[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Edward Martin]

Dear Stewart,

I am very interested in this.  Is it available in the USA?

ed


At 01:26 AM 10/9/2005 +0100, Stewart McCoy wrote:
>Jon Banks has made a CD recording with the group Sirinu, in which
>about a third of the music consists of lute trios from this period.
>I can supply details if you want.



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202




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[LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)

[Derek Monahan]

I think it's also possible to have nails, but play the
lute with the flesh. If you position your hand the
right way you can attack with pretty much just your
flesh. I started on some lute over the summer and have
gotten a pretty decent sound this way.

--- EUGENE BRAIG IV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> - Original Message -
> From: bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Saturday, October 8, 2005 4:26 am
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to
> Free Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)
> 
> > perhaps collective wisdom will instruct new boy on
> the
> > proper method of trimming his fingernails.
> 
> If he intends to use them, he shouldn't trim them at
> all, but should file them with relatively fine emery
> boards and cosmetic nail buffers.  I keep relatively
> short nails for use on modern guitar, but favor less
> nail on early strings, so my nails (at least p, i,
> and m) are strongly tapered down on the attack side.
>  I would do the same on a and c, but my a and c
> nails have a rather strong curl that is not
> conducive to the shape.  For something similar, you
> can see Scott Tennant's _Pumping_Nylon_.
> 
> Eugene
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 



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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Nancy Carlin]

Doug lives in the Boston area. I heard a rumor he will be teaching at the 
LSA Lute Fest next Summer in Cleveland.
Nancy Carlin

> >Hi folks,
> >
> >Are there any tutors for learning continuo on the theorbo?
>
>Hi Dennis,
>
>Nigel's books has already been mentioned as a definitive source for study.
>But if you're looking for a teacher I can recommend Doug Freundlich.
>Trouble is I don't know where either you or he lives so that may be a moot
>point. I want to say Doug is in the Chicago area. Someone else can probably
>correct me. Barring getting Nigel's book, which I highly recommend, seeking
>out a teacher in your area is the best thing to do.
>
>Regards,
>Craig
>
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Nancy Carlin Associates
P.O. Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524  USA
phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582
web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com

Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org

--

[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Sean Smith]

Dear Stewart,

You're right about the tablature being a speed bump to the 
interpretation of this music. Tab's strength is in bringing many lines 
together with a predetermined key added to a trust that the intabulator 
knows what they are doing. It's often a toss up in difficult spots 
which voice to bring out, lose and hope that the player understands the 
intention. Spinacino becomes a lot more understandable when the 
original lines are understood. Since most of his intabulations are in 
the various Odhecatons and Motteti (also by Petrucci) one might assume 
that the Spinacino players had a passing understanding of the 
architecture of the pieces.

A good example is the Tandernaken. There are the Spinacino and 
Newsidler versions that are distant echoes of the how the piece 
developed over the 40 or 50 years after its first appearances. 
(Strangely enough, the most lute friendly-version is from an organ book 
in the Amerbach collection.) It was definitely conceived as an ensemble 
piece and the Segovia boldly brings out its creative  possibilities. In 
the hands of imaginative players this may have changed from performance 
to performance. Imagine all the versions that have not come down to us!

In interpreting the single lines it is often helpful to have a variety 
of lute sizes. This also means that learning to read music 'at-pitch' 
for a 4th up or down lute is helpful too. Though I'm still finding this 
difficult (recorderists seem to find this a breeze!) I find that I 
eventually am looking at intervals rather than pitch names. Often I 
break down and write them with a variety of different 'finals'.

It's also very interesting that barlines seem to have only developed w/ 
tablature--and organ tab, at that. Any guesses why this is so? I would 
think that they would help more in ensemble music.

Jon Banks specifically says: 'I
am therefore proposing that the music on ff.159-198 of the Segovia Codex
was specifically compiled and in some cases composed for lute ensemble.'

Nearly 40 folios of single line lute music! Wow.


Sean



On Oct 8, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote:

> Dear Stuart,
>
> Jon Banks' research into music from the Segovia manuscript is
> extremely interesting. He has published an article in _Early Music_
> about it. I can look up details if you like. He argues that at least
> some of the music in the Segovia manuscript was intended for lutes.
> He refers to things like wide ranges, which preclude wind
> instruments.
>
> This early lute music is often very complex rhythmically, and very
> exciting to play. Much of it requires three lutes, each lute taking
> a single melodic line, just as three wind instruments would. In one
> piece there is a passage where all three lutes have a long series of
> dotted crotchets, but staggered so that they play one quaver out
> from each other. It is tempting to create your own dotted crotchet
> pulse here, but if you do, you lose all sense of rhythm when the
> music breaks out from that sequence.
>
> There is, of course, no reason why lutenists c.1500 shouldn't have
> used staff notation rather than tablature. As far as the Segovia
> music is concerned, tablature is a dead loss. It is absolutely
> hopeless trying to read a single line with complex rhythms notated
> in tablature. Staff notation is so much easier.
>
> The Lute Society has plans to publish some of this music. I was
> involved at an early stage in preparing parts in tablature, and
> eventually gave up, because tablature simply doesn't work. I was
> reluctant to choose where to play certain notes on the fingerboard -
> tablature dictates, whereas staff notation gives the player freedom
> to do as he pleases. Tablature also determines which sizes of lute
> to use. This is not helpful when single-line melodies are concerned,
> because most of the music can be played on different sizes of lute.
> The rhythms are generally too complex to be notated comfortably in
> tablature - syncopations, dotted notes and tied notes abundle. I am
> pleased to hear from Denys that the Society will soon publish some
> of the pieces.
>
> I usually take a stack of these lute trios to Lute Society playing
> days, but the music remains untouched. Staff notation (not
> tablature), single lines (not chords), unfamiliar repertory (not
> Pacaloni or Vallet), technical difficulties (not easy to
> sight-read), rambling polyphony (no catchy tunes), are usually
> enough factors to put off most people, which is a pity.
>
> Jon Banks has made a CD recording with the group Sirinu, in which
> about a third of the music consists of lute trios from this period.
> I can supply details if you want.
>
> As far as convincing anyone is concerned, I for one am convinced
> that Jon Banks is right.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Stewart McCoy.
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: continuo

[corun]

Dennis wrote:

>I see North's book is out of print. Any advice on where it can be found?

You can find it used from Amazon.co.uk

Regards,
Craig




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[LUTE] Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Stewart McCoy]

Dear Stuart,

Jon Banks' research into music from the Segovia manuscript is
extremely interesting. He has published an article in _Early Music_
about it. I can look up details if you like. He argues that at least
some of the music in the Segovia manuscript was intended for lutes.
He refers to things like wide ranges, which preclude wind
instruments.

This early lute music is often very complex rhythmically, and very
exciting to play. Much of it requires three lutes, each lute taking
a single melodic line, just as three wind instruments would. In one
piece there is a passage where all three lutes have a long series of
dotted crotchets, but staggered so that they play one quaver out
from each other. It is tempting to create your own dotted crotchet
pulse here, but if you do, you lose all sense of rhythm when the
music breaks out from that sequence.

There is, of course, no reason why lutenists c.1500 shouldn't have
used staff notation rather than tablature. As far as the Segovia
music is concerned, tablature is a dead loss. It is absolutely
hopeless trying to read a single line with complex rhythms notated
in tablature. Staff notation is so much easier.

The Lute Society has plans to publish some of this music. I was
involved at an early stage in preparing parts in tablature, and
eventually gave up, because tablature simply doesn't work. I was
reluctant to choose where to play certain notes on the fingerboard -
tablature dictates, whereas staff notation gives the player freedom
to do as he pleases. Tablature also determines which sizes of lute
to use. This is not helpful when single-line melodies are concerned,
because most of the music can be played on different sizes of lute.
The rhythms are generally too complex to be notated comfortably in
tablature - syncopations, dotted notes and tied notes abundle. I am
pleased to hear from Denys that the Society will soon publish some
of the pieces.

I usually take a stack of these lute trios to Lute Society playing
days, but the music remains untouched. Staff notation (not
tablature), single lines (not chords), unfamiliar repertory (not
Pacaloni or Vallet), technical difficulties (not easy to
sight-read), rambling polyphony (no catchy tunes), are usually
enough factors to put off most people, which is a pity.

Jon Banks has made a CD recording with the group Sirinu, in which
about a third of the music consists of lute trios from this period.
I can supply details if you want.

As far as convincing anyone is concerned, I for one am convinced
that Jon Banks is right.

Best wishes,

Stewart McCoy.





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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Stuart Walsh]

Denys Stephens wrote:

>Dear Stuart,
>I took on the role of being general editor of the
>Lute Society's music editions earlier this year
>and I have on my desk at the moment the
>proof copy of Jon Banks "Music for Lute Consort
>circa 1500. Volume 1."  If all goes according to
>plan it will be published and available from the
>Lute Society next month. It contains an introduction,
>performance notes and 17 pieces edited and arranged
>in staff notation for lute trio. Jon makes the point in
>his performance notes that many of the pieces may
>also be suitable for adaptation as lute duets or solos.
>
>I understand from Jon that he has written a book on
>this repertory which I imagine will expand on the ideas
>presented in his Lute Society article. The book is currently
>with his publisher and is likely to be available next year.
>
>Jon is not alone in his view that lutenists used mensural
>notation in the fifteenth century - Crawford Young writes
>in his introduction to his spectacularly fine facsimile of the
>Pesaro Manuscript:
>
>"The main reasons, then, for the apparent gap between
>what we know of lute practice and corresponding sources
>of lute repertory before the end of the fifteenth century
>are two: first, professional lute players of the fifteenth
>century seemingly did not need anything more than
>mensural notation and so-called "keyboard tablature"
>notation to record and disseminate their arrangements, and
>second, tablature arrived later because it was developed as a
>relatively simple system of notation for those who had little
>or no experience with mensural or keyboard notation, i.e., with
>the rise in the last decades of the fifteenth century of a broad
>market of amateur lutenists."
>
>The full title of the book containing the Pesaro ms facsimile
>is "Fruhe lautentabulaturen im faksimile / Early lute tablatures
>in facsimile" - it's published by Amadeus Verlag and contains
>reproductions of several early lute sources. It's not the kind of
>book that provides instant repertoire as much of the music
>requires an element of reconstruction, but for anyone who has an
>interest in seeing some of the earliest lute music in its original
>form it's an absolute treasure.
>
>I hope this is helpful,
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Denys
>
>  
>
Very interesting. I look forward to the Lute Society's publication. Is 
it for 'equal' lutes or a consort?(You resisted the temptation to put it 
in tablature?)

Is the Crawford Young book written in German or English?

In the same edition of  'Lute News' for September 2000 (No55) is an 
article by Hiroyuki Minamino - who seems to be in the same territory, 
and been at it longer?

Thanks.





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[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Stuart Walsh]

Sean Smith wrote:

>Hello Stewart,
>
>There is, indeed, a lot of music in the 15th century; much of it 
>instrumental but defining what _is_ lute music is tricky since no one 
>wrote on the page, "this is lute music". What the Segovia has that may 
>be considered lute music is of the tenor/contrapunto variety. Ie, the 
>tenor of a popular song such as De tous biens playne, Tandernaken or 
>Comme femme w/ a very decorated line beside it. A number of these are 
>associated w/ Alexander Agricola and can be found in Edward Lerner's 
>Agricola Opera Omnia. The Tandernaken is actually 2 highly decorated 
>lines w/ a 3rd slower moving tenor.
>
> 
>
Thanks.  It's interesting to note that Jon Banks specifically says: 'I 
am therefore proposing that the music on ff.159-198 of the Segovia Codex 
was specifically compiled and in some cases composed for lute ensemble.' 
He's claiming indirect - but compelling - evidence for lute (and perhaps 
in different sizes and maybe the gittern too, and perhaps the viola da 
mano, rather than lute)). It's a bold claim.



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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[cweaver100]

Nigel North's book is great.  I haven't heard about a new edition, though.

Those old French treatises are generally not so helpful (Fleury, Delair
etc.)  Bartelomi is pretty good though.  I think it was 1669.  I'm not sure
if there's a facsimile available.

In addition to those realizations by Castaldi, there's a whole book of
villanelle by Kapsberger with guitar alfabeto, b.c. line, and theorbo
tablature.  It's a little hard to know what to make of them though.  Also,
you might find Kapsberger book 3 useful.

There are two theorbo continuo manuscripts that are quite handy.  There's
one in the New York Public library that's basically just fingering tables
(there are some interesting shapes).  The other is the so-called Modena ms,
which has many, many ways of ornamenting various.  It's a treasure trove of
early Italian theorbo style, very florid.  It is a really great source, and
it's been published in a modern edition.

Charlie Weaver



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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Arthur Ness]

I had heard that there were plans for a second edition.  Anyone know about it? 
There certainly would be planty demand.
  - Original Message - 
  From: guy_and_liz Smith 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; dc 
  Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 3:48 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: continuo


  I just checked Amazon.com, and there are a couple of copies available (from 
private dealers).
- Original Message - 
From: dc 
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 9:34 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: continuo


Thanks to all of you for the fine suggestions. I should have added that 
I've been playing continuo on keyboard instruments for years and years, so 
what I'm interested in is the specific theorbo-style continuo. I'm in 
France (near Fontainebleau).

I see North's book is out of print. Any advice on where it can be found?

Dennis
   




To get on or off this list see list information at

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --
--

[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Denys Stephens]

Dear Stuart,
I took on the role of being general editor of the
Lute Society's music editions earlier this year
and I have on my desk at the moment the
proof copy of Jon Banks "Music for Lute Consort
circa 1500. Volume 1."  If all goes according to
plan it will be published and available from the
Lute Society next month. It contains an introduction,
performance notes and 17 pieces edited and arranged
in staff notation for lute trio. Jon makes the point in
his performance notes that many of the pieces may
also be suitable for adaptation as lute duets or solos.

I understand from Jon that he has written a book on
this repertory which I imagine will expand on the ideas
presented in his Lute Society article. The book is currently
with his publisher and is likely to be available next year.

Jon is not alone in his view that lutenists used mensural
notation in the fifteenth century - Crawford Young writes
in his introduction to his spectacularly fine facsimile of the
Pesaro Manuscript:

"The main reasons, then, for the apparent gap between
what we know of lute practice and corresponding sources
of lute repertory before the end of the fifteenth century
are two: first, professional lute players of the fifteenth
century seemingly did not need anything more than
mensural notation and so-called "keyboard tablature"
notation to record and disseminate their arrangements, and
second, tablature arrived later because it was developed as a
relatively simple system of notation for those who had little
or no experience with mensural or keyboard notation, i.e., with
the rise in the last decades of the fifteenth century of a broad
market of amateur lutenists."

The full title of the book containing the Pesaro ms facsimile
is "Fruhe lautentabulaturen im faksimile / Early lute tablatures
in facsimile" - it's published by Amadeus Verlag and contains
reproductions of several early lute sources. It's not the kind of
book that provides instant repertoire as much of the music
requires an element of reconstruction, but for anyone who has an
interest in seeing some of the earliest lute music in its original
form it's an absolute treasure.

I hope this is helpful,

Best wishes,

Denys



- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Walsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:05 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Jon Banks and lute ensembles


I was looking through an old copy of ‘Lute News’ (of the Lute Society)
for September 2000. There’s an article by Jon Banks: ‘A New Old
Repertoire for Lutes’ which claims to add a thousand lute pieces to the
repertoire.

The article is a very pleasant read and touches on all sorts of issues.
Banks is arguing that some of the late textless chansons are for lutes
in ensemble (and they are not to be scat-sung a la maniere de Page). He
has written elsewhere about this same topic.

He is claiming a tradition of lutes playing single lines from staff
notation in ensemble in the late 15th and the early 16th century – even
though lute tablature was already established.Well, has he convinced
anyone? I can’t find any evidence other than references to other
articles by Banks.

It’s a very attractive idea. A lot of the music he is claiming is really
for lutes (not voices, not winds, not viols – but maybe violas and
gitterns) is in the Segovia Codex (ff159-198).I can’t find anything
about this – other than references back to Jon Banks. I’d like to try
these pieces. Anyone know where I could find any of them?

Other than the Segovia Codex, Banks lists (to name just a few): Berlin
78 C 28,
Florence 2356 and Bologna Q16…and many other sources of textless chansons.

I’ve got some old photocopies from a book I forgot to note which has
textless chansons including MS Q16, if that’s the same as the one Banks
was referring to (No 26 in this book is ‘Laultro jour’). Whatever book
this is could be really useful!
There’s some very tricky rhythms. Very challenging.



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 28/09/2005

[LUTE] Re: continuo

[guy_and_liz Smith]

I just checked Amazon.com, and there are a couple of copies available (from 
private dealers).
  - Original Message - 
  From: dc 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 9:34 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: continuo


  Thanks to all of you for the fine suggestions. I should have added that 
  I've been playing continuo on keyboard instruments for years and years, so 
  what I'm interested in is the specific theorbo-style continuo. I'm in 
  France (near Fontainebleau).

  I see North's book is out of print. Any advice on where it can be found?

  Dennis
 




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Sean Smith]

Hello Stewart,

There is, indeed, a lot of music in the 15th century; much of it 
instrumental but defining what _is_ lute music is tricky since no one 
wrote on the page, "this is lute music". What the Segovia has that may 
be considered lute music is of the tenor/contrapunto variety. Ie, the 
tenor of a popular song such as De tous biens playne, Tandernaken or 
Comme femme w/ a very decorated line beside it. A number of these are 
associated w/ Alexander Agricola and can be found in Edward Lerner's 
Agricola Opera Omnia. The Tandernaken is actually 2 highly decorated 
lines w/ a 3rd slower moving tenor.

 From iconic sources we often see either two lutes or lute(s) and a 
bowed instrument. All of these are in mensural notation. The pagination 
suggests these were memorized or written from memory.

In the Perugia Bibliotea Communal Augusta, ms 1013 there is the 
tantalising duo where each line is signed a different name --Agricola 
and Ghiselin. Both parts are highly decorated in much the same fashion. 
Is this possibly a collaboration from two lutenists?

There is also a note on one piece in the Buxheimer Organ book that 
suggests it may be played on keyboard or lute. As an experiment Dick 
Hoban and I have transcribed many pieces from this (& other organ 
sources) to see if they fit on lute. The nature of the organ tab 
usually sets the lower voices derived from secular and sacred vocal 
music and sets the cantus in a florid style. There are many 
compositions by Dufay, Frye, and others here.

Sean


On Oct 8, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote:

> I was looking through an old copy of ‘Lute News’ (of the Lute Society)
> for September 2000. There’s an article by Jon Banks: ‘A New Old
> Repertoire for Lutes’ which claims to add a thousand lute pieces to the
> repertoire.
>
> The article is a very pleasant read and touches on all sorts of issues.
> Banks is arguing that some of the late textless chansons are for lutes
> in ensemble (and they are not to be scat-sung a la maniere de Page). He
> has written elsewhere about this same topic.
>
> He is claiming a tradition of lutes playing single lines from staff
> notation in ensemble in the late 15th and the early 16th century – even
> though lute tablature was already established.Well, has he convinced
> anyone? I can’t find any evidence other than references to other
> articles by Banks.
>
> It’s a very attractive idea. A lot of the music he is claiming is 
> really
> for lutes (not voices, not winds, not viols – but maybe violas and
> gitterns) is in the Segovia Codex (ff159-198).I can’t find anything
> about this – other than references back to Jon Banks. I’d like to try
> these pieces. Anyone know where I could find any of them?
>
> Other than the Segovia Codex, Banks lists (to name just a few): Berlin
> 78 C 28,
> Florence 2356 and Bologna Q16
> and many other sources of textless chansons.
>
> I’ve got some old photocopies from a book I forgot to note which has
> textless chansons including MS Q16, if that’s the same as the one Banks
> was referring to (No 26 in this book is ‘Laultro jour’). Whatever book
> this is could be really useful!
> There’s some very tricky rhythms. Very challenging.
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: continuo

[dc]

Thanks to all of you for the fine suggestions. I should have added that 
I've been playing continuo on keyboard instruments for years and years, so 
what I'm interested in is the specific theorbo-style continuo. I'm in 
France (near Fontainebleau).

I see North's book is out of print. Any advice on where it can be found?

Dennis
   




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Jon Banks and lute ensembles

[Stuart Walsh]

I was looking through an old copy of ‘Lute News’ (of the Lute Society) 
for September 2000. There’s an article by Jon Banks: ‘A New Old 
Repertoire for Lutes’ which claims to add a thousand lute pieces to the 
repertoire.

The article is a very pleasant read and touches on all sorts of issues. 
Banks is arguing that some of the late textless chansons are for lutes 
in ensemble (and they are not to be scat-sung a la maniere de Page). He 
has written elsewhere about this same topic.

He is claiming a tradition of lutes playing single lines from staff 
notation in ensemble in the late 15th and the early 16th century – even 
though lute tablature was already established.Well, has he convinced 
anyone? I can’t find any evidence other than references to other 
articles by Banks.

It’s a very attractive idea. A lot of the music he is claiming is really 
for lutes (not voices, not winds, not viols – but maybe violas and 
gitterns) is in the Segovia Codex (ff159-198).I can’t find anything 
about this – other than references back to Jon Banks. I’d like to try 
these pieces. Anyone know where I could find any of them?

Other than the Segovia Codex, Banks lists (to name just a few): Berlin 
78 C 28,
Florence 2356 and Bologna Q16…and many other sources of textless chansons.

I’ve got some old photocopies from a book I forgot to note which has 
textless chansons including MS Q16, if that’s the same as the one Banks 
was referring to (No 26 in this book is ‘Laultro jour’). Whatever book 
this is could be really useful!
There’s some very tricky rhythms. Very challenging.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Ian Honeyman and Benjamin Narvey in Concert of English Lute Song, Saturday 15 October

[Benjamin Narvey]

Dear All,

Just to let you know - in case any of you find yourselves in France next 
weekend - that I will be performing a concert of English Lute Song with the 
tenor Ian Honeyman.  Please find below the details:

Saturday 15 October, 8pm
Eglise de La Haye St-Sylvestre (near Evreux)
Normandy

All very best,

Benjamin
 



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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Arthur Ness]

Doug Freundlich lives in the Boston area. He teaches at the Longy School of 
Music inCambrudge, near Harvard Square.
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 10:32 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: continuo


  Dennis wrote:

  >Hi folks,
  >
  >Are there any tutors for learning continuo on the theorbo?

  Hi Dennis,

  Nigel's books has already been mentioned as a definitive source for study. 
  But if you're looking for a teacher I can recommend Doug Freundlich. 
  Trouble is I don't know where either you or he lives so that may be a moot 
  point. I want to say Doug is in the Chicago area. Someone else can probably 
  correct me. Barring getting Nigel's book, which I highly recommend, seeking 
  out a teacher in your area is the best thing to do.

  Regards,
  Craig




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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[corun]

Dennis wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>Are there any tutors for learning continuo on the theorbo?

Hi Dennis,

Nigel's books has already been mentioned as a definitive source for study. 
But if you're looking for a teacher I can recommend Doug Freundlich. 
Trouble is I don't know where either you or he lives so that may be a moot 
point. I want to say Doug is in the Chicago area. Someone else can probably 
correct me. Barring getting Nigel's book, which I highly recommend, seeking 
out a teacher in your area is the best thing to do.

Regards,
Craig




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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Sal Salvaggio]

Hi

One thing I did years ago, prior to North's book and
other continuo tutors being published was to take
madrigal collections with keyboard reductions and read
the bottom 3 or 4 parts or just read them from a
choral score, then go back and  take just the bass
line and do an on site realization(protocontinuo) It's
interesting to see the formulas they used. Every once
in a while I put basso figures under some notes. The
AR editions of Caccini, Peri etc. are also fun to go
through the figures are minimal as compared to later
works by Bach, Teleman etc. The Malpierro Vivaldi
series, available in most University Libraries is
great too. But, as far as the 17th cent. goes, watch
that Purcell - some hairy figures. At the same time I
was doing this - late 70's early 80's - I was giving
guitar lessons in studios and in the public schools,
and worked on harmonizing Go tell Aunt Rhody and other
gems, either in jazz chort forms or with a more
classical, finger style/bassline block chordal or
arpeggiated ala Giuliani approach. 
. Oh...and do as much harmonic analysis
of the period you are working with as you can...Hope
this helps

SS



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[LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)

[EUGENE BRAIG IV]

- Original Message -
From: bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, October 8, 2005 4:26 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free Advice (Re: New Boy 
wants lute)

> perhaps collective wisdom will instruct new boy on the
> proper method of trimming his fingernails.

If he intends to use them, he shouldn't trim them at all, but should file them 
with relatively fine emery boards and cosmetic nail buffers.  I keep relatively 
short nails for use on modern guitar, but favor less nail on early strings, so 
my nails (at least p, i, and m) are strongly tapered down on the attack side.  
I would do the same on a and c, but my a and c nails have a rather strong curl 
that is not conducive to the shape.  For something similar, you can see Scott 
Tennant's _Pumping_Nylon_.

Eugene



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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Eric Hansen]

Very good recommendations. Castaldi's _Cappricci a due stromenti cioe tiorba e 
tiorbino e per sonar solo varie sorti di balli fantasticarie_ is also 
instructive for the songs in it, set for solo voice. The accompaniment is a 
bass line, beneath which is a realization in tablature for theorbo. The 
tablature gives some idea of style as well as harmonic realization. The book is 
a Minkoff Reprint (1981), with ISBN 2-8266-0718-9.

Eric Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 --- On Sat 10/08, Taco Walstra < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From: Taco Walstra [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 13:43:41 +0200
Subject: [LUTE] Re: continuo

On Saturday 08 October 2005 12:39, you wrote:As said before in the 'new 
boy's' thread the book by Nigel North is the best starting book. It gives 
excellent information with some worked out examples in tablature. In my 
opinion the theoretical chapter on music theory is a bit short, when 
starting to figure your own unfigured bass part; it's more an outline for 
people who already know everything about harmonics, 6, 6/4 inversions etc. 
etc. but this can also be found in other books. The french lute society 
has also some booklet on continuo, but of course in french and not known to 
me. A very good book is "Traité d'accompagnement pour le théorbe et 
le clavessin (Paris, 1690) by Denis Delair, available in facsimile by 
Minkoff. The English translation is unfortunately not anymore available, 
but can be found in some university libraries.Complicated but still 
interesting is Arnold, The art of accompaniment from 
a thorough bass as practised in the 17th and 18th centuries (Dover 
publications, 2 paperbacks). Fleury - Methode pour apprendre facilement 
a toucher le theorbe sur la basse-continue, 1660. Minkoff facsimile. Lots 
of mistakes, generally not recommended, only historically 
interesting.Agazzari - del sonare sopra 'l basso con tutti li stromenti 
e dell' uso loro nel conserto, Sienna 1607. Very interesting essay. 
Translation can be found in Arnold but also on internet. It's more for 
historical background because of it's early date, not for learning 
continuo. The 'English songs 1625-1660', Musica Brittanica is a good 
starter, because the bass part is worked out in staff, easy songs which fit 
very good on theorbo.Taco> Hi folks,>> Are there any tutors 
for learning continuo on the theorbo?>> Thanks,>> 
Dennis> To get on or off this list see list information 
at> 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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[LUTE] Re: continuo

[Taco Walstra]

On Saturday 08 October 2005 12:39, you wrote:

As said before in the 'new boy's' thread the book by Nigel North is the best 
starting book. It gives excellent information with some worked out examples 
in tablature. In my opinion the theoretical chapter on music theory is a bit 
short, when starting to figure your own unfigured bass part; it's more an 
outline for people who already know everything about harmonics, 6, 6/4 
inversions etc. etc. but this can also be found in other books. 

The french lute society has also some booklet on continuo, but of course in 
french and not known to me. 

A very good book is "Traité d'accompagnement pour le théorbe et le clavessin 
(Paris, 1690) by Denis Delair, available in facsimile by Minkoff. The English 
translation is unfortunately not anymore available, but can be found in some 
university libraries.

Complicated but still interesting is 
Arnold, The art of accompaniment from a thorough bass as practised in the 17th 
and 18th centuries (Dover publications, 2 paperbacks). 

Fleury - Methode pour apprendre facilement a toucher le theorbe sur la 
basse-continue, 1660. Minkoff facsimile. Lots of mistakes, generally not 
recommended, only historically interesting.

Agazzari - del sonare sopra 'l basso con tutti li stromenti e dell' uso loro 
nel conserto, Sienna 1607. Very interesting essay. Translation can be found 
in Arnold but also on internet. It's more for historical background because 
of it's early date, not for learning continuo. 

The 'English songs 1625-1660', Musica Brittanica is a good starter, because 
the bass part is worked out in staff, easy songs which fit very good on 
theorbo.
Taco
> Hi folks,
>
> Are there any tutors for learning continuo on the theorbo?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] continuo

[dc]

Hi folks,

Are there any tutors for learning continuo on the theorbo?

Thanks,

Dennis




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[LUTE] Re: New Boy

[Nick Gravestock]

Dear Charlie,
If you look on David van Edwards site at theorbos, there is a bit about
double stringing on the fretboard of the instrument, but not the basses.
Link through The Lute Society website if you don't have his url
Did not know Mace mentioned nails - thought I had read right through but
missed that bit - useful as I still use nails
Nick

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 08 October 2005 00:23
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New Boy

Wow,

I've never heard about the double strung theorbo, and certainly not as
the
most common form.  I stand corrected.  I would love to see an article
about
that.  I've never seen any iconography or treatise or anything that
would
suggest that.  I guess the single string theory is still the accepted
mode
of thinking in some corners of the lute world.

The no-nails thing comes as a surprise, too.  I play without nails
myself,
but the historical evidence seems to point to continuo playing being
done
with nails.  It's not just Piccinini, but also Thomas Mace (who suggests
nails for ensemble music).  I think it was a matter of choice, then as
now.

Anyway, now that we know what New Boy wants, we can give up this silly
argument, which I never meant to start anyway.

Charlie



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[LUTE] New Boy wants lute

[Stewart McCoy]

Dear Saw 192837,

Thanks for your thanks. I'm pleased you have found our various
messages helpful.

If you want to play English lute songs, like those by Dowland,
Campion, and others, you need a renaissance lute with seven, or
eight courses. Seven is enough, but it can be convenient having the
option of a low F and low D without having to re-tune, which you get
on an 8-course lute. I'd go for an 8-course.

If you want to play with other people at some stage, you need to
think of pitch, because that determines the size of your lute. Many
players today play at modern pitch, i.e. A=440; for that you will
need a lute with a string length (nut to bridge) of 60 cm. There are
some people who prefer to play down a semitone (more or less) at
A=415, in which case your lute should be a little larger, with a
string length in the region of 63 cm or 64 cm. If you will use your
lute mainly for accompanying yourself, it might be best to go for a
lute of about 64 cm. The extra size gives a little bit more body to
the sound - slightly more resonance in the bass - which is
especially useful if you sing the melody down an octave as a tenor,
not at pitch as a soprano or countertenor. It means the highest
notes are just that bit lower, and so easier to sing. I have a 60 cm
lute, but sometimes I wish it could offer more support to the people
I accompany. Some singers ask me to tune down a semitone, even
though my lute does not sound at its best at that pitch.

I would advise against buying a lute from a shop. The shopkeeper has
to have his cut, so his prices will be higher than you would pay if
you bought direct from a lute-maker. The trouble is, until you have
made contacts and friends in the lute world, shops appear to be the
only option. It is worth being patient.

As far as relative price is concerned, by and large you get what you
pay for. You may be lucky enough to find a good second-hand
instrument going cheap, but otherwise pay as much as you can afford.
It is obvious from your two e-mails that you are keen to learn the
lute, so go for a good one right from the start.

If I were you, I would reserve judgement on things like whether to
play with nails or flesh, or which right-hand technique to use. It's
early days yet, and you may find your ideas change as you become
more familiar with the instrument. It is a good idea to have at
least some lessons from a good lute teacher, not from a guitarist
who may or may not dabble with the lute. Going on courses, like a
week on a summer school, is also extremely valuable.

By the way, my name is Stewart. Please tell us what your name is,
because I feel as if I'm writing to a convict in prison, using
letters and numbers gleaned from your e-mail address.

Best wishes,

Stewart McCoy.


- Original Message -
From: "saw 192837" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:15 PM
Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free
Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)


>
> Howdy!
>
>
> I want to thank everyone for posting advice. I still am interested
in
> getting a lute. I thought I would offer more information.
>
> I do play classical guitar, and can read traditional music
notation,
> although I hate sight reading and prefer to play non-classical
pieces by
> ear. In other words, I do not just strum 3 chords out. I also
understand
> basic musical theory.
>
> What I really want is a renaissance lute ("English Lute"), like
the kind
> contemporaneous with Shakespeare, to mostly accompany myself
singing, not
> solo playing. I am thinking of songs of Dowland, Campion, etc, of
the era.
>
> I have to object to the advice on getting a 13 course lute or
Therobo. 13
> courses is way too many strings to tune, take care of, and keep
track of.
>
> As for a Therobo, the problem is I dont want something that
similar to the
> guitar. It is my understanding the different sound of the guitar
versus the
> lute is partly because of the double strings, without which
defeats the
> purpose. I also think the renaissance lute just looks better, and
the
> therobo looks way too big and guitar like.
>
> One problem is, I started off playing the guitar without nails (I
used to
> play the piano). Finally I just let them grow out as I was
supposed to, and
> the playing is MUCH better with nails (Easier, more versatile,
sounds
> better). So the lute is not played with nails? Is this the general
rule, or
> an absolute requirement?
>
> Will be very difficult switch back and forth if one instrument
requires
> nails and the other doesn't?
>
> Also, I've heard it elsewhere (on the rec.music.classical.guitar
newsgroup)
> that the "pakistani" made lutes are horrible (the cheap ones on
ebay). How
> do I make sure I dont get stuck with one of these bad ones? Are
they really
> that bad? If there is so much demand for lutes, why are there
relatively few
> available? (One luthier told me the waiting period was 18 months.
.  ) And
> why does the "early music shop" always have an unlimited amount of
> 

[LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)

[bill kilpatrick]

perhaps collective wisdom will instruct new boy on the
proper method of trimming his fingernails.

niceappleforyoudearie - bill

"and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly..." - Don 
Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), "Historias de la Conquista del Mayab" by Fra Joseph 
of San Buenaventura.  go to:  http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm





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[LUTE] Re: New Boy's Ungrateful Response to Free Advice (Re: New Boy wants lute)

[Ed Durbrow]

On Oct 8, 2005, at 7:15 AM, saw 192837 wrote:

> Will be very difficult switch back and forth if one instrument  
> requires
> nails and the other doesn't?

When I started playing lute, I used to file my nails on one side.  
This worked fairly well, allowing me to play guitar with nails and  
lute without. It kind of depends on how long your nails are. Pat  
Obrien and Steven Stubbs have shown that it is possible to get a good  
sound on the lute with nails.

I wouldn't let nails discourage you from starting lute. I would NOT  
try to play lute with classical guitar RH technique, however.

> Also, I've heard it elsewhere (on the rec.music.classical.guitar  
> newsgroup)
> that the "pakistani" made lutes are horrible

I'm sure you will get a lot of advice about that. Check Wayne Cripps  
lute page for used instruments. If you've played guitar for a while  
I'm sure you will realize how discouraging having a bad instrument  
can be.
cheers,

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



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