Re: [luau] List Policy
Jimen is on my "good guy" list. Jimen Ching wrote: On 18 Oct 2002, Warren Togami wrote: Yes, and now you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you. Could you put me on your blacklist as well? And I'll do the same for youon mine. Thanks.--jc
Re: [luau] List Policy
Basically my feeling is that each person should post in a manner which is comfortable to them. If I don't want to read something I just delete it with my Delete key. For example I delete all of my own posts. Often I delete stuff on the intricacies of server set up or bulk email handling, as it's not something I'm into. I guess I delete most of the threads related to the discussion of problems with RedHat as I don't use it. Usually if I respond or post, it is a response to what someone has actually posted. For example I responded to Warren when he stated that he is an expert at spam handling and has his machine finely tweaked to eliminate the problem. I was somewhat curious why someone is so worried about alleged spam when from all outward appearances the person has that one aspect of their life very much under automated control. Jimen Ching wrote: Whether responses should go into the same email depends on whether thecontent is for one thread or different threads. Personally, it isconfusing to discuss multiple threads in the same email. Some sentencesmay be ambiguous, and if there are multiple threads in the same email, howdoes one know which thread it was refering to? This is how flame warsstart. People misinterpret the wording, and all hell breaks loose.On the other hand, if I want to respond to multiple people on the samethread, I tend to put it all in the same email. It is easier for me tocompose the email and follow the thread.This is just how I do things.--jc
Re: [luau] List Policy
Message Deleted as the poster often resorts to name calling as opposed to intelligent discussion. Now we have a new term and concept "Netrollism" which apparently is any discussion of group policy which is in disagreement with the self appointed list policy netiquette leader. Warren Togami wrote: On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:16, Jimen Ching wrote: On 18 Oct 2002, Warren Togami wrote: Yes, and now you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you. Could you put me on your blacklist as well? And I'll do the same for youon mine. Thanks. Although I often don't agree with your viewpoints, but I at least canrespect your opinion. George has proven to be nothing but a troll, so Ichoose not to read anything he says from now on.___LUAU mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
I actually haven't stated that the LUAU operation is lousy. What I have said is that the CLUE group doesn't suffer from these petty disagreements over how and what to post. Basically there is free and open discussion, a monthly meeting which almost always has a different person doing the presenting. I gave a presentation there myself on my modifications to the ICE Windowing manager to make it extremely user friendly. Everyone's' presentation usually includes some sort of side show presentation, and supporting printed documentation which is handed out to the group. The sessions are divided into two parts. A KISS session for people with less experience with Linux, and then a more heavy duty main presentation of more advanced topics. The main presentation is usually by professional IT managers or professional programmers. They have had presentations by people working at Silicon Graphics, Sun Microsystems, the CEO of Colorado Tape Backup drives, Techangle ISP, Standard Poors IT manager and so forth. My presentation was for the KISS session. Each meeting has extensive door prizes. When your number is called, you get to choose from a table full of books and boxed distributions and other novelty items related to Linux or open source. They had an auction and I won the high bid on a bundle of Adobe PhotoShop 5.0, 5.5 and Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 all in the original boxes for $13.00. The president is a very likable amiable guy who is easy to talk too. Honestly, I have never been insulted by the president, or anyone else there. They certainly don't devote time to list policy or netiquette. Everyone just does their thing in a very professional manner, and they share their knowledge with one another. There isn't just one star. Everyone is made to feel like a contributing member. I think the MidPac group is a good group and the CompUSA presentation was a very good thing. I know that LinuxDan worked very hard on it. Scott Belford has great ideas and experience. Some of the MidPac group members are every bit if not more knowledgeable then the people in Denver. I find it a shame that immediately after the CompUSA demo day, all this strife had to break out. I actually haven't been critical of the group as a whole, but have certainly suffered abusive, degrading treatment from the leader, and I don't think that's a good thing, particularly when I see the same thing happening to others who are just new to the list or who are seeking help and are willing to pay for it. I may be in the middle of the discussion, but I certainly didn't start the problem. My initial biggest offense apparently was forgetting on occasion to trim a post. It went downhill from there. Ironically my wife and I have been financial contributors to the group, and find it very unethical and unprofessional to be continually insulted by the leader. Something's not right.Leadership is more than just technical knowledge. A leader has to be a people person , and good politician. Leadership isn't insulting people for their opinion when they have solicited opinions in the first place. I find it extremely offensive to be labeled a troll whatever that is in techno jargon. I like the members of the Luau group, and see it as an organization which has great potential to promote open source in Hawaii. But for this to happen, the leadership will have to stop directly insulting others, particularly those who have directly contributed financially to the cause. I'm not asking for special favors, but I certainly didn't expect abusive treatment when I made my donation. Elayne Man wrote: Okay, let's stop (indirectly) pointing fingers here... it may have been better to personally contact Ed about his e-mails, but nobody's perfect. If you have a problem with someone, try to take it out on them personally; the whole list doesn't need to know. (Maybe something of this extent can be added to the policy that Scott is writing?) George, you often talk about how lousy the LUAU operation is, and stated a couple of times about your CLUE group in Denver. So why don't you become a part of the solution by telling us how CLUE runs their group? Let's learn by example experience. I remember Warren mentioning that the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group had an interesting list policy worth looking at: http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - quite true elayne
Re: [luau] List Policy
Quitters are losers. I'm not quitting. Warren Togami wrote: I think SVLUG policy was mentioned by Gary Sublett, who later quit the list in protest because he was completely offended by commercial posts.
Re: [luau] List Policy
That makes sense. But I think this has preoccupied enough time and Warren has a decision to make on what action he feels needs to be taken. If someone wants to conduct business with someone whose soliciting help then let them do it with personal emails do not use the list to conduct business. If you need help and get over your head than gather your questions and ask them in a single posting then anyone who wants to respond directly can. But lets not kick a dead dog and over analyze everything. On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 17:50, Elayne Man wrote: Okay, let's stop (indirectly) pointing fingers here... it may have been better to personally contact Ed about his e-mails, but nobody's perfect. If you have a problem with someone, try to take it out on them personally; the whole list doesn't need to know. (Maybe something of this extent can be added to the policy that Scott is writing?) George, you often talk about how lousy the LUAU operation is, and stated a couple of times about your CLUE group in Denver. So why don't you become a part of the solution by telling us how CLUE runs their group? Let's learn by example experience. I remember Warren mentioning that the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group had an interesting list policy worth looking at: http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - quite true elayne Joe Linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I agree fully with you, but I guess at this point I see this as problem where a single individual is enforcing policy where no policy exists. Now you can ask is the problem do to a lack of policy or an individual who makes up policy on the spot, with little thought as he goes along. Since I was at the brunt of this in the past, I guess I can admit that a certain amount of bad blood is coming out now as I see the same thing happening to others that happened in the past to me. An yes, I agree this is definitely not in the interest of actually building and open source community. I would like to point out that I'm also a member of the CLUE group in Denver, and there are is virtually no equivalent problem. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Joe Linux wrote: than just technical knowledge. A leader has to be a people person , and good politician. Leadership isn't insulting people for their opinion when they have solicited opinions in the first place. I find it extremely offensive to be labeled a troll whatever that is in techno jargon. I like the members of the Luau group, and see it as an organization which has great potential to promote open source in Hawaii. I should point out, Warren is the leader of the MPLUG. I don't know if LUAU actually has a leader. We tried to setup an official organization, but the members simply didn't have enough time to dedicate to the group. I never heard from it again. Warren came along, started MPLUG, and tried to convince the members of LUAU to switch to his own mailing list. When that failed, he just moved the entire list over to his server when the previous host couldn't provide the processor time and disk space. No one wanted the LUAU mailing list to just disappear, so no one complained. I'm not sure if this is sufficient reason to call Warren the LUAU leader. Its his right to dictate list policy, but I don't think LUAU has a leader, and the members seem to do fine without one. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] List Policy
Great leadership and Linux community building. What a wonderful way to treat your benefactors. Fantastic believe in freedom of opinion. Naturally you are free to feel anyway you want and do anything you want. However you have to look at what happened to Edward Baker. Perhaps this is not an isolated incident. While I'm not an advocate of list policy, I sincerely believe that some issue that could be construed by the majority to be a personal feud should be taken to private email, particularly when it is the alleged leader of the group that is feuding. Warren Togami wrote: you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you.
Re: [luau] List Policy
The problem is I'm in a different time zone MST. So I just answer the posts as the come and as most everyone is sleeping in Hawaii when I'm responding it ends up puttng mine all in a row. In all honesty it would be difficult to combine my responses in to single post as I just read the Luau posts as they come and respond to them in the same manner. Eric Hattemer wrote: I do have to say that Warren has a point. 8 Posts in a row all about the same subject. It would be appreciated if you could generally combine your posts into fewer. This isn't a threaded forum. -Eric Hattemer
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Dustin Cross wrote: A user asking for help with open source, no matter if they are a home user or an individual looking to pay someone to help them set up their business with open source is not SPAM. I agree. It seems like the word 'SPAM' has been tossed around to mean anything that is unsolicited. At my previous job, my manager considered any email sent to more than 5 people as spam. Since I work in a software group with more than 5 people, it means if I want to send something to the entire group, I've just spam'ed them all. The definition of 'spam' for some people is getting ridiculous. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] List Policy
On 18 Oct 2002, Warren Togami wrote: Yes, and now you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you. Could you put me on your blacklist as well? And I'll do the same for you on mine. Thanks. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Joe Linux wrote: The problem is I'm in a different time zone MST. So I just answer the posts as the come and as most everyone is sleeping in Hawaii when I'm responding it ends up puttng mine all in a row. In all honesty it would be difficult to combine my responses in to single post as I just read the Luau posts as they come and respond to them in the same manner. Whether responses should go into the same email depends on whether the content is for one thread or different threads. Personally, it is confusing to discuss multiple threads in the same email. Some sentences may be ambiguous, and if there are multiple threads in the same email, how does one know which thread it was refering to? This is how flame wars start. People misinterpret the wording, and all hell breaks loose. On the other hand, if I want to respond to multiple people on the same thread, I tend to put it all in the same email. It is easier for me to compose the email and follow the thread. This is just how I do things. --jc -- Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:16, Jimen Ching wrote: On 18 Oct 2002, Warren Togami wrote: Yes, and now you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you. Could you put me on your blacklist as well? And I'll do the same for you on mine. Thanks. Although I often don't agree with your viewpoints, but I at least can respect your opinion. George has proven to be nothing but a troll, so I choose not to read anything he says from now on.
Re: [luau] List Policy
Can we get some sort of policy on asking for someone to help you for money? I have some suggestions ( I know I wasn't asked but what the H---). Construct a list of people who would like to do projects, tutor or what ever and when someone like me inquires either refer them to or send them the list. It should probably should include phone contact or city so I could contact someone near me. I'm not even interested in Joe Linux who lives somewhere in mountain time. You might even juggle the names each time so no one has an advantage. Charge a small fee to anyone using the list to find a tutor etc. The rest is only my 2c worth: One of the things I have always been most proud about is that I was a poor and hungry student. I made a lot of sacrifices working to put myself through school but I never though it insulting to be a poor and struggling student. I might also mention that when my son was an enginering student at UH he worked for local firms (called an internship) located through the school of enginering. When he graduated he was able to find a job here in Hawaii at a time when many of his friends had to relocate to the mainland and that was due to contacts he made in these jobs. A final thing is that I also take a chance when I hire someone. I have no way to judge their competance. A source of finding tutors/jobs benefits everyone, I can get a project done and the other person gains insight about jobs or perhaps starting their own business Neal
Re: [luau] List Policy
Scott Belford is currently drafting a proposal for list policy. We will post it to the list and request for comments. On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 17:07, Neal Gay Timon wrote: Can we get some sort of policy on asking for someone to help you for money? I have some suggestions ( I know I wasn't asked but what the H---). Construct a list of people who would like to do projects, tutor or what ever and when someone like me inquires either refer them to or send them the list. It should probably should include phone contact or city so I could contact someone near me. I'm not even interested in Joe Linux who lives somewhere in mountain time. You might even juggle the names each time so no one has an advantage. Charge a small fee to anyone using the list to find a tutor etc.
Re: [luau] List Policy
Okay, let's stop (indirectly) pointing fingers here... it may have been better to personally contact Ed about his e-mails, but nobody's perfect. If you have a problem with someone, try to take it out on them personally; the whole list doesn't need to know. (Maybe something of this extent can be added to the policy that Scott is writing?) George, you often talk about how lousy the LUAU operation is, and stated a couple of times about your CLUE group in Denver. So why don't you become a part of the solution by telling us how CLUE runs their group? Let's learn by example experience. I remember Warren mentioning that the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group had an interesting list policy worth looking at: http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - quite true elayne Joe Linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I agree fully with you, but I guess at this point I see this as problem where a single individual is enforcing policy where no policy exists. Now you can ask is the problem do to a lack of policy or an individual who makes up policy on the spot, with little thought as he goes along. Since I was at the brunt of this in the past, I guess I can admit that a certain amount of bad blood is coming out now as I see the same thing happening to others that happened in the past to me. An yes, I agree this is definitely not in the interest of actually building and open source community. I would like to point out that I'm also a member of the CLUE group in Denver, and there are is virtually no equivalent problem.
Re: [luau] List Policy
I think SVLUG policy was mentioned by Gary Sublett, who later quit the list in protest because he was completely offended by commercial posts. On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 17:50, Elayne Man wrote: Let's learn by example experience. I remember Warren mentioning that the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group had an interesting list policy worth looking at: http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - quite true elayne
Re: [luau] List Policy
I agree fully with you, but I guess at this point I see this as problem where a single individual is enforcing policy where no policy exists. Now you can ask is the problem do to a lack of policy or an individual who makes up policy on the spot, with little thought as he goes along. Since I was at the brunt of this in the past, I guess I can admit that a certain amount of bad blood is coming out now as I see the same thing happening to others that happened in the past to me. An yes, I agree this is definitely not in the interest of actually building and open source community. I would like to point out that I'm also a member of the CLUE group in Denver, and there are is virtually no equivalent problem. Dustin Cross wrote: Aloha, Come on guys, this has been blown WAY out of proportion! This was someone asking for help. The second guy said he heard about linux from the CompUSA thing and wanted help. This list used to be about helping people and not chastising them for asking for help! It is okay to give someone free help, but insulting if they offer to pay a little money? This list used to be about talking about open source and helping each other learn new things about open source, no matter if they are newbies or geeks who have been using Unix since it only ran on a PDP-11. I think we need to calm down a little, this is supposed to be about building the open source community in Hawaii, isn't it? Dusty
Re: [luau] List Policy
If you know this, how come you immediately pounce on someone for "spamming" when it's obvious in the first place that they are not Linux users? I do know I dropped Oceanic Road Runner in favor of Oceanic Earthlink for the very reason that the "SMTP" server was stalling out and we were having difficulty sending outbound mail on actually both Linux and Windows. Warren Togami wrote: On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 17:28, al plant wrote: At last a reasonable voice. I believe the person was only asking forhelp too. By the way there are some people on this list who send two or three mailpostings each time they make a comment. I don't think it is intentionalor spam. In fact it has been discussed a couple of times in the past.Maybe something in our sign up mail program is doing this. Many of the multiple postings are the fault of Outlook Express, where insome cases if you click "Send" but the SMTP server is stalling, itsometimes sends it multiple times. I don't recall seeing any othermailers do this.___LUAU mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
Interestingly since I switched to Earthlink Cable, (through Oceanic) I have been getting no spam, but on my old RR account which for some reason is still active, the only thing I get is SPAM. Another benefit of Earthlink is that you get nation wide dial up included with the Hawaii cable modem price. So it has worked out well. Dustin Cross wrote But hey, this is just the opinion of someone who gets well over 100 SPAM e- mails per day, not to mention the 100 or so messages I get from lists I subscribe to. There is a down side to having the same e-mail address for seven years. Dusty
Re: [luau] List Policy
It seems to me, you should be the last person worried about being personally affected by SPAM. Warren Togami wrote: I personally trust that a combination of the three works very well after configuration. I have something like 99.99% effective spam filtering now, with no false positives for several weeks. (I read through my entire SPAM folder periodically, just to make sure.) Warren
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 03:18, Joe Linux wrote: It seems to me, you should be the last person worried about being personally affected by SPAM. Yes, and now you're going on my blacklist. I can't stand you.
Re: [luau] List Policy
Warren Togami wrote: Many of the multiple postings are the fault of Outlook Express, where in some cases if you click Send but the SMTP server is stalling, it sometimes sends it multiple times. I don't recall seeing any other mailers do this. ### Thanks for the clarification. I only email from Linux and FreeBSD boxes so I hope I don't contribute to the multiple postings. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX Caldera Linux 2.4 RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
Re: [luau] List Policy
For a while, USC was on certain lists for opening their mail servers or accidentally opening them to relay. -Eric Hattemer On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 22:07, Warren Togami wrote: . not. While pattern matching is subject to occasional errors, blacklists and Vipul's Razor should NEVER have a false positive, you may consider using those two instead. .. Warren ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
I do have to say that Warren has a point. 8 Posts in a row all about the same subject. It would be appreciated if you could generally combine your posts into fewer. This isn't a threaded forum. -Eric Hattemer On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 06:18, Joe Linux wrote: It seems to me, you should be the last person worried about being personally affected by SPAM. Warren Togami wrote: I personally trust that a combination of the three works very well after configuration. I have something like 99.99% effective spam filtering now, with no false positives for several weeks. (I read through my entire SPAM folder periodically, just to make sure.) Warren ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
Then frankly, it is the fault of the administrator there, but the nice thing about SpamAssassin with conservative settings is that you probably wont be marked as spam if ONLY you are on an open relay blacklist, because it combines several other methods in determining a spam score. Open Relay alone will only make your score perhaps 33% to the threshold point. - Original Message - From: Eric Hattemer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [luau] List Policy For a while, USC was on certain lists for opening their mail servers or accidentally opening them to relay. -Eric Hattemer On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 22:07, Warren Togami wrote: .. not. While pattern matching is subject to occasional errors, blacklists and Vipul's Razor should NEVER have a false positive, you may consider using those two instead. ... Warren
RE: [luau] List Policy
I don't feel it's insulting, people post to the list all the time whether being newbies or not asking for help, (I'm one of them!) offering nothing in return (I would try to help if I could but I feel that my help would cause more problems than solutions which is why I signed up to learn!). But he's offering compensation for their time since he doesn't want to learn Linux and has a Dentist practice to run instead. But isn't this what we want as whole, more people using open source? I feel that if the group can pitch Open Source to businesses as a viable alternative, it wouldn't make sense to discourage them from asking for help here. I understand that this is a user group but what about the idea of the Back Office Linux Server? Isn't that so that people can switch to Open Source without having to notice the effects on their desktops? I know it would be nice to get everyone to be a competent desktop Linux user, but if you can get more people using it behind the scenes even if they don't learn it, isn't that at least one victory for Open Source? From that point, if they know that their servers run Linux even if they don't use it themselves, and that they realize that they are saving money on proprietary licenses and that it works and works well, wouldn't they be more likely to look at Linux as a viable alternative for their everyday use? Especially when they have to upgrade and look at the cost of closed software? Just my .02, -Todd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of linuxdan Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [luau] List Policy I agree with what you depict as Spam. I believe in most situations like the starving students declaration, people are looking for a cheap way to get someone to do their dirty work and get free training in the process. I particularly dont like that people would abuse the list by resorting to such tactics just to save a few bucks. Its rather insulting. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
Dusty I agree with what you are saying. I just meant to use the starving students analogy as an example and not to point fingers. Im sure that the gentleman has legitimate questions and needs help. Im just refering to business people who could donate equipment or resources to help the needs of Opensource movement like MPLUG. If it were not for the time, money and effort this group puts out in order to educate individuals like this gentleman and others, there wouldnt be an Opensource movement. Then people wouldnt know all the benefits of Opensource. Aloha, Come on guys, this has been blown WAY out of proportion! This was someone asking for help. The second guy said he heard about linux from the CompUSA thing and wanted help. This list used to be about helping people and not chastising them for asking for help! It is okay to give someone free help, but insulting if they offer to pay a little money? This list used to be about talking about open source and helping each other learn new things about open source, no matter if they are newbies or geeks who have been using Unix since it only ran on a PDP-11. I think we need to calm down a little, this is supposed to be about building the open source community in Hawaii, isn't it? Dusty I agree with what you depict as Spam. I believe in most situations like the starving students declaration, people are looking for a cheap way to get someone to do their dirty work and get free training in the process. I particularly dont like that people would abuse the list by resorting to such tactics just to save a few bucks. Its rather insulting. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
Dustin Cross wrote: Aloha, Come on guys, this has been blown WAY out of proportion! This was someone asking for help. The second guy said he heard about linux from the CompUSA thing and wanted help. This list used to be about helping people and not chastising them for asking for help! It is okay to give someone free help, but insulting if they offer to pay a little money? This list used to be about talking about open source and helping each other learn new things about open source, no matter if they are newbies or geeks who have been using Unix since it only ran on a PDP-11. I think we need to calm down a little, this is supposed to be about building the open source community in Hawaii, isn't it? Dusty Mahalo Dusty, At last a reasonable voice. I believe the person was only asking for help too. By the way there are some people on this list who send two or three mail postings each time they make a comment. I don't think it is intentional or spam. In fact it has been discussed a couple of times in the past. Maybe something in our sign up mail program is doing this. Maybe Ray or some one familiar with the mail to the list program could source the problem. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX Caldera Linux 2.4 RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
Re: [luau] List Policy
Aloha, I think SPAM is pretty obvious. Someone sending e-mail about joining thier porn site or send them $50 for their get rich quick program, that is SPAM. A user asking for help with open source, no matter if they are a home user or an individual looking to pay someone to help them set up their business with open source is not SPAM. Someone that advertises for their new opensource friendly ISP or training facility is in the gray area, but so long as they don't over do it, it should be considered a problem. But hey, this is just the opinion of someone who gets well over 100 SPAM e- mails per day, not to mention the 100 or so messages I get from lists I subscribe to. There is a down side to having the same e-mail address for seven years. Dusty
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 17:28, al plant wrote: At last a reasonable voice. I believe the person was only asking for help too. By the way there are some people on this list who send two or three mail postings each time they make a comment. I don't think it is intentional or spam. In fact it has been discussed a couple of times in the past. Maybe something in our sign up mail program is doing this. Many of the multiple postings are the fault of Outlook Express, where in some cases if you click Send but the SMTP server is stalling, it sometimes sends it multiple times. I don't recall seeing any other mailers do this.
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 18:07, Dustin Cross wrote: A user asking for help with open source, no matter if they are a home user or an individual looking to pay someone to help them set up their business with open source is not SPAM. Someone that advertises for their new opensource friendly ISP or training facility is in the gray area, but so long as they don't over do it, it should be considered a problem. I am in total agreement here. But hey, this is just the opinion of someone who gets well over 100 SPAM e- mails per day, not to mention the 100 or so messages I get from lists I subscribe to. There is a down side to having the same e-mail address for seven years. Dusty What MDA do you use for mail delivery? You may want to consider SpamAssassin for spam filtering. It does a very good job of filtering and is very configurable. I use it at home in conjunction with procmail, but it should work fine with other MDA's too. http://www.spamassassin.org Warren
Re: [luau] List Policy
Warren, This was supposed to say it SHOULDN'T be considered a problem. I use postfix and squirrelmail for everything. I have tried some of the spam filters and they get a little more than half of it, but they also get mail that isn't SPAM some times, so I just deal with it and delete! For a little while I tried sending them all responses saying never to send me mail again, but that took too much work. Dusty Someone that advertises for their new opensource friendly ISP or training facility is in the gray area, but so long as they don't over do it, it should be considered a problem. I am in total agreement here. But hey, this is just the opinion of someone who gets well over 100 SPAM e- mails per day, not to mention the 100 or so messages I get from lists I subscribe to. There is a down side to having the same e-mail address for seven years. Dusty What MDA do you use for mail delivery? You may want to consider SpamAssassin for spam filtering. It does a very good job of filtering and is very configurable. I use it at home in conjunction with procmail, but it should work fine with other MDA's too. http://www.spamassassin.org Warren ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] List Policy
On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 18:50, Dustin Cross wrote: Warren, This was supposed to say it SHOULDN'T be considered a problem. I use postfix and squirrelmail for everything. I have tried some of the spam filters and they get a little more than half of it, but they also get mail that isn't SPAM some times, so I just deal with it and delete! For a little while I tried sending them all responses saying never to send me mail again, but that took too much work. Personally I have run into perhaps 4 false positives with 15,000 SPAM messages caught. Over time I learned more about how SpamAssassin works and adjusted my spam settings to a high spam threshold, meaning the likelihood of false positives is far lower but some spam does make it through the filter. However, when I added Vipul's Razor version 2 to SpamAssassin's checks, that eliminated almost all of these spam leaks too. SpamAssassin makes use of pattern matching, open relay blacklists and Vipul's Razor in calculating the likelihood of a message being spam or not. While pattern matching is subject to occasional errors, blacklists and Vipul's Razor should NEVER have a false positive, you may consider using those two instead. I personally trust that a combination of the three works very well after configuration. I have something like 99.99% effective spam filtering now, with no false positives for several weeks. (I read through my entire SPAM folder periodically, just to make sure.) Warren
