Re: Mason
On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 12:45:24AM +0100, Paul Johnson wrote: Disadvantages are that it's tied to mod_perl. I believe that means that you can't bring plack into the equation which, in turn, means that you can't take advantage of the plack middleware. I'd be pleased to be shown that I'm mistaken here. We ran mason under fastcgi for years before Plack came along, and these days we use HTML::Mason::PSGIHandler. I'm not a fan of the dispatcher in mason, but I don't object to the templating system (provided you avoid the pitfalls you mentioned of defining an actual subroutine rather than a subref, and avoid some of the more interesting features such as METHOD blocks). -kevin
Re: Mason
Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. I'm a bit old fashioned and prefer to have a paper copy that I can scrawl all over - so does anyone know if/when the new edition is expected in paperback and is it worth buying? The book web site (http://www.masonbook.com/) has no mention of an updated revision, so I'm betting that the later date on the kindle edition is just the date that the kindle version of the original edition was published. For example, the kindle edition of the TT book is dated 7 Jun 2011, but I know that's the same as the 2003 edition). (BTW I'm just assuming the 2002 edition is *way* out of date - but correct me if I'm wrong!) No idea. 2002 was about the last time I looked at Mason :) Dave...
Re: Mason
On 29 February 2012 16:10, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. Mason 2 was released: Feb 16, 2011 - I'm guessing (but don't know) that it changed quite a bit. Personally I use Plack + Template toolkit + Catalyst mostly. But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. Leo
Re: Mason
On 29 Feb 2012, at 16:10, Dave Cross wrote: I'm betting that the later date on the kindle edition is just the date that the kindle version of the original edition was published. For example, the kindle edition of the TT book is dated 7 Jun 2011, but I know that's the same as the 2003 edition). That makes sense - thanks for pointing that out! Chris
Re: Mason
On 29 Feb 2012, at 17:11, Leo Lapworth wrote: Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. Mason 2 was released: Feb 16, 2011 - I'm guessing (but don't know) that it changed quite a bit. Personally I use Plack + Template toolkit + Catalyst mostly. But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. New job, old tricks new to old dog Have to confess, I didn't realise Mason (1) was quite *that* old Chris
Re: Mason
On 29 Feb 2012, at 17:11, Leo Lapworth wrote: On 29 February 2012 16:10, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. Mason 2 was released: Feb 16, 2011 - I'm guessing (but don't know) that it changed quite a bit. Personally I use Plack + Template toolkit + Catalyst mostly. But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. Indeed. Replace it with a less powerful home-brew templating system.
Re: Mason
On 29 February 2012 17:11, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote: On 29 February 2012 16:10, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. Mason 2 was released: Feb 16, 2011 - I'm guessing (but don't know) that it changed quite a bit. Personally I use Plack + Template toolkit + Catalyst mostly. But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. There's plenty of good reasons to use Mason (and it's latest Moosified incarnation), but here's a few: - Pages inherit from each other, and now it's got all the Moose power. - It helps you to catch errors early and easily. - You're not restricted to a mini-language that only (almost) make sense if you're not a programmer. Unless you use Perl blocks. - Because the code is Perl, you've got all the Perl goodness right there for you, should you need to do some complex things (I'm talking rendering only here, don't get me wrong :) ). - It plays very well as a templating system only, which is probably the way you want to use it those days. I'd agree the dispatcher part of it would probably be better as a plugin for those who are really allergic to other MVC's Anyone advocating TT for the protection it provides against bad practices should have a look at that: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Template-DBI/ J. -- Jerome Eteve. http://sigstp.blogspot.com/ http://twitter.com/jeteve
Re: Mason
On 29 February 2012 18:41, Jérôme Étévé jerome.et...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 February 2012 17:11, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote: But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. There's plenty of good reasons to use Mason (and it's latest Moosified incarnation), but here's a few: Just for clarity, the _why_ was asking if it was for an existing Mason 1 site, or if he was starting a new project. Not saying that Mason shouldn't be used (each to their own and all that). Mind you at the same time, I wouldn't promote it... I think it' is possible to create good Mason sites, I've just not seen or heard of any that didn't end up being a twisty maze with logic in too many places and little/no MVC separation. This was all pre Mason2 which I've not looked at either so things may have changed and as I say, I'm sure it is possible. Leo ps. https://metacpan.org/module/Task::Kensho always useful if your looking for what some people think is currently being used in production by a lot of clueful people.
Re: Mason
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 06:21:04PM +, Jones, Christopher wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 17:11, Leo Lapworth wrote: Quoting Christopher Jones c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk: I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. Mason 2 was released: Feb 16, 2011 - I'm guessing (but don't know) that it changed quite a bit. Personally I use Plack + Template toolkit + Catalyst mostly. But not sure _why_ you want to learn Mason, if it's for an existing site then the book may be of use. New job, old tricks new to old dog Have to confess, I didn't realise Mason (1) was quite *that* old I've learnt enough Mason in the last year to keep an old site up and running and extend it as required before it gets replaced by a .net system. (Yeah, yeah.) From my point of view, there's little to recommend using Mason nowadays. Mason 1 that is, I have no knowledge of Mason 2. The only advantage I can think of is that you might like its templating system. Personally, I don't really, but I can believe that others might. Disadvantages are that it's tied to mod_perl. I believe that means that you can't bring plack into the equation which, in turn, means that you can't take advantage of the plack middleware. I'd be pleased to be shown that I'm mistaken here. Additionally, each template is in the same namespace, and is basically the body of a subroutine. This essentially means that you can't use named subroutines in templates. You can look on this as encouragement to move your logic into modules but, as Leo notes, the other side is that the components can get very messy if you don't heed this encouragement. And then I had to hack Mason itself in order to get code coverage information from the components. I managed alright with the online book that Dave mentioned, but I wasn't trying to learn it thoroughly - just well enough. My best tip, if you need to work with Mason, is to look at the compiled code in the mason_cache directory to see what's really happening. -- Paul Johnson - p...@pjcj.net http://www.pjcj.net
Mason
I'm looking for a decent book to help get me up to speed with Mason but could only find Embedding Perl in HTML with Mason on Amazon - a paper edition from 2002 and a more recent 2010 edition on Kindle only. I'm a bit old fashioned and prefer to have a paper copy that I can scrawl all over - so does anyone know if/when the new edition is expected in paperback and is it worth buying? (BTW I'm just assuming the 2002 edition is *way* out of date - but correct me if I'm wrong!) Chris
Mason Vs Template Toolkit
Hi, I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. We've got this Mason only, bosses pet, who is trying to challange our decision to rebuild a site in Template, as opposed to Mason. My initial reasons were that template allows us to build a more generic system which is not just web-centred. Also that it's more usable for designers. We've got to defend this soon. I'd appreciate some pointers about session management approaches vs Mason custom. Also about companies using Template and other good reasons to go with template. Anyone up at this time? Cheers, Fiq __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
Come, come. I need some of these pretty fast. Big companies using tt2? __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote: Hi, I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. We've got this Mason only, bosses pet, who is trying to challange our decision to rebuild a site in Template, as opposed to Mason. My initial reasons were that template allows us to build a more generic system which is not just web-centred. Also that it's more usable for designers. We've got to defend this soon. I'd appreciate some pointers about session management approaches vs Mason custom. Also about companies using Template and other good reasons to go with template. Anyone up at this time? Cheers, Fiq __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote: We've got this Mason only, bosses pet, who is trying to challange our decision to rebuild a site in Template, as opposed to Mason. Well, I've built a CMS in TT and very easy it was too but not what you'd call a major site. The largest site I can think of if, of course, slashdot, and there are lots of slash derived sites. Your decision comes down to (a) what are your costs for training people in TT or Mason; (b) How much you want to disengage the logic processing from the presentation. TT is very good at keeping logic (i.e. perl code) away from the presentation. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the resources you have available and your personal preference. I am more familar with TT and would use that in almost all situations. YMMV. __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion ETOOBIGSIG ! Simon. -- Zaphod old mate, I trust you as far as I could comfortably spit out a rat
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) sent the following bits through the ether: I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/08/21/templating.html may be useful. I tend to use TT as I like to completely seperate business from presentation. This way making a SOAP interface / a WAP site / a digital tv interactive site / a web site in another language / a postscript document / POD from the same data is really easy. tt2.org probably needs a TT powered sites list. Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/ ... But I don't like Spam!
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote: Come, come. I need some of these pretty fast. Big companies using tt2? This http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/08/21/templating.html might help. Cheers, paul __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote: Hi, I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. We've got this Mason only, bosses pet, who is trying to challange our decision to rebuild a site in Template, as opposed to Mason. My initial reasons were that template allows us to build a more generic system which is not just web-centred. Also that it's more usable for designers. We've got to defend this soon. I'd appreciate some pointers about session management approaches vs Mason custom. Also about companies using Template and other good reasons to go with template. Anyone up at this time? Cheers, Fiq __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion -- Paul Sharpe - Technical Director Tel: +44 (0)1483 894158 Russell Sharpe Ltd. Fax: +44 (0)1483 898932 The Tannery, Tannery Lane mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bramley, Surrey GU5 0AJ, UK
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
On Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 10:34:18AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) sent the following bits through the ether: I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/08/21/templating.html may be useful. I tend to use TT as I like to completely seperate business from presentation. I'm not all that familiar with Mason although have hacked a little but I certainly got the impression you could hide away business logic in modules and use its embedded perl for the presentation only. There are Mason-to-TT converts on the templates(at)template-toolkit dot org list you could ask. It'd be biased but it sounds like that's what you want :-) Paul -- Paul Makepeace ... http://paulm.com/ If drawing is like riding a bike, then what can you do. -- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/
Re: Mason Vs Template Toolkit
Rafiq == Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rafiq Hi, Rafiq I need some quick references and points, if anyone is free. Rafiq We've got this Mason only, bosses pet, who is trying to challange our Rafiq decision to rebuild a site in Template, as opposed to Mason. My initial Rafiq reasons were that template allows us to build a more generic system which Rafiq is not just web-centred. Also that it's more usable for designers. We've Rafiq got to defend this soon. I'd appreciate some pointers about session Rafiq management approaches vs Mason custom. Also about companies using Rafiq Template and other good reasons to go with template. Rafiq Anyone up at this time? I just cut over www.stonehenge.com from Mason to Template, after a long hard look at both. Big plusses for Template: + same technology can be used for the HTML delivery as for all the meta work... my config files are now all CVSed and Template'd, so I can extract and run a development version of the website easily by changing one parameter in a Makefile (all paths change, etc) + Template provides a meta-language, much easier grokked by web designers. (Ever try teaching a web designer Perl's arcane syntax for hashes of hashes?) + Template's embedded Perl can be either enabled or disabled, providing either flexibility or security + Template is in heavy geek use, now that it's been adopted by slashcode. + Nearly every step is pluggable and hookable and subclassable (slashcode pushed the templates into a database, for example, by simply subclassing the provider). + Andy Wardley is flexible and a pretty good hacker. Minuses for Template: - Caching is not as good as Mason - you have to roll your own solution. The Template boys (particularly Perrin, who had lots of experience with Template at etoys.com et seq) counter by saying the caching at the HTML level is wrong... you should cache the input data and the full page views. I'm beginning to see their point. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
tt2 using mason tags
Hi, I'm experimenting with conversion of a mason template based system to tt2. I tried to set TT2Tags to mason and then to % however this, even with the evaluate option to on, doesn't seem to work. (Apache::Template) I then wrote a custom handler which uses a custom parser, which I've constructed with the tag style set to mason. No go there either. I've got inline perl turned on, however I seem to alternate between a random permissions error (probably a silly oversight) and an unevaluated tempalate. Does this sound familiar? Has anyone had any success with porting straight from Mason? Part two would be to replace the inline code with tt2 directives- thought it was worth mentioning this before getting flamed. :) I'm just after evaluation with mason tags. Anyone? TIA, fiq __ __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion
Re: tt2 using mason tags
On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote:
Converting Mason to TT2 stuff
Hi.
May I suggest you repost this to the template toolkit list?
http://www.template-toolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/templates
Sounds like you're getting confused between [% %] for template code
and [% PERL %] ... [% END %] for actual real perl code
Later.
Mark.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: tt2 using mason tags
Mark Fowler wrote: Sounds like you're getting confused between [% %] for template code and [% PERL %] ... [% END %] for actual real perl code Agreed. Also, any significant Mason component is likely to use Mason's built-in object model, which is not part of TT. You will probably have to port some code before it will run. - Perrin
Re: tt2 using mason tags
Mark Fowler wrote: Agreed. Also, any significant Mason component is likely to use Mason's built-in object model, which is not part of TT. You will probably have to port some code before it will run. Understood, but it's a small application which is more custom o.o. perl and inline perl based than it is custom mason. Other than the fact that it gets rendered by mason, it is pretty independent. It's just the fact that in spite of my specifying that it should use inline_perl, it didn't interpolate the inline code which uses custom modules in mason tags. I've got it to try and interpolate now, however it seems to warn that $VARNAME's are odd symbols. I'll look at that later. Going to redo the whole thing in tt2 directives anyway. Cheers to all. fiq __ __ __ _ __ __ | \/ | ___ __| | ___ _ __ _ __ | \/ | __ _ _ __ | |\/| |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ '__| '_ \| |\/| |/ _` | '_ \ | | | | (_) | (_| | __/ | | | | | | | | (_| | | | | |_| |_|\___/ \__,_|\___|_| |_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_| a pathetic example of his organic heritage - Bad Religion
Re: tt2 using mason tags
Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote: It's just the fact that in spite of my specifying that it should use inline_perl, it didn't interpolate the inline code which uses custom modules in mason tags. I've got it to try and interpolate now, however it seems to warn that $VARNAME's are odd symbols. If you post an example of the troublesome templates on the TT list, someone will probably be able to help you. - Perrin
