Re: Arto: Carbon fiber strings
Do not not forget the enormous proliferation in the 18th centyry of ARCHCITTERNS as well, and some of them were called archlutes. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv UMI Research Press Ann Arbor Michigan by Tharald Borgir, it is stated that the archlute increased in popularity after about 1680 because of the introduction of wound strings which it louder and, as it was more agile than the theorbo, more practical for continuo. cheers, Interesting information. Does he give any evidence for this opinion? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
AR e-mail?
Does anyone know if luthier Andrew Rutherford has an e-mail address, and if yes, what it is? Sorry to bother you all with this, but I'm away from my directories today. Thanks in advance, Eric Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Dear Carlos and All: If you think about it for a moment, fascism, not Islamic militance, is what most accurately defines the Iraq insurgency, as well as Saddam's regime and that of Syria (and others). Most fascist states emerge in lands without much tradition in democracy, where the leaders have a tenuous hold on power and public support, and where religion, nationalism and militarism are combined in a volatile stew. Mobs of idealistic young men are mobilized to crush attempts at democratization, often in the name of national, ethnic, or religious purity. It's OK to say the U.S. government is leaning toward fascism -- with lowered standards for civil and human rights, cronyism, and militarism -- because after all, a mob of young Republicans tried to stop the Florida recount and another mob banged on the windows of a Minnesota newspaper for daring to public poll results showing Kerry ahead. But to say the U.S. government meets all of the definitions of fascism is more of an emotional statement than a reasoned one. Yours, Jim carlos flores [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu m cc: Subject: non-lute message 01/27/2005 12:19 PM Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power.. Benito Mussolini It is the sixtieth year anniversarry of the liberation of Auschwitz. People were exterminated there in the name of purity, in the name of order, in the name of cleaning. These concepts of purity, order and cleanness were injected into the masses brains through ideologies of suepriority, self-importance and security. I feel it is our duty to be ever cautious about such mental conditionig repeating itself. For that purpose, for whatever it is worth, here are the basic characteristics of fasism: ...For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible. Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity. 1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia. 2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation. 3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite
AR e-mail thank you
Thanks to all who responded to my request for Andrew Rutherford's e-mail address; I have the information now. Best to you all, Eric Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Re: non-lute message
James wrote: It's OK to say the U.S. government is leaning toward fascism -- with lowered standards for civil and human rights, cronyism, and militarism -- because after all, a mob of young Republicans tried to stop the Florida recount and another mob banged on the windows of a Minnesota newspaper for daring to public poll results showing Kerry ahead. But to say the U.S. government meets all of the definitions of fascism is more of an emotional statement than a reasoned one. All well and good, but let's not forget the young Democrats who have recently been convicted of slashing the tires of Republican party owned vehicles in Wisconsin. Vehicles whose only purpose was to bring people, all people liberal and conservative, to the polls for a fair and honest election. And let's also not forget the current accusations in Washington State and Wisconsin of voter fraud perprated by Democrats. And then there were the Democrats who shot up a Republican HQ in Tennessee and others who vandalized Republican HQs in other states. To say one or the other party alone is guilty of improprieties or even criminal actions is disingenuous at the very least. At the most it is a blatant untruth of the kind perptrated by the liberal biased mainstream media and people like Dan Rather, who, after incontrovertible proof to the contrary still claims the papers he received regarding the Presidents time in the National Guard are genuine and his (impeached) sources unimpeachable. Jim, while I agree with you that fascism best describes the countries you list above more than it does our own, I must take issue with your one sided attacks against the conservatives in this country. It seems as though no amount of proof to the contrary will do anything to end the unabashed and unreasoned hatred for George Bush that so many liberals have. That the Democrat party can still accuse Bush and his cabinet of lying in the face of a total lack of proof while still condoning and covering up the lies of the previous eight years of Bill Clinton is amazing. Since the events of 9/11 it has been clear to many in this country that now is the time for unity among us. And still there are those who resist that unity with all their being soley on the basis of partisan hatred to the detriment of this country's great legacy. But at least America still stands as an example of Democracy. In a truly fascist country the ruling party might visit a Night of the Long Knives against their opponents much as the SA did during Hitler's time. I have faith that won't happen here because at the core of our being we, the American people, the same ones who by clear and undisputed majority elect our leaders, believe in Democracy. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
But at least America still stands as an example of Democracy. In a truly fascist country the ruling party might visit a Night of the Long Knives against their opponents much as the SA did during Hitler's time. I have faith that won't happen here because at the core of our being we, the American people, the same ones who by clear and undisputed majority elect our leaders, believe in Democracy. Regards, Craig Yep. An old dictum says: Every People deserves its Government. And yet another says Peoples learn only by suffering indignities. RT http://polyhymnion.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Dear carlos flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many thanks for your very interesting article! And the timing was good - the memorial day of liberating one of the most horrible concentration camps. In your list there could have been also the tendence to illegal imprisonment camps and using torture. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
non-lute messages
Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Our first defense against fascism is a respect for truth and events as they happened: The Night of the long Knives was an internal purge ordered by Hitler against the S.A. Modern democracy is not based on belief, but reason; it is not a matter of faith, but on the contrary a matter of profound mistrust in power. This is the basis for the separation of legistlative, executive and judicial powers in the West. Clear and undisputed majority was not the case 4 years ago. In fact, one of the big advantages of democracy is that it can survive unclear results and disputation, thanks to the above mentioned separation of powers. Liberals do not hate George Bush, they hate his policies because they feel those policies undermine some of the fundamental principles of democracy. Alain Roman Turovsky wrote: But at least America still stands as an example of Democracy. In a truly fascist country the ruling party might visit a Night of the Long Knives against their opponents much as the SA did during Hitler's time. I have faith that won't happen here because at the core of our being we, the American people, the same ones who by clear and undisputed majority elect our leaders, believe in Democracy. Regards, Craig Yep. An old dictum says: Every People deserves its Government. And yet another says Peoples learn only by suffering indignities. RT http://polyhymnion.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Liberals do not hate George Bush, In fact, it is useless to hate a figurehead, a remote-controlled device (BlueTooth technology). RT -- http://polyhymnion.org/torban To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
But at least America still stands as an example of Democracy. In a truly fascist country the ruling party might visit a Night of the Long Knives against their opponents Yep. A perfect example of SCA historicism RT -- http://polyhymnion.org/torban much as the SA did during Hitler's time. I have faith that won't happen here because at the core of our being we, the American people, the same ones who by clear and undisputed majority elect our leaders, believe in Democracy. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: non-lute messages
Yeah. What Her Highness said! -Original Message- From: Caroline Usher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: non-lute messages Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
We, orange people, don't like them royalty. There is nothing more obnoxious than noblesse du sangue in general. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv Yeah. What Her Highness said! -Original Message- From: Caroline Usher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: non-lute messages Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
sarmaticae antiquae coactae
BTW, if anyone is interested in learning to play in 5/4: the sarmatica count is up to 51, and the last item is in that unusual meter. http://polyhymnion.org/torban/torban4.html Enjoy, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Dear Carlos and All: If you think about it for a moment, fascism, not Islamic militance, is what most accurately defines the Iraq insurgency, Not for long. RT -- http://polyhymnion.org/torban To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, I am reminded of an old children's poem by the great Mayakovsky who wrote in his Zoo: I'll show you a Lion, Here, take a look: No longer a Czar of animals he is just a Chairman. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: sarmaticae antiquae coactae
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: And please, do NOT ever refer to me as the Count of Sarmatia. But the new Queen of Ukraina (prime minister) seems to be a pretty beautiful lady... ;) Congrats... Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
What Caroline means is that the recent outburst of absolutely-non-lute messages sucks. I second that opinion. g On 27.01.2005, at 22:16, Roman Turovsky wrote: Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, I am reminded of an old children's poem by the great Mayakovsky who wrote in his Zoo: I'll show you a Lion, Here, take a look: No longer a Czar of animals he is just a Chairman. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
Hi to all, Personally, I'm more interested in hearing about lute related issues, and I would agree with Caroline's request to stop with the political discussions; however, we should all feel free to talk about what we wish. If it pleases some of you to continue with the obnoxiousness, carry on... Sincerely, James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Not getting it
On 27.01.2005, at 22:16, Roman Turovsky wrote: Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, I am reminded of an old children's poem by the great Mayakovsky who wrote in his Zoo: I'll show you a Lion, Here, take a look: No longer a Czar of animals he is just a Chairman. My title is a SPOOF, Roman. A joke. A running gag. And unlike others who got titles by inheriting them, I EARNED my status. Though I chose my title myself, the LSA Board was pleased to confirm it. As for people having the freedom to talk about whatever they want, sure, go down to the park and stand on a soapbox. This forum exists for discussing the lute. Caroline *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
the winner of an election usually is the least qualified candidate for the job Thomas Am Donnerstag, 27. Januar 2005 20:58 schrieb Roman Turovsky: Every People deserves its Government. And yet another says Peoples learn only by suffering indignities. RT -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Not getting it
Please stop. *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, I am reminded of an old children's poem by the great Mayakovsky who wrote in his Zoo: I'll show you a Lion, Here, take a look: No longer a Czar of animals he is just a Chairman. My title is a SPOOF, Roman. A joke. A running gag. No doubt. Likewise my reaction, FYI. And unlike others who got titles by inheriting them, I EARNED my status. Though I chose my title myself, the LSA Board was pleased to confirm it. That's what all the Bourbons et al. said. As for people having the freedom to talk about whatever they want, sure, go down to the park and stand on a soapbox. This forum exists for discussing the lute. In NYC you need a police permit to stand on a soapbox these days RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: sarmaticae antiquae coactae
And please, do NOT ever refer to me as the Count of Sarmatia. But the new Queen of Ukraina (prime minister) seems to be a pretty beautiful lady... ;) Congrats... Arto Indeed, and THERE WERE AT LEAST 3 LUTENISTS at the barricades. RT http://polyhymnion.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
At 04:01 PM 1/27/2005, Gernot Hilger wrote: What Caroline means is that the recent outburst of absolutely-non-lute messages sucks. I second that opinion. g Here's a third. E To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: sarmaticae antiquae coactae
To some, for sure. Anything could become WMD, in the wrong hands. There are lutenistic terrorists out there. They spread destruction by embarrassment. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv ??? 5/4? Doesn't this count as a non-lute message a WMD for lutes? - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:05 PM Subject: sarmaticae antiquae coactae BTW, if anyone is interested in learning to play in 5/4: the sarmatica count is up to 51, and the last item is in that unusual meter. http://polyhymnion.org/torban/torban4.html Enjoy, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
Motion passed, on the show of hands. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv At 04:01 PM 1/27/2005, Gernot Hilger wrote: What Caroline means is that the recent outburst of absolutely-non-lute messages sucks. I second that opinion. g Here's a third. E To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute message
5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, Not to mention music composition, and lute music composition in particular. RT -- http://polyhymnion.org/torban To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Kremsmuenster pdf
It will be later today at http://freez.1gb.ru/music/masaccio/intavolature/KREMSMU3.PDF RT Hi Roman, I remember that you have talked in the lute-list about the (or some?) Kresmünster mss, that are being spread as pdf. Do you know, where I can get hold of them? Best Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: non-lute messages
A fourth. ed At 04:49 PM 1/27/2005 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: At 04:01 PM 1/27/2005, Gernot Hilger wrote: What Caroline means is that the recent outburst of absolutely-non-lute messages sucks. I second that opinion. g Here's a third. E To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
Baroque Guitar on Ebay
Hi Gang, I'm cleaning house so I can move someplace warm. Baroque guitar by Daniel Larson on ebay. Mint with case. Starting price $600 Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Re: Re: Carbon fiber strings
I answer Gernot, and write to all. Two posters? Conveniently as the non lute topic was so long I reset my email list to subject so I could read the entire thread in sequence. Wow, there next to each other were exact duplicate messages from Rosinfiorino and Carlos Flores. The last time I connected those names was in long messages on some kind of internal imperative, or some such thing resembling the Force from Star Wars. I believe, I believe in that force now. Else how could both Rosin and Carlos have written the exact same words? I'm not much in favor of blocking on a list - I like being told I'm wrong so I can prove I'm right or change my opinion. But I've got to block at least one of these doppelgangers. Best, Jon Hi, you wouldn't believe how low my lutenet traffic is since I recently blocked two posters :-) Email filters are wonderful Best wishes g rosinfiorini wrote: Jon wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Re: Re: Carbon fiber strings
Arto, and all, I think we have been conned, as I mentioned in my message to Gernot. And I am embarrassed that I answered. But I confess to playing a number of instruments and being open to others. What the hell is a LONG VIBRATING TONE. To my mind it is a very large bell in a steeple! Not exactly a musical instrument for melody and harmony. But a good way to set a pitch for the tone deaf. As I understand it, as a new lutenist, one would like the bass tones to last for a measure in order to maintain the polyphony in contrapuntal arrangements. But one doesn't want the bass to overpower the treble, they should be balanced as on performs the divisions on the upper (and conversely the lower) line. I open myself to correction from you all, the experienced lutenists. But I hope those of you who at an earlier stage in my learning thought I knew nothing will accept the question as well intended. BTW, for those who deplored my flat back I'm about a week from finishing the mold for the traditional Renaissance lute I'm making. Then I figure about three months to finish it to the point of stringing - but then there are the adjustments. I commend Music Makers for that cheap flat back kit - without it I would never have come to this magnificent instrument as the entry price would have been too high. When I finish my new lute I'll use the flat back to introduce others to the lute, it should be revived. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: rosinfiorini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: Carbon fiber strings Dear lutenists i'm not talking about the beauty of the bass (whatever that means),=20 what i talk about is the fact that most of us, lute players, preffer a LONGER VIBRATING TONE. I strongly doubt that! Many, perhaps most of us(?), used some time ago the wound pyramid basses. Those modern guitar style strings have very long vibrating tone. And most of us(?) wanted to get rid of long vibrating tones, which made an archlute or theorbo sound like a grand piano played with pedal down... Gut and its modern imitators behave much better. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Not getting it
Oh Caroline, how can you deny the title. I love it. But in order to bestow it I need more facts. A dowager is an inhertor, so the widow of the Emporor is the Dowager Empress. Although that is unusual, as another line normally takes over and denies the heiress. Now then, dowager duchess would work - as that is a continuing title, the son of the late Duke is the Duke, his wife is the Duchess, and his mother the Dowager Duchess. But I'll not be strict with you as to the legitimacy of your title. It is not required that it be correct, just enjoyable. But to me it does imply that you gained the title by the death of the Emporor, and I'm sure you were bestowed by longevity and activity. It is appropriate that we use Royal rather than republican titles on a list devoted to the Renaissance lute, and its ancestors and heirs. And as long as we are doing so I can thing of a way to justify your chosen title. In the Empire of the lute, long gone, there has become a revival of Royalists who love the music. So the Empire is dead, and those of us who preserve it are the heirs of the music. Therefore as senior lady among the pretenders to the throne, you are the Dowager Empress. Best, Jon My title is a SPOOF, Roman. A joke. A running gag. And unlike others who got titles by inheriting them, I EARNED my status. Though I chose my title myself, the LSA Board was pleased to confirm it. As for people having the freedom to talk about whatever they want, sure, go down to the park and stand on a soapbox. This forum exists for discussing the lute. Caroline *** Caroline Usher Dowager Empress, Lute Society of America Please refer all queries to the current President, Dick Hoban [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: sarmaticae antiquae coactae
I suppose some will want to check the sarmaticae with a Geiger counter. RT No, geiger counters only check the random, but very regular, emissions from radioactively decaying material. One would hope that the wonderful rhythms of music won't decay in our lifetimes. Radioactive decay is an aspect of the increase of entropy that is endemic to the universe, the active decays toward the inactive. It is speculated that the total entropy in the universe is tending to a constant - but with local resistance (such as the ordering of a local society by mankind). To that concept I contratulate the lutenist. As modern music approaches the disorganization of an entropic state (the rock group that knows three chords, but keeps it simple by only playing two) the lutenists hold the line against the trend, and maintain that resistance, by playing music. Let us be happy to be a major force reacting against the massive trend of the universe. (Wow, I almost sound new age, but that is actually real physics, with a bit of tongue in cheek). We don't need no stinking metronomes! But I still have trouble with 5/4. Easier to play it from the sound than the count. Best, Jon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
