, something I'd class as a design tool way more than a > developer tool has dockable windows. I'm pretty sure they could handle it if > it were in Blend. I suspect someone can't let go of the scalable work space. > (or make it work with docking windows) > > > (For those struggling with the Blend UI layout, I've found that reducing the > Workspace zoom under Tools > Options > Workspace gives you a little more > elbow room.) > > > > cheers, > > > Stephen > > > > On 10/3/07, Joseph Cooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > > > I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base, > however having played around with integrating with Visual Studio I'm > inclined to think this is not such a great idea. Compare the GUI WPF > designer in Blend to the GUI WPF designer
Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
ZAM3D. http://www.erain.com/Products/ZAM3D/ Seems like its been in CTP forever... On 10/3/07, silky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 10/3/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's the catch22 and you can take a lesson learnt from > Macromedia/Adobe on > > this one. > > > > > > > > You could turn Blend into a basic version of Visual Studio, providing > some > > coding abilities etc. I think Intellisense is a brilliant idea and is > > missing from Blend (*pokes Sam/Brian*) as that should be a realistic > minimal > > impact on roadmaps. > > > > > > > > Now if you were to head down the path of making Blend into a developer > > centric tool, you run the risk of forking your target audience (losing a > > chunk of your design audience.."oh blend..that's too hard for me.."). > Flash > > IDE was a classic case of this, as in reality it's more tailored towards > the > > "Designer / Interactive" market. Yet the more it grew in terms of coding > > experience, the more designers started to get nervous..."what do you > mean I > > have to learn code..wtf, where was this in my original plan".. They kept > it > > pretty fluid though, by making the code "optional" in most cases as well > > supporting ActionScript earlier generations. > > > > > > > > Expression Blend could suffer the same perception change if you head > down > > this path.. could being a vague word to insert. I consider Blend to be > the > > middle ground so part of me wants to do a lot of the coding basics > inside it > > whilst part of me doesn't want to impact the brand or reasons for its > > existence, so what to do... > > listening to customers is probably a start. > > i do believe that the designer/coder seperation is a bit of a dream > land anyway. but aside from that, i don't quite understand why > *VISUAL* studio wouldn't be suited to 'designer' tasks. > > personally, however, i would prefer an open-ish format that other > tools - professional tools - can export to. ie 3d tools exporting to > xaml. i've seen this i think; i forget the name of the product now > though. > > i myself, as a 'programmer', don't forsee ever using "blend". whether > that means anything to the blend team is up for debate. > > > > I'm so glad I'm not on the Blend team :P – that said, intellisense is so > > needed though... watch what you wish for, you just may get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott Barnes > > (Rich Interactive Application Evangelist) > > > > Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | > > Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 > > > > Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing > this > > e-mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Stephen Price > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 6:47 PM > > To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com > > > > Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > I often use Photoshop (CS3 at work, Elements at home) and have recently > been > > playing with Expression Design. (Really like Design for some things). It > > really comes down to the right tool for the right job. Do we want a tool > box > > full of specialised tools, or a swiss army pocket knife? I'm for the box > of > > tools specific to what I do, and according to preference. > > > > > > > > > > > > That said, Photoshop, something I'd class as a design tool way more than > a > > developer tool has dockable windows. I'm pretty sure they could handle > it if > > it were in Blend. I suspect someone can't let go of the scalable work > space. > > (or make it work with docking windows) > > > > > > (For those struggling with the Blend UI layout, I've found that reducing > the > > Workspace zoom under Tools > Options > Workspace gives you a little more > > elbow room.) > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > Stephen > > > > > > > > On 10/3/07, Joseph Cooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base, > > howev
Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
On 10/3/07, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Here's the catch22 and you can take a lesson learnt from Macromedia/Adobe on > this one. > > > > You could turn Blend into a basic version of Visual Studio, providing some > coding abilities etc. I think Intellisense is a brilliant idea and is > missing from Blend (*pokes Sam/Brian*) as that should be a realistic minimal > impact on roadmaps. > > > > Now if you were to head down the path of making Blend into a developer > centric tool, you run the risk of forking your target audience (losing a > chunk of your design audience.."oh blend..that's too hard for me.."). Flash > IDE was a classic case of this, as in reality it's more tailored towards the > "Designer / Interactive" market. Yet the more it grew in terms of coding > experience, the more designers started to get nervous..."what do you mean I > have to learn code..wtf, where was this in my original plan".. They kept it > pretty fluid though, by making the code "optional" in most cases as well > supporting ActionScript earlier generations. > > > > Expression Blend could suffer the same perception change if you head down > this path.. could being a vague word to insert. I consider Blend to be the > middle ground so part of me wants to do a lot of the coding basics inside it > whilst part of me doesn't want to impact the brand or reasons for its > existence, so what to do... listening to customers is probably a start. i do believe that the designer/coder seperation is a bit of a dream land anyway. but aside from that, i don't quite understand why *VISUAL* studio wouldn't be suited to 'designer' tasks. personally, however, i would prefer an open-ish format that other tools - professional tools - can export to. ie 3d tools exporting to xaml. i've seen this i think; i forget the name of the product now though. i myself, as a 'programmer', don't forsee ever using "blend". whether that means anything to the blend team is up for debate. > I'm so glad I'm not on the Blend team :P – that said, intellisense is so > needed though... watch what you wish for, you just may get it. > > > > > > -- > > Scott Barnes > (Rich Interactive Application Evangelist) > > Microsoft Pty | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | > Office: 7-3218-7030 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 > > Twitter: twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this > e-mail > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Stephen Price > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 6:47 PM > To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com > > Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > > > I often use Photoshop (CS3 at work, Elements at home) and have recently been > playing with Expression Design. (Really like Design for some things). It > really comes down to the right tool for the right job. Do we want a tool box > full of specialised tools, or a swiss army pocket knife? I'm for the box of > tools specific to what I do, and according to preference. > > > > > > That said, Photoshop, something I'd class as a design tool way more than a > developer tool has dockable windows. I'm pretty sure they could handle it if > it were in Blend. I suspect someone can't let go of the scalable work space. > (or make it work with docking windows) > > > (For those struggling with the Blend UI layout, I've found that reducing the > Workspace zoom under Tools > Options > Workspace gives you a little more > elbow room.) > > > > cheers, > > > Stephen > > > > On 10/3/07, Joseph Cooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base, > however having played around with integrating with Visual Studio I'm > inclined to think this is not such a great idea. Compare the GUI WPF > designer in Blend to the GUI WPF designer in VS 2008 – one of them is a > good, working product, the other one is hosted in visual studio. There could > be a whole bunch of resourcing and schedule reasons why the cider designer > is so painfully bad, but maybe the cost of integrating with VS is part of > the reason. The blend team seem to have delivered a fairly stable, credible > V1 product and continue to do good things with regular CTPs of V2. I'll take > non-integrated but working, existing software and take the ALT+TAB hit once > in a while. > > > > Joseph > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTE
Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I often use Photoshop (CS3 at work, Elements at home) and have recently been playing with Expression Design. (Really like Design for some things). It really comes down to the right tool for the right job. Do we want a tool box full of specialised tools, or a swiss army pocket knife? I'm for the box of tools specific to what I do, and according to preference. That said, Photoshop, something I'd class as a design tool way more than a developer tool has dockable windows. I'm pretty sure they could handle it if it were in Blend. I suspect someone can't let go of the scalable work space. (or make it work with docking windows) (For those struggling with the Blend UI layout, I've found that reducing the Workspace zoom under Tools > Options > Workspace gives you a little more elbow room.) cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Joseph Cooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base, > however having played around with integrating with Visual Studio I'm > inclined to think this is not such a great idea. Compare the GUI WPF > designer in Blend to the GUI WPF designer in VS 2008 – one of them is a > good, working product, the other one is hosted in visual studio. There could > be a whole bunch of resourcing and schedule reasons why the cider designer > is so painfully bad, but maybe the cost of integrating with VS is part of > the reason. The blend team seem to have delivered a fairly stable, credible > V1 product and continue to do good things with regular CTPs of V2. I'll take > non-integrated but working, existing software and take the ALT+TAB hit once > in a while. > > > > Joseph > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Charles Sterling > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2007 2:07 PM > *To:* listserver@ozSilverlight.com > *Cc:* Brian Pepin > *Subject:* RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > > > I am not going to touch the topic of "Do designers do things so > differently that have to have need a different shell/operating system etc"…. > > > > But from what I understand Visual Studio is not the easiest Shell in the > world to extend/ integrate with and Blend is the first client to use a new > extensible shell created at Microsoft > > Where are we going with it? Who else is going to use it? –No idea. > > > > > > What is my preference? One shell/one paradigm and simply additional > functionality based on additional roles/tasks. > > > > Joseph asked the rhetorical question: > > *"Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator?"* > > If it gave me all the functionality in the way I wanted to use it I don't > think I would care if it was forked off of notepad > > > > Which of course begs the same question for other business in Microsoft – > Like why doesn't Office have: file new > Spreadsheet or Document or Email > or Presentation…. > > Or better yet, alter the experience based on what I am trying to do i.e. > if I am writing a letter and added a table change the experience to that of > a spreadsheet. ( I believe some smart company referred to this as being > "document centric" ) > > (Shane could probably tell me why I really don't want this) > > > > -So I guess I am siding with Nick in principle > > > > -Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Nick Randolph > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:54 PM > *To:* listserver@ozSilverlight.com > *Subject:* RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > You mean idioms such as not being able to dock windows like in > Expression? The thing about VS is that it can be skinned to look/work just > as the Expression tools work today and yet still giving you the full > platform capabilities of VS. It's not about trying to get designers to work > in a dev tool – VS has been extended to be much more than a simple dev tool, > as illustrated by SSMS (which is based on the same shell). I understand > that designers work in a different way and I'm not asking them too. I just > find it frustrating that MS has gone down the path of releasing a tool that > is missing basic "platform" features such as window docking etc because they > wanted to appeal to a different market and a team didn't understand the > direction that VS was going. > > > > Nick Randolph > > M:+61 412 413 425 > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Cooney > *Sent:
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I think in an ideal world blend and VS could share the same code-base, however having played around with integrating with Visual Studio I'm inclined to think this is not such a great idea. Compare the GUI WPF designer in Blend to the GUI WPF designer in VS 2008 - one of them is a good, working product, the other one is hosted in visual studio. There could be a whole bunch of resourcing and schedule reasons why the cider designer is so painfully bad, but maybe the cost of integrating with VS is part of the reason. The blend team seem to have delivered a fairly stable, credible V1 product and continue to do good things with regular CTPs of V2. I'll take non-integrated but working, existing software and take the ALT+TAB hit once in a while. Joseph From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Sterling Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 2:07 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Cc: Brian Pepin Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I am not going to touch the topic of "Do designers do things so differently that have to have need a different shell/operating system etc".. But from what I understand Visual Studio is not the easiest Shell in the world to extend/ integrate with and Blend is the first client to use a new extensible shell created at Microsoft Where are we going with it? Who else is going to use it? -No idea. What is my preference? One shell/one paradigm and simply additional functionality based on additional roles/tasks. Joseph asked the rhetorical question: "Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator?" If it gave me all the functionality in the way I wanted to use it I don't think I would care if it was forked off of notepad Which of course begs the same question for other business in Microsoft - Like why doesn't Office have: file new > Spreadsheet or Document or Email or Presentation.. Or better yet, alter the experience based on what I am trying to do i.e. if I am writing a letter and added a table change the experience to that of a spreadsheet. ( I believe some smart company referred to this as being "document centric" ) (Shane could probably tell me why I really don't want this) -So I guess I am siding with Nick in principle -Chuck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:54 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 You mean idioms such as not being able to dock windows like in Expression? The thing about VS is that it can be skinned to look/work just as the Expression tools work today and yet still giving you the full platform capabilities of VS. It's not about trying to get designers to work in a dev tool - VS has been extended to be much more than a simple dev tool, as illustrated by SSMS (which is based on the same shell). I understand that designers work in a different way and I'm not asking them too. I just find it frustrating that MS has gone down the path of releasing a tool that is missing basic "platform" features such as window docking etc because they wanted to appeal to a different market and a team didn't understand the direction that VS was going. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:50 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't agree Nick. I think designers are probably used to lots of different idioms and behaviour in their applications that are different to Visual Studio. By making blend a SKU of VS you're asking those people to conform to the developer way of thinking (or not use the product). Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator? Joseph From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:13 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don't agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose - to the point where you could almost get the same "black" look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I am not going to touch the topic of "Do designers do things so differently that have to have need a different shell/operating system etc" But from what I understand Visual Studio is not the easiest Shell in the world to extend/ integrate with and Blend is the first client to use a new extensible shell created at Microsoft Where are we going with it? Who else is going to use it? -No idea. What is my preference? One shell/one paradigm and simply additional functionality based on additional roles/tasks. Joseph asked the rhetorical question: "Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator?" If it gave me all the functionality in the way I wanted to use it I don't think I would care if it was forked off of notepad Which of course begs the same question for other business in Microsoft - Like why doesn't Office have: file new > Spreadsheet or Document or Email or Presentation Or better yet, alter the experience based on what I am trying to do i.e. if I am writing a letter and added a table change the experience to that of a spreadsheet. ( I believe some smart company referred to this as being "document centric" ) (Shane could probably tell me why I really don't want this) -So I guess I am siding with Nick in principle -Chuck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:54 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 You mean idioms such as not being able to dock windows like in Expression? The thing about VS is that it can be skinned to look/work just as the Expression tools work today and yet still giving you the full platform capabilities of VS. It's not about trying to get designers to work in a dev tool - VS has been extended to be much more than a simple dev tool, as illustrated by SSMS (which is based on the same shell). I understand that designers work in a different way and I'm not asking them too. I just find it frustrating that MS has gone down the path of releasing a tool that is missing basic "platform" features such as window docking etc because they wanted to appeal to a different market and a team didn't understand the direction that VS was going. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:50 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't agree Nick. I think designers are probably used to lots of different idioms and behaviour in their applications that are different to Visual Studio. By making blend a SKU of VS you're asking those people to conform to the developer way of thinking (or not use the product). Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator? Joseph From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:13 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don't agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose - to the point where you could almost get the same "black" look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough 'control surface' (as we say in the trade - i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just th
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
You mean idioms such as not being able to dock windows like in Expression? The thing about VS is that it can be skinned to look/work just as the Expression tools work today and yet still giving you the full platform capabilities of VS. It's not about trying to get designers to work in a dev tool - VS has been extended to be much more than a simple dev tool, as illustrated by SSMS (which is based on the same shell). I understand that designers work in a different way and I'm not asking them too. I just find it frustrating that MS has gone down the path of releasing a tool that is missing basic "platform" features such as window docking etc because they wanted to appeal to a different market and a team didn't understand the direction that VS was going. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:50 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't agree Nick. I think designers are probably used to lots of different idioms and behaviour in their applications that are different to Visual Studio. By making blend a SKU of VS you're asking those people to conform to the developer way of thinking (or not use the product). Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator? Joseph From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:13 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don't agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose - to the point where you could almost get the same "black" look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough 'control surface' (as we say in the trade - i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I don't agree Nick. I think designers are probably used to lots of different idioms and behaviour in their applications that are different to Visual Studio. By making blend a SKU of VS you're asking those people to conform to the developer way of thinking (or not use the product). Would you like an IDE that was forked off adobe illustrator? Joseph From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:13 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don't agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose - to the point where you could almost get the same "black" look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough 'control surface' (as we say in the trade - i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S _ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: <http://www.readify.net/> www.readify.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I don't think they necessarily should to be merged into a single product. They are after all two very different things... I'm with Shane on this one. Sharing some of the necessary features is what I think is needed. Not everyone (especially designers) will want Visual Studio... just to get Blend features. An optional integration could be an option, but as it has been mentioned already that probably won't happen for a while if at all. I must say that I don't like paying for 2 products though. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:25:14 +1000Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Yeah I agree with Nick on this one. Perhaps its the developer commonality though. VS certainly feels more comfy to me. I find blend a little bizarre in the way some things are done, although I am sure my ways are themselves considered a little bizarre ;-) - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:12 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don’t agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose – to the point where you could almost get the same “black” look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane MorrisSent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more ‘leaking’ of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough ‘control surface’ (as we say in the trade – i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul GlavichSent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get fre
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Yeah I agree with Nick on this one. Perhaps its the developer commonality though. VS certainly feels more comfy to me. I find blend a little bizarre in the way some things are done, although I am sure my ways are themselves considered a little bizarre ;-) - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 12:12 PM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Shane As a long time user of VS I don’t agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose – to the point where you could almost get the same “black” look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more ‘leaking’ of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough ‘control surface’ (as we say in the trade – i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 200
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Shane As a long time user of VS I don't agree. I think that Expression should just represent another sku of Visual Studio. The way that the VS shell has evolved over time has been specifically designed for this purpose - to the point where you could almost get the same "black" look as the current Expression tools while still having it based on the VS shell. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:05 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough 'control surface' (as we say in the trade - i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I too think we can expect more and more 'leaking' of features between VS and Expression. But I hope the products do not end up merging. Speaking as a user interface designer, it would be very hard to mash together all the features of Blend and the many, many features of VS along with the two very different UI styles. Not enough 'control surface' (as we say in the trade - i.e. realestate) to accommodate both in the one app, IMO. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:44 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I think there's a procedure you can have done that takes care of that... :) Lobotomy anyone? Now you just have to figure out which I was insulting. Designer or Developer. :p On 10/3/07, Bec Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts > when I try to use it. :S > > > -- > Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com > Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, > but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not > having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it > seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my > projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and > Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. > > I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are > not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a > VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not > designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the > Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind > them. > > cheers, > Stephen > > On 10/3/07, *Damian Edwards* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or > Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree > with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the > Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your > Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. > Regards, > *Damian Edwards > *Readify | Senior Developer > > M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 > *To:* listserver@ozsilverlight.com > *Subject:* RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > > > Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... > > Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? > Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? > > It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess > (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the > graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect > Intellisense to be available in Blend. > -- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 > Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and > then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll > leave that to others... > > In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to > use Blend 1? > > Shane > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM > *To:* listserver@ozsilverlight.com > *Subject: *[OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend > 1? > > -- > Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, > LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > > -- > Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/clk;114014868;17770752;i?http://www.jobsjobsjobs.com.au&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT> > --- > Oz
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I think the reality is that a majority of development in Silverlight will be done by devs and so will necessitate a combination of both (eg. create in blend, modify is VS, go back and do an anim in blend, go back and modify in VS). I find myself doing just that all the time, and again, I think that situation will be the majority. In some uber cool dev shops, the designer types will use blend only, and perform a "dismount" of the design onto the devs who will happily code away, culminating in a visual feast of an application, I just think that it will be a small subset of users and Microsoft working towards that ideal is simply delaying the inevitable. Having said that, I dont see the 2 merging in any short timeframe so thats the way it will be I guess. I think we will see some features from both creep their way in until some happy joining of the two and in a way, it will probably result in a better overall product, just a little longer in timeframe than I would hope. - Paul Glavich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 11:28 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> -
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I try to wear both hats too... but the designer half of my brain hurts when I try to use it. :S Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:40:10 +0800From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian EdwardsReadify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA! --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net _ NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. Find thousands of jobs online now! http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B114014868%3B17770752%3Bi%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejobsjobsjobs%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Yes! You've hit the nail on the head Shane. The reason I wanted a Silverlight project template was for the Silverlight XAML support. I would still have preferred the new stuff to go into a Blend 1 service pack or something, rather than a whole new Blend 2 product. ;-) Go Intellisense! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:52:41 +0800Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Yes, Blend would be better with Intellisense... The main advantage of Blend 2 for Silverlight is that it knows what is valid Silverlight XAML vs valid WPF XAML, and it can make valid Silverlight 1.0 and 1.1 projects from scratch. If you’re doing SL I’d just grab the Blend 2 preview. You won’t regret it. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen PriceSent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:40 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian EdwardsReadify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA! --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the lis
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I agree with Stephen re the integration of Expression features into VS - but hey Expression was built on a different shell so there is virtually no hope of that happening! Again it seems to be one MS hand not talking to the other. Nick Randolph M:+61 412 413 425 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Morris Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 8:53 AM To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Yes, Blend would be better with Intellisense... The main advantage of Blend 2 for Silverlight is that it knows what is valid Silverlight XAML vs valid WPF XAML, and it can make valid Silverlight 1.0 and 1.1 projects from scratch. If you're doing SL I'd just grab the Blend 2 preview. You won't regret it. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:40 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com<http://mailenable.com/> - List managed by www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.c
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Yes, Blend would be better with Intellisense... The main advantage of Blend 2 for Silverlight is that it knows what is valid Silverlight XAML vs valid WPF XAML, and it can make valid Silverlight 1.0 and 1.1 projects from scratch. If you're doing SL I'd just grab the Blend 2 preview. You won't regret it. Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 10:40 AM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozSilverlight.com> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com<mailto:listserver@ozsilverlight.com> Subject: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com<http://mailenable.com/> - List managed by www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com<http://mailenable.com/> - List managed by www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B114014868%3B17770752%3Bi%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejobsjobsjobs%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT%0d%0a> ---
Re: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
I don't like that. I know the Expression suit is targeted at designers, but I'm a developer who is trying to use Blend for the visual stuff. Not having Intellisense discourages me from using it. One nice thing though it seems the latest Preview of Blend 2 (Sept) can now render the XAML in my projects again. Not sure why but was getting render errors both in Cider and Blend. Something in there it didn't like but now its OK again. I can see why there is tool separation but Designers and Developers are not always separated. I wear both hats so why can't my software? There is a VS for developers, database guys, testers, and architechs... Why not designers? I think all of the Expression suite could be integrated into the Visual studio suite. One app to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. cheers, Stephen On 10/3/07, Damian Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or > Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree > with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the > Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your > Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. > > Regards, > > *Damian Edwards > *Readify | Senior Developer > > M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | C: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 > *To:* listserver@ozsilverlight.com > *Subject:* RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... > > Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? > Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? > > It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess > (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the > graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect > Intellisense to be available in Blend. > ---------- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 > Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and > then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll > leave that to others... > > > > In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to > use Blend 1? > > > > Shane > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM > *To:* listserver@ozsilverlight.com > *Subject:* [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 > > > > Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend > 1? > > -- > > Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, > LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> > > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > > > -- > > Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B114014868%3B17770752%3Bi%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejobsjobsjobs%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT%0d%0a> > > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > --- > OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to > the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. > Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net > --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Blend 2 still doesn't have any intellisense of any sort, XAML or Javascript. That is strictly the domain of Visual Studio. Not sure I agree with that idea but that's the way it is. I guess you could use one of the Express editions of Visual Studio to get free IntelliSense for your Silverlight projects, but basically Blend is for designing only, no code. Regards, Damian Edwards Readify | Senior Developer M: 0448 545 868 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | C: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | W: www.readify.net<http://www.readify.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2007 08:26 To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserver@ozSilverlight.com Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800 Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net Find thousands of jobs online now! NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B114014868%3B17770752%3Bi%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejobsjobsjobs%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT%0d%0a> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Well I have the full license for Blend 1, so... Can you possibly tell me what cool features Blend 2 preview has? Javascript Intellisense for Silverlight 1.0 projects? It may be argued that the coding should be left to Visual Studio I guess (and Orcas does have the Intellisense as you know), but a lot of the graphical effects need some sort of code anyway, and so I'd expect Intellisense to be available in Blend. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:05:51 +0800Subject: RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it’s not for me to make claims about VS so I’ll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec CarterSent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA! --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject.Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net _ NEW jobsjobsjobs.com.au. Find thousands of jobs online now! http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B114014868%3B17770752%3Bi%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejobsjobsjobs%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=762242361&_r=Hotmail_email_tagline_July07&_m=EXT --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
RE: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Not that I know of. You could possibly make the project first in VS and then open it in Blend1? But it's not for me to make claims about VS so I'll leave that to others... In any case Blend 2 preview is free, so do you have a particular need to use Blend 1? Shane From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bec Carter Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:28 PM To: listserver@ozsilverlight.com Subject: [OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1 Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? Enter here. Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA!<http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse%0d%0a> --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
[OzSilverlight] Expression Blend 1
Is there a Silverlight 1.0 project template available for Expression Blend 1? _ Win tix to see Crowded House live at the Greek Theatre, LA! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=800&referral=windowslivehotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/crowdedhouse --- OzSilverlight.com - to unsubscribe from this list, send a message back to the list with 'unsubscribe' as the subject. Powered by mailenable.com - List managed by www.readify.net
