Re: Mudarra's bordon
Dear Michael, Italian tab is indeed learnable. I put it off for 20 years and then lived it with it exclusively for a week and found it no biggy. I started with single line pieces such as Francesco's canon and then worked my way into dances w/ simple bass lines and then on to the ricercares. Eventually I saw all the same patterns I remembered from French tab and it just fell into place. The Capirola book is one of the finest sources of late 15th cent lute music. Some of Josquin's, Agricola's and Brumel's fine motets are there and intabulated very well. Some of the biggest hits of the 15th century are also found there: Ales Regrets and Nunquam fuit as well as a few popular current songs and the dances you mentioned. It's a wonderfully alive period of music and Capirola reflects this nicely. There are so few mistakes and it is written so clearly that a modern edition is superfluous --and you probably won't get all the cool and humorous pictures! I remember seeing Jacob Heringmann give his Josquin concert and he simply played from the facsimile. If you were interested in further notes about it then I would second Denys' suggestion of the Otto Gombosi book which should be available in any decent college music library. Btw, Capirola's introduction is translated at Federico Marincola's Lutebot site: http://www.marincola.com/lutebot1.txt On the 4th course octave question. With a little practice and focus you can either accentuate or downplay the octave jangle as you see fit with either fingers or thumb. It's more a question of attack. Good luck, Sean On May 30, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Michael Thames wrote: >> Dear Michael, >> I understand why you are confused now! >> You are not looking at the original. > > Denys and Leonard, > Thanks for the info. I can see now why I was confused. > > I've always been afraid of Italian tab. However, considering that 90% > of > the ren. lute music I play is early Italian perhaps I should make a > effort > to read Italian Tab? > > Just in case.Has anyone produced a good reliable edition of > Dalsa, > Spinacino, and Capriola in French Tab. for 6 course lute? > > I was at a Master class with Paul Odette, and had just began > playing a > 6 course lute with an octave on the 4th course. I mentioned how > strange it > sounded to me after playing an 8 course with the unison 4th course. > Paul then started to demonstrate many examples of the advantages > of an > octave on the 4th course. One of the examples was the Padoana by > Capriola, > which if I remember correctly he only played the octave at certain > times, of > the fourth course? Is this what is meant as splitting a course? > Denys, thanks for the Dalsa peices I love this stuff! > > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > - Original Message - > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lute net" > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > >> Dear Michael, >> I understand why you are confused now! >> You are not looking at the original. >> >> I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself >> and think that they are extremely valuable - the >> "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music >> available that would be very hard and expensive to collect >> in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume >> some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute - >> this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course >> instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely >> unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known >> in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated >> that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course >> detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute. >> The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course >> lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses >> and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally." >> >> Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute >> it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th. >> The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted >> and replaced by the open 7th. >> >> There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition >> I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla >> Venetiana) >> by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of > "splitting" >> (i.e. dividing) >> the third course into its two component strings and playing different >> notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes >> and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an >> attempt >> to bypass the >> problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical >> feature >> from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from >> the >> lute. >> To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the
Re: Mudarra's bordon
>Dear Michael, >I understand why you are confused now! >You are not looking at the original. Denys and Leonard, Thanks for the info. I can see now why I was confused. I've always been afraid of Italian tab. However, considering that 90% of the ren. lute music I play is early Italian perhaps I should make a effort to read Italian Tab? Just in case.Has anyone produced a good reliable edition of Dalsa, Spinacino, and Capriola in French Tab. for 6 course lute? I was at a Master class with Paul Odette, and had just began playing a 6 course lute with an octave on the 4th course. I mentioned how strange it sounded to me after playing an 8 course with the unison 4th course. Paul then started to demonstrate many examples of the advantages of an octave on the 4th course. One of the examples was the Padoana by Capriola, which if I remember correctly he only played the octave at certain times, of the fourth course? Is this what is meant as splitting a course? Denys, thanks for the Dalsa peices I love this stuff! Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute net" Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:39 AM Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > Dear Michael, > I understand why you are confused now! > You are not looking at the original. > > I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself > and think that they are extremely valuable - the > "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music > available that would be very hard and expensive to collect > in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume > some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute - > this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course > instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely > unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known > in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated > that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course > detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute. > The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course > lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses > and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally." > > Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute > it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th. > The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted > and replaced by the open 7th. > > There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition > I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla Venetiana) > by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of "splitting" > (i.e. dividing) > the third course into its two component strings and playing different > notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes > and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an attempt > to bypass the > problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical feature > from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the > lute. > To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola manuscript > or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. > > If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music > than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro Quarto" > published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few typographical > errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. > I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. > > Best wishes, > > Denys > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > >Dear Michael, > > >Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > >courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > >folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > >are included at the beginning of the piece. > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > >Denys > > > >Thanks Denys, > > I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book would > > you recommend? > >I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was > > considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots of > > Dalsa. > >However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. > > The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th > course > > but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be 2 > > different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? > > > > Michael Thames > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > - Original Message - > > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "lute net" > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > Dear Michae
Re: Mudarra's bordon - now Capirola
The best way to handle non standard tablature features is to write your own program. I find myself hacking in features quite often. The problem is that sometimes the features have to be taken out later. http://www3.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?Capirola/Capirola_Padoana.pdf Wayne > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > Dear Leonard, > Thanks for that information - it's good to know > about that edition. I wonder if he has a tab program > that can handle the split course? I often find myself > trying to reproduce features from non-standard early > tablature that break the rules. I seem to remember > getting stuck on trying to reproduce unmeasured > tablature as the programs don't like not to have bar lines! > > Best wishes, > > Denys > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Leonard Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Lute List" > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > On 5/30/05 7:39 AM, "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Denys and Michael-- > > Miles Dempster's complete edition of Capirola successfully notates > > the split third course. Interesting effect. It's possible to rewrite the > > tablature to play all the necessary notes without splitting, but the > > acoustic effect is not the same. > > > > Leonard Williams > > > > > > > There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition > > > I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla > Venetiana) > > > by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of > "splitting" > > > (i.e. dividing) > > > the third course into its two component strings and playing different > > > notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes > > > and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an > attempt > > > to bypass the > > > problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical > feature > > > from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the > > > lute. > > > To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola > manuscript > > > or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. > > > > > > If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music > > > than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro > Quarto" > > > published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few > typographical > > > errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. > > > I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM > > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Michael, > > >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. > > >> > > >>> Best wishes, > > >> > > >>> Denys > > >> > > >>Thanks Denys, > > >> I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book > would > > >> you recommend? > > >>I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was > > >> considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots > of > > >> Dalsa. > > >>However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. > > >> The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th > > > course > > >> but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be > 2 > > >> different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? > > >> > > >> Michael Thames > > >> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > >> - Original Message - > > >> From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: "lute net" > > >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM > > >> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > >> > > >> > > >>> Dear Michael, > > >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. > > >>> > > >>> Best wishes, > > >>> > > >>> Denys > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> - Original Message - > > >>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM > > >>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > >>> > > >>> > > > Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the > >Capirola > > >>> lute > > > book. > > > > > Kenneth Be > > > > Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can see > > > in > > >>> for > > instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but what > > >>> about > >
Re: Pasquini - bezifferten Bassen?
> Hi to all, > > I have an edition from Verlag Doblinger of a Sonata in D minor by Bernardo > Pasquini (1637-1710) arranged for two guitars. Under Pasquini's name it says: > Nach zwei bezifferten Bassen. I'm wondering what instrument that might be? > The music is quite pleasant and worthwhile. I'm thinking maybe it was for > mandora? Both parts are in two voices primarily, and the writing doesn't seem > to be idiomatic for gamba or cello, for instance. > > Thanks, > > James These "sonatas" (2 figured bass lines) are essentially exercises in improvisation for 2 keyboards. They don't hold much interest musically by themselves, but one might be tempted to try to do something with them. Pasquini was a keyboard virtuoso, but rather limited as a composer, a bit like Kapsberger. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Pasquini - bezifferten Bassen?
Hi to all, I have an edition from Verlag Doblinger of a Sonata in D minor by Bernardo Pasquini (1637-1710) arranged for two guitars. Under Pasquini's name it says: Nach zwei bezifferten Bassen. I'm wondering what instrument that might be? The music is quite pleasant and worthwhile. I'm thinking maybe it was for mandora? Both parts are in two voices primarily, and the writing doesn't seem to be idiomatic for gamba or cello, for instance. Thanks, James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Mudarra's bordon
Dear Leonard, Thanks for that information - it's good to know about that edition. I wonder if he has a tab program that can handle the split course? I often find myself trying to reproduce features from non-standard early tablature that break the rules. I seem to remember getting stuck on trying to reproduce unmeasured tablature as the programs don't like not to have bar lines! Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: "Leonard Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > On 5/30/05 7:39 AM, "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Denys and Michael-- > Miles Dempster's complete edition of Capirola successfully notates > the split third course. Interesting effect. It's possible to rewrite the > tablature to play all the necessary notes without splitting, but the > acoustic effect is not the same. > > Leonard Williams > > > > There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition > > I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla Venetiana) > > by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of "splitting" > > (i.e. dividing) > > the third course into its two component strings and playing different > > notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes > > and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an attempt > > to bypass the > > problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical feature > > from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the > > lute. > > To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola manuscript > > or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. > > > > If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music > > than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro Quarto" > > published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few typographical > > errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. > > I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > >>> Dear Michael, > >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions > >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. > >> > >>> Best wishes, > >> > >>> Denys > >> > >>Thanks Denys, > >> I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book would > >> you recommend? > >>I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was > >> considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots of > >> Dalsa. > >>However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. > >> The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th > > course > >> but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be 2 > >> different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? > >> > >> Michael Thames > >> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "lute net" > >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM > >> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > >> > >> > >>> Dear Michael, > >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions > >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. > >>> > >>> Best wishes, > >>> > >>> Denys > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - Original Message - > >>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM > >>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > >>> > >>> > > Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the >Capirola > >>> lute > > book. > > > Kenneth Be > > Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can see > > in > >>> for > instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but what > >>> about > a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th course > >>> down > a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses as > >> well? > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning the > >> 6th > > course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us. > >
Re: CD reviews
Hello José Luis, I don't know of any. But maybe you can get a copy in germany from his record company (which is german) you can get a copy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] best wishes Thomas Am Montag, 30. Mai 2005 22:30 schrieben Sie: > Hello Thomas, > Some store on line in Europe? > Best wishes, > Jose Luis > > Thomas Schall escribió: > -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch?" To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: CD reviews
Hello Thomas, Some store on line in Europe? Best wishes, Jose Luis Thomas Schall escribió: >Dear list, > >here comes a review of two fantastic CDs of the neglected repertoire for the >baroque lute: The galant lute concertos! > >After impressingly exploring the world of the romantic guitar on his CD with >music by Napoleon Coste (who BTW has his 200th anniversary/birthday this >year) John Schneiderman now turns his interest to the lute concertos of Karl >Kohaut and Johann Kropfganss. > >John Schneiderman and his Ensemble "Galanterie" ( Elizabeth Blumenstock - >violin, William Skeen - violoncello, on the Kohaut-CD supported by Lisa >Weiss - violin ) demonstrate a sensible and well-informed approach to the >galant pieces with just the right amount of virtuosity necessary to perform >music of this period. >The only issue I found not perfectly solved is (like on most CDs of that >repertoire) that the lute seems to be leveled down. I never have had the >feeling (be it playing or listening that kind of music) the lute would be so >silent. Anyway you'll hear the lute and it's present enough (better than on >Hoppy's CD to tell an example). > >For my taste "must-have"-CDs as well for repertoire as for performance, not >just for lovers of the baroque lute but also for everyone who enjoys late >baroque music. > >Both CDs have a tastefull designed cover (I mention this because they remind >me on the covers of my own CDs :-)) and come with very informative liner >notes by Tim Crawford (in english and greman). > >You'll find ordering information on >http://www.johnschneiderman.com/conOrder.htm > >If I understand correctly the price of each CD will be $15. > >1.) Lute Concertos - Lauten Konzerte >Karl Kohaut >Edition Günter Hänssler, PH05018 >2.) Lute Concertos - Lauten Konzerte >Johann Kropfgans >Edition Günter Hänssler, PH05012 > >BTW: Those of you who like the romantic guitar will love his Coste-CD, too. > >All the best >Thomas >- >Thomas Schall >Niederhofheimer Weg 3 >D-65843 Sulzbach >06196/74519 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >"Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. >Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch?" > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > --
Re: Review: The Lute Calendar
I mostely agree to your points - although I haven't had problems reading it and didn't found omited fingering a problem and "level of difficulty" is a topic on it's own. Actually I thought Stefan would have found just the right compromise of adding fingerings on tricky passages but not getting the edition unreadable bacause of too many editorial additions (like fingerings, tenuto signs etc.). The latter BTW surely helped in my case to read the unused font (I guess he used Sibelius). I would recommend the edition not just to most but to *all* amateurs and teachers :-) - $99, € 75.00, £ 50.00 isn't much for the large amount of music which you'll get for it. Best wishes Thomas Am Montag, 30. Mai 2005 21:30 schrieb Daniel Shoskes: > I mostly agree. For me the pluses and minuses: > > 1) Very well put together collection, which as you say lays flat and > has no page turns > 2) Clearly states for every piece the minimum number of courses and > tuning of the base courses > but > 3) font used is not the most readable. At a distance I often confuse > the a's and the d's > 4) Occasional questionable attribution (I noticed a cutting galliard > attributed to somebody else; maybe there is disagreement in the > primary sources) > 5) Some pieces side by side vary quite a bit in difficulty. Not an > issue for the advanced player but the beginner-intermediate may struggle > 6) Since at its heart it is a book for the student, at least a few > right hand fingerings for sections that are difficult and could be > approached several different ways would have helped. > > Overall I am very pleased and recommend the edition to most amateurs > and teachers. > > DS -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch?" To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
CD reviews
Dear list, here comes a review of two fantastic CDs of the neglected repertoire for the baroque lute: The galant lute concertos! After impressingly exploring the world of the romantic guitar on his CD with music by Napoleon Coste (who BTW has his 200th anniversary/birthday this year) John Schneiderman now turns his interest to the lute concertos of Karl Kohaut and Johann Kropfganss. John Schneiderman and his Ensemble "Galanterie" ( Elizabeth Blumenstock - violin, William Skeen - violoncello, on the Kohaut-CD supported by Lisa Weiss - violin ) demonstrate a sensible and well-informed approach to the galant pieces with just the right amount of virtuosity necessary to perform music of this period. The only issue I found not perfectly solved is (like on most CDs of that repertoire) that the lute seems to be leveled down. I never have had the feeling (be it playing or listening that kind of music) the lute would be so silent. Anyway you'll hear the lute and it's present enough (better than on Hoppy's CD to tell an example). For my taste "must-have"-CDs as well for repertoire as for performance, not just for lovers of the baroque lute but also for everyone who enjoys late baroque music. Both CDs have a tastefull designed cover (I mention this because they remind me on the covers of my own CDs :-)) and come with very informative liner notes by Tim Crawford (in english and greman). You'll find ordering information on http://www.johnschneiderman.com/conOrder.htm If I understand correctly the price of each CD will be $15. 1.) Lute Concertos - Lauten Konzerte Karl Kohaut Edition Günter Hänssler, PH05018 2.) Lute Concertos - Lauten Konzerte Johann Kropfgans Edition Günter Hänssler, PH05012 BTW: Those of you who like the romantic guitar will love his Coste-CD, too. All the best Thomas - Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch?" To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Review: The Lute Calendar
I mostly agree. For me the pluses and minuses: 1) Very well put together collection, which as you say lays flat and has no page turns 2) Clearly states for every piece the minimum number of courses and tuning of the base courses but 3) font used is not the most readable. At a distance I often confuse the a's and the d's 4) Occasional questionable attribution (I noticed a cutting galliard attributed to somebody else; maybe there is disagreement in the primary sources) 5) Some pieces side by side vary quite a bit in difficulty. Not an issue for the advanced player but the beginner-intermediate may struggle 6) Since at its heart it is a book for the student, at least a few right hand fingerings for sections that are difficult and could be approached several different ways would have helped. Overall I am very pleased and recommend the edition to most amateurs and teachers. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Review: The Lute Calendar
Dear list, a while ago I received the "Winter" of Stefan Lundgren's new collection of music for the renaissance lute, the "Lute Calendar". In the meantime I played through the book several times and found the music not hard to play. Very nicely set (although I regret that Stefan doesn't use the typographical ability so typical for his earlier editions and uses a typesetting program instead). It has no page turns and spiral binding which makes it easy to handle. Stefan gives many fingerings which help to solve trickier parts. Also worth to name are the illustrations which were done by Hendrike Bröse Lundgren. I haven't had problems playing all of the music sightreading which would make an average difficulty level of easy to lesser intermediate. Stefan has collected for this work music from the earliest beginnings of printed lute music up to the board lute book (ca. 1620/30). Sources/composers are Hans Newsidler, from the Petrucci prints, Chilesotti, Ortiz, Dowland, Mertel, Francisque, Dalza, Cutting, J. Johnson and many anonymous pieces. The required lute is from the 6- to 10-course variant. All of the music is well-choosen and invites to toy with the music and the sound quality of your lute and shows a wide range of the repertoire for the lute with a certain focus on the english repertoire. Stefan tells in his foreword that he would omit ornament signs, right-hand fingering (he gives a general instruction instead) and holding lines. This is not a big loss as general rules are given in the forword and possibly help to develop taste and feeling for the music and help to keep the tabulatre legible. I was more sceptical regarding the omission of tones to get the music easier but I haven't found anything which would have seriously disturbed me. In short: I think this extensive edition is a well-done collection of interesting repertoire which provides the pupil with nice material to study and the advanced player with plenty of music to enjoy and to experiement with. orders can be made at Stefan's homepage http://www.luteonline.de/lundgren-edition/calendar.htm or by sending a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] price is Until 1.12.2005: $ 99.00 / € 75.00 / £ 50.00 Thereafter: $ 130.00 / € 99.00 / £ 66.00 Postage and packing are free for surface mail! For airmail add € 3.00 / $ 4.00 for Europe and € 15.00 / $ 19.50 for other countries. What I think is greatest fun is to toy with the contained pieces by Ortiz - actually more patterns than real pieces which invite to improvisation/duet playing. How about a small competition: Make your version of a recercada by Ortiz. I would post it on my site and after while we could vote for the "best" version? all the best Thomas -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch?" To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Mudarra's bordon
On 5/30/05 7:39 AM, "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Denys and Michael-- Miles Dempster's complete edition of Capirola successfully notates the split third course. Interesting effect. It's possible to rewrite the tablature to play all the necessary notes without splitting, but the acoustic effect is not the same. Leonard Williams > There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition > I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla Venetiana) > by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of "splitting" > (i.e. dividing) > the third course into its two component strings and playing different > notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes > and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an attempt > to bypass the > problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical feature > from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the > lute. > To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola manuscript > or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. > > If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music > than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro Quarto" > published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few typographical > errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. > I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. > > Best wishes, > > Denys > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > >>> Dear Michael, >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. >> >>> Best wishes, >> >>> Denys >> >>Thanks Denys, >> I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book would >> you recommend? >>I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was >> considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots of >> Dalsa. >>However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. >> The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th > course >> but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be 2 >> different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? >> >> Michael Thames >> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >> - Original Message - >> From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "lute net" >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM >> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon >> >> >>> Dear Michael, >>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth >>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see >>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions >>> are included at the beginning of the piece. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Denys >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon >>> >>> > Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the >Capirola >>> lute > book. > Kenneth Be Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can see > in >>> for instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but what >>> about a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th course >>> down a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses as >> well? Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning the >> 6th > course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us. > > Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the Capirola >>> lute > book. > > Kenneth Be > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
Re: Mudarra's bordon
Dear Michael, I understand why you are confused now! You are not looking at the original. I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself and think that they are extremely valuable - the "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music available that would be very hard and expensive to collect in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute - this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute. The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally." Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th. The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted and replaced by the open 7th. There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla Venetiana) by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of "splitting" (i.e. dividing) the third course into its two component strings and playing different notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an attempt to bypass the problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical feature from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the lute. To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola manuscript or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro Quarto" published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few typographical errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > >Dear Michael, > >Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > >courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > >folio 27v of his book where the instructions > >are included at the beginning of the piece. > > >Best wishes, > > >Denys > >Thanks Denys, > I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book would > you recommend? >I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was > considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots of > Dalsa. >However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. > The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th course > but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be 2 > different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? > > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > - Original Message - > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lute net" > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > Dear Michael, > > Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > are included at the beginning of the piece. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > >Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the >Capirola > > lute > > > >book. > > > > > > >Kenneth Be > > > > > >Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can see in > > for > > > instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but what > > about > > > a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th course > > down > > > a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses as > well? > > > Michael Thames > > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > > - Original Message - > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM > > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning the > 6th > > > > course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us. > > > > > > > > Plenty of exampl
Re: Mudarra's bordon
There are lots of examples, as Kenneth says.
Phalese has 4 (!) in his Livre III 1547 publication, (the one edited
by Teghi) "Descendat bassus uno tono (maior neruus)"
Berberis 1549
The famous "Italiana" attributed (mistakenly?) to Galilei, has its
equivalents in some Branles in Besards Thesaurus 1603. This ostinato
pattern must be quite ancient, and very well suited for dances.
Praetorius included a version as late as 1612 in his edition of french
dances "Terpsichore", very similar to "Italiana" and found in a 70's
guitar version, (highest notes missing, see below).
Cf.Lengthy entries in Lute Archives
Poulton, "A tutor for the renaissance lute, chapter 7 Diapasons.
*
-t
-f
{Praetorius/Volta}
b
2 d a
xa
xc a
xd
xf
xh
1.fa
2d
1c a
b
xfa
xdf
xa a
1ca
xa
x a
b
2 d a
xa
xc a
xd
xf
xh
1.fa
2d
1c a
b
1.a a
2 d c
1a e
1 d a
xa
x a
x
