[LUTE] Re: Les Luths Desperaux.
And here is the sad tune the king plays on his 3 course 3 fretted lute: | 2.3 1 2.3 1 2.3 1 1 2.3 1 2.3 1 1 2 |_c_a_c_d_c_d_a___a_d___c_a_a___c__ |___d_|_|___d_|___a___|_d_c_d_a_|___d_c___|___a___a___|___a___a| |_|_|_|___|_|_|_d___a_|__a___d___a_| |_|___a_|_|___|_|_|___|| |_c___|_|_a_b_|_c___a_|_|_a___|_c_|c___| |_|_a___|_|___|_d___|_|___|| | | |(hammer) | 2.3 1 2.3 1 2.3 1 1 2.3 1 2. 3 1 1 2 |_c_a_c#d_c_d_a___a_f___d_ca_d___c__ |___d_|_|___d_|___|_d_c_d_a_|(c_d_f)_d_|___a___a___|___a___a| |_|_|_|___|_|__|_d___a_|__a___d___a_| |_|___a_|_|_a_|_|__|___|| |_c___|_|_a___|_e_|_|_a|_c_|c___| |_|_a___|_|___|_d___|__|___|| G. - Original Message - From: Christopher Stetson cstet...@email.smith.edu To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 12:53 AM Subject: [LUTE] Les Luths Desperaux. Hello, all, I just returned from viewing The Tale of Desperaux with my 9-year-old son, and can clear up some of the previous questions and speculations regarding the lute that the king plays. In the film, the lute appears three times, the shortest being about 10 seconds, the longest perhaps 45, on and off. It does have six strings and six tuning pegs, a carved rose, and what looks like a tie-on bridge with carved ears much like an early 19th. c. guitar. There are three (!) low, apparently wooden frets, widely spaced, and glued or tacked onto the rather long neck. Perhaps the Kingdom of Dore uses a roughly equal-spaced quadrotonic scale, but the music he plays on it is distinctively of a diatonic, if not chromatic, tinge. Further, his fingering seems to have little to do with either the placement of the frets or the music that his instrument produces. I just wish I could be around in a few hundred years when someone reconstructs it. Best to all, and a happy new year. Chris. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vienna
Hi, in case you'll travel to Vienna in a VERY near future, do NOT miss the Resonanzen festival (17-27 January) and especially the attached Early Music instruments makers exhibition (17-18 January) at the Konzerthaus. Further details on http://konzerthaus.at/hoehepunkte/resonanzen (unfortunately in German only). Where the text says Historischer Instrumentenbau (at the end of the page) you can browse the makers list. Stephen Barber Sandi Harris are there every year, for example, with a number of instruments to try. Saluti da Venezia, Luca ml on 4-01-2009 21:24 wrote: Hi, in the near future I will travel to Vienna (Austria). Besides the many places that interesting city has (in art, music, literature, architecture, psychoanalysis...) I would like to ask this list about any suggestions related with the lute that I can't miss. Thank you very much in advance! Saludos from Barcelona To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Les Luths Desperaux.
Thanks Chris, It does have six strings and six tuning pegs, a carved rose, and what looks like a tie-on bridge with carved ears much like an early 19th. c. guitar. There are three (!) low, apparently wooden frets, widely spaced, and glued or tacked onto the rather long neck. Perhaps the Kingdom of Dore uses a roughly equal-spaced quadrotonic scale, but the music he plays on it is distinctively of a diatonic, if not chromatic, tinge. Further, his fingering seems to have little to do with either the placement of the frets or the music that his instrument produces. I just wish I could be around in a few hundred years when someone reconstructs it. It may be only another couple of years before someone writes a stage-version of 'The Tale of Despareaux'. Then, who knows how this lute might be portrayed. Luthiers could already be working on the technicalities. Or maybe one of us should audition for the role of the king? Best Wishes Ron (UK) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo question
Although I'm primarily interested in Ren music, I haven't been able to resist the temptation to dabble in continuo a bit (we have a continuo group in Seattle, loosely modeled on Pat's Continuo collective). I'm afraid that I might have finally taken complete leave of my senses, as I am now in possession of one of those overly large lutes with too many strings (on loan, but...). I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. Guy -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
Guy, If you have any guitar experience, you already know the chords. From the second string (E) down to the A string, you have the top five strings of the guitar (albeit reentrantly tuned because the top E is an octave lower.) The next four strings represent the diatonic scale from the guitar's open, bottom E up to G. It takes a while to get used to having the bottom string 'spread' like that, but I'm proof that it can be done! Then you just need to concern yourself with the simple task of bringing the top A string into the chord, and working the top two strings into arpeggio patterns which make sense (as they fit between the D string and the b string, which is now the highest in pitch.) So there would be no real reason to consider changing the tuning if, indeed, you have guitar experience and can transfer it in this fashion. Additionally, most of the Theorbo literature that is in Tab and has other instruments playing with it are for an A theorbo, at least of what I've found so far. If you change to G tuning, you will be behind the 8-ball for this literature. If you have no experience with guitar and/or cannot wrap your mind around the warp from guitar to theorbo, and will not be playing anything out of tab, then tuning the theorbo to G is certainly an option. ray On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Guy Smith guy_m_sm...@comcast.net wrote: [clip] I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? [clop] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
I say start relearning. And start enjoying D major and minor and A major and minor as easy chords/tonic home bases. Also, it's good to get used to playing g minor on the theorbo as there is plenty of it (even Caccini and Peri on an A instrument). I think also it's more of an adjustment to use the open strings in the reentrant tuning than to get used to the new pitches of the chords. R. If you still yearn for an instrument in G with long diapasons, you can always get an archlute. R. -Original Message- From: Guy Smith [mailto:guy_m_sm...@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:20 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo question Although I'm primarily interested in Ren music, I haven't been able to resist the temptation to dabble in continuo a bit (we have a continuo group in Seattle, loosely modeled on Pat's Continuo collective). I'm afraid that I might have finally taken complete leave of my senses, as I am now in possession of one of those overly large lutes with too many strings (on loan, but...). I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. Guy -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
On Jan 5, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Guy Smith wrote: I'm afraid that I might have finally taken complete leave of my senses, as I am now in possession of one of those overly large lutes with too many strings (on loan, but...). How long is it? If that's not too personal a question... I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. See the first question. Is the instrument theorbo-sized? i.e. too big to tune the top strings at lute pitch? There's nothing wrong with theorbo in G, though the sound may be a bit tubby; depends on the instrument. Consider one reentrant course instead of two, if you're considering them at all. If you had aspirations of being a professional, the answer would be might as well tune it in A because you need to learn the tuning. For amateurs, especially those who might be slow to acquire the skill of reading in a new tuning, I'd say keep it simple and go with what you know. This also depends on what kind of music you're playing. If you're doing Vivaldi in E major, A tuning makes life easier. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
On 1/5/2009, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: If you're doing Vivaldi in E major, A tuning makes life easier. And it will still be difficult! ;-) Arto PS I recommend theorbo in A; many more manageable keys than in G. But some that are easy in G are horrible in A! The more flats you prefer, the more you choose G tuning, the more sharps, the more you enjoy A tuning. And my more and less are just between 3 flats or sharps... Well 4 flats of F minor work still in G tuning, four sharps of E major I do not enjoy in A tuning, will not play in G tuning... ;.) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
It's relatively small, 140/75 cm (FWIW, it's by Bob Lundberg, but I don't know just when it was made). I have played guitar, albeit not recently, so I do remember at least the more common chords. Maybe making the jump to A tuning is the best bet (it would also simplify some of the details of the loan that don't bear going into here). Thanks, Guy -Original Message- From: howard posner [mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 12:37 PM To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo question On Jan 5, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Guy Smith wrote: I'm afraid that I might have finally taken complete leave of my senses, as I am now in possession of one of those overly large lutes with too many strings (on loan, but...). How long is it? If that's not too personal a question... I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. See the first question. Is the instrument theorbo-sized? i.e. too big to tune the top strings at lute pitch? There's nothing wrong with theorbo in G, though the sound may be a bit tubby; depends on the instrument. Consider one reentrant course instead of two, if you're considering them at all. If you had aspirations of being a professional, the answer would be might as well tune it in A because you need to learn the tuning. For amateurs, especially those who might be slow to acquire the skill of reading in a new tuning, I'd say keep it simple and go with what you know. This also depends on what kind of music you're playing. If you're doing Vivaldi in E major, A tuning makes life easier. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
On Jan 5, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Guy Smith wrote: I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. I think it's a good idea to become familiar with both G and A tunings. I find that chords in flat keys, and also G major of course, fall under the hand better in G tuning, whereas D and A (major and minor) are easier in A tuning. It's initially a question of learning to read bass lines in staff notation on the bass clef, and you can practice that on a renaissance lute in G, as well as on your A instrument. Do you have Nigel North's book on bc playing? davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Fourier measurements of lute sound.
Wow! Nice work. Do you have any screen shots of the Fourier analysis? On Jan 2, 2009, at 7:01 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: Using computerized Fourier analysis, I measured spectra of lute sound, using all strings in courses 1-6, plucked with good tone. Several unexpected features cropped up. 1. The pitch of a harmonic often shifts over the duration of the note, up to 10 cents. 2. The volumes of the harmonics often change relative to each other. Sometimes this can be a strong and surprising effect, as when the fundamental is basically absent during the initial 0.3 second, and then assumes dominance over the harmonics as the note dies away. 3. The harmonics' pitches are not consistent with each other, especially during the initial 0.3 second. For example, the fundamental can be at -4 cents, and the first harmonic (an octave above the fundamental) can be at +4 cents. These observations provide an ample hypothesis for tuner instability, but unfortunately suggest no solution. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Vienna
On Monday 05 January 2009, Luca Manassero rattled on the keyboard: Hi, in case you'll travel to Vienna in a VERY near future, do NOT miss the Resonanzen festival (17-27 January) and especially the attached Early Music instruments makers exhibition (17-18 January) at the Konzerthaus. Further details on http://konzerthaus.at/hoehepunkte/resonanzen (unfortunately in German only). Where the text says Historischer Instrumentenbau (at the end of the page) you can browse the makers list. Stephen Barber Sandi Harris are there every year, for example, with a number of instruments to try. Saluti da Venezia, Luca and also beautiful baroque violins and violas built by my wife Tanja Brandon http://www.brandonvioolbouw.nl End of commercial. Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
