[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute, Accords Nouveaux
There is an edition available frm antiqua editions: http://www.antiqua-edition.de/lautenmusik/barocklaute/0095a30982042.html highly recommended! And for all those who still don't know: The editions of this small editors are very well done. All the best Thomas - Original Message - From: Thomas Walker, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; lute [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:34 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute, Accords Nouveaux Dear Collective Wisdom, I've been tuning my 10 course lute into various sharp flat scordaturas.apparently I miss having a dedicated baroque lute (sold last one in 2005). There are a couple very nice tablatures by Dufaut on the French luth-librarie site-although that site has made my browser do odd things occasionally, has not imparted any malware as I had heard happened to others in the past. So that music whetted my appetite for more. The question is where do I find such editions? Presumably we're talking about acquiring music the old-fashioned way and buying hard copies. Which books, and who sells them? Of course, if I've missed any decent available downloads, I'd appreciate direction to those. In particular, I'd love to get my hands on the pieces by Mesangeau that Bailes records some time ago, in a now-out-of-print record. Yes, I do have Wayne's nice edition..charming pieces, but I personally found the Dufaut from the luth librarie a bit more substantial. Thanks all, Tom Walker, Jr. P.S. Sorry for lurking all this time; every time someone asks a question I know the answer to, I find several worthy replies by others before I get around to contributing an answer myself! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. People argue whether Shakespeare existed. You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of contradiction, that is the standard. If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not to believe it. But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away at the canon--it is an easy target. And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to take down a famous piece because it is famous. Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. Or maybe I'm too attached to it. I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is Bach, and probably always will. Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? dt At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) ooo Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in readings that are eminently superior to almost every other source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the end of the century just because there is no earlier extant copy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye
Is Pastyme with Good Companye really not by Henry the VIII? Excuse this perhaps very silly question from a 17c-iste, but I always assumed it was actually by the great man himself - although there could easily be new information/finds/theories I am not aware of. I note however that the New Grove's still attributes this piece to Henry, although tacitly accepting that the attribution could be challenged: Several of Henry's pieces have connections with continental music, but the extent to which he borrowed from continental composers has been exaggerated. The only demonstrable case of borrowing is *Gentil prince de renom*, where three of the parts are from Petrucci's *Harmonice musices Odhecaton A*(1501), Henry's only contribution being the extremely weak contratenor part. The discantus of *Helas madam* is based on a continental melody, and *En vray amoure* uses a melody found in Comp=E8re and elsewhere, but in both cases the other parts appear to be by Henry, and reveal the characteristics and limitations of his technique. *Adew madam* exists in a slightly improved version as *Time to pas*. Apart from faults such as consecutives and ill-considered doubling of the 3rd (especially in the contratenor), a notable feature of Henry's style is his reliance on passages in parallel 6ths. The four-part pieces with French texts probably date from when he was as young as ten (see Fallows). Their survival is no doubt due more to the celebrity of the composer than to their musical merits. However, the same cannot be said for some of the English pieces, such as *Pastyme with good companye* (the melody of which is found in Richafort's *De mon triste et desplaisir* and could have been borrowed by Richafort rather than the other way round), *Alac alac what shall I do* and *Grene growith the holy*. These songs, robust or plaintive as the case may be, have a memorable beauty all their own. Best, Benjamin On 29/03/2008, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. People argue whether Shakespeare existed. You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of contradiction, that is the standard. If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not to believe it. But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away at the canon--it is an easy target. And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to take down a famous piece because it is famous. Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. Or maybe I'm too attached to it. I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is Bach, and probably always will. Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? dt At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) ooo Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in readings that are eminently superior to almost every other source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the end of the century just because there is no earlier extant copy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Benjamin Narvey Luthiste: http://www.luthiste.com --
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye
How amazing. I never noticed this before. But yes, Francesco's Richafort De mon triste deplaisir (Ness 121) follows the melody of Pastyme right the way through from beginning to end. Anyone know the words of the Richafort? 'De mon triste deplaisir' seems a long way away from 'Pastyme with good companye'! P On 29/03/2008, Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Pastyme with Good Companye really not by Henry the VIII? Excuse this perhaps very silly question from a 17c-iste, but I always assumed it was actually by the great man himself - although there could easily be new information/finds/theories I am not aware of. I note however that the New Grove's still attributes this piece to Henry, although tacitly accepting that the attribution could be challenged: Several of Henry's pieces have connections with continental music, but the extent to which he borrowed from continental composers has been exaggerated. The only demonstrable case of borrowing is *Gentil prince de renom*, where three of the parts are from Petrucci's *Harmonice musices Odhecaton A*(1501), Henry's only contribution being the extremely weak contratenor part. The discantus of *Helas madam* is based on a continental melody, and *En vray amoure* uses a melody found in Comp=E8re and elsewhere, but in both cases the other parts appear to be by Henry, and reveal the characteristics and limitations of his technique. *Adew madam* exists in a slightly improved version as *Time to pas*. Apart from faults such as consecutives and ill-considered doubling of the 3rd (especially in the contratenor), a notable feature of Henry's style is his reliance on passages in parallel 6ths. The four-part pieces with French texts probably date from when he was as young as ten (see Fallows). Their survival is no doubt due more to the celebrity of the composer than to their musical merits. However, the same cannot be said for some of the English pieces, such as *Pastyme with good companye* (the melody of which is found in Richafort's *De mon triste et desplaisir* and could have been borrowed by Richafort rather than the other way round), *Alac alac what shall I do* and *Grene growith the holy*. These songs, robust or plaintive as the case may be, have a memorable beauty all their own. Best, Benjamin On 29/03/2008, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. People argue whether Shakespeare existed. You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of contradiction, that is the standard. If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not to believe it. But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away at the canon--it is an easy target. And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to take down a famous piece because it is famous. Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. Or maybe I'm too attached to it. I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is Bach, and probably always will. Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? dt At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) ooo Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in readings that are eminently superior to almost every other source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the end of the century just because there is no earlier extant copy. To get on or off this list see list information at
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye
- Original Message - From: Peter Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye | How amazing. I never noticed this before. But yes, Francesco's Richafort | De mon triste deplaisir (Ness 121) follows the melody of Pastyme right the | way through from beginning to end. | | Anyone know the words of the Richafort? 'De mon triste deplaisir' seems a | long way away from 'Pastyme with good companye'! oo Take a look at Ness App 32. Is that the first tombeau? It quotes Francesco's parody ricercar on Richafort's chanson, which borrows its tune from a chanson rustique. and so forth A simple setting is in Phalese 1547 and 1563. But there's lots more. Hundreds, perhaps. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === | P | | On 29/03/2008, Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Is Pastyme with Good Companye really not by Henry the VIII? Excuse this | perhaps very silly question from a 17c-iste, but I always assumed it was | actually by the great man himself - although there could easily be new | information/finds/theories I am not aware of. I note however that the New | Grove's still attributes this piece to Henry, although tacitly accepting | that the attribution could be challenged: | | | Several of Henry's pieces have connections with continental music, but | the | extent to which he borrowed from continental composers has been | exaggerated. | The only demonstrable case of borrowing is *Gentil prince de renom*, where | three of the parts are from Petrucci's *Harmonice musices Odhecaton | A*(1501), Henry's only contribution being the extremely weak | contratenor part. | The discantus of *Helas madam* is based on a continental melody, and *En | vray amoure* uses a melody found in Comp=E8re and elsewhere, but in both | cases | the other parts appear to be by Henry, and reveal the characteristics and | limitations of his technique. *Adew madam* exists in a slightly improved | version as *Time to pas*. Apart from faults such as consecutives and | ill-considered doubling of the 3rd (especially in the contratenor), a | notable feature of Henry's style is his reliance on passages in parallel | 6ths. The four-part pieces with French texts probably date from when he | was | as young as ten (see Fallows). Their survival is no doubt due more to the | celebrity of the composer than to their musical merits. However, the same | cannot be said for some of the English pieces, such as *Pastyme with good | companye* (the melody of which is found in Richafort's *De mon triste et | desplaisir* and could have been borrowed by Richafort rather than the | other | way round), *Alac alac what shall I do* and *Grene growith the holy*. | These | songs, robust or plaintive as the case may be, have a memorable beauty all | their own. | Best, | Benjamin | | | On 29/03/2008, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, | and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, | in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. | People argue whether Shakespeare existed. | You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. | You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. | So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of | contradiction, that is the standard. | If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not | to believe it. | But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away | at the canon--it is an easy target. | And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to | take down a famous piece because it is famous. | Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. | Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers | shuffling). | | There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not | Compagna. | Or maybe I'm too attached to it. | I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is | Bach, and probably always will. | Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it | no | more? | | dt | | | At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: | - Original Message - | From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may | not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) | | ooo | | Victor
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye
Well spotted Peter!!! dt At 02:46 AM 3/29/2008, you wrote: How amazing. I never noticed this before. But yes, Francesco's Richafort De mon triste deplaisir (Ness 121) follows the melody of Pastyme right the way through from beginning to end. Anyone know the words of the Richafort? 'De mon triste deplaisir' seems a long way away from 'Pastyme with good companye'! P On 29/03/2008, Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Pastyme with Good Companye really not by Henry the VIII? Excuse this perhaps very silly question from a 17c-iste, but I always assumed it was actually by the great man himself - although there could easily be new information/finds/theories I am not aware of. I note however that the New Grove's still attributes this piece to Henry, although tacitly accepting that the attribution could be challenged: Several of Henry's pieces have connections with continental music, but the extent to which he borrowed from continental composers has been exaggerated. The only demonstrable case of borrowing is *Gentil prince de renom*, where three of the parts are from Petrucci's *Harmonice musices Odhecaton A*(1501), Henry's only contribution being the extremely weak contratenor part. The discantus of *Helas madam* is based on a continental melody, and *En vray amoure* uses a melody found in Comp=E8re and elsewhere, but in both cases the other parts appear to be by Henry, and reveal the characteristics and limitations of his technique. *Adew madam* exists in a slightly improved version as *Time to pas*. Apart from faults such as consecutives and ill-considered doubling of the 3rd (especially in the contratenor), a notable feature of Henry's style is his reliance on passages in parallel 6ths. The four-part pieces with French texts probably date from when he was as young as ten (see Fallows). Their survival is no doubt due more to the celebrity of the composer than to their musical merits. However, the same cannot be said for some of the English pieces, such as *Pastyme with good companye* (the melody of which is found in Richafort's *De mon triste et desplaisir* and could have been borrowed by Richafort rather than the other way round), *Alac alac what shall I do* and *Grene growith the holy*. These songs, robust or plaintive as the case may be, have a memorable beauty all their own. Best, Benjamin On 29/03/2008, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. People argue whether Shakespeare existed. You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of contradiction, that is the standard. If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not to believe it. But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away at the canon--it is an easy target. And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to take down a famous piece because it is famous. Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. Or maybe I'm too attached to it. I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is Bach, and probably always will. Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? dt At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) ooo Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in readings that are eminently superior to almost every other source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the end of the century
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
Dear David, I am finding your message a bit difficult to understand. I do not believe I ever said Pastyme was by Henry VIII. I think the usual way is to say sometimes attr. Henry VIII. As most of us know the tune appears in many guises, one of which is in the Francesco/Pierino orbit, De mon triste, as set by Jean Richafort (that is, according to Howard Mayer Brown, it is a borrowed monophonic chanson rustique melody that Richafort set as a four-voice chanson.). Where did Richafort find it? Similarly many contend that Henry just added words to the French melody. Few know that it also turns up very _surprisingly_ in a lute book by the Paduan priest Melchiore de Barberiis (Venice 1549) under the title Pas de mi bon compagni, which is obviously a macronic misread of the English words. It's one of those wandering melodies. But it is very unusual for an English piece to wander back to the Continent. Barberiis was a papal conunselor and friend of Cardinal Pietro Bembo, and that makes the question more tantalizing. There's an organ setting by Sweelinck (iirc). I think its an organ prelude based on a Latin spalm. A German Lutheran chorale that uses the tune, and Bach among others made a harmonization. I guess the one for Benjamin, would be from _New_ France (Quebec), where the tune appears in a Jesuit hymnal with lyrics in the native American Iroquois language. Did I not say wandering melody? Guess it's as free as the westron wynde. Just don't drink too much and tie one on when you hear it in tavern.g Oh dear, I'm not a very good punster. Of course, Charlotte dug out most of this for a term paper for Jeremy Noble. She perhaps doubled the number of known Pastyme pieces. But there's no conflicting attribution with Francesco's No. 34, nor any reason to question the composer attributions. Unless you have some urge to talk about Leonardo da Vinci's wandering beard. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === - Original Message - From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fingering question | It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, | and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, | in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. | People argue whether Shakespeare existed. | You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. | You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. | So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of | contradiction, that is the standard. | If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not | to believe it. | But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away | at the canon--it is an easy target. | And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to | take down a famous piece because it is famous. | Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. | Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). | | There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. | Or maybe I'm too attached to it. | I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is | Bach, and probably always will. | Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? | | dt | | | At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: | - Original Message - | From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may | not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) | | ooo | | Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the | Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source | has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to | Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th | century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear | in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the | correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective | anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in | between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the | single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents | range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in | readings that are eminently superior to almost every other | source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, | and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the | end of the century just because there is no earlier extant copy. | | | | To get on or off this list see list information at |
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
you gentleman's , you are so B O r i N g.. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
you should discuss with each other via telephono..don't be exibionist please . -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
I rather enjoy learning more about the music I like. Maybe you should join the Nintendo lute society where things move a little quicker. Or start one where the insults move more to your taste. Sean Begin forwarded message: you should discuss with each other via telephono..don't be exibionist please . -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
Sean, I think we're just suffering a visit from Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged. Once he has insulted everyone individually he will move on On 29/03/2008, Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I rather enjoy learning more about the music I like. Maybe you should join the Nintendo lute society where things move a little quicker. Or start one where the insults move more to your taste. Sean Begin forwarded message: you should discuss with each other via telephono..don't be exibionist please . -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin Belle Serre La Caulie 81100 Castres France tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.silvius.co.uk http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ www.myspace.com/sambuca999 www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty --
[LUTE] Private for Ed Martin
Ed, my messages to you keep coming back to me. Do you have another email address. Or can you put my name on an approved list in your anti-spam folder. Charlotte and I will be out for the evening, and I'll contact you tomorrow. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Private for Ed Martin
I am sorry, Art. I do receive each message you are sending. I will try to make it easier for you. My apologies to the list. ed At 05:27 PM 3/29/2008 -0400, Arthur Ness wrote: Ed, my messages to you keep coming back to me. Do you have another email address. Or can you put my name on an approved list in your anti-spam folder. Charlotte and I will be out for the evening, and I'll contact you tomorrow. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: my new theorbo! - pics and sound file
That's a fine instrument, indeed. What are the timbers used? Kingwood for the bowl and beech for the neck? Or does the neck has a pine core? The neck doesn't seem to veneered, but stained black and red inside the pegbox. Urs Leo Rob MacKillop wrote: I brought this home on Tuesday from Malcolm Prior's workshop - a stunning theorbo in A, 85cms string length. I've uploaded a photographic history of its construction, and an mp3 file of Piccinini's Corrente Prima - a slower than I would have liked performance, but I think (hope) you will forgive me! These are difficult instruments to get around on, and I haven't had much time: http://www.rmguitar.info/theorbo.htm This was my first commission for Malcolm Prior, but it certainly won't be my last. He had a 10c ready for shipping to Germany which I fell head over heels in love with. Malcolm has had an on/off/on/off building career these last few years as he twice became a father, but he is now very much back into building lutes, and by all accounts better than ever. I think he has reached the top rank of luthiers. He is currently updating his website, but it is already well worth a visit. Excuse my gushing - I am not on commission - honest! Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Urs Leo Gantenbein Ackeretstrasse 16 CH-8400 Winterthur SWITZERLAND
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
Igor I really find it difficult to understand why someone would make a big deal out of this conversation, it's not like you don't know what the message is about in your email in-box. The simple thing;--- use the delete button. If you don't like the food don't order it from the menu--simple. In the mean time post something you might be interested in or--- is it that you really have nothing to say? - Original Message - From: Peter Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fingering question Sean, I think we're just suffering a visit from Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged. Once he has insulted everyone individually he will move on On 29/03/2008, Sean Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I rather enjoy learning more about the music I like. Maybe you should join the Nintendo lute society where things move a little quicker. Or start one where the insults move more to your taste. Sean Begin forwarded message: you should discuss with each other via telephono..don't be exibionist please . -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin Belle Serre La Caulie 81100 Castres France tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.silvius.co.uk http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ www.myspace.com/sambuca999 www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
Dear Arthur, Never you said you had an opinion about Pastyme, never will. There are, however, some people who vigorously defend Henry's authorship, as I said in the post. The only reason I mentioned the Francesco book was that many lute players have played that tune. Ward covered this many years ago, among many others. dt I am finding your message a bit difficult to understand. I do not believe I ever said Pastyme was by Henry VIII. I think the usual way is to say sometimes attr. Henry VIII. As most of us know the tune appears in many guises, one of which is in the Francesco/Pierino orbit, De mon triste, as set by Jean Richafort (that is, according to Howard Mayer Brown, it is a borrowed monophonic chanson rustique melody that Richafort set as a four-voice chanson.). Where did Richafort find it? Similarly many contend that Henry just added words to the French melody. Few know that it also turns up very _surprisingly_ in a lute book by the Paduan priest Melchiore de Barberiis (Venice 1549) under the title Pas de mi bon compagni, which is obviously a macronic misread of the English words. It's one of those wandering melodies. But it is very unusual for an English piece to wander back to the Continent. Barberiis was a papal conunselor and friend of Cardinal Pietro Bembo, and that makes the question more tantalizing. There's an organ setting by Sweelinck (iirc). I think its an organ prelude based on a Latin spalm. A German Lutheran chorale that uses the tune, and Bach among others made a harmonization. I guess the one for Benjamin, would be from _New_ France (Quebec), where the tune appears in a Jesuit hymnal with lyrics in the native American Iroquois language. Did I not say wandering melody? Guess it's as free as the westron wynde. Just don't drink too much and tie one on when you hear it in tavern.g Oh dear, I'm not a very good punster. Of course, Charlotte dug out most of this for a term paper for Jeremy Noble. She perhaps doubled the number of known Pastyme pieces. But there's no conflicting attribution with Francesco's No. 34, nor any reason to question the composer attributions. Unless you have some urge to talk about Leonardo da Vinci's wandering beard. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === - Original Message - From: David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fingering question | It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, | and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, | in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. | People argue whether Shakespeare existed. | You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. | You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. | So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of | contradiction, that is the standard. | If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not | to believe it. | But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away | at the canon--it is an easy target. | And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to | take down a famous piece because it is famous. | Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. | Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers shuffling). | | There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not Compagna. | Or maybe I'm too attached to it. | I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is | Bach, and probably always will. | Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it no more? | | dt | | | At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: | - Original Message - | From: Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | (One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may | not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) | | ooo | | Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the | Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source | has surfaced for the Compagna ricercar, likewise attributed to | Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th | century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear | in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the | correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective | anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in | between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the | single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents | range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in | readings
[LUTE] Re: Fingering question
Geez that was completely garbled. Obviously I need to adjust my meds, what I meant was I would never mean to imply that Arthur Ness' knowledge of anything is less than truly stellar in all respects. And also, the Francesco book is my favorite lute book. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] theorbo core wood
I've been using redwood for the core and long neck: light, strong, humidity resistant, and no termites. At 03:21 PM 3/29/2008, you wrote: That's a fine instrument, indeed. What are the timbers used? Kingwood for the bowl and beech for the neck? Or does the neck has a pine core? The neck doesn't seem to veneered, but stained black and red inside the pegbox. Urs Leo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
