Re: [luau] Hyper technology
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >does PPC offer any advantages in the area of context switching >(over various x86 implementations)? Probably not. The x86 context switch is pretty fast. So I doubt the PPC has any advantages in this area. >is there a good comparison of processors (benchmark) site >that lists L1 cache(s) sizes L2 cache sizes, speeds, association schemes >and other processor charatracteristics in addition to the part >number or brand name and speeds? I would imagine the results of such comparisons would be proprietary information. After all, someone with such knowledge would be able to design a better CPU. Also, each of these parameters are affected by the depth of the pipeline. So it is useless unless you specify the pipeline depth. >I ask because I'm shopping for a new laptop and >past experience (purely subjective) is that I'm much happier >with larger L1 program and instruction caches than these blazing The L1 cache is very fast. This means it is very expensive. This is why CPU designers try to select the best L1 and L2 cache size to obtain the best performance. With a given CPU speed and pipeline depth, there is a rate at which data is needed from memory. You need a large enough L1 cache to keep the pipeline moving. Any larger, and you're just wasting money. >clock numbers. This, and the SPARC processors seem to handle a large >number of processes better than the intel for a given clock speed... >Not that I expect to find a price/performance competitive >notebook with SPARC :-) I believe the fast context switching time in the SPARC is the result of the register file design. On the PPC and IA-32, context switching just loads the CPU registers from a specific memory location. In the SPARC, there is this ring design which stores the CPU state. So there is no external reference to memory. Of course, this is based on information I learned from a course at UH 7 years ago. So it may be out of date now. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
All I can say is that testing with the MIT software, the article from Linux Magazine (January 2003 page 8) and Mark Minasi (W2K guru) and Dan York (Linux guru)all show performance levels that justify what Intel (retail site) stated on how that the CPU reacts as a dual processor since the technology uses thinner (diameter) wiring throughout the processor. Mark and Dan just published a book together called "Linux for Windows Administrators" which is a follow up to the "Secret Decoder Ring" book, in which Dan describes how "hypertechnology" is a plus for Unix/Windows systems. They give high performance ratings on a box that uses it versus one that uses dual xeon (2.0 ghz) CPUs. I want to move on to other issues so I will not be responding to anymore emails on this. If you have any further questions, please buy the book or check the Intel Retail site which url I listed previously. If you already tweaked your hdd to work on a previous unit and installed the same hdd on the box which uses this technology, then that may be why you have such poor performance. Do a fresh install of RH or Windows and wipe your hdd clean prior to running the new install and you will definitely see a performance boost. I just know from installing a dual boot (XP and RH8) on a friends box that it works as well as stated. Dan > L1 and L2 cache as well so don't buy into any negative comments about > hyperthreading until you read the facts. Buy the way, the unit described in > this article was a Dell and came preinstalled with RH7.2. > > Dan I don't profess to understand completely how L1 and L2 cache works, but I know enough to say I don't think you understand the true nature of this situation. Hyperthreading simply doesn't make things twice as fast. No disrespect intended. Warren ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
LinuxDan wrote: Also, hyperthreading technology started with the 2.0 chip. It increases processing speeds up to twice as fast as a dual processor and utilizes the Hyperthreading will NEVER have performance twice as fast as a real dual processor. Most of the time you will have only a few percent performance increase, and some things actually go SLOWER with hyperthreading. Only very special cases optimized for hyperthreading have significant gains. L1 and L2 cache as well so don't buy into any negative comments about hyperthreading until you read the facts. Buy the way, the unit described in this article was a Dell and came preinstalled with RH7.2. Dan I don't profess to understand completely how L1 and L2 cache works, but I know enough to say I don't think you understand the true nature of this situation. Hyperthreading simply doesn't make things twice as fast. No disrespect intended. Warren
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
Randall Get the January issue of Linux magazine and turn to page 8. It fully describes how Redhat7.3 and later support hyperthreading out of the box. Also, hyperthreading technology started with the 2.0 chip. It increases processing speeds up to twice as fast as a dual processor and utilizes the L1 and L2 cache as well so don't buy into any negative comments about hyperthreading until you read the facts. Buy the way, the unit described in this article was a Dell and came preinstalled with RH7.2. Dan Randall Oshita wrote: > Where can I check in 7.3 to see if its using HT? > Randall > If your hardware and kernel properly supports hyperthreading, then you would actually see what appears like multiple processors in "top" and other system monitors, but it is actually your one Pentium4 or Xeon processor. Now that I think about it, Red Hat 7.x after all updates uses the same kernel as Red Hat 8.0, a heavily patched 2.4.18, so even older 7.x releases can run hyperthreading now. Only difference with the 7.x kernel is that they are compiled with the old gcc 2.96 instead of gcc 3.2. But anyway, in most cases you wont notice much differences with hyperthreading enabled. A few specific optimized cases go faster with hyperthreading, but there's also a few cases where things actually can go SLOWER with hyperthreading due to one thread killing the L1 or L2 onchip cache used by the other. Warren ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
On the subject of perforance... does PPC offer any advantages in the area of context switching (over various x86 implementations)? is there a good comparison of processors (benchmark) site that lists L1 cache(s) sizes L2 cache sizes, speeds, association schemes and other processor charatracteristics in addition to the part number or brand name and speeds? I ask because I'm shopping for a new laptop and past experience (purely subjective) is that I'm much happier with larger L1 program and instruction caches than these blazing clock numbers. This, and the SPARC processors seem to handle a large number of processes better than the intel for a given clock speed... Not that I expect to find a price/performance competitive notebook with SPARC :-) -Bob On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Warren Togami wrote: > Randall Oshita wrote: > > Where can I check in 7.3 to see if its using HT? > > Randall > > > > If your hardware and kernel properly supports hyperthreading, then you > would actually see what appears like multiple processors in "top" and > other system monitors, but it is actually your one Pentium4 or Xeon > processor.
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
Randall Oshita wrote: Where can I check in 7.3 to see if its using HT? Randall If your hardware and kernel properly supports hyperthreading, then you would actually see what appears like multiple processors in "top" and other system monitors, but it is actually your one Pentium4 or Xeon processor. Now that I think about it, Red Hat 7.x after all updates uses the same kernel as Red Hat 8.0, a heavily patched 2.4.18, so even older 7.x releases can run hyperthreading now. Only difference with the 7.x kernel is that they are compiled with the old gcc 2.96 instead of gcc 3.2. But anyway, in most cases you wont notice much differences with hyperthreading enabled. A few specific optimized cases go faster with hyperthreading, but there's also a few cases where things actually can go SLOWER with hyperthreading due to one thread killing the L1 or L2 onchip cache used by the other. Warren
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Warren Togami wrote: >8.0 uses 2.4.18 with many more additional patches. I checked through my >mail archives and there was some discussion in both Red Hat 7.3 and 8.0 >about hyperthreading, and the consensus was that it should be working in >7.3. If it didn't work in some case, then it should be reported as a >bug. Please let me know if you find a case where it doesn't work >properly and I will report it through the proper channels. Where can I check in 7.3 to see if its using HT? Randall
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
Sorry I got this one right after I sent the reply to the last one! Should've checked my mail sooner! Still wondering about the clock rate though, can't seem to find the chip you have? Thanks, Todd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LinuxDan Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [luau] Hyper technology The benchmark rating was in comparison between the OS's on the same system listed below. The hyperthreading technique actually allows between 50 and 75 more greater data flow rate depending on which applications your using. I have the benchmark software on my laptop and use my laptop for a diagnostic tool but the actual benchmarks on the CPU rating below was from the exact duplicate system now in the hands of a tech friend. We purchased the MLB and CPU for $179 from Intel directly through retail site. The fastest CPU is now the 3.0. But I cannot complain. I ready now to build my own just looking for a decent case and DVD Ram drive. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jimen Ching Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [luau] Hyper technology On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, LinuxDan wrote: > I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading >on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. >Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and >data transfer rates. Just curious, how are you measuring your performance benchmarks. I did some searchs on hyperthreading benchmarks, and none of them indicate anywhere near that kind of performance increase. The performance improvements are usually under 10%. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/2002
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
I was wondering were you got a 2.53 Ghz Hyperthreaded CPU? I thought this was a feature coming out with the new 3.06 CPU? Do you mean hyper-pipelined? If so I would be interested in where you got it from and for how much? Thanks, Todd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jimen Ching Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [luau] Hyper technology On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, LinuxDan wrote: > I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading >on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. >Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and >data transfer rates. Just curious, how are you measuring your performance benchmarks. I did some searchs on hyperthreading benchmarks, and none of them indicate anywhere near that kind of performance increase. The performance improvements are usually under 10%. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/2002
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
The benchmark rating was in comparison between the OS's on the same system listed below. The hyperthreading technique actually allows between 50 and 75 more greater data flow rate depending on which applications your using. I have the benchmark software on my laptop and use my laptop for a diagnostic tool but the actual benchmarks on the CPU rating below was from the exact duplicate system now in the hands of a tech friend. We purchased the MLB and CPU for $179 from Intel directly through retail site. The fastest CPU is now the 3.0. But I cannot complain. I ready now to build my own just looking for a decent case and DVD Ram drive. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jimen Ching Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [luau] Hyper technology On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, LinuxDan wrote: > I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading >on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. >Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and >data transfer rates. Just curious, how are you measuring your performance benchmarks. I did some searchs on hyperthreading benchmarks, and none of them indicate anywhere near that kind of performance increase. The performance improvements are usually under 10%. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
Just curious, how are you measuring your performance benchmarks. I did some searchs on hyperthreading benchmarks, and none of them indicate anywhere near that kind of performance increase. The performance improvements are usually under 10%. --jc well you also need to take into consideration what platform he was on before. So linux dan what was your system prior? Because, ya 200% is nuts!! Randall
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, LinuxDan wrote: > I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading >on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. >Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and >data transfer rates. Just curious, how are you measuring your performance benchmarks. I did some searchs on hyperthreading benchmarks, and none of them indicate anywhere near that kind of performance increase. The performance improvements are usually under 10%. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
Randall The MLB D845PEBT2 also has onboard RAID. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Randall Oshita Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 1:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [luau] Hyper technology LinuxDan, Whats the exact model on that board? And chipset? Tryong to look for it on Intel's site. Thanks Randall Jimen I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and data transfer rates. Dan ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
LinuxDan, Whats the exact model on that board? And chipset? Tryong to look for it on Intel's site. Thanks Randall Jimen I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and data transfer rates. Dan
RE: [luau] Hyper technology
Jimen I am using the Intel 2.53 CPU and MLB that uses hyperthreading on triple boot system running RH8, W2K and XP. Actually RH8 utilizes it better than MS. I have 200% increase in speed and data transfer rates. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jimen Ching Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 5:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [luau] Hyper technology On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Warren Togami wrote: >Hyperthreading you mean? Yes, hyperthreading. >RH8.0, Mandrake 9.0 or SuSE 8.1 or newer should be able to handle it just >fine. I doubt the issue is with the distribution. What kernel version is used in RH8.0? RH7.3 uses a patched 2.4.18. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Warren Togami wrote: >8.0 uses 2.4.18 with many more additional patches. I checked through my >mail archives and there was some discussion in both Red Hat 7.3 and 8.0 >about hyperthreading, and the consensus was that it should be working in >7.3. If it didn't work in some case, then it should be reported as a >bug. Please let me know if you find a case where it doesn't work >properly and I will report it through the proper channels. I'll bring this up at work. Thanks. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
Jimen Ching wrote: RH8.0, Mandrake 9.0 or SuSE 8.1 or newer should be able to handle it just fine. I doubt the issue is with the distribution. What kernel version is used in RH8.0? RH7.3 uses a patched 2.4.18. --jc 8.0 uses 2.4.18 with many more additional patches. I checked through my mail archives and there was some discussion in both Red Hat 7.3 and 8.0 about hyperthreading, and the consensus was that it should be working in 7.3. If it didn't work in some case, then it should be reported as a bug. Please let me know if you find a case where it doesn't work properly and I will report it through the proper channels. (8.0.92 beta uses a heavily patched 2.4.20 kernel.) Warren
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Warren Togami wrote: >Hyperthreading you mean? Yes, hyperthreading. >RH8.0, Mandrake 9.0 or SuSE 8.1 or newer should be able to handle it just >fine. I doubt the issue is with the distribution. What kernel version is used in RH8.0? RH7.3 uses a patched 2.4.18. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] Hyper technology
Jimen Ching wrote: On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, LinuxDan wrote: Just received MLB and CPU from Intel (DB45PEBT2 MLB and 2.53 P4 CPU) that support hyper technology allowing one CPU to act as multiprocessors allowing faster data rates and complex math computations. I am eager to put it together as soon as I get a worthy case and maybe even a DVD RW. I am going to dual boot XP and RH8 Server on this. At work, we bought one of these systems with dual P4 processors with this hyper technology. My co-worker tried to get RedHat 7.3 to work on this system and failed. The Linux kernel had trouble detecting the processor because of the hyper technology. He had to disable this feature to get the kernel to boot. I would be interested in finding out if you were able to get linux to boot with this feature enabled. --jc Hyperthreading you mean? RH8.0, Mandrake 9.0 or SuSE 8.1 or newer should be able to handle it just fine.
