Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Ola Liljedahl]

On 16 May 2016 at 11:52, Anders Roxell <anders.rox...@linaro.org> wrote:

> On 2016-05-16 08:27, Savolainen, Petri (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: lng-odp [mailto:lng-odp-boun...@lists.linaro.org] On Behalf Of
> Bill Fischofer
> > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:55 AM
> > To: Brian Brooks <brian.bro...@linaro.org>
> > Cc: lng-odp <lng-odp@lists.linaro.org>
> > Subject: Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, May 13, 2016, Brian Brooks <brian.bro...@linaro.org brian.bro...@linaro.org>> wrote:
> > On 05/13 10:07:44, Bill Fischofer wrote:
> > > I don't think we need to impose those sort of restrictions. I
> personally
> > > use sylpheed for patches and GMail for everything else and they have no
> > > problem sorting things out.
> > >
> > > The ODP mailing list covers both discussions as well as patches, and
> HTML
> > > is useful for the former. The onus should be on those who have problems
> > > with this to upgrade their tools rather than sending everyone else
> back to
> > > the 1980s.
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mike Holmes 
> > > <mike.hol...@linaro.org<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > All,
> > > >
> > > > A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> > > > outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some
> folks to
> > > > process patches.
> > > >
> > > > I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all
> my
> > > > patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work
> fine
> > > > on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One
> up
> > > > side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches
> and fax
> > > > services from the list :)
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I
> am
> > > > grumpy.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> >
> > +1 for plain text
> >
> > I think this topic is more about simplicity and best practices rather
> than
> > anything else.
> >
> > Here is an example of why HTML doesn't work well with archives:
> > https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/lng-odp/2016-May/023134.html
> > That link displays perfectly fine for me.  What problem do you see?
> >
> > Did you read it? It’s a mixture of paragraphs from two writers, without
> any indication who is writing what. The list archive drops out HTML
> decoration and at least in some cases will not convert (various blue or
> grey lines, or indentations) into ‘>’.
> >
> > As Brian highlights, it’s about simplicity. With one rule (no HTML) we
> can uniform output of all mail clients and their fonts/indentations/other
> settings, so that the list is clean and clear to read (both directly and
> from the archives) and reply (no need to struggle with mismatching styles
> inherited from the senders HTML settings, etc).
> >
> > +1 for plain text
>
> I agree with Brian and Petri.
>
There shouldn't be any other option than plain text!
>
Is that an option then that I can choose not to choose?


> That works for discussions as well. "You can mail all those funny mails
> to your friends." =)
>
But can you send all those funny emails to your pets? I mean, if you don't
have friends?


>
> Just a reflection, since we talking about plain text vs. html... Is
> there someone that can follow this thread easily? =)
>
> We have another problem with this thread as well, people top-post,
> which is insane! =)
>
How does forbidding HTML prevent top-posting? Perhaps we should filter out
top-posts as well? And why stop at that?


>
> Cheers,
> Anders
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>
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Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Anders Roxell]

On 2016-05-16 08:27, Savolainen, Petri (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote:
> 
> 
> From: lng-odp [mailto:lng-odp-boun...@lists.linaro.org] On Behalf Of Bill 
> Fischofer
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:55 AM
> To: Brian Brooks <brian.bro...@linaro.org>
> Cc: lng-odp <lng-odp@lists.linaro.org>
> Subject: Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, May 13, 2016, Brian Brooks 
> <brian.bro...@linaro.org<mailto:brian.bro...@linaro.org>> wrote:
> On 05/13 10:07:44, Bill Fischofer wrote:
> > I don't think we need to impose those sort of restrictions. I personally
> > use sylpheed for patches and GMail for everything else and they have no
> > problem sorting things out.
> >
> > The ODP mailing list covers both discussions as well as patches, and HTML
> > is useful for the former. The onus should be on those who have problems
> > with this to upgrade their tools rather than sending everyone else back to
> > the 1980s.
> >
> > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mike Holmes 
> > <mike.hol...@linaro.org<javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> > > outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some folks to
> > > process patches.
> > >
> > > I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all my
> > > patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work fine
> > > on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
> > >
> > > Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One up
> > > side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches and 
> > > fax
> > > services from the list :)
> > >
> > > On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I am
> > > grumpy.
> > >
> > > Mike
> 
> +1 for plain text
> 
> I think this topic is more about simplicity and best practices rather than
> anything else.
> 
> Here is an example of why HTML doesn't work well with archives:
> https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/lng-odp/2016-May/023134.html
> That link displays perfectly fine for me.  What problem do you see?
> 
> Did you read it? It’s a mixture of paragraphs from two writers, without any 
> indication who is writing what. The list archive drops out HTML decoration 
> and at least in some cases will not convert (various blue or grey lines, or 
> indentations) into ‘>’.
> 
> As Brian highlights, it’s about simplicity. With one rule (no HTML) we can 
> uniform output of all mail clients and their fonts/indentations/other 
> settings, so that the list is clean and clear to read (both directly and from 
> the archives) and reply (no need to struggle with mismatching styles 
> inherited from the senders HTML settings, etc).
> 
> +1 for plain text

I agree with Brian and Petri.
There shouldn't be any other option than plain text!
That works for discussions as well. "You can mail all those funny mails
to your friends." =)

Just a reflection, since we talking about plain text vs. html... Is
there someone that can follow this thread easily? =)

We have another problem with this thread as well, people top-post,
which is insane! =)

Cheers,
Anders
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Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Elo, Matias (Nokia - FI/Espoo)]

+1 for the mandatory plain text as well. At least for us replacing Outlook as 
email client is not really an option and the cursed blue line makes inline 
replies a pain.

-Matias

> -Original Message-
> From: lng-odp [mailto:lng-odp-boun...@lists.linaro.org] On Behalf Of EXT 
> Zoltan
> Kiss
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 12:32 PM
> To: Mike Holmes <mike.hol...@linaro.org>; lng-odp <lng-odp@lists.linaro.org>
> Subject: Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings
> 
> +1 for mandatory plain text. HTML mail is for newsletters, but as soon
> as you try to reply to a section of someone else's mail, it breaks down
> to chaos. My observation is that mail clients tend to handle it
> differently, and screwing up each other (and their users) in the process.
> And setting font color for each responses doesn't scale well, it's just
> a band-aid. (and kid themed band-aids could be actually pretty cool, so
> it's worse than band-aid)
> If we could enforce everyone using the same mail client, HTML would
> work, but that's not the case here.
> 
> On 13/05/16 15:57, Mike Holmes wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> > outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some folks
> > to process patches.
> >
> > I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all my
> > patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work
> > fine on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
> >
> > Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One up
> > side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches and
> > fax services from the list :)
> >
> > On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I am
> > grumpy.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> > Mike Holmes
> > Technical Manager - Linaro Networking Group
> > Linaro.org <http://www.linaro.org/>***│ *Open source software for ARM
> SoCs
> > "Work should be fun and collaborative, the rest follows"
> >
> > __
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > lng-odp mailing list
> > lng-odp@lists.linaro.org
> > https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/lng-odp
> >
> ___
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Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Savolainen, Petri (Nokia - FI/Espoo)]

From: lng-odp [mailto:lng-odp-boun...@lists.linaro.org] On Behalf Of Bill 
Fischofer
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:55 AM
To: Brian Brooks <brian.bro...@linaro.org>
Cc: lng-odp <lng-odp@lists.linaro.org>
Subject: Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings



On Friday, May 13, 2016, Brian Brooks 
<brian.bro...@linaro.org<mailto:brian.bro...@linaro.org>> wrote:
On 05/13 10:07:44, Bill Fischofer wrote:
> I don't think we need to impose those sort of restrictions. I personally
> use sylpheed for patches and GMail for everything else and they have no
> problem sorting things out.
>
> The ODP mailing list covers both discussions as well as patches, and HTML
> is useful for the former. The onus should be on those who have problems
> with this to upgrade their tools rather than sending everyone else back to
> the 1980s.
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mike Holmes 
> <mike.hol...@linaro.org<javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> > outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some folks to
> > process patches.
> >
> > I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all my
> > patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work fine
> > on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
> >
> > Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One up
> > side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches and fax
> > services from the list :)
> >
> > On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I am
> > grumpy.
> >
> > Mike

+1 for plain text

I think this topic is more about simplicity and best practices rather than
anything else.

Here is an example of why HTML doesn't work well with archives:
https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/lng-odp/2016-May/023134.html
That link displays perfectly fine for me.  What problem do you see?

Did you read it? It’s a mixture of paragraphs from two writers, without any 
indication who is writing what. The list archive drops out HTML decoration and 
at least in some cases will not convert (various blue or grey lines, or 
indentations) into ‘>’.

As Brian highlights, it’s about simplicity. With one rule (no HTML) we can 
uniform output of all mail clients and their fonts/indentations/other settings, 
so that the list is clean and clear to read (both directly and from the 
archives) and reply (no need to struggle with mismatching styles inherited from 
the senders HTML settings, etc).

+1 for plain text

-Petri

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Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Brian Brooks]

On 05/13 10:07:44, Bill Fischofer wrote:
> I don't think we need to impose those sort of restrictions. I personally
> use sylpheed for patches and GMail for everything else and they have no
> problem sorting things out.
> 
> The ODP mailing list covers both discussions as well as patches, and HTML
> is useful for the former. The onus should be on those who have problems
> with this to upgrade their tools rather than sending everyone else back to
> the 1980s.
> 
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mike Holmes  wrote:
> 
> > All,
> >
> > A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> > outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some folks to
> > process patches.
> >
> > I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all my
> > patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work fine
> > on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
> >
> > Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One up
> > side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches and fax
> > services from the list :)
> >
> > On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I am
> > grumpy.
> >
> > Mike

+1 for plain text

I think this topic is more about simplicity and best practices rather than
anything else.

Here is an example of why HTML doesn't work well with archives:
https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/lng-odp/2016-May/023134.html

Another useful link: http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-9
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Re: [lng-odp] lng-odp mailman settings

[Bill Fischofer]

I don't think we need to impose those sort of restrictions. I personally
use sylpheed for patches and GMail for everything else and they have no
problem sorting things out.

The ODP mailing list covers both discussions as well as patches, and HTML
is useful for the former. The onus should be on those who have problems
with this to upgrade their tools rather than sending everyone else back to
the 1980s.

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Mike Holmes  wrote:

> All,
>
> A topic that comes up occasionally that affects some mail tools like
> outlook is that html email on this list makes it harder for some folks to
> process patches.
>
> I use mutt specifically to avoid using a fancy email client for all my
> patch download/send work, it is powered by coal/steam and would work fine
> on a 1970 VAX but there you go.
>
> Anyway, does anyone object to having mailman reject HTML mail ? One up
> side is that I will not waste time blocking offers of cheap watches and fax
> services from the list :)
>
> On the other hand I will miss bullet lists and the color red when I am
> grumpy.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Holmes
> Technical Manager - Linaro Networking Group
> Linaro.org  *│ *Open source software for ARM SoCs
> "Work should be fun and collaborative, the rest follows"
>
>
>
> ___
> lng-odp mailing list
> lng-odp@lists.linaro.org
> https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/lng-odp
>
>
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