[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
Dear Mathias, It's interesting you say that. I'd be curious to know what you and other people on this list think about the differences (advantages/disadvantages) between rider lutes and swan neck lutes. I think the main difference between these lute types is one of balance vs. extra resonance. Very tough call. And transportation issues...I already have some problems with my 11c on certain flights. Does anyone have anything to add on this count? I think swan necks win hands down here... I actually began playing baroque lute on a borrowed 13c rider lute, but it has been so long since I've had one that I'm not sure I can still trust those initial impressions. Sadly, I've never had both types together to make a comparison. I must say that I like 11c lutes better than 13c lutes so far, but then this might be simply because these are the lutes that modern makers are getting right. All best, Benjamin I'm one of the culprits. Or I was, that is. My first BL just had to be a swan-neck, it couldn't be else. It was so impressive to impress other people ^_^ Today, I'd love to sell it and get me a normal 13c bass rider lute. Swan necks don't offer proper advantages IMHO. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net schrieb: In some music I've been playing recently (Losy, Lauffensteiner) which was written for 11-c, I'm very glad to have that open B-flat available on my 13-c. It does make life a lot easier. Lauffensteiner's lute assumedly had 12 courses as evidenced by Haselmere II B 2 (p. 14. 23-24. 28. 153-6), Munich 5362 (f. 21v. 36-40v). Nevertheless, he makes use of 5 only when required by voice-leading. Which can be taken to suggest that his conception of the lute was not that of a droning bass instrument. Both the sonata and the duet in A major (both Augsburg) as well as the concerto in G minor (Brussels) even require lutes with 13 courses, but I'm suspicious they're later adaptations. The voice of dissent on that point, however, seems to be that some players prefer to play the French-styled repertoire on the lighter-sounding 11-c instrument. My voice of dissent for one would be that two additional courses change the conception of the instrument. The is lute changed into a bass instrument, kind of a theorbo. From the players I've met who have played only Baroque lute (not many, admittedly), I've never heard a complaint, no matter how hard the music was. Unfortunately, they are not exactly numerous. What IMHO makes baroque lute music difficult, indeed, is that there's so much more to the intended music than what is written. Take e. g. the Rhétorique des Dieux. Its tablatures present the skeleton of the music. To play from the Rhétorique as is would be like humming instead of singing a song. There are so many matters of taste and esprit, gestures to be recognized, ornaments to be added, voices to be led. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
Benjamin Narvey luthi...@gmail.com schrieb: It's interesting you say that. I'd be curious to know what you and other people on this list think about the differences (advantages/disadvantages) between rider lutes and swan neck lutes. As far as I can see, the only proper advantage of swan-necked solo lutes is that you can take the same strings for courses 6 to 8 as for courses 9 to 11, as Mimmo has pointed out. That is negligible, however, as these courses last eternally (as for my confined experience). One disadvantage clearly is that you cannot stop the courses 9 to 11 as now and then required in solo music. I think the main difference between these lute types is one of balance vs. extra resonance. Very tough call. Yes definitely. Might be good for continuo. Yet it cannot keep up with archlutes or theorbos which I prefer for that purpose at any rate. That's why they built those large German 14c theorbos, probably. And transportation issues...I already have some problems with my 11c on certain flights. Does anyone have anything to add on this count? I think swan necks win hands down here... Because of the reflexed pegbox, you meant to suggest? Well, either way you need an extra seat, it's impossible to jolt a swan-neck case (or an 11c case) into one of those modern oberhead compartments. As for my 11c, there was a friendly stewardess on my way to Prague who took it with her into the cabin compartment. And in Turkey, everyone used to know what it is without opening the case (as opposed to the German airports where it was suspiciously observed). Mathias I actually began playing baroque lute on a borrowed 13c rider lute, but it has been so long since I've had one that I'm not sure I can still trust those initial impressions. Sadly, I've never had both types together to make a comparison. I must say that I like 11c lutes better than 13c lutes so far Ben, I'll treat you to a beer next time we meet, I promise. but then this might be simply because these are the lutes that modern makers are getting right. All best, Benjamin I'm one of the culprits. Or I was, that is. My first BL just had to be a swan-neck, it couldn't be else. It was so impressive to impress other people ^_^ Today, I'd love to sell it and get me a normal 13c bass rider lute. Swan necks don't offer proper advantages IMHO. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sautscheck als ein Gallego
GIGA Gaitas Compostelanas, in Bb - http://torban.org/swv/compostelana/compostelana2.pdf http://torban.org/swv/compostelana/compostelana2.mp3 para laúd barroco. Saludos, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Morley consort lessons
Hi Sam, I've got photocopies of the 1611 Morley edition kept in the New York Public Library. Not first lass quality but readable. I could scan these but it may take some time to do. Is there any particular piece (or pieces) you're interested in ? Best, my regards to Ian when you see him in Basel ! Jean-Marie Poirier === 13-01-2009 00:17:22 === Does anyone have a facsimile copy of the treble viol part for the Morley consort lessons? It's missing from EEBO and various microfilm collections...any leads would be much appreciated! Also, Ian Harwood will be giving a lecture on the mixed consort at the Schola Cantorum in Basel this Thursday at 6pm. As part of the lecture, my group Microcosmos will be making their debut performance. On the following Friday and Saturday Ian will be coaching the group and listeners are very welcome! -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mai l. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr http://poirierjm.free.fr 13-01-2009 --
[LUTE] Re: Lutes were the earliest form of guitar developed in the thirteenth century
The internet is a bathroom wall. Gary - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lutes were the earliest form of guitar developed in the thirteenth century Lute and guitar history - th cutting edge: http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/4478.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1885 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 7:59 PM
[LUTE] Re: Morley consort lessons
Sam; I have uploaded a zip file with photos of the complete Treble Viol Book (Morley, 1611) done after my photocopies. I think they are big enough to be used for reading or printing. You can get the file by clicking there : http://le.luth.free.fr/Morley.htm Then, just right click on the link and save as a zip file on your hard disk. Hope it helps ! Best wishes, Jean-Marie === 13-01-2009 00:17:22 === Does anyone have a facsimile copy of the treble viol part for the Morley consort lessons? It's missing from EEBO and various microfilm collections...any leads would be much appreciated! Also, Ian Harwood will be giving a lecture on the mixed consort at the Schola Cantorum in Basel this Thursday at 6pm. As part of the lecture, my group Microcosmos will be making their debut performance. On the following Friday and Saturday Ian will be coaching the group and listeners are very welcome! -- Sam Chapman Oetlingerstrasse 65 4057 Basel (0041) 79 530 39 91 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr http://poirierjm.free.fr 13-01-2009
[LUTE] Re: Software comparison
I would say that I was at the meeting when these were presented and this list is really not intended to be definitive. Monica - Original Message - From: Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Software comparison Wow--this guy really missed a lot with Wayne's tab: such as ornaments, right and left hand fingerings, beaming. Whoever compiled this spreadsheet, if you are reading, please check out the TAB manual at Wayne's site and see what you've missed. Regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Micrologus was Morley consort lessons
This is not really part of this thread but... associations happen. On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Sam Chapman wrote: As part of the lecture, my group Microcosmos will be making their debut performance. That is similar to the name Micrologus, an early music group based in Paris. The lutenist/leader that came here (Tokyo) twice with that group, performing early music and dance, is named Mark Tallet. Anyone know of him? It has been quite a number of years now so they may well have disbanded but I really enjoyed their performances. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Micrologus was Morley consort lessons
Hello Ed, Micrologus have not officially disbanded, but they haven't performed for quite a few years now, which in fact means the same... I have never met Marc Tallet personnally but heard of him through the lady violist who probably was the one you heard in Tokyo, Danièle Alpers. She is in fact a regular member of my ensemble Le Trésor d'Orphée. You can check it up there and see if you remenber her : http://tresordorphee.free.fr. I have done a number of gigs with Jean-Louis Bindi who was most certainly the singer in this Tokyo performance you mention... Early music is a small world, isn't it ? Best wishes, Jean-Marie Poirier === 13-01-2009 13:56:15 === This is not really part of this thread but... associations happen. On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Sam Chapman wrote: As part of the lecture, my group Microcosmos will be making their debut performance. That is similar to the name Micrologus, an early music group based in Paris. The lutenist/leader that came here (Tokyo) twice with that group, performing early music and dance, is named Mark Tallet. Anyone know of him? It has been quite a number of years now so they may well have disbanded but I really enjoyed their performances. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr http://poirierjm.free.fr 13-01-2009
[LUTE] Re: Micrologus was Morley consort lessons
I remember Marc Tallet playing archicister (made by Bernard Prunier, the famous violmaker in the '80s) on Mood Indigo and others Ellington's standards, with Bernard on the clarinet and me on the harpsichord, at Bernard's workshop...I think Mathieu Lusson (in short pants!) played bass viol (pizz way) and I wonder if Bindi wasn't there...Long time ago! --- En date de : Mar 13.1.09, Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr a A(c)crit : De: Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr Objet: [LUTE] Re: Micrologus was Morley consort lessons A: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Mardi 13 Janvier 2009, 14h29 Hello Ed, Micrologus have not officially disbanded, but they haven't performed for quite a few years now, which in fact means the same... I have never met Marc Tallet personnally but heard of him through the lady violist who probably was the one you heard in Tokyo, DaniD-YENle Alpers. She is in fact a regular member of my ensemble Le TrD-sor d'OrphD-e. You can check it up there and see if you remenber her : http://tresordorphee.free.fr. I have done a number of gigs with Jean-Louis Bindi who was most certainly the singer in this Tokyo performance you mention... Early music is a small world, isn't it ? Best wishes, Jean-Marie Poirier === 13-01-2009 13:56:15 === This is not really part of this thread but... associations happen. On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Sam Chapman wrote: As part of the lecture, my group Microcosmos will be making their debut performance. That is similar to the name Micrologus, an early music group based in Paris. The lutenist/leader that came here (Tokyo) twice with that group, performing early music and dance, is named Mark Tallet. Anyone know of him? It has been quite a number of years now so they may well have disbanded but I really enjoyed their performances. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr http://poirierjm.free.fr 13-01-2009 NaNOTaCURa'D-YENaaCURNaCURaa+-a D-aa 1/4D--obA^2D-+aYENabavaaNiD--aD-0D-DEGD--oj a(c)faD-ayNA(c)D-DEGaYEN?aD-^iNaA.D-NOTauD-aaCURi --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:02 AM, sterling price wrote: ...For me, after playing a 13 course for many years, I wouldn't dream of playing an instrument that didn't have an octave of open bass strings. In some music I've been playing recently (Losy, Lauffensteiner) which was written for 11-c, I'm very glad to have that open B-flat available on my 13-c. It does make life a lot easier. The voice of dissent on that point, however, seems to be that some players prefer to play the French-styled repertoire on the lighter-sounding 11-c instrument. ...it certainly doesn't deserve the reputation it has. That's for sure. There seems to be some kind of mystique that surrounds the Baroque lute, created in part I think by renaissance players who find themselves swimming in very different waters when they play Baroque music. The music itself, the technique, the tuning and the instrument itself are a different world than that of renaissance lute. Actually, the only lutenists I've ever heard complaining about, or shying away from, that decadent, late-period Baroque lute came from the ranks of renaissance players. From the players I've met who have played only Baroque lute (not many, admittedly), I've never heard a complaint, no matter how hard the music was. I think the 13 course lute is a remarkable achievment the result of many centuries of progression. To continue to label it as it had been in the 18th century til now as something -so- difficult is really 'bad for business'. I think 18th-century music in general is a difficult proposition. It seems to me to have been misunderstood for a long time, first by the Romantics, then by academia. In our post-post-post-ultrapost-modern perception today, perhaps we are making some progress towards a more syncretic understanding of Baroque music. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Micrologus was Morley consort lessons
On Jan 13, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: Hello Ed, Micrologus have not officially disbanded, but they haven't performed for quite a few years now, which in fact means the same... I have never met Marc Tallet personnally but heard of him through the lady violist who probably was the one you heard in Tokyo, Danièle Alpers. Oh dear, was there a violist? I don't remember. I thought there was a viola da gambist. I went and met Marc at the hotel and had a jam. I was rather surprised he didn't read from tab. He could sight read a storm from notation though. He is a composer as well as lutenist. She is in fact a regular member of my ensemble Le Trésor d'Orphée. You can check it up there and see if you remenber her : http:// tresordorphee.free.fr. I have done a number of gigs with Jean-Louis Bindi who was most certainly the singer in this Tokyo performance you mention... He is awesome. Very dramatic and like two people in one the way he switches from soprano to bass. Good visual sense for the costumes also. Early music is a small world, isn't it ? Yes, it is. That pleases me most of the time. cheers, Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
