[LUTE] Re: Tuning
Ron, I love your comment on this subject! :-) Arto On 25/06/12 16:13, Ron Andrico wrote: I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM,willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. Bill On 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butlerakbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
Thanks, Arto. I'm glad to know there are other happy existentialists out there, riffing on the absurdity of it all. Ron Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 22:35:41 +0300 To: praelu...@hotmail.com CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning Ron, I love your comment on this subject! :-) Arto On 25/06/12 16:13, Ron Andrico wrote: I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM,willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. Bill On 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butlerakbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- --
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: Thanks, Arto. I'm glad to know there are other happy existentialists out there, riffing on the absurdity of it all. Well, one person's absurdity is another's physical science. When I do stroll gigs, I've found that if I stroll too fast the Doppler effect wreaks havoc with my pitch. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
Is the Doppler effect what happens when you pitch a theorbo end over end? Is it the Droppler effect if the strap comes undone? Is it undone if it's rare? Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:37:37 -0700 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: Thanks, Arto. I'm glad to know there are other happy existentialists out there, riffing on the absurdity of it all. Well, one person's absurdity is another's physical science. When I do stroll gigs, I've found that if I stroll too fast the Doppler effect wreaks havoc with my pitch. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: Is the Doppler effect what happens when you pitch a theorbo end over end? Pitching a theorbo end over end is an ahistorical practice because it's possible only with a toy theorbo. Maybe Randy Johnson could pitch a theorbo that way... Is it the Droppler effect if the strap comes undone? Technically yes, but unless you're standing on the edge of a third-story balcony when it happens, the effect is too transitory to be of musical significance Is it undone if it's rare? I'm not sure, but I know it's not well done if it's rare. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
As we said many times when I was in college, pluck it! T Ron, I love your comment on this subject! :-) Arto On 25/06/12 16:13, Ron Andrico wrote: I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM,willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. Bill On 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butlerakbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
