Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
Another suggestion.. perhaps if [SOLICIT]ed solutions are found the steps to achieve that solution could be posted here. I would hate for this list to grow towards becoming a "I'll solve this off list for you" instead of a growing recource of information to be googled / researched by all. dean Obviously, there are some formatting suggestions that make everyone's experience better. The first is the theming of a post. If you find a news event that you want to share, please precede the subject with [NEWS]. Use this protocol for announcements, [ANNOUNCE] and any other theme you think is appropriate. If you want to pay someone on the list for a service, please precede the subject with [SOLICIT] Also, please provide an off-list contact number or address so that interested parties can privately negotiate with you.
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
Well done scott. Something you might add is a description of what a WIKI is. I only figured it out recently. dean p.s. where is the wiki page... I lost monmotha's post w/ the address... Users trying the fruits of these projects may encounter hardware, software, and programming issues as they attempt to make the computer obey their wishes. All of their questions are welcome. Regardless of what you may think as you type it, NO question is stupid or foolish. We all start somewhere; there is no shame in sharing where you are. Your helpful experiences are encouraged. We have a WIKI, why not document them there? If you can help someone, go for it. If you are wrong, there is no harm in trying.
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
Just my thoughts on this. When I first started getting into mailing lists I violated every code of netiqette and got flamed like Johnny Torch on the Fantastic Four because of it. I think if a list policy had been in place it would have avoided this discussion as Edward could have simply been pointed to it. Don't lock the list down into some nazi set of rules of what can and can't be posted. Leave it open and free. As a result, I am sure Edward has a very bad taste in his mouth about Linux users in general. If anyone knows who this guy is, then someone should go to him and explain it and also tell him of the positive change he has inacted on the list. Scott, I like the way you worded the policy, it is not harsh and it is in passive voice. Which makes it sound like the policy is only trying to help the user post effectively. I think you did a fine job on this. Your a credit to the list. ;) Jon On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 08:43, R. Scott Belford wrote: > Joe Linux wrote: > > > > > > > R. Scott Belford wrote: > > > >> I tried to address this with the following: "Responding to other > >> members on the list to address personal issues is generally > >> discouraged. This is a gathering. If you have an issue with a > >> person at a gathering, you don't disrespect the peace of the others > >> by publicizing your personal grievances. This communication is best > >> left off the list." > >> > >> scott > >> > > Again I feel that the term "generally discouraged" should be "strongly > > discourage". I would rewrite the above passage as follows: > > > > "Responding in a derogatory or insulting manner to other members on > > the list is assiduously forbidden. Our mission is to promote > > fellowship within the open source community; and in turn, share our > > fellowship with the larger community of all computer users. If you > > have a dislike, or hatred toward a particular individual, you don't > > disrupt the harmony of the community by publicly insulting that > > individual and displaying your personal grievances, hatreds, and > > prejudice. " > > > > The reason I suggest this language as it addresses exactly what > > certain members have been doing on this list. > > The issues of our community goals are mentioned elsewhere in the > greeting/policy. By suggesting this change to address a specific > member, you are inherently nudging against the policy. We all know what > "certain members" are doing, it is a mailing list. Enough said. > Ignore those you think have taken a personal shot at you. Please don't > respond to them in kind as I see a following post has. > > scott > > > > > > > > > Also, it might be good to add a passage about the importance of > > maintaining a sense of humor as laughter is known to be cathartic. > > > > ___ > > LUAU mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > > > > > > > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
Joe Linux wrote: R. Scott Belford wrote: I tried to address this with the following: "Responding to other members on the list to address personal issues is generally discouraged. This is a gathering. If you have an issue with a person at a gathering, you don't disrespect the peace of the others by publicizing your personal grievances. This communication is best left off the list." scott Again I feel that the term "generally discouraged" should be "strongly discourage". I would rewrite the above passage as follows: "Responding in a derogatory or insulting manner to other members on the list is assiduously forbidden. Our mission is to promote fellowship within the open source community; and in turn, share our fellowship with the larger community of all computer users. If you have a dislike, or hatred toward a particular individual, you don't disrupt the harmony of the community by publicly insulting that individual and displaying your personal grievances, hatreds, and prejudice. " The reason I suggest this language as it addresses exactly what certain members have been doing on this list. The issues of our community goals are mentioned elsewhere in the greeting/policy. By suggesting this change to address a specific member, you are inherently nudging against the policy. We all know what "certain members" are doing, it is a mailing list. Enough said. Ignore those you think have taken a personal shot at you. Please don't respond to them in kind as I see a following post has. scott Also, it might be good to add a passage about the importance of maintaining a sense of humor as laughter is known to be cathartic. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
R. Scott Belford wrote: I tried to address this with the following: "Responding to other members on the list to address personal issues is generally discouraged. This is a gathering. If you have an issue with a person at a gathering, you don't disrespect the peace of the others by publicizing your personal grievances. This communication is best left off the list." scott Again I feel that the term "generally discouraged" should be "strongly discourage". I would rewrite the above passage as follows: "Responding in a derogatory or insulting manner to other members on the list is assiduously forbidden. Our mission is to promote fellowship within the open source community; and in turn, share our fellowship with the larger community of all computer users. If you have a dislike, or hatred toward a particular individual, you don't disrupt the harmony of the community by publicly insulting that individual and displaying your personal grievances, hatreds, and prejudice. " The reason I suggest this language as it addresses exactly what certain members have been doing on this list. Also, it might be good to add a passage about the importance of maintaining a sense of humor as laughter is known to be cathartic.
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 14:27, Jimen Ching wrote: > But it does get very frustrating when some very vocal members start > voicing opinions on the list concerning the direction of the group that > contradicts the goals. Your options then are either to ignore it, which > might result in the group going in what I believe to be the wrong > direction, or get into a flame war. In both cases, it is a lose-lose > situation. > Well said. You are right, I too let my anger get the better of me, distracting me from the real goals that we are all fighting for. In the future I should do the right thing and simply ignore a post that I feel is annoying. It doesn't help the situation to incite a flame war. Warren
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Joe Linux wrote: >I don't think the mentioning of being "blacklisted" is very appropriate >as it is sort of Klu Klux Klan like in thought an spirit. You're right. When I first started on the Internet, I received a few emails from people who said they have placed me into their kill file or whatever. I never understood why they felt they needed to notify me of this. Like I cared. I also never believed in such things. I just can't believe I let Warren get so deep under my skin that I became part of this group. I will delete my kill file, since I've never believed in such concepts before, and I shouldn't have started now. But it does get very frustrating when some very vocal members start voicing opinions on the list concerning the direction of the group that contradicts the goals. Your options then are either to ignore it, which might result in the group going in what I believe to be the wrong direction, or get into a flame war. In both cases, it is a lose-lose situation. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
Joe Linux wrote: I like your guidelines very much, and suggest only the following change: Change "You will likely be ignored or placed into a black list" to "You most likely will be ignored by many of the members." Thanks. I meant to imply that a member would add such an offender to their blocked list. You are right, though, it sounds as if the list maintains a black list that one could be found on. I will modify this. Also you probably should include some statement to the effect that "Direct insults to or towards specific members of the group which do nothing to promote group harmony are considered inappropriate and therefore are highly discouraged." I tried to address this with the following: "Responding to other members on the list to address personal issues is generally discouraged. This is a gathering. If you have an issue with a person at a gathering, you don't disrespect the peace of the others by publicizing your personal grievances. This communication is best left off the list." scott
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
I like your guidelines very much, and suggest only the following change: Change "You will likely be ignored or placed into a black list" to "You most likely will be ignored by many of the members." I don't think the mentioning of being "blacklisted" is very appropriate as it is sort of Klu Klux Klan like in thought an spirit. It seems to me that we all should have the maturity to ignore or at the the least simply delete the posts that don't interest us, or bother us in some way. Also you probably should include some statement to the effect that "Direct insults to or towards specific members of the group which do nothing to promote group harmony are considered inappropriate and therefore are highly discouraged." R. Scott Belford wrote: This is my proposed list guideline/welcome. I have inserted it into my message, and I am including a plain text attachment. Please do with it what you will. You don't have to like it. Just help make it better if you don't.
Re: [luau] Proposed list guidelines
This is my proposed list guideline/welcome. I have inserted it into my message, and I am including a plain text attachment. Please do with it what you will. You don't have to like it. Just help make it better if you don't. Very nicely written. Thank you for taking the time to do it. George, what do you think of the guidelines? --Ray
[luau] Proposed list guidelines
This is my proposed list guideline/welcome. I have inserted it into my message, and I am including a plain text attachment. Please do with it what you will. You don't have to like it. Just help make it better if you don't. scott Aloha! Welcome to the mailing list of Hawaii`i's Linux and Unix Advocates and Users (LUAU). We are pleased that you have decided to join our gathering. Before you get too wrapped up in the party, perhaps you can take a few moments to look through our recommended list guidelines. Anytime so many people get together and welcome your comments in their inbox, it doesn't hurt to know how to be a welcome guest. LUAU is a mailing list that encourages discussion about Linux and Unix. It is a communication venue for users and advocates of the countless distributions of Linux. It is for the many variants of Unix such as the *bsd projects. Unix has given birth to many amazing software projects. Some of these have been organized within the GNU (gnu is not Unix) endeavor. Some have been focused on the development of Linux. Because of the existence of the GPL, these projects are available for anyone to be involved in without paying money. This is because the source code is Open to the public. Consequently, many professionals and hobbyists have been able to create software capable of controlling your home, business, or charity, and it is Free to you. Advocates are interested in seeing the benefits of Free and Open Source Software reach more than just the enthusiastic community of current users. This list invites their experiences or ideas about how to make this remarkable assimilation of distributed software projects a bigger part of our society and economy. If you are involved in an interesting project, we would like to know. Perhaps someone here can help. Users trying the fruits of these projects may encounter hardware, software, and programming issues as they attempt to make the computer obey their wishes. All of their questions are welcome. Regardless of what you may think as you type it, NO question is stupid or foolish. We all start somewhere; there is no shame in sharing where you are. Your helpful experiences are encouraged. We have a WIKI, why not document them there? If you can help someone, go for it. If you are wrong, there is no harm in trying. It is harmful not being polite when offering help. Please do not be condescending to or critical of other participants. Responding to other members on the list to address personal issues is generally discouraged. This is a gathering. If you have an issue with a person at a gathering, you don't disrespect the peace of the others by publicizing your personal grievances. This communication is best left off the list. So, this list is about helping. It is about sharing information. If one wishes to be explicitly critical of a particular software project or a design feature in a Linux distribution, try to make this criticism with logic and not emotion. If one really intends to influence the opinion of every subscriber to this list, please attempt to do so with reason and experience. Frankly, we ask that you do not SPAM the list. We define SPAM as Selling a Product that Asks for Money. Please do not use the opportunity to reach such a targeted market to push your product. There are subtleties to this policy that are difficult to be certain of. If you are really uncertain, ask the listmanager for input. Try to think of it this way: If you are at a party, you probably don't want someone selling you insurance. You may not mind if they tell you where they got a great deal on a processor. It wouldn't hurt to know about volunteer projects you are interested in. It would be nice if they offered you the chance to earn money doing something you like. In the context of this mailing list, it is preferable not to sell products on it, it is okay to share good experiences with vendors, it is okay to share information about relevant volunteer projects, and it is okay to try to give the list sponsor or list members money. Obviously, there are some formatting suggestions that make everyone's experience better. The first is the theming of a post. If you find a news event that you want to share, please precede the subject with [NEWS]. Use this protocol for announcements, [ANNOUNCE] and any other theme you think is appropriate. If you want to pay someone on the list for a service, please precede the subject with [SOLICIT] Also, please provide an off-list contact number or address so that interested parties can privately negotiate with you. Replying to a post involves more than just typing in your comment. First and foremost, please check to be sure that your email client is sending plain text email, not html. Try to delete everything that is not necessary. This is referred to as trimming your post. Most email clients are set to includ
