CiP: firstof.pm
Check the bugs section of (the yet unpublished) firstof.pm:
CALLING TYPE BUG
Rather than doing
use \"Fred", Foo, Wibble;
I'd like to do
use Fred Foo, Wibble;
Akin to what print does. But currently prototypes
(and import) won't allow me to express this.
And the section of 'perldoc -f use'
use Module VERSION LIST
If the VERSION argument is present between Module and LIST, then the
use will call the VERSION method in class Module with the given
version as an argument. The default VERSION method, inherited from
the UNIVERSAL class, croaks if the given version is larger than the
value of the variable $Module::VERSION.
My question is, how evil would it be to override VERSION to do something
that it was never, ever, designed for...
Later
Mark.
P.S.
http://2shortplanks.com/firstof/firstof.pm
http://2shortplanks.com/firstof/firstof.html
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: CiP: firstof.pm
>use \"Fred", Foo, Wibble;
>
>I'd like to do
>
>use Fred Foo, Wibble;
>
That should of course have read
use firstof \"Fred", Foo, Wibble;
I'd like to do
use firstof Fred Foo, Wibble;
But thanks to speedy list, I can tell you all so much faster ;-)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: The List
> "Perl 4" ne "Perl". "Perl 4" eq "rotten, flea-bitten camel carcass". "Perl
> 5" eq "Perl".
"Perl 5" ne "Perl", "Perl 5.6" eq "Perl"
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: The List
> im starting to like Java
Look! A Flying Pig!
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Re: freebsd admin skills - free space
> You'll all be delighted to know that we realised yesterday that the
> president[1] of the US is a distant cousin of mine.
Ha Ha!
[1] President Elect shirely>
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Donation..
> >
> > we didn't miss you
> >
>
> oh yes we did ...
>
He's behind you!
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Donation..
> I just think its a bit odd that out of XXX million people .. purely by
> chance, the current president is the brother of the one before last ...
s/brother/son/; # see, perl.
also, his brother is a governer isn't he...
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> Makefiles are no where near the norm on the Windows boxes where the
> bulk of ActiveState's users currently reside, learning how makefiles
> work (And I have to admit my experience in writing makefiles is very
> small) is yet another hurdle for people moving from Win to Nix.
> Although this might be a good way of making them get there feet wet ;)
>
More to the point, how do I get makefiles to work on a humble Win98 box?
First background: I'm at home (it's christmas) and I've just installed
Perl on my father's computer. It's a windows box - something I've never
attempted to do before. The activestate install was fine, once I
realised that downloading the installer and running it didn't actually
install perl (like IE or Netscape installers) but downloading the .mix
file and double clicking it did.
Now, I want to be able to use CPAN.pm to install modules, so I head off to
ftp://ftp.easynet.net/pub/simtelnet/gnu/djgpp/ and download all the GNU
stuff - tar, gzip, make - (and emacs, bash and the C compiler for good
measure.) But alas, when I try installing everything it works up until
you get to run make - and then it falls over.
CPAN.pm: Going to build D/DA/DAVECROSS/Symbol-Approx-Sub-1.60.tar.gz
Makefile:638: *** missing separator. Stop.
C:\djgpp\bin\make.exe -- NOT OK
Running make test
Oops, make had returned bad status
Running make install
Oops, make had returned bad status
Has anyone ever actually used CPAN.pm under windows? Ever got it to
work?
Just for the record, ppm (not unexpectedly) does this :
bash-2.04$ ppm install Symbol::Approx::Sub
Installing package 'Symbol-Approx-Sub'...
Error installing package 'Symbol-Approx-Sub': Could not locate a PPD file
for package Symbol-Approx-Sub
Nothing works on this Damn Tank. [1][2]
I want my Linux box back!
Later.
Mark
[1] Name the film that spawned this quote.
[2] Yes, I do know that Windows boxes are not tanks, that's Linux [3]
[3] Name the book.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> > Nothing works on this Damn Tank. [1][2]
> >
> > [1] Name the film that spawned this quote.
>
> guess - Stripes
Good, but wrong. Clue: Eddie Murphy and Dudly Moore.
Wistow would know, but he's snowboarding.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> In the beginning was the command line.
>
> Good book.
Correct. Full text is online (for free) at
http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html
Later.
Mark.
(off to do some really last minute christmas shopping)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> > > Hudson Hawk is probably a better movie.
> > hudson hawk is indeed a good movie (especially the scene were they throw
>
> I meant that HH was a better movie than Best Defence. The reason I
> said it is that Hudson Hawk is often considered one of the worst
> movies of the last couple of decades. I haven't actually seen it, but
> if it *is* worse than Best Defence, I'll be horrified.
Hudson Hawk is a classic movie which bombed for no good reason. Now you
mention it, I must buy a copy on DVD.
Incidentally, I once won 50ukp over if the fish verse came before the pig
verse in 'Would you like to swing on a star'
Best Defence was a truly awful movie, but one of the few movies that have
won a place in my heart just because of it's terribleness. Mr Murphy's
experiences with the Tank also mirror my every day experience with
computers.
"The WHAM is overheating. The WHAM is overheating! What the hell's a
WHAM?!?"
Must go wrap prezzys now.
Merry Christmas.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> I have an intense dislike of the new msi installer format. Its
> basically a way of making the download more awkward than before with
> no marked benefits. The benefits that you were supposed to get were
> that you can run most of the apps from the cd saving harddrive space,
> problem with this is when you *Shock Gasp Horror* use more than one of
> them at a time. For internet downloads MSI is just a stupid idea.
> (IMHO)
What really scared me is that when I downloaded and ran the installer it
restarted my computer, and then I tried to run perl and I found I hadn't
actually installed anything (even though it told me that it was complete)
> Active State still has it as Sub::Approx. Also when using ppm you need
> to use -'s rather than ::
> e.g.: ppm install Symbol-Approx-Sub (Which won't work due to no
> package.)
Why? For gawds sake, why! And if it is being that odd, why doesn't it at
least warn me when I ask for things with '::' in there.
How does an author go about setting up these wonderful ppm thingys. I
shall have to investigate.
Merry Christmas
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: happy christmas
> Happy Christmas to mongers everywhere.
Merry Christmas Greg (and one and all too - especially those that have
been --ing it on #london.pm)
Tell me, have you just spammed the million and a half mailing lists you're
on wishing everyone a Happy Christmas or should we feel especially lucky?
The advent calendar is over and done with. Suggestions for next year
welcome ;-)
Merry Christmas.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> Its your fault! You corrupted the innocent thread!
I think I'll take credit for the 'name the film' section that started it
all. Sorry.
> Pitch Black gets my vote, I fell asleep half way through and woke up
> just in time to see the end, and it was predictable enough that I
> could even contribute to the discussion in the pub about the film.
I'm sorry, but I thought Pitch Black rocked. Sure, it was predictable and
all had been done before, but so what? And Charlie's A. wasn't? Just
'cos I know the rollercoaster is going to make lots of turns and dips and
sudden drops doesn't make it any less entertaining.
I liked the whole 'fear of the dark' thing it was tapping into. It did
very odd things to my subconcious. Ended up having a very weird dream
that night where I was trapped in Asimov's 'Nightfall'. Odd.
Later.
Mark.
> Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
>--- Anon
s!^.*$!$@!
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> kung fu
> laughs
> cheesy moments
> chad - wasn't the chad good, say the chad was good![1]
> military helicopter
> humour directed at programmers
> great sound track
Piss takes of other movies that weren't blatant. The computer vault bit,
racing car standoff and the wire fight screens reminded me a bit of
Mission Impossible, Gone in 60 seconds and and the Matrix respectably.
Best use of a controversial prodigy track (smash my perl up)
> [1] chad is tom greene if i recall correctly, and i just discovered he
> has a series, does anyone know anything about this series?
It was on non-terrestrial TV about a year back IIRC. On MTV I think.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl::Flash
> So the answer to Dave's question is possible "Maybe not" :-(
No the answer to Dave's question is defiantly not.
Server load was at 30 when I last checked an hour ago.
This month we have been mainly learning
* NTK = good
* use.perl.org = good
* www.ora.com = good
* slashdot = bad.
Oh, that and that maybe handing 400,000 people (1999 figure, taken from
mod_perl guide) people a link to a cgi script with a 10MB memory footprint
is going to cause problems. Slashdotting beta code is not good. No siree.
Can I have another Mars Bar for clearing up Simon's mess when he goes off
on holiday *again* ? Can I? Please?
See Leon, I told you that unlimited bandwidth option was a good idea.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> > Best use of a controversial prodigy track (smash my perl up)
>
> Ooo, ooo, *have* to get that made into a t-shirt
but only if I name is right and spell it right (doh!)
On the front:
Smack My Perl Up
On the back:
use Inline;
Is this a joke about a joke about a joke?
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl Geek Code
> > > > > <http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=48718>
Just got round to reading this.
I suggest a quick extension
PLPM -Pound London PM (#london.pm)
PLPM+ I set up london.rhizomatic.net (acme/oznoid)
PLPM I am a #london.pm op
PLPM+++ I am a #london.pm regular
PLPM++I answer questions (correctly) on #london.pm
PLPM+ I occasionally visit #london.pm
PLPM I have been berated on #london.pm
PLPM- I am banned from #london.pm
PLPM--I hate IRC!
PLPM! I am a bot on PLPM...
Later.
Mark.
CO+ O++ M+(++) W++ R E+ S++ P+ MA++ E+ C++ D+ S++ X+ T+
WP-> PM++ n-- c-->- o++ uLB Eevo G- LC LJ PLPM G
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl Geek Code
Wait a mo...I'm not american...
HLPM -Hash London PM (#london.pm)
HLPM+ I set up london.rhizomatic.net (acme/oznoid)
HLPM I am a #london.pm op
HLPM+++ I am a #london.pm regular
HLPM++I answer questions (correctly) on #london.pm
HLPM+ I occasionally visit #london.pm
HLPM I have been berated on #london.pm
HLPM- I am banned from #london.pm
HLPM--I hate IRC!
HLPM! I am a bot on #london.pm...
Later.
Mark.
CO+ O++ M+(++) W++ R E+ S++ P+ MA++ E+ C++ D+ S++ X+ T+
WP-> PM++ n-- c-->- o++ uLB Eevo G- LC LJ HLPM G
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> > Simon
> > [who's looking forward to "Dude, where's my car" alot
>
> Frighteningly, this film was actually fairly funny.
Right, that's it. I'm going to have to compile a list of films that
are crap (or have been reviewed as crap) but are worth seeing, if only so
you get the in-jokes.
1. Bio-Dome.
2. Hackers.
3. Dest Defense.
4. Mission Impossible.
5. Empire Records # not crap, but badly reviewed
6. Hudson Hawk. # ditto
...and plenty more
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> >4. Mission Impossible.
>
> Only if you don't know or didn't like the original - or if you can have
> your brain rewired so that you don't remember it.
I think you're missing the point. M.I. is crap. Don't even get me
started on M.I.2.. But you probably want to have seen it so that
you can get references. For example, I've been rock climbing and
(sarcastically) been asked if I want someone to belay me, or to do it the
M.I. way (i.e. just hang on to the rope with the other person on the end
then wonder why it's so hard work and you can't stop them falling).
Or in reply to 'do you want to xlock that terminal before you go to
lunch?' I've had the response 'no, I'm going to set up a pressure sensitive
floor and noise sensitive alarm instead' back.
You get the idea...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> Where might be a good place to look for a copy of the film.
U.H.F.? Simon has a copy off of TV which we could dub to a spare VHS
tape.
There's alway's blackstar's video hunt
http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/700015733
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> Wheel of Fish
>From setting up astray.com/2shortplanks.com/london.rhizomatic.net:
Leon: What's on the box so far?
Me: Nothing. Absolutly Nothing.
(I must publish my quotes list somewhen)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> [And look, it says that people who bought it also bought Buffy. Is it
> hardwired or something?]
*everyone* who shops at blackstar buys buffy. Sad, but true.
Must watch Buffy. Has anyone got
a) the original film
b) episodes of the current series on BBC
on tape that they'd consider lending me...
Later.
Mark.
(see, I *knew* this thread would finally get back round to buffy again)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
RE: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
> I've got the first 11 episodes - which is about as far as the BBC have got
> on series 4. The second series 4 boxed set is on pre-order at everyone's
> favourite online video store (release date Feb 12th).
Cool. I haven't seen any of these as I've been too busy, and I'm
incapible of setting the video recorder[1]
> Sure. Shall I bring them along on Thursday?
That would be good. And I shall buy blank tapes and video stuff on sky
and then I shall catch up and all shall be good in the world.
> The information contained in this communication is
>
Is there anything you can do about that? Eeeeugh!
[1] Not that I'm incapible of working the interface, more that I'm
incapible of remembering to do it + find a blank tape.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl Geek Code
> > PLPM++I answer questions (correctly) on #london.pm
>
> But aren't most of the questions on #london.pm of the form "shall we
> go down the pub then?", to which there is a simple answer that's
> almost always correct...
I toyed with the idea of taking this out, but I wanted it to be the same
as for PP, so that someone who is PP+++ is basically the same as someone
who is HLPM++ or suchlike...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Apache Mods in use
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Dean S Wilson wrote:
> Mod_Perl is third on the list, beaten by FrontPage! Oh the shame ;)
>
> http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/man.200012/apachemods.html
I agree with Eric Eisenhart's comments on use.perl.org
(http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/01/2044233&mode=flat)
To quote:
I think there's one very significant contributing factor: you don't have
to install a module to use Perl and installing a module is the easiest way
to use PHP.
IOW: if you just want to allow people to use Perl and PHP, you only
install mod_php, not mod_perl. Once you've reached a point where
performance of Perl programs is an issue (or you want to do something more
interesting than a CGI) mod_perl is likely to get installed.
Later.
Mark.
P.S. Magnus, why don't you people do this kind of stuff?
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: one liner
> O'Reily's Perl/Tk book, discussion there of.
I bought it pre-Christmas and read it through. I do like the idea of
Tk. Seems a lot more simple that Java or GTK stuff to do. Sure, infinite
themeability is all very nice and all, but most of the time I just want to
do something really quickly.
The main problem I've faced when dealing with the Tk stuff is that I have
no idea how a good way to slam standard components together is. The book
is great at explaining how all the components work, how pack and the other
'layout managers' work and all, but never touches on the whole putting
everything together thing. Basically, what I need is a whole host of more
examples, with some kind of explanation of good and bad approaches, and why
you should use them, and more description of the pitfalls.
For example, discussion of how to cope with synchronising content between
windows. Of building up standard dialogs. How to ensure that your stuff
always lines up nicely and looks consistent. It's not that these subjects
aren't covered (for all the options are discussed) it's that there's no
guidelines or examples that I can learn from.
I guess what I'm looking for was more of a Programming Perl equivalent
book. Something that doesn't just explain how things work, but also
details techniques and practices that can greatly help you.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: one liner
> I have to say "where do I sign" on this one. I would really like to
> purchase this book :)
I printed out the mod_perl guide and it killed a tree. It took me an
afternoon to get it all printed out correctly (mostly because I was doing
it double sided, was to thick to work which way up the pages should go in
the printer, and it was just post-xmas) and bound.
It's about 12cm (That's like, 3inches ish) thick, including bindings.
No I leave it up to you to decide just how much I would have paid for
something to be produced for me and with just a few clicks of the mouse a
purchase to be made and it to arrive on my desks a few days later...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl commandments
> Thou shalt optimise for programmer time unless absolutely necessary,
Thou shalt optimise for programmer time unless O(x(n)) > O(y(n)) and n is
a suitably large value, where programmer time is both the time for the
current programming task and any future programming time that may be
expended maintaining this code.
Maybe that's not quite as snappy as the Brocard's. Hmm. It would be
easier if I could type omegas and stuff.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
JOB: Re: Hiring (not another one :) )
> While hiring seems to be the order of the day, just to let you know that
> AL Digital are hiring at the moment .. (permies only at the moment) ...
I can't believe that you didn't mention the really cool arcade machine in
reception[1] in the sales pitch. I think that most Perl Mongers would be
swayed by this as much as by anything else ;-)
Later
Mark.
(Happily Employed)
[1] Table top cabinet[2] with a PC running MAME inside.
[2] The kind you can rest a pint on.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl commandments
> what are O(x(n)) and O(y(n)), i'm not familiar with the x and y notation
Okay, I was making it up on the fly; - They're meant to be the functions
you're implementing. Hence O(x(n)) is running time of x on the data n,
and the same for y.
I think the point I was trying to make about future programming time was
much more important.
Pah...I'm going to read some comics and install FreeBSD now...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl commandments
> Err... Twice as fast is still twice as fast when it's running on a
> processor that's twice as fast as it would have been. I now can't
> remember where I read a fascinating piece on the value of more
> efficient algorithms as computers got faster. But it was worth
> reading. It was by that guy. Y'know, the guy who wrote that paper.
New Scientist article, IIRC.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Mailman in Perl (Re: the list is dead, long live the list)
> Said Andy Originally:
>
> > In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing
> > list manager.
>
> Said David H. Adler:
>
> > So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl? :)
>
I would like to kill this thread (and suggest using mailman rather than
anything else) as
* We're lazy (which is a virtue)
* TMTOWTDI (and one of them is even python)
Meanwhile if anyone else wants to develop anything else then I suggest
they go ahead while we continue to use mailman, and use the list to
discuss what their plans are. I think Andy's plans sound great but are
not about to happen RSN. I'd be more than willing to help pitch in
myself, just point in the direction of the code[1]
Right. Nuff said.
Mark[2].
[1] Once I've got some more free time. Which should be when new people
start at work.
[2] Who hasn't contributed to the box, so shouldn't really get a say, but
would be more than happy to do so)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Directory Structures!
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Shevek wrote:
> Am I right, now I look again, in thinking this can't be done as it
> requires that every value be simultaneously a list and a hash? Maybe if
> you tied things.
I've got a data stucture somewhere that is both a list and hash
somewhere. I wrote it as an exercise in tieing back when I was learning
how tie actually worked - hence it's not at all documented (bad mark) and
quite likely to have some bad perl in it.
Let's look for it...Ah there it isuploaded to:
http://2shortplanks.com/HashedArray/
That's probably got lots of errors in it. And there's probably something
better on the CPAN already. Pah.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Kung Foo and PIMB
Aaron said:
> [Where is the kung foo night?]
>
> anyone?
>
David Hodgkinson wrote:
> [PIMB T-Shirts]
>
> Are there any of these left?
>
New t-shirt idea :
"I know Perl!"
"Show me!"
On the back
use Wutan::Style;
Later.
Mark.
P.S. PINE may be silly, but the multiple reply option rocks.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Access Control Lists and Functions
> Dieing's probably a bad idea. The idea was for it to set an error stack
> so that even if you were using this module you would do stuff like
>
> my $do = new DO;
> $do->something();
> warn ACL::last_error()."\n" if ACL::error();
>
> which would print out something like "Access to DO::something denied for
> user x";
Why can't you do this with the standard die semantics?
eval
{
my $do = new DO;
$do->something();
}
if ($@)
{
warn $@;
}
(will work if both $@ is a string or a object that is overriden)
Of course if you were using Error.pm you could even use 'try' and 'catch'
as syntatic suger. See the Error perldoc.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: PIMB T-shirts
> discussion about legal aspects re using a camel smoking a joint
>on a t-shirt.
If these are private individuals selling t-shirts, may I suggest just
omitting the word 'perl' from anywhere on the t-shirt. Then O'Reilly's
trademark issues don't even come into effect (See page 'iv' of Programming
Perl for trademark discussion) and it's really, really got nothing to do
with them.
Quite frankly I'd rather not piss of O'Reilly. IMHO they're a nice
company that do nice things and the legality of the issue really has
nothing to do with it.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
> Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
> differing viewpoint.
Nice tags.
bss? Biological Sciences Staff? Hmmm.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: techmeet aftermath
> We have gained a set of whiteboard pens, and a pile of andy wardley's
> notes. Any takers?
I'll take the whiteboard marker pens back again. Realised as soon as I
got off the tube that I'd forgotten them. Too busy thinking about XML and
zen cooking (long story.) How I go about collecting these is another
story...if I don't manage to be even partially organised by the next
meeting can you bring 'em along?
Thanks.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund
> > [1] My first name is actually Christopher, but handily my parents changed
>
> [Oddly enough, same here. I'm Chris Paul ... It's an absolute pain in the
> arse. Note to parents: don't do this.]
I know a Andrew Christopher Jackson that's known as Chris. So it's not
just Christopher that's shunned...
> 128MB RAM and a K6 is quite enough to run a decently hammered mod_perl site.
> You only need more memory if you end up using a large database or doing
> something rash like install Oracle. Assuming you're not on an OC-12 backbone
> and you're not doing finite element analysis of an F15 jet per form
> submission, your IO bottleneck will be the net.
I would think that more RAM is a good idea. This is because:
1. It's cheap right now
2. We're a varied range of people so will probably want to load a whole
host of modules in mod-perl. This will probably make our httpd
rather fat and take up a lot of memory - much more if it was a simple
production machine.
> Building reliability is probably your best aim: does it have a UPS? does it
> have a RAID 1/0 config? Dual PSUs? Tape drive & backup policy? Those things
> are way more important than a faster chip or RAM.
Along these lines I'd buy another hard drive. Having lots of hard drive
space is good for backups - most time data is lost not due to hardware
failure but the directory stucture it's in being trashed through
human/coding error. Simply back up to another area.
Also if we keep the original drive we can simply backup to that
nightly. Quicker and easier than tapes - and as we've said any long term
data should really be backed up by individual users anyway, so we need not
worry about things like state51 burning down (well, as far as the server
data is concerned)
For the record, my box, heavly used used by myself, Leon, Simon, Shevek,
and Magnus for 2shortplanks.com / astray.com / huckvale.net / anarres.org
is:
model name : AMD-K6(tm) 3D processor
stepping: 12
cpu MHz : 501.143806
total:used:free: shared: buffers: cached:
Mem: 264376320 208822272 4048 47583232 25063424 128712704
Swap: 542826496 32563200 510263296
(Leon, thanks for the memory)
Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda6821340164 816634860 3890812 100% /
/dev/hda115522 3540 11181 24% /boot
(actually, that's a lie - df very broke - it's only 18GB - but you get the
idea)
Later
Mark
(off to see the offspring)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Consultancy company
Roger claimed that:
> This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness
> in customer relations than I've ever seen - and if that firmness were
> present, we wouldn't need XP anyway...
One of the main problems with full disclosure with the client is that it
can only ever work when you've only got one client. In my job you tend to
be working on more than one project at any given time; I certainly don't
think I'd like to be the one to tell the client 'sorry this is late, but
there was this unexpected problem with some work we were doing for another
client and it took up all our time'.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Consultancy company
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Leon Brocard wrote:
> Dave Mee sent the following bits through the ether:
> > One of the best solutions I've come accross to this problem is to take an
> > iterative approach to development.
>
> Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day /
> week you have changed something and can show it to the client
> again. This way the client really understands what he really wants.
This even works well if you are working on projects for yourself. It's a
very good way of maintaining focus and not going off on tangents when
you're programming.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Consultancy company
That Brocard bloke wrote:
> > Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day /
> > week you have changed something and can show it to the client
> > again. This way the client really understands what he really wants.
Two points:
1. This is not what the book is all about. The book is all about many
things working together, this being one concept. In XP they are all
important.
2. I first heard about building at the end of the day in Brooke's
Mythical Man Month.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Mail-To Munging - was Re: Conslutancy
Grep ignored with :
> Si wibbled at grep :
> > No. When you reply-all it replies to the sender *AND* the list. So the
> > sender gets two copies of everything. Which is just fricking irritating
> > *AND* a waste of bandwidth.
>
> la la la la *has hands over ears* i cant here you, la la la la
Worse than this, the person who you are replying to tends to get their
copy not via the list. With a slow list server it means the sender gets a
copy *way* before the rest of the group. This tends to lead to
'tit-for-tat' type discussions that are simply 'broadcast' to the list as
the rest of the list don't even have a hope of keeping up and jumping in -
they're still getting the original message when another six or so have
been sent. This defeats the whole point of the the list.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: odd -w effect
> Strange. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
lines and screw up the file. That's what I normally find the problem is
when 'nix can't find the file.
Later.
Mark.
P.S. UltraEdit32 is a good choice of Windows editor.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: odd -w effect
As I seemed to be destined to be ignored, I'll do what I should have done
and shoult a little louder:
UltraEdit32 is a really good windows editor[1] if you like the way of
Windows. It does all the right things (in the way that perl does all the
right things) with line endings. And a lot more (but in a good way, not
in a bloat way)
If you're on Windows and you want to be on Linux then get emacs or
whatever, which do work, but don't bitch about the people using
their metophor of choice not using emacs. Just bitch at them for
using a shit program (e.g. notepad) and give them a really nice
windows style program (e.g. ultraedit). TMTOWTDI.
Later.
Mark.
[1] It's shareware. It's actually the last commerical software (excluding
games) I bought.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: odd -w effect
> My solution is truly disgusting, but works. I've patched bash so that I
> can paste (middle click) a http URL onto the command line and it will
> start in netscape. As I always have at least one terminal open on my
> desktop that does the job perfectly.
Whenever I'm doing this I tend to
1) Highlight the text
2) Click the middle mouse button at the start of the dialog I want to
paste to
3) Hit Ctrl-K (deleting all the old text to the right of the cursor)
4) Press return.
This tends to work no matter what you are using - there are better ways
depending on what browser you use, etc, but this tends to work
universally. YMMV.
Later.
Mark.
P.S. Try putting the mini-commander applet in gnome in it's own toolbar,
put it bottom right, remove the tabs and set it to slide out - voila - a
prompt that materialises whenever I put my cursor in the bottom right of my
screen - and one that can accept pasted urls.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Dream weaver
> > DREAMWEAVER 3.0- Training Dates Now Available!
> > ==
> > With Dreamweaver being adopted by up to 90% of development companies
> > worldwide, Focus Group are now providing cost effective, scheduled and
> > company specific Dreamweaver training, offering Developers the
> > opportunity to gain extensive skills in just 2 days.
What's a 'development company' when it's at home? Also, note that
Developers is being used as a proper noun here (as in, what Focus group
consider a Developer to be)
Later.
Mark.
(Who works in marketing and remembers the phrase about not trying to
bullshit a bullshiter)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Mailing List Archive
This is my two pence worth:
1. I stand by everything I've ever said on the the list. If I didn't
mean it I wouldn't have said it.
2. However, I can see problems with people taking things I've said out of
context. Pah, so be it. This is the problem with the world.
3. If I wanted to say something in private, I'd do it off list. Or on
irc. Or on one of the private lists I'm a member of.
4. However, it is apparent that certain people (read headhunters) are
reading this list and taking advantage of it (using my phone number.)
5. As far as stuff getting back to my employer, well my employer has
benefited from me being on list something chronic. The knowledge I've
gained, amongst other things, has been highly useful. P.S. I'm late
for work. Daryl, if you're reading this then I owe you an extra hour
;-)
So in conclusion, I'm for an open list. But I don't care enough to object
either way. I think the real question should be, do we munge
reply-tos or not
Later.
Mark.
P.S. Oi, recruiters. I'm happy where I work. Ta.
1984: These are my personal opinions, and do not represent my employer.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Mailing List Archive
Dave Cross wibbled:
> The other week I dug out the original comp.lang.perl.misc post.
I think I have a recording of someone bashing a stick near a big black
rectangle somewhere too...
Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so
much that they get overloaded and fall over? ;-)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Mailing List Archive
> > I sez: > > > > Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so > > much that they get overloaded and fall over? ;-) > > > > Then grep sez: > > they wouldn't fall over if .. > > they were written using java on a windows platform and using > DB2 as the database > > ;-) Depends if the list was is set to munge reply-to or not really, doesn't it. And we know this kind of stuff only happens on the first thurday (not the day after the first wednesday) of the month. Later. Mark.
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> How do people feel about going back to State51? Does someone want to
> contact the ICA?
Hmm. No one seems to have replied to this[1]. I think the lack of
response seems to indicate that no-one has any objections to either
venue. I personally thought State51 was very good, but I'm all for
variety in the venue.
What kind of deal were the ICA offering us?
> Any other suggestions?
Yeah, the web site sez that technical meetings are bi-monthly. Shouldn't
we change this as they're only monthly (though half way though the month.)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
> [1] ?
Ooops, I know there was something I'd missed off the bottom of the
message. That'll teach me to watch TV, eat, use irc, and post at the same
time
[1] Unless I've missed it due to the large amount of mail, or someone has
replied off off list.
> I have replied to this, off list, because the preferences I expressed were
> personal and medical... ;-)
Fairy Nuff. Speaking from a personal standpoint, I really enjoy the
technical meetings and think more of them would be really beneficial[2]. I
think they represent a lot of what we are us to and show that we're all
not just talk 'n booze. Hence I'm anxious to see them succeed.
If not any of the venues discussed then where? If we need another venue
then someone should look into it[4] asap, and we can see what we can do.
Later.
Mark.
[2] Bath.pm roots showing. We used to discuss a fair amount of technical
(but not necessary perl related) stuff. From this, I quickly progressed
into the well rounded perl programmer I am today[3]
[3] How well rounded is a matter of opinion. Let's just say I wouldn't be
a scratch on what I am now without them.
[4] Which I'd do, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about. Let's just
say that I've got my cow in the ditch here, and thus would be willing to
look into it if no-one else can come up with better suggestions.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
RE: Technical Meeting Venues
Dave wrote, while probably stroking a gold plated cat, in response to grep
talking about living above him:
> Bit tricky that. What with us living in a house and all that.
Wot, you've seen shallow grave haven't you?
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: OT: joke
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Simon Wistow wrote:
> One day Dracula is walking down the street when suddenly 10 tons of
> smoked salmon sandwiches, bread rolls, pitted olives, chicken wings,
> chipolatas, tomato salad, pizza slices and crisps descends on him from a
> great height and knocks him to the ground.
>
> "Oh no!" he gasps with his dying breath
>
>
>
> "It's Buffet the Vampire Slayer."
>
"It's muffin the vampire baker!"
Oh, wait, that's just a Sluggy Freelance character.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
As I skuttled off to Nottingham[1] this morning, Philip Newton wrote:
> that I wrote:
>
> > [2] Bath.pm roots showing. We used to discuss a fair amount
> > of technical (but not necessary perl related) stuff. From
> > this, I quickly progressed into the well rounded perl programmer
> > I am today
>
> Is that "well rounded perl programmer" in the sense that "grep is well
> rounded"?
>
Yes and no. If you mean well rounded in girth then no. If you mean well
rounded as in 'well, time for another round then', then yes.
Later.
Mark.
[1] Which wasn't that Grim, but Kings Cross was. Oh wait, that's
another thread completely
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
.emacs
I like my .emacs file. It sets nice fonts and colours, and sets the
editing mode and wrapping mode of choice ;-)
I'm sure it can do more...
1) Where do I find handy things to put into my .emacs file on the web?
2) Got any nice bits of your .emacs file to share?
Note that (shock, horror) I can't program lisp properly (duh, I program
perl) so that I may sound stupid when it comes to these things.
Later.
Mark.
P.S. All other editor comments >/dev/null or to sender as I think we've
had quite enough holy wars on this list this month.
Oh that goes for pro/anti lisp/scheme comments too ;-)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: .emacs
Robin said:
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:53:00PM +0000, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > 2) Got any nice bits of your .emacs file to share?
>
> Hmm, well this:
>
> (add-hook 'ange-ftp-process-startup-hook
> '(lambda ()
> (ange-ftp-raw-send-cmd proc "passive on")))
>
> enables ange-ftp mode to work from inside our firewall.
> Not very exciting unless you have the same problem...
Hmm. Can you do something to save directly via scp?
Later.
Mark.
(who if not can see a perl program coming on)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]
> It's starting to sound like I@m the only bugger who _hasn't_ got a copy
> of my book yet :(
Fret not, fearless nominal leader. Mine hasn't arrived yet either.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: 33 mails
grep complained:
>
> how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between when i
> left work and now?
>
> sheesh
Practice? We learn quickly, o wise teacher.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: irc problems
> >IRC's IP, anyone?
> 195.82.114.160
london.rhizomatic.net === astray.com
=== twoshortplanks.com
=== huckvale.net
(which is easier to remeber than IP numbers Shirley)
Should really get round to seconding the DNS methinks.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl Books
> However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to
> anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should
> apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen,
> I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not
> attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way.
Hmmm.
My sink is blocked. It's very blocked. I'm good enough at plumbing to
take the u-bend off and check that that wasn't blocked - a simple enough
process. It turned out that that wasn't the problem - it was further down
the pipe. At this point I called a plumber[1].
Draw whatever comparisons you will between this and coding.
Later.
Mark.
[1] I actually called the landlord, and told him to call a plumber...
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
> > Look at what Sun says Java is not suitable for to get a short list. IIRC
> > they included stuff such as life support machinery in hospitals, air traffic
> > control, and nuclear reactors. Space Shuttle or manned-space-flight rocket
>
> I think this is primarily because Java is not a real-time language (as
> in specifiable bounded time for each operation) on account of Java
> insisting on providing garbage collection which is almost impossible to
> do efficiently in real time.
This is primarily because the code that makes up Java hasn't ever been
proven (in a maths sense) to work. GCC comes with the following
disclaimer too:
this program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
As for the real time nature of garbage collectors, Shevek and I (and some
others) wrote a paper together on this, so I could say a lot here.
Especially about how Perl is much more real time as it can do better at
allocating and deallocating the same bit of memory (as it instantly
knows when memory is free, unlike mark and sweep) and is a lot less likely
to cause page faults. Of course, reference counting suffers from the
dreaded deep free problem so if you don't program carefully you can very
very easily shoot yourself in the time constraint foot too.
> > control logic probably should also be bug free.
>
>
That's an implementation problem. Control logic problems are ones like
'The spacecraft doors shall not be able to be opened manually and shall
remain in computer control incase human error causes the inside to be
depressurised' and then not realising that in some situations you need to
be able to open them both (e.g. internal fire, meteor strike, HAL going
nuts)
Most problems are control logic problems. The computer implementation
ones make better reading though...
Later.
Mark.
P.S. Scary thought: During a transatlantic flight on average cosmic
radiation flips at least one bit of the control systems memory.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Xinerama
Question 1.
Can I make a second X server into a second monitor (well, in my case a
third one) I doubt it, so here's question two
Question 2.
If I can't, is there any easy way to control client placement/move stuff
around in Perl remotely? I've played with eesh before (I'm runnin E) but
I wondered if there was a better way that talking in some weird way to
do this that isn't so icky. I forsee many problems with running multiple
copies of X on the same machine.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re:
> What is your ... err ... friend's name?
I think you'll find it's Dave. This would be suspicious, but as we know
virtually all London Perl Mongers are called Dave, so no more need be said
on the matter.
> /me suggests that grep post a map on his website.
For those of us that were at the YAPC pub crawl, it's the pub by the river
outside, you know, after where we saw where the rose theatre was. The
penultimate one
See:
http://www.virgin.net/foodanddrink/pubfinder/pubcontroller/findPubSearch?pubWhere=se1&pubName=Anchor
There's a map off of that page too.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
OT: Buffy (or not OT, depending on your point of view)
So I watched the Buffy film for the first time, and I don't see what
you're all complaining about - or rather I do, but I don't care.
Sure, the first 40 minutes are a bit painful, and the vampires are a bit
daft, but I can see where we're going. There's even some good banter in
there and some truly excellent backflips by the end - it just takes that
long for Buffy to turn into Buffy (rather than some Cordelia like
creature)
The one thing that gets me is that does anyone remember the trailer for
this film? I seem to remember this bit where Donald Sutherland throws a
knife at Kirsy Swanson and she catches it between two palms in front
of her head. Now I didn't see this in the movie. Does anyone else
remember this?
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: IRC: london.rhizomatic.net down
Philip Newton typed:
> mailboxes.net--
>
> london.rhizomatic.net seems to be down.
http://www.mailbox.net.uk/support/status.shtml sez
2001-02-09 13:12:22 (alexx)
Routing to Fulham is having problems, we are trying to fix it now.
Laters.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Mailbox co-lo - honest opinions
> On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:04:10PM +, Neil Ford wrote:
>
> > My first instinct is to put the box in Mailbox as it'll be fairly low
> > usage but with the recent outage to london.rhizo I'm concerned what
> > Mailbox's record is like.
>
> That is the first major outage I've noticed.
They've had minor outages in the past. About a month ago we lost them for
half an hour.
Whenever we've dealt with their technical support team (both for the box
and for ADSL) they've been relatively clued up. This is a good thing and
I can forgive a lot for it. Most ISPs (people on the list excluded) tend
to be clueless when it comes to talking to their clients. Since talking
to bad techical support can take years off of your life this is something
I try to avoid.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Pony and Buffy (was Re: Mailing List Stuff)
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:34:15PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
> > > what is it with ponys?
> > I've wondered that too.
> > Seems to be a #perl obsession...
>
> >purl< pony
> [purl] pony is Gimme a Pony! Pony! Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony
>Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony
>Pony! Pony Pony Pony!
>
> Michael
Obviously one good meme deserves another:
-> *dipsy* buffy?
*dipsy* trelane: wish i knew
*dipsy* purl knew: buffy is I want
BUFFY! Buffy! Buffy! Buffy! Buffy
+Buffy Buffy! Buffy Buffy Buffy! Buffy Buffy Buffy! Buffy Buffy Buffy!
Okay, own up, who was this ;-) ? And more importantly, who told dipsy to
forget Buffy...
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: DMP
Micheal claimed that:
> amazon uk have started shipping data munging with perl. I have my
> copy.
Indeed they have. I've got mine now. They're also shipping the mod_perl
pocket reference.
[% UNLESS office_policy_to_use_amazon %]
[% INCLUDE standard_reasons_not_to_use_amazon_text %]
[% END %]
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: DMP
> [% UNLESS office_policy_to_use_amazon %]
> [% INCLUDE standard_reasons_not_to_use_amazon_text %]
> [% END %]
Someone tell Andy, this doesn't seem to be working. Either that or you
lot felt the need to rehash it all again ;-)
Didn't anyone tell you guys that perl automatically rehashes stuff when it
gets too big to handle anyway...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: t-shirts
> Perl t-shirt ideas
=pod
=head1 Bad Perl T-Shirt Ideas
Sorry.
=head2 perl related
* "My other t-shirt has a camel on it"
* "I know perl" "Show me"
* "If you programmed in perl you'd be home by now"
* "You don't have to be mad to program perl, but it helps"
* "95% of cats prefer programming perl over any other language"
* "Perl. There is no a."
* "mod_perl. It's not a quake add on. It's more fun than that"
=head2 lpm related
* "London.pm: we camels"
* "I want a PONY!", on the back (("PONY"x10)."\n")x40
=head2 joke within a joke (PIMB ref)
* "#! perl is my programming language of choice"
* "#! perl is my itch" (preferably in the same blue, same font)
* "Smack my perl up"
* "Muttley is a Arsehole" (let's see Randall complain about that)
* "I blame Wistow for *everything*"
=head2 random
* "XP programmers do it in pairs"
* "This is not a credit or debit card"
* "Just another local who happened to be in your holiday photo"
* "If you lived here you'd be like all the other voices"
* Front: "Why?" Back: "Why not?"
* On front and back "humorous slogan on other side"
* "This is a t-shirt. There are many like it. But this is mine"
* on the back "Stop following me"
=head2 and finally
#!/usr/bin/perl
$shop = undef;
{
local $shop = {}; $this = $shop;
local @people = &residents; for (@people) {$this->{$_}=\$PreciousThings;}
}
print HERE $shop->{You};
$shop->{You}->touch if defined($shop->{You})
=cut
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: t-shirts
> ... I mean .. people will laugh and mock us how could you .. it
> should be "Muttley is an Arsehole" .. I dunno, such poor grammar these
> days :))
No, just poor typing I'm afraid.
This would only work however if Simon printed and distributed the
T-shirts ;-)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Greetings
> > have you folks never seen Angel?
> I've never seen Angel.
It's a really nice part of London, if it wasn't for all the nu meeja
hors. You really should see it sometime.
Oh, right, you mean the person? He sits behind me. Nice bloke.
Other things that should go in the FAQ:
Q. How do I advertise a job on the list.
A. If you're a recruiter, you don't. Anyone else should advertise it with
a subject line starting JOB:
Q. What's the IRC thing?
A. london.rhizomatic.net, 6667, #london.pm
Q. What's dipsy on the irc channel?
A. An infobot. http://www.infobot.org
Q. What's dadadodo on irc
A. It's a bot that listens to everything everyone says on the channel and
uses some maths to build statistically likely (but mostly
nonsensical) statements.
Q. What templating system should I use?
A. Template Toolkit. It's much nicer than the others, and Andy has given
us good talks. You should also look at www.axkit.org for a more XML
like solution. This issue has been done to death. YMMV, and you
should be aware that other templating solutions are also avaliable.
Q. There's too much going on! How do I keep up?
A. Read Leon's weekly summaries, which he posts to the list
Q. How many people subscribe to the list
A. A lot more than post.
Q. Oooops I missed a load of posts. Are there any archives?
A. Yes. http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/
Q. This stuff is archived? How do I stop this happening?
A. < please someone fill this in >
Q. What is PIMB?
A. 'Perl is my B*tch', a tshirt made by Simon Wistow that got him into a
lot of trouble.
Q. You've got a server?
A. Yep, it's what hosts london.pm.org. People that once paid cash for
this have shell accounts on it. One day we hope to move the list to
it. It's currently in State51 and what jolly nice people they are too.
Q. You've got a camel?
A. Yep, it's in London Zoo and we sponsor it. People who put money
towards it are planning to visit it at some point.
Q. What do I do if I've got more questions?
A. Post to the list. It's a social list with a heavy technical
slant. Or go ask dipsy on #london.pm
Later.
Mark.
(oooh, someone could collect these and put them on the web page)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Greetings
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> I wibbled:
> > (oooh, someone could collect these and put them on the web page)
>
> OK. If anyone else wants to add stuff to the list, I'll edit them
> together and put them on the web page in the not too distant future.
Q: What do I do with all this cash that I've got left over after hiring
someone from the list and not having to pay recruiters fees?
A: When people hire people from the list they normally donate 500 usd to
1000 usd (depending on the role) to YAS (http://www.yetanother.org/)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Off the grid.
Right, that's it. I've had enough.
I'm off the 'net for little over a week - I'm trying an experiment to see
what happens if I don't use a computer for a week. This is a sanity
recovering exercise. I'll let you know what happens.
See you at the meetings. Those of you that I've arranged to do stuff, call
me about it, okay?
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Graphical Documentation
ELLO london.pm.org. Long time no C[1].
I'm needing some programs to produce graphical documentation[2], and as
I'm feeling lazy (which is a good thing, right,) so rather than writing my
own, I thought I'd ask you lot what you thought were the best tools out
there.
I need to produce:
1. Thingys showing SQL tables.
2. Thingys showing OO abstraction
Nethier of these need to be in any particular form. They just have to
make sense to me.
Ideally, I'd like somehthing that would run on Windows or Linux
(i.e. written in Perl) but you get the idea.
Later.
Marks.
[1] Or no Perl, more to the point. I'm back online. As for a week
offline: Let us never talk of it again)
[2] This is a 'oh, god this is complicated and I need to see what's going
on' kind of problem not a 'management don't get it' kinda problem
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Graphical Documentation
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
> > 1. Thingys showing SQL tables.
>
> Have a look at http://www.codewerk.com. On the projects page, download
> GraphViz::DBI and dbigraph.pl. See the sample database table graph linked
> from that page. I'm working on making it more flexible and pretty.
Oooh, ahhh. Looks really nice. Now the only problem with this is
that it requires me to actually have created the database. We're not at
this stage yet (though I will see if I can knock up a diagram of our
current old database schema so we can have some reference.)
Oh, there seems to be something odd with that server set up. Because
my copy of Gnome-Terminal does url catching I can Ctrl-Click on any url
and it pops up in netscape. However, being a good url catcher it matches
the '.' at the end of the url (as it should do.) Now this is really odd,
as 'http://www.codewerk.com./' does not show the same thing as
'http://www.codewerk.com/' (which it should do as
'www.codewerk.com.profero.com' or 'www.codewerk.com.loc0.profero.com'
doesn't exist on our network.) This is most odd. I've tried it from other
locations (via the wonders of ssh tunnelling) and I get the same thing.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Am I going nutts ? - read before answering!
> Yup, that's right. So to get it to only have the one call, change your
> "use" to a require and put it in the BEGIN block.
use fred;
Will also call fred->import(), so you might want to emulate that too.
> --
> Robert Price - Technical Manager - EMAP Digital Travel | Tel: 0207 3092711
> Priory Court, 30-32 Farringdon Lane, London, EC1R 3AW | Fax: 0207 3092718
>
Shouldn't these numbers be formatted 020 7XXX
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Kevin Smith Film Fest
> > > I'll also draw a map at some point
> >
> > Details at http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/filmfest/
>
> In order to try and finish at a vaguely reasonable hour I'm going to
> start early. So, my house, 2pm for a 2:30 start on Saturday.
Want us to bring anything?
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Strange Request
> and here we get back to the ROPE project as discussed before, where we
> could do a standard distribution of Apache/Mod Perl/Perl/Perl modules,
> with TT, XML::*, etc.,etc. already there
Might not be a bad idea doing each of these in each of the technologies
anyhow. It might prove a good way of showing how each of these work.
The biggest problem I have with using these 'branches' of perl is knowing
where to start. If we had a collection of standard scripts that was
re-written each time in TT, XML::* or whatever, then I (or other clueless
monkeys like me) could work from what they know how to start, where to go,
etc, etc.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
> Textclock Mark
> Countdown Mark
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
Dave wrote:
> Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Should have put my name down really I
> suppose. Here it is if you're interested.
And what's wrong with the following line? ;-)
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
RE: Matt's Scripts
>
Stop, stop, this script archive is not ready yet! Where are the Hello
world examples? Where are the detailed instructions? And why are you
actually working on these scripts yet!
You're all getting ahead of yourselves. We need to write a set of
helloWorld scripts that the script user can upload first to find out the
basic facts about their server and check everything is working.
a) You have multiple copys of the script with different shebang lines on
the top. Only one of these will work and one of the things it'll do is
print our is "The first line of programs you upload to this server should
be #!/blah/perl"
b) It checks your perl version is reasonable. Actually it probably should
do this before a) in case there are several versions installed.
c) It tests if you've got a borken version of CGI.pm (or CGI.pm at all) by
looking at version numbers, etc. Same for other modules.
d) It links to an image in the same directory as itself and explains that
if the image isn't viewable then you do not have inplace cgi and the
things you have to know about this
e) It prints out the time, and GMT time thus highlighting to the user any
problems they might have if this is wrong
f) It prints out a hunk of diagnostic information (e.g. perl version,
module versions, url, etc, etc)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
> (What do you mean with "not-inplace cgi"?)
Some servers (like my own) are configured to allow you to run perl scripts
anywhere.
Some servers (especially in the paranoid ISP land) are configured to have
a /cgi-bin/ where you have to put files in that will be 'executed'.
Typically you cannot read from these dirs with a web server (you can only
execute the program and read their output.) This is so that if you have
passwords in your scripts it's very hard for the bad guys to read these
files and get the script via the webserver no matter what mistakes you
make (e.g. if you accidentlally leave backup files around.) The main
drawback of this is that you can't serve normal files (like images) from
the same directory.
I call the first 'in place cgi' and the latter 'cgi-bin'
Hope that's clear.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
> > is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows?
>
> On Windows I use pscp which comes from the same people as putty. It
> works well, but it doesn't have a pretty graphical front-end.
Yes there is. http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm.
I suggest you peeps read http://www.openssh.org/windows.html which lists
alternatives
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:34:32 + (GMT), Jon Eyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My several users use scp.
> > >
> > > is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows
> > > clients? my several users require them, or they'll just continue
> > > using ftp, because it's *easier*...
> >
> > They won't if you stop running the ftp daemon on the server :)
> >
>
> Rule one of security:
> Ensure availability for authorised users
>
> this breaks it ;-)
>
Do what we do. Keep everything running, but shove a whopping great
ipchains (or firewall of choice) in the way. If you want to access it,
ssh tunnel it first.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts
> Yes there is. http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm.
I've since installed WinSCP, from the list of alternatives on OpenSSH This
is also based on PuTTY and isn't so, well, dodgy as iXplorer. Forget I
ever mentioned it.
Seems to work well for me. The interface is clunky (i.e. you have to
press F5 to copy rather than drag and drop) but is still something your
average windows user would have no problems using.
http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ (we should have just googled for winscp in the
first place)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12
> Leo Lapworth was trying to debug something with Devel::DProf and
> couldn't understand why BEGIN was called more than once. Robert Price
> and Mark Fowler pointed out that 'use Module LIST' is exactly
> equivalent to 'BEGIN { require Module; import Module LIST; }', so the
> module was being use-d in multiple places, which is fine:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg02667.html
Did I? It's not you know. You forgot this bit of the perldoc -f use as
well:
If you don't want your namespace altered,
explicitly supply an empty list:
use Module ();
That is exactly equivalent to
BEGIN { require Module }
i.e. that use Module and use Module() are ne.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12
> Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream
That's not right. MIMEs do type/format (e.g. image/gif.) So it'd more
likely be:
Content-type: beer/guinness
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Silliness
> print unpack('u', ';0FEG($)R;W1H97(@:7,@=V%T8VAI;F<@>6]U'),"\n";
perl -e 'print unpack("u",q{;0FEG($)R;W1H97(@:7,@=V%T8VAI;F<@>6]U}),"\n";'
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Silliness
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> but that wouldn't work on Win32 platforms as they seem to insist on double
> quotes to delimit command arguments.
Speak for yerself, I use bash on my windoze box ;-)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: wasn't someone looking for some diagramming -> SQL stuff recently?
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, James Powell wrote:
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/dia2sql/
I was looking for some tools to create diagrams with but Ooooh! Anyhow,
now all we need is a GraphViz to dia tool ;-). Which reminds me, how's
things going with your Perl->UML Aaron?
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Dedrat 7.0 and PGP
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2001 at 02:01:11PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote:
> > On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, someone wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm using 7.0, and hating it. I should never have upgraded.
> >
> > I am beginning to wonder whether we should have gone that route on the
> > swerver .. bu still.. too late now.
>
> What I'm really hating is the stuff that broke when I upgraded from 6.2.
> Mainly X font stuff, and I rally can't be bothered to dig through the
> gazillion different places that X puts stuff so I can fix it.
Hmm. Both my laptop and desktop are running 6.2 atm. I find that
whenever I do a helix-gnome update (or whatever they're calling it this
week) it breaks the fonts. The server works fine, it's just that the
/etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs file is knackered. Typing xfs & from the command
line still works fine for me, so I'd check that first as it's probably the
same b0rken RPM they both install.
I'm running 6.2 with the following key additions: helix-gnome, perl 5.6,
new apache (with mod_perl), sudo, and the 2.4.2 kernel. I recently
installed my laptop from scratch and this took me about a day to install
(+ a day fscking around with partition magic and windows.) It Works For
Me(tm) but I'm sure there's a better way.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts Projects
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
> * Web page. Need somewhere to point potential users at. Probably two
> versions - one for the developers and one for the users. This can be
> a subdirectory on london.pm.org.
I don't mind doing this bit of it. I would quite like the idea of
creating a few web pages for someone other than myself or for work for a
bit, unless anyone's got any objections...
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts Projects
It has occured to us we need a decent name for this. Discussion on IRC
has concluded that:
a) It shouldn't mention Matt in the title.
b) That is should have a name that appeals to newbies.
c) It should sound at least semi-professional[1].
But apart from that we've been useless
Later.
Mark.
[1] Okay, so I added this one myself, but I think it's a good idea.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts Projects
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> > b) That is should have a name that appeals to newbies.
>
> How about EasyScripts ? the domain name is available, anyway.
Not very perl, but I like it. Something similar though.
> > c) It should sound at least semi-professional[1].
>
> Can we make use of the PerlMonger connection and/or use the Programming
> Republic logo ?
Yes, IMHO, though IANAL.
http://www.pm.org/faq.shtml
http://republic.perl.com/logo.html
The perl mongers logo is a little on the big size (and we're not allowed
to resize it.)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Matt's Scripts Projects
On the subject of having zip archives as well as tarballs on the server,
Gareth Harper said:
> Winzip (what most windows users these days use to unzip) handlers tar.gz by
> default so that may not be neccesary.
Not neccesary from a techical point of view. Neccesary from a social
point of view (What's this extension! I don't understand! What's going
on! What are all these weird charges from AOL? etc)
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> Take a look at this <http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Date-MMDDYY>.
>
> Now give me:
>
> a) a two reasons why this module should never have been written, and
1) I'm English. MMDDYY makes not sense. Maybe that's just a gripe about
the name.
2) Time::Object rocks.
> b) as many flaws as possible in the implementation.
no 'use strict'
should use prototypes to force scalar context on the string passed (but
see below for gripe)
Spliting up the string representation of a time is a bad thing and why not
just use the array format of gmtime/localtime.
no 'my @format'
no 'my $delem'
no 'my @time_array'
The whole string with delimeters thing is silly and just let people pass
each formating thing in @_ directly.
no 'my @final_date' # but with an undef!
does not die, or return undef, or do anything sensible with an error, just
returns 'Error'.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm => 'Profero Ltd',Web => 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
