[LUTE] Re: Early 4-part lute playing
> "Others could play pieces not only a 2 but also a 3 or a 4 - a difficult > feat. Tinctoris mentions a German, > Heinrich, recently in the service of Charles the Bold, as one of them." > (MitR. p.148). He was Henri Bouclers, he appears in the Burgundian court's payment records since 1468, interestingly, with his brother Leonart (Lyenart) who was also a lutenist. Their name is also spelled 'Beuchel' and 'Bouclin' - the latter sounds South-German (or even Swiss). As such, he could have been taught in the tradition of (or even by) Konrad Paumann, whom Tictoris seems to have in mind when he talks about 'orbus ille germanus' - another early virtuoso of polyphonic playing. > Charles was killed in 1477. So this is pretty early for 4-part > lute-playing, don't you think? Not necessarily. Ordinances of the Burgundian chapel in 1469 show that the ensemble was divided into 4 groups of singers reflecting parts in 4-part polyphony (cantus, contratenor altus, tenor, contratenor bassus). 4-part polyphonic writing was becoming fashionable; as far as chapel music is concerned, indeed a norm. A lutenist might have wanted to follow. But see below. > I wonder how many courses Heinrich would have had on his lute. This might have depended on what his repertoire consisted of. If he intabulated music by Binchois and Dufay and their generation, he would be probably well off with a 5-course. But Bouclers seems to have been active in the second half of the century, and this is the time of the Busnoys-Ockeghem-Hayne generation, who frequently wrote low contratenors and widened 'spacing' between the voices. If he intabulated their music, he would need the sixth course. 6-course lute obviously appeared when developments in music created a need for it. Also, he might have possessed both instruments, or started career on 5- and later turned to 6-course. > Rob C. Wegman has published a wonderful facsimile edition of "Brussel, > Koninklijke Bibliotheek MS. 5557", with the title > "Choirbook of the Burgundian Court Chapel". I always thought that > intabulating from this would sort of make me an > anachronistic, bad sort of person, but after hearing about Heinrich, I wonder. No, there is no need to worry about being anachronistic, but I wouldn't expect it to be easy or, indeed, effective. Polyphony in 5557 can be quite intricate in a way that doesn't suit the lute particularly well. I always have to think of the passage in Guillaume Cretin's 'Deploration' on the death of Ockeghem (1497), where Hayne van Ghizeghem playing on the lute Ockeghem's 'Ut heremita solus'. This is happening in heaven, and maybe also only there possible, because I don't think any human being can actually play it. But perhaps with a bit of luck one could find a suitable piece. Generally, a lot depends on whether the piece is played 'straight' or embellished; an embellished 3-part piece can be at least as much of a nightmare as a straight 4-part. But, generally, I think 2- and 3-part texture is simply more natural and effective on the lute than 4-part. M To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: An American accent in lute playing?
FWIW -- I recall overhearing a remark at some festival, after solo recitals by Paul O'Dette and Nigel North, that POD was "kind of a gringo." -Original Message- From: Herbert Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:07 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] An American accent in lute playing? Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? By this I mean: Suppose you took a good teacher with extensive experience in both American and Europe, and had him listen, blindfolded, to 10 American lutenists and 10 European lutenists. Could he pick out the Americans with any degree of success? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Early 4-part lute playing
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006, Arne Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Tinctoris mentions a German, > Heinrich, recently in the service of Charles the Bold, as one of them." > (MitR. p.148). > > Charles was killed in 1477. So this is pretty early for 4-part > lute-playing, don't you think? May have been Hayne von Ghezeghem, who is thought to have been a lutenist, worked for Charles the Bold, and is not heard of since Charles died in that siege (presumably Hayne was with him and died there). > I wonder how many courses Heinrich would have had on his lute. I beleive 6c is known that early. The majority of Hayne's works were three-part, but some of his contemporarys (including ones at the Burgundian court) were composing in 4 parts. I have noticde that some of Haynes works sit well on the lute, in parts. Generally they require an instrument of some range, such as a gamba or a lute, crumhorns dont work, recorders are stretched. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote: > Lets start the list, limited to REAL BIG TIME pros (geniuses included). It would really be interesting to hear the list of "geniuses" by everyone in the list! :) I could not name anyone..., ..., just wait, ..., perhaps F. da Milano, J. Dowland, A. de Rippe, G. Kapsperger, etc., etc., could be one of those? Arto PS Roman, did you ever notice the very "jazzy" elements of Kapsperger? It might even be so that all the recordings of his music do not make justice to his pieces... ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13c at ebay's
I almost bought one in 1986, from Noah Wolfe's store in NYC. Jerry Willard owns one, I suspect the one I didn't buy then. The bridge position is very WV like. RT - Original Message - From: ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Lutelist" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:39 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: 13c at ebay's > "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: >> EastGerman, > > how do you know? > >> from the 60's, > > how do you...? > >> Wandervogel in disguise... > > well, that one's for sure: no. Double courses, u-c. Could call it a nice > try, though >B) > -- > Cheers, > > Mathias > > http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel > http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com > > > >> > To whom it concerns: Apparently, there is a 13c lute, swan neck style, >> > for sale at ebay's: >> > >> > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7383554505&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:DE:1 > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
Lets start the list, limited to REAL BIG TIME pros (geniuses included). Americans: Barto Smith POD Maginley Stubbs Herringman Burris Scheiderman Argentinians: Eguez, Abramovich Mascardi Costoyas Bosnia: Karamazov Colombia: Buraglia Italy: DÁgosto, Cicero, Contini Switzerland: Pianca Sweden: Lindberg UK: North Poland: Zak - Original Message - From: "Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ward2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing? > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote: > >> In fact, most top-flight players are American or Argentinian, with one >> Colombian exception. > > Well, ..., do not forget the Swedish one and also some from the islands > to the west from Europe... And even on the continent - in the so called > "old Europe" - there perhaps are some ... > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: 13c at ebay's
"Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > EastGerman, how do you know? > from the 60's, how do you...? > Wandervogel in disguise... well, that one's for sure: no. Double courses, u-c. Could call it a nice try, though >B) -- Cheers, Mathias http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com > > To whom it concerns: Apparently, there is a 13c lute, swan neck style, > > for sale at ebay's: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7383554505&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:DE:1 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote: > In fact, most top-flight players are American or Argentinian, with one > Colombian exception. Well, ..., do not forget the Swedish one and also some from the islands to the west from Europe... And even on the continent - in the so called "old Europe" - there perhaps are some ... Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13c at ebay's
EastGerman, from the 60's, Wandervogel in disguise... RT - Original Message - From: ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: [LUTE] 13c at ebay's > To whom it concerns: Apparently, there is a 13c lute, swan neck style, > for sale at ebay's: > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7383554505&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:DE:1 > > -- > Regards, > > Mathias > > http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel > http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
In fact, most top-flight players are American or Argentinian, with one Colombian exception. RT - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ward2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "lute" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing? >I think you can not, POD and HS are both American, and completely >different. > PD > -- Initial Header --- > > From : "Herbert Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Cc : > Date : Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:06:46 -0600 (CST) > Subject : [LUTE] An American accent in lute playing? > > > > > > > >> >> Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? >> >> By this I mean: Suppose you took a good teacher with extensive >> experience in both American and Europe, and had him listen, >> blindfolded, to 10 American lutenists and 10 European lutenists. >> Could he pick out the Americans with any degree of success? >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > >
[LUTE] Re: making a simple rose
Nick Gravestock wrote: >Aha! >Your problem is your cutting method. >A chisel point is required, not a "slicing cut" with a blade. >Exacto do a chisel point blade that would do for parchment/paper, and >probably cardboard. >Small carving chisels thinned down without "blueing" the steel are best. >These come in flats and various radiuses of curve to make the curved >roses. >I don't think you will succeed in any material with a slicing cut. >Nick > > > Thanks for your help. So I should be using a sort of chisel technique on parchment or cardboard?! Well, it was obvious that I was never going to succeed with the slicing cut of the scalpel. I had a quick google for Exacto chisel point blades - and didn't really find anything. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13c at ebay's
> It looks rather heavy, especially the rosette. Could it be an angelica > as the subtitle on the Tielke picture reads? Hi Greet, have a closer look at the pictures! 5 bass courses on the exended neck, 8 courses on the fretboard qualifies as a typical German baroque lute setting, doesn't it. (BTW, there are 16 pegs in the 1st pegbox as opposed to the seller's information). But there are solid frets on the fretboard, not gut, the body consists of 13 ribs, and 64 cm VL is a typical length for guitar-like lutes. Resembling a HIP baroque lute as it may seem, this instrument was made during the 20th century, I'd say, as a rather liberal copy. > Strange there is no name of the builder at the inside, or didn't the man who > sells it knows where to find this? the seller's pseudo is gambengerd, so I suppose he should know where to find a label. On the other hand, 20th century lutes more often than not lack any such labels. -- Cheers, Mathias http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com > >To whom it concerns: Apparently, there is a 13c lute, swan neck style, > >for sale at ebay's: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7383554505&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:DE:1 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
> I think you can not, POD and HS are both American, > and completely different. > > Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? I meant to ask the question with respect to "ordinary" lutenists like myself, and not gifted virtuosi like POD and HS, for whom I should be slow to say anything was impossible. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Early 4-part lute playing
Searching for something else in "Music in the Renaissance" by Gustave Reese, I happened to notice in the index one "Heinrich (lutenist)", mentioned by Tinctoris in his 12th treatise, "De inventione et usu musicae", composed ca. 1484. Tinctoris writes about lute players: "Others could play pieces not only a 2 but also a 3 or a 4 - a difficult feat. Tinctoris mentions a German, Heinrich, recently in the service of Charles the Bold, as one of them." (MitR. p.148). Charles was killed in 1477. So this is pretty early for 4-part lute-playing, don't you think? I wonder how many courses Heinrich would have had on his lute. Rob C. Wegman has published a wonderful facsimile edition of "Brussel, Koninklijke Bibliotheek MS. 5557", with the title "Choirbook of the Burgundian Court Chapel". I always thought that intabulating from this would sort of make me an anachronistic, bad sort of person, but after hearing about Heinrich, I wonder. Comments? Arne Keller. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: An American accent in lute playing?
On Friday 20 January 2006 15:06, Herbert Ward wrote: > Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? Oh yes sure, although only when they play from french tablature. Especially open strings and fourth position have distinct different accents. When both play Milano from Italian tablature there is no difference. Taco > > By this I mean: Suppose you took a good teacher with extensive > experience in both American and Europe, and had him listen, > blindfolded, to 10 American lutenists and 10 European lutenists. > Could he pick out the Americans with any degree of success? > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: n American accent in lute playing?
I think you can not, POD and HS are both American, and completely different. PD -- Initial Header --- >From : "Herbert Ward" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc : Date : Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:06:46 -0600 (CST) Subject : [LUTE] An American accent in lute playing? > > Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? > > By this I mean: Suppose you took a good teacher with extensive > experience in both American and Europe, and had him listen, > blindfolded, to 10 American lutenists and 10 European lutenists. > Could he pick out the Americans with any degree of success? > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Question on Lute stringing
Dear all, On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, David Rastall wrote: > I string my 66 cm Venere 10-course in G, using a chanterelle of 0425 > Pyramid nylon. I've never broken a chanterrelle yet. It works > fine. It sounds just as good in G, with all the string gauges > appropriately lighter than for F tuning, and the strings are just as > responsive, easy to tune and play on in G. Same experience! In my archlute (Barber 1987) I use 0.45 Pyramid nylon chanterelle, works well in G (tuning a'=440Hz), nearly 4.5 Kg, feels good, sounds good. I think the matter (feeling, sounding) depends also much on the construction of the instrument, not only on those "scientific" parameters... All the best Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] An American accent in lute playing?
Do Americans play lute with a distinctive "accent"? By this I mean: Suppose you took a good teacher with extensive experience in both American and Europe, and had him listen, blindfolded, to 10 American lutenists and 10 European lutenists. Could he pick out the Americans with any degree of success? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Question on Lute stringing
> My "flat-back" is 63.5 cm VL, and I tune it to G. But there is no > musical > string that will hold that at that length. Another beautiful theory destroyed by ugly facts. We have two 65 cm ten course lutes (almost identical) and they are often kept at G (A440) with either nylon or nylgut trebles. I can't remember the last time one broke - years probably. The tensile strength of the materials is adequate; if you are breaking strings that easily you should check the nut and bridge to make sure that there is nothing rough that is nicking the string. > It is an anomalie > of materials that all strings of the same material have the same > breaking > pitch (given the VL) no matter the guage I wouldn't call it an anomaly. The breaking point occurs at a particular (material dependent) stress. Stress is force per area - the tension divided by the cross sectional area of the string. (Think of it like this: the thicker the string, the more molecular bonds you have to pull apart to break it, so greater total force required. The only thing that is characteristic of the material is the force require to pull *one* bond apart. This is roughly what the breaking stress measures.) It just turns out that when you juggle the equation describing a string to express pitch as a function of stress instead of pitch as a function of tension, the diameter of the string drops out of the equation. It could be worse - on a lute only the first string is near the breaking pitch. On a harp (because the string length varies) you can have many strings near the breaking pitch. Bob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Question on Lute stringing
I beg to differ with you guys: On Jan 20, 2006, at 4:16 AM, Jon Murphy wrote: >> The basic answer is that 63cm is too long to comfortably tune to G at >> modern pitch A440. >> > > ...there is no musical > string that will hold that at that length. I string my 66 cm Venere 10-course in G, using a chanterelle of 0425 Pyramid nylon. I've never broken a chanterrelle yet. It works fine. It sounds just as good in G, with all the string gauges appropriately lighter than for F tuning, and the strings are just as responsive, easy to tune and play on in G. David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: making a simple rose
Aha! Your problem is your cutting method. A chisel point is required, not a "slicing cut" with a blade. Exacto do a chisel point blade that would do for parchment/paper, and probably cardboard. Small carving chisels thinned down without "blueing" the steel are best. These come in flats and various radiuses of curve to make the curved roses. I don't think you will succeed in any material with a slicing cut. Nick -Original Message- From: Stuart Walsh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 January 2006 09:02 To: Christopher Challen; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: making a simple rose Many thanks for all the suggestions. I did try using some parchment - or that's what the craft shop called it. It just tore, even with a brand new scalpel blade. It was impossible to get any kind of clean line. I'll try, as suggested with some ordinary cardboard. Thanks again. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute +clavichord
Jurek Zak had been doing this on baroque lute. RT - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:33 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute +clavichord > > I have been reading about Jacob Herriman's duets wth lute and > clavichord. > This appears to be an interesting combination. Has anyone tried this? Is > there some arrangements which are available? I suppose that any lute > duet > could be arranged - ny suggestions? > > Best wishes > > Anthony > ___ > Promoting something? Book this line... email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: making a simple rose
Many thanks for all the suggestions. I did try using some parchment - or that's what the craft shop called it. It just tore, even with a brand new scalpel blade. It was impossible to get any kind of clean line. I'll try, as suggested with some ordinary cardboard. Thanks again. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute +clavichord
I have been reading about Jacob Herriman's duets wth lute and clavichord. This appears to be an interesting combination. Has anyone tried this? Is there some arrangements which are available? I suppose that any lute duet could be arranged - ny suggestions? Best wishes Anthony ___ Promoting something? Book this line... email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Question on Lute stringing
Nick, The exception that proves the rule. > The basic answer is that 63cm is too long to comfortably tune to G at > modern pitch A440. My "flat-back" is 63.5 cm VL, and I tune it to G. But there is no musical string that will hold that at that length. The closest is a nylon string, I've held G without breaking for a day or so, next comes nylgut, that snaps in about a half hour of being tuned to G at that length. But I did find a fishing line (nylon) that holds G at 63.5 cm VL. I'm stuck with the A=440 pitch as I play several other instruments (and sometimes in sequence), and have to match them to an ensemble I play with. Notice that I don't state the guage of the fishing line, or the nylon or nylgut I tried. The guage is irrelevant, in a sense, to the top string (chanterelle). Although a thinner guage requires less tension for the same pitch it is also thinner and therefore has less strength. It is an anomalie of materials that all strings of the same material have the same breaking pitch (given the VL) no matter the guage - and that the most usual strings used have competing characteristics that end up making them all have the approximate same breaking pitch (within about a tone and a half). Even steel falls into that structure. The real point is that a lute has a VL (vibrating length, nut to bridge) that is commensurate with its intended tuning. You can muddle that a bit by finding a particularly strong string for the chanterelle if the instrument is over long (as I've done with the fishing line for my 63.5 mensur). One doesn't increase overall tension significantly that way, it is safe for the instrument. For those who want to get technical, the string has two relevant characteristics. Its density and its tensile strength, where density implies the weight of the material and tensile strength its innate strength under a pull. (This is not entirely exact, but close enough). The breaking point is a combination of the thickness (cross section) and the innate material tensile strenght. (Steel wire rope will hold a stronger pull than hemp rope of the same diameter, but a thicker hemp rope can be stronger than a thnner wire rope - oh yes, I was a sailor). A thick rope will sound a lower pitch under the same tension as a thinner one. Two ropes of equal tension and thickness will have a different pitch if the density is different (the weight per unit length). Let's relate that to musical strings. It is a coincidence that steel wire, gut, nylon and nylgut all have charateristics that (in balance) come out almost the same. Bronze wire is quite different (and it is still used on some instruments). Lutenists aren't interested in steel strings (for good reason, as steel wants a higher tension to get the right sound as it has a higher density, and tensile strength. Gut, nylon and nylgut are so similar that they are only distinguishable (as to tuning pitch, not sound chararcteristics) by a tone to a tone and a half. (I've not worked with gut for breaking pitch yet so I'm not exact). To finish this I'll give the listing of VLs and chanterelle pitches with gut strings from Damiano's Renaissance Lute Method, my own work with nylon and nylgut matches his list (with the modifications of the differences). A 56-58cm (22-23 in) G 60-62cm (23.5-24.5 in) F# 62-64cm (24.5-25 in) F 65-66cm (25.5-26 in) E 67-68 cm (26-26.5 in) These are guidelines, not absolutes. But the maximum pitch for any string material witthout regard to the guage, given the VL, is an absolute. But let us remember that the absolute pitch of A has ranged from as low as 380 to our current standard of 440. But who cares? Nick has a point, you can capo - but if you do so on the lute you should think of it as changing base pitch and the nut, and adjusting your frets if youare in a mean temperament. It matters not if you are playing solo lute what the base pitch is.And if you are playing ensemble you'll have to work that out with the other instruments. For myself the "flat back" that is overly long is a temporary instrument, I'm building another from scratch. Best, Jon > You could tune to G at A=415Hz - ie a semitone lower equivalent to F# > modern pitch - fine for solos and singers and a lot of viol players, but > not for playing with instruments at modern pitch, unless you use a capo > on the first fret- no not very authentic, but very practical. > You could tune it to F, fine for solos and singers, and tone apart duets > with a lute in modern G, but you would need a capo on the first fret to > play with viols at 415. > I have a flamenco style capo made by my lute maker with a peg matched to > the tuning pegs and it works fine. > Be aware though that if you use equal temperament fretting, there is no > problem, but if you use something else like 1.6, mean tone fretting, you > have to move some of the frets a significant distance. I use a piece of > paper with the frets marked on which I slip under the strings to the > nut, and slide along the f
[LUTE] Re: making a simple rose
A parchment or paper rose as on some early guitars might be easiest, though having cut roses on David Van Edwards Lute making course, it is not difficult, just slow and steady with the right tools - there is another course this summer - I don't know if there are any vacancies. Paul Baker of Diabolus in Musica uses a very simple wooden rose in his early guitar that has a paper backing that is cut so as to give a dog tooth effect deep to the wooden triangular pattern. He is at http://diabolus.org/ Nick -Original Message- From: Stuart Walsh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 January 2006 21:34 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] making a simple rose I've dug out some old home-made instruments - small plucked things; very simply made. I just cut out circular sound holes for them. I did try carving inset roses and felt that a monkey on a typewriter would be shoving out the entire corpus of Shakespeare's plays before I got anywhere near making a rose. I'd just like to make a simple design I could glue in with supports. Any ideas on materials, tools, techniques - a bodge job, as we say in Britain - would be much appreciated. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: making a simple rose
Stewart, The rose has no real effect on the sound except as it releases the enclosed sound chamber. That is an incorrect statement, but it is "close enough for government work". The guitar and most other "lute family" stringed instruments have merely the sound hol. But the lute does have a diffential thickness in the sound board that is relevant to the sound. The rose is normally cut into the solid soundboard which is braced according to that plan. The figures in the rose are irrelevant to the sound (except to the extent that they block the reflection out of the soundbox). But if you do a "glue in" you will be changing the vibrating characteristics of the sound board, and the lute. You can buy pre-cut roses from www.musikits.com, and you can set them by making a shoulder on the soundboard (and planing the pre-cut thin), or by making a ring for support and glueing it to the back of the soundboard to support the rose in a simple circular hole. But that latter approach (which I have used on other instruments) will change the stiffness of the soundboard at a sensitive point. I don't recommend it. Go to a woodcarver's site, you have more than a few in the UK (which I could name, but won't for the moment). Woodcarvers sites have chisels of 1/8th inch or less, and mildly curved gouges, that will be quite comfortable in making a rose from the raw soundboard. And after all, if you make a mistake, you can always make it into a simple circle. It is not the open area of the rose that gives the lute its sound, it is the fact of the opening that provides release of the echoing in the soundbox - and the local stiffness of the soundboard that is affected by the soundhole. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: [LUTE] making a simple rose > I've dug out some old home-made instruments - small plucked things; very > simply made. I just cut out circular sound holes for them. > I did try carving inset roses and felt that a monkey on a typewriter > would be shoving out the entire corpus of Shakespeare's plays before I > got anywhere near making a rose. > > I'd just like to make a simple design I could glue in with supports. Any > ideas on materials, tools, techniques - a bodge job, as we say in > Britain - would be much appreciated. > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
