[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Wise words, Franz Whilst still at Conservatory, we had the opportunity of having lessons with many of the great musicians in early music. Not all were great teachers. But if we prepared ourselves well, we could get the best out of any lesson by asking the right questions and preparing the right pieces. Know your audience and prepare yourself for them. In other words, a good lesson can be like giving a good concert. David On 15 December 2013 05:46, Franz Mechsner [1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de wrote: A quick addition to my earlier note. When I taught at the university I now and then was confronted with students who would not agree to my fundamental views, or even had an attitude toward science which I considered superficial and ill-educated. Obviously I tended to consider my own decade-long efforts a guarantee that I was certainly right and these students wrong. So my attitude towards the problem was These guys are not so intelligent and dedicated as it should be, and therefore I will not work with them rather than These guys would not follow my way, and therefore I am angry. In any case, a dismissive attitude against some students would certainly send a signal to all students to behave obediently in order to please me. Bad thing of course, as my intention was to stimulate own thinking and creativity thus doubting and contradicting the teacher should be encouraged and even embraced rather than implicitly forbidden. So I had to educate myself to always take the student seriously, even if I think he or she is not worth the trouble. You can always ask the student why he or she holds a certain view or act a certain way and learn from it or/and explain your own view in a friendly manner. I think Segovia had dedicated so much genius and effort into his views on music, interpretations, fingerings etc. that he was unable to imagine that a student could have done better, or simply could have done what is best for him at that point in his or her development. Some teachers think, students should follow them first then develop their own ideas, while others consider developing the students own mind so important that they should dare to think and get better in this over time - you have to start after all, allow yourself and be allowed to make errors of course - no need to be perfect from the beginning, and no justification to be looked upon for own thinking and being gratified for obedience. To support and encourage the students here even if it leads to that they may contradict you is certainly one of the great challenges for a teacher. Best Franz -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Segovia's early years seem to be unclear. Does anybody know where he learned to play? Did he study with a master? Most of us need to stand on the shoulders of giants, one way or another. Nowadays we are fortunate to be able to attend summer schools where we can have a lesson with the best lutenists (- though as David has pointed out, not all are the best teachers :D ). Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection
Dear David, thanks for your fine words. So what is the best way to teach and learn an instrument, say: the lute? Are there general advices? Differences from children and amateurs to serious students? Differences from the less comfortable situation of a teacher feeling the need or even dependent on that the student attends his or her lessons to the more comfortable situation where the students feel the need of even dependent on having this teacher? ... In the course of my (rather serious but still amateurish) guitar and lute lessons my (always very friendly and supportive) teachers usually explained me how things should best be done, scribbeled advice into my sheet music, added or even changed fingerings with his pen, explaining (but not always) why this way of playing was how it should be done. I was virtually never asked to work out an interpretation by myself and justify it, open to his or her advice and correction of course. I would actually have been extremely challenged to do so, as I hadn't the knowledge and the mental means. As it seems, that was the easy way for the teachers as well who seem to have taken this method for granted. Very curious to learn what you would add from your experience and thought Franz --- Dr. Franz Mechsner Zum Kirschberg 40 D-14806 Belzig OT Borne franz.mechs...@gmx.de +49(0)33841-441362 Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Dezember 2013 um 10:24 Uhr Von: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com An: Kein Empfaenger Cc: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Wise words, Franz Whilst still at Conservatory, we had the opportunity of having lessons with many of the great musicians in early music. Not all were great teachers. But if we prepared ourselves well, we could get the best out of any lesson by asking the right questions and preparing the right pieces. Know your audience and prepare yourself for them. In other words, a good lesson can be like giving a good concert. David On 15 December 2013 05:46, Franz Mechsner [1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de wrote: A quick addition to my earlier note. When I taught at the university I now and then was confronted with students who would not agree to my fundamental views, or even had an attitude toward science which I considered superficial and ill-educated. Obviously I tended to consider my own decade-long efforts a guarantee that I was certainly right and these students wrong. So my attitude towards the problem was These guys are not so intelligent and dedicated as it should be, and therefore I will not work with them rather than These guys would not follow my way, and therefore I am angry. In any case, a dismissive attitude against some students would certainly send a signal to all students to behave obediently in order to please me. Bad thing of course, as my intention was to stimulate own thinking and creativity thus doubting and contradicting the teacher should be encouraged and even embraced rather than implicitly forbidden. So I had to educate myself to always take the student seriously, even if I think he or she is not worth the trouble. You can always ask the student why he or she holds a certain view or act a certain way and learn from it or/and explain your own view in a friendly manner. I think Segovia had dedicated so much genius and effort into his views on music, interpretations, fingerings etc. that he was unable to imagine that a student could have done better, or simply could have done what is best for him at that point in his or her development. Some teachers think, students should follow them first then develop their own ideas, while others consider developing the students own mind so important that they should dare to think and get better in this over time - you have to start after all, allow yourself and be allowed to make errors of course - no need to be perfect from the beginning, and no justification to be looked upon for own thinking and being gratified for obedience. To support and encourage the students here even if it leads to that they may contradict you is certainly one of the great challenges for a teacher. Best Franz -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
On 2013-12-14 03:53, David van Ooijen wrote: I don't see any bullying here, as uncomfortable as it is to watch. And in the student's discussion of the event, he says Segovia's criticisms and behavior were justified and an eye opener. That same student later plays for Segovia who praises his performance. Gary This is referred to often: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiAbqfaYGwk David *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Did Michael Chapdelaine tell IN WHICH REGARD his eyes were opened by Segovia's behaviour? Did he explain WHAT he learned? Is it obvious WHY his playing pleased the maestro afterwards? Is there any INSIGHT or only a clever guy trying to accomodate to a brutal social game? My first guess upon watching the video would actually be: The student felt an urgent or even burning need to be taken serious and even be praised by Segovia and was totally shocked by his reaction. He was speechless in the situation, humiliated and probably very angry against Segovia, but without expressing his feelings. Then he coped very quickly by understanding what he had to say and how he had to play in a renewed effort to be welcomed in the family. And he cleverly did so. So it looks to me. Best Franz --- Dr. Franz Mechsner Zum Kirschberg 40 D-14806 Belzig OT Borne franz.mechs...@gmx.de +49(0)33841-441362 Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Dezember 2013 um 11:07 Uhr Von: gary magg...@sonic.net An: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 2013-12-14 03:53, David van Ooijen wrote: I don't see any bullying here, as uncomfortable as it is to watch. And in the student's discussion of the event, he says Segovia's criticisms and behavior were justified and an eye opener. That same student later plays for Segovia who praises his performance. Gary This is referred to often: [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiAbqfaYGwk David *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [3][2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiAbqfaYGwk 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection
Now wouldn't that be something? A magic formula for every teacher-student combination? To learn any instrument, you'll need to study an extended period of time with a teacher who's good at teaching you a solid technique. To become a good musician, you'll need to work with teachers who can help you to develop your own musicality into playing that will speak to an audience. It goes without saying that first and foremost you'll need to bring your own dedication and motivation, as no teacher can do that for you. I think a regular lesson with your reacher should be quite different from an incidental lesson at a workshop or masterclass. Prepare these lessons differently. David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
I've heard that Segovia's response to Julian Bream's success was, An Englishman playing guitar is an abomination, although I don't think that constitutes bullying, just the crankiness of an extremely opinionated man whose opinions were not always correct. Bream later dedicated an entire album in homage to Segovia. I saw Segovia in concert five times and each performance was magnificent. It was his recordings that drew me to the guitar. It was Bream who introduced me to the lute. On Dec 14, 2013, at 3:44 AM, gary magg...@sonic.net wrote: Recently, a message was posted referring to Andres Segovia as a bully. I think that's a little harsh, I know it's become popular to bash Segovia and that he had a huge ego, but I don't recall him actually bullying anyone into agreeing with his views. There were stories about him rigging competitions in favor of his chosen disciples and otherwise throwing his weight around, but it would be hard to confirm things like that, because people (other than Michael Chapdelaine, I suppose) don't like to admit to being bullied, and Segovia's cult of personality was such that it wasn't in the interest of anyone in the classical guitar community to criticize him openly. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection!!
Pity help anyone in the future trying to find something about the Bream Collection The majority of the comments bear no connection to the subject but seem to be based on much conjecture and sometime ,wishful thinking. Sure, discuss technique etc but please give an appropriate heading Tom. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
On 15/12/13 4:47 AM, William Samson wrote: Segovia's early years seem to be unclear. Does anybody know where he learned to play? Did he study with a master? The Wikipedia article on Segovia gives some of his early history, though I don't know how reliable it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andres_Segovia#Early_life Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada http://www.gaherty.ca http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection
On 15/12/13 5:41 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: To learn any instrument, you'll need to study an extended period of time with a teacher who's good at teaching you a solid technique. To become a good musician, you'll need to work with teachers who can help you to develop your own musicality into playing that will speak to an audience. It goes without saying that first and foremost you'll need to bring your own dedication and motivation, as no teacher can do that for you. Most of what I've learned about playing the lute has come from weekly lessons over a period of years with two fine teachers, Terry McKenna and Richard Kolb. I was lucky to have regular contact with two excellent musicians who were also excellent teachers, and with quite different styles. I think a regular lesson with your reacher should be quite different from an incidental lesson at a workshop or masterclass. Prepare these lessons differently. Having been a student and teacher in several different subject areas, I was quite horrified to discover the musical torture chamber known as the master class. I simply can't understand why any sane person would put themselves through this sort of public humiliation. I can't even stand to attend master classes, let alone perform in one. I attend workshops regularly, and find my greatest pleasure in ensemble playing. My greatest learning has been in individual classes with the likes of Pat O'Brien and Lyle Nordstrom, especially where they took a piece I had been working on and gave me new insight into it. I particularly treasure an hour with Pat studying Go from my Window on lute, and a similar hour with Lyle on the bandora part for the Lachrimae consort lesson. Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada http://www.gaherty.ca http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection
I had many teachers for guitar and one for lute. Only Allan Alexander taught ergonomic and tonal techniques, whereas he others were all about speed and repeating scales (or their own exercises). Only Allan taught simple but real music, rather than children's tunes (for the adult learner). -Original Message- From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@gmx.de To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Cc: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, Dec 15, 2013 4:58 am Subject: [LUTE] Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection Dear David, thanks for your fine words. So what is the best way to teach and learn an instrument, say: the lute? Are there general advices? Differences from children and amateurs to serious students? Differences from the less comfortable situation of a teacher feeling the need or even dependent on that the student attends his or her lessons to the more comfortable situation where the students feel the need of even dependent on having this teacher? ... In the course of my (rather serious but still amateurish) guitar and lute lessons my (always very friendly and supportive) teachers usually explained me how things should best be done, scribbeled advice into my sheet music, added or even changed fingerings with his pen, explaining (but not always) why this way of playing was how it should be done. I was virtually never asked to work out an interpretation by myself and justify it, open to his or her advice and correction of course. I would actually have been extremely challenged to do so, as I hadn't the knowledge and the mental means. As it seems, that was the easy way for the teachers as well who seem to have taken this method for granted. Very curious to learn what you would add from your experience and thought Franz --- Dr. Franz Mechsner Zum Kirschberg 40 D-14806 Belzig OT Borne franz.mechs...@gmx.de +49(0)33841-441362 Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Dezember 2013 um 10:24 Uhr Von: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com An: Kein Empfaenger Cc: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Wise words, Franz Whilst still at Conservatory, we had the opportunity of having lessons with many of the great musicians in early music. Not all were great teachers. But if we prepared ourselves well, we could get the best out of any lesson by asking the right questions and preparing the right pieces. Know your audience and prepare yourself for them. In other words, a good lesson can be like giving a good concert. David On 15 December 2013 05:46, Franz Mechsner [1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de wrote: A quick addition to my earlier note. When I taught at the university I now and then was confronted with students who would not agree to my fundamental views, or even had an attitude toward science which I considered superficial and ill-educated. Obviously I tended to consider my own decade-long efforts a guarantee that I was certainly right and these students wrong. So my attitude towards the problem was These guys are not so intelligent and dedicated as it should be, and therefore I will not work with them rather than These guys would not follow my way, and therefore I am angry. In any case, a dismissive attitude against some students would certainly send a signal to all students to behave obediently in order to please me. Bad thing of course, as my intention was to stimulate own thinking and creativity thus doubting and contradicting the teacher should be encouraged and even embraced rather than implicitly forbidden. So I had to educate myself to always take the student seriously, even if I think he or she is not worth the trouble. You can always ask the student why he or she holds a certain view or act a certain way and learn from it or/and explain your own view in a friendly manner. I think Segovia had dedicated so much genius and effort into his views on music, interpretations, fingerings etc. that he was unable to imagine that a student could have done better, or simply could have done what is best for him at that point in his or her development. Some teachers think, students should follow them first then develop their own ideas, while others consider developing the students own mind so important that they should dare to think and get better in this over time - you have to start after all, allow yourself and be allowed to make errors of course - no need to be perfect from the beginning, and no justification to be looked upon for own thinking and being gratified for obedience. To support and encourage the students here even if it leads to that they may contradict you is certainly one of the great challenges for a teacher. Best
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Howard, On Sun, 12/15/13, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: In Segovia's edition of Sor studies (which features Segovia's name in much bigger type than Sor's on the cover) he changed it to con calma. Up yours, Fernando... It was shown some time ago that Segovia did not use Sor's original versions in making his edition of the 20 studies. Instead, he knew them through versions edited by Sor's student Napoleon Coste. I don't know whether Coste or Segovia introduced the change you mention as I've never cross-referenced them. While we may frown on Segovia's slack research methodology, at the time it would have been quite acceptable. (It is apparently acceptable today, as the 20 Studies are still in print and still obligatory pedagogical material for classical guitarists.) But this does serve as another example of Segovia's massive influence: These 20 studies out of the considerable number (hundreds?) written by Sor are the only ones known to 99% of guitarists, simply because they feature his name on the cover. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com Some teachers think, students should follow them first then develop their own ideas, Some of Segovia's master class students were better players than he was, and in any other context, the master tossing a student out of a master class because the student didn't religiously follow the master's transcription (even the portamento inserted into a transcription of a piano piece) would be a grotesque absurdity. But of course, for many of those students the point of being in Segovia's class was to put student of Segovia on their resumes -- as if it actually meant something other than I played in his master class -- and perhaps even get some sort of testimonial. So I suppose the rules were different. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection
Last summer, while passively experiencing one of the many instructional videos of Prof. Robert Greenberg of the San Francisco conservatory, I learned that the master class was invented by peripatetic peacock Franz Liszt, who seems to have helped create the 18th c. mythology of the deified solo musical genius. In a short period of extreme effort, he established himself as a piano prodigy in Europe and later became such an admirer of syphilitic imaginatarian Wagner. Last January, I saw a guitar master class presented by Nigel North after he gave a concert of Dowland and Francesco at Loyola Marymount Univ. I was flabbergasted at the consummate skill with which Nigel handled this event. One of the participating students was a well known but young Hungarian guitarist who dashed off a brilliant and difficult Bach lute suite section (I apologize for not being able to remember which BWV number) leaving Nigel speechless. But Nigel was just as skillful as any of the students, picking up a guitar, playing a passage beautifully, then saying but I don't play the guitar which made me chuckle. Personally, I think master classes are fake classes where insecure famous professionals intimidate younger budding artists into thinking that they are inferior, forever, to the great master, whose feet are actually made of clay. Maybe Nigel is an exception. Mark Seifert From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: Cc: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:41 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Inspired Teaching and Learning. Was: Bream Collection Now wouldn't that be something? A magic formula for every teacher-student combination? To learn any instrument, you'll need to study an extended period of time with a teacher who's good at teaching you a solid technique. To become a good musician, you'll need to work with teachers who can help you to develop your own musicality into playing that will speak to an audience. It goes without saying that first and foremost you'll need to bring your own dedication and motivation, as no teacher can do that for you. I think a regular lesson with your reacher should be quite different from an incidental lesson at a workshop or masterclass. Prepare these lessons differently. David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Segovia whatever
On Dec 15, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote: I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, I certainly agree about his rhythm (and unless you've heard his recordings from around 1930 you don't know the half of it), but he pulled a lot of sound out of the guitar. In 1977, I heard him in the 3,200-seat Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, a cavernous and not particularly resonant space where the LA Philharmonic played until 2003. He was 84, and obviously having memory or concentration problems, so what he played often bore only a passing resemblance to what the composer wrote. But he was quite audible, for better or worse. Mostly worse. I had never heard him live before -- though I was warned what to expect -- and as someone with pretensions, however small, of being a guitarist, I was embarrassed for my instrument. Apparently Segovia read my review of that concert in the Los Angeles Times a couple days later, and threatened (I don't know to whom) never to return to Los Angeles. You made a lot of people very happy, someone at the Times told me. He's a hateful old man. The Times music critic, Martin Bernheimer, was not among those I made happy. He'd reviewed Segovia's LA concert the previous year, and wrote what most critics were writing about Segovia: the guitar's a joke and there's no good music for it, but Segovia's definitely the greatest. Bernheimer was understandably miffed about being made to look foolish by his newest and youngest stringer (I was 20 at the time). That review eventually finished me as a Times stringer, a career in which I could have earned hundreds of dollars a year. The subject of how much Segovia helped create the classical guitar's popularity and how much he caught the wave at the right time can be discussed endlessly, but we should not forget 1) that the classical music establishment looked at Segovia, and the guitar, with much condescension, and 2) that he brought some disrepute on the instrument by atrocious performances in his later years, when someone less egotistical would have realized it was time to retire. Of course, his concerts in the 1930's or 1950's could have been embarrassments as well; I wouldn't know. But Segovia was helped a lot by talking dog effect: he was hailed as the greatest classical guitarist by lots of people who had no idea there were any others. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
The scholarly thought has it rather that he jumped on Llobet's bandwagon. RT On 12/15/2013 1:52 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Segovia whatever
I heard both Segovia and Bream in the Stockholm Concert-hall in the early 70's and was of course highly impressed. But naturally, we were all in awe in those days. It was like being in heaven, sitting at the feet of the greatest of masters whom we all revered, total guitar nerds as we were. I remember prefering the Bream concert. Not only because he also performed on the lute. But it was incredible to me, how those Segovia Frankfurter sausage fingers managed to caress such glorious music out of the tiny wooden box we spent so many hours daily trying to come to terms with. For anyone interested, I can recommend the Opus Arte / Allegro Films DVD containing 2 films by Christopher Nupen, about Segovia. The first called Segovia at los Olivos from 1967, when he was 75 years old, the other The song of the guitar filmed in beautiful Granada, in 1976, when he was 84, according to the liner notes. Of course you can hear that age had taken it's toll, but nevertheless I must say impressive. I only wish, that I could be able to play only half as well if ever reaching that ripe old age! G. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: lutelist Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Segovia whatever On Dec 15, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote: I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, I certainly agree about his rhythm (and unless you've heard his recordings from around 1930 you don't know the half of it), but he pulled a lot of sound out of the guitar. In 1977, I heard him in the 3,200-seat Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, a cavernous and not particularly resonant space where the LA Philharmonic played until 2003. He was 84, and obviously having memory or concentration problems, so what he played often bore only a passing resemblance to what the composer wrote. But he was quite audible, for better or worse. Mostly worse. I had never heard him live before -- though I was warned what to expect -- and as someone with pretensions, however small, of being a guitarist, I was embarrassed for my instrument. Apparently Segovia read my review of that concert in the Los Angeles Times a couple days later, and threatened (I don't know to whom) never to return to Los Angeles. You made a lot of people very happy, someone at the Times told me. He's a hateful old man. The Times music critic, Martin Bernheimer, was not among those I made happy. He'd reviewed Segovia's LA concert the previous year, and wrote what most critics were writing about Segovia: the guitar's a joke and there's no good music for it, but Segovia's definitely the greatest. Bernheimer was understandably miffed about being made to look foolish by his newest and youngest stringer (I was 20 at the time). That review eventually finished me as a Times stringer, a career in which I could have earned hundreds of dollars a year. The subject of how much Segovia helped create the classical guitar's popularity and how much he caught the wave at the right time can be discussed endlessly, but we should not forget 1) that the classical music establishment looked at Segovia, and the guitar, with much condescension, and 2) that he brought some disrepute on the instrument by atrocious performances in his later years, when someone less egotistical would have realized it was time to retire. Of course, his concerts in the 1930's or 1950's could have been embarrassments as well; I wouldn't know. But Segovia was helped a lot by talking dog effect: he was hailed as the greatest classical guitarist by lots of people who had no idea there were any others. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Segovia: the early years
On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:47 AM, William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Segovia's early years seem to be unclear. Does anybody know where he learned to play? Did he study with a master? I just happen to own a copy of Segovia: an Autobiography of the Years 1893-1920, translated by W.F. O'Brien (McMillan 1976). I may be the only living person who does. Odd little book, full of all sorts of descriptions of people's faces and clothes, and painfully obvious as an attempt to bolster the Segovia Legend, which often involves denigrating the contributions of other guitarists. But for what it's worth: He wrote that his aunt and uncle (he lived with them rather than his parents, for reasons he doesn't explain, although he was old enough when he was handed off to remember the event) had him take lessons from a nasty violinist he doesn't say how old he was, how long he had those lessons, or even whether it was violin or guitar that he was studying who pronounced him talentless, whereupon his uncle Eduardo stopped the lessons. At some unspecified later time, but apparently before he was ten, a strolling flamenco player stopped in their town, and gave him lessons. In a month and half I had learned everything the poor man knew that is to say, very little. That was apparently it. He describes himself as completely self-taught after that, except that his friends unearthed a guitar manual of sorts, thanks to which I was able to find the notes on the instrument. Why not find a teacher? My uncle could not have spared another penny, no matter how low the fees, to pay for a teacher. Moreover, my family wouldn't have allowed me to drop out of school in order to study an instrument outside those commonly heard in concert hallspiano, violin, cello. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
I hope Segovia saw that his work was good, and rested on the 6th day. RT On 12/15/2013 1:52 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
On 12/15/2013 10:52 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. I did admit at the outset, that I little knowledge of what influence he had on the direction of the music that he played. As for him resting peacefully, I seem to have pricked your previously expressed overwhelming admiration for the man, which was not my intention. It would be however in my estimation a pity, if the discussion of the efforts of musicians that have passed was limited only to praise. I wonder too about other recent comments that suggest that he may have played in public longer into his years than he had ought. My cursory perusal of the available YouTube videos show mostly an aging man. I'll make an effort to expose myself to more of his recordings. Toby Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Segovia whatever
On 12/15/2013 10:31 AM, howard posner wrote: On Dec 15, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote: I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, I certainly agree about his rhythm (and unless you've heard his recordings from around 1930 you don't know the half of it), but he pulled a lot of sound out of the guitar. As I have a volume control on my amplifier, I can speak little of the volume that he was able to coax from the otherwise often rather quiet instrument. It was of the consistency and sweetness of the tone and perhaps the ratio between resonance of the instrument and the sound that was produced through the mechanical means of disturbing the strings. Toby To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
My cursory perusal of the available YouTube videos show mostly an aging man. I'll make an effort to expose myself to more of his recordings. Toby Be careful: his recording may sue you for gross indecency. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Really? What about the others? What about Tarrega's disciples (specially Pujol), Barrios, and all the other latin american guitarists? They wouldn't exist without Segovia? I don't think so. There are so many forgotten names... 2013/12/15 Chris Barker [1]csbarker...@att.net Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:csbarker...@att.net 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Segovia whatever
I went to a concert by Segovia in Edinburgh many years ago when he was 90 something. My wife, who has two cloth ears, kept asking me if the music was supposed to be played that way. Why couldn't anyone stop him performing at that age? The audience were all delighted with the performance. I wanted to leave after the first few pieces but I was sitting in the middle of a row and thought it would be too dangerous. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Segovia: the early years
If anyone would like to know more about Segovia's early years, just contact Thomas Garcia (Miami University - OH). He has contributed to the Lute Society journal for many years. 2013/12/15 howard posner [1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:47 AM, William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Segovia's early years seem to be unclear. Does anybody know where he learned to play? Did he study with a master? I just happen to own a copy of Segovia: an Autobiography of the Years 1893-1920, translated by W.F. O'Brien (McMillan 1976). I may be the only living person who does. Odd little book, full of all sorts of descriptions of people's faces and clothes, and painfully obvious as an attempt to bolster the Segovia Legend, which often involves denigrating the contributions of other guitarists. -- References 1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Emilio Pujol was a fine teacher and performer. Francisco Tarrega was Pujol's teacher. Pujol, though a master, never received the exposure Segovia had. Tarrega taught Pujol to play with nailess right hand fingertips, and Pujol passed that technique on to others. I presume that Segovia's use of nails, and increased volume of his instrument because of that, might have gotten him bigger audiences. Interestingly I have one of Pujol's instruction books. It is an English translation. How accurate I don't know. One part that we don't think much of these days is a section on repairing broken strings. After reading that I certainly was glad I grew up in the era of nylon strings. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Correia Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:23 PM To: lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Really? What about the others? What about Tarrega's disciples (specially Pujol), Barrios, and all the other latin american guitarists? They wouldn't exist without Segovia? I don't think so. There are so many forgotten names... 2013/12/15 Chris Barker [1]csbarker...@att.net Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:csbarker...@att.net 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The introduction of nylon strings
HAHA Everybody at that time appreciated the blessings of nylon. Nowadays part of the lute fraternity seems hell bent on going back to gut. I'll stick with my nylon. Life's too short. Bill From: Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net To: 'Bruno Correia' bruno.l...@gmail.com; 'lutelist' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, 15 December 2013, 21:01 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Emilio Pujol was a fine teacher and performer. Francisco Tarrega was Pujol's teacher. Pujol, though a master, never received the exposure Segovia had. Tarrega taught Pujol to play with nailess right hand fingertips, and Pujol passed that technique on to others. I presume that Segovia's use of nails, and increased volume of his instrument because of that, might have gotten him bigger audiences. Interestingly I have one of Pujol's instruction books. It is an English translation. How accurate I don't know. One part that we don't think much of these days is a section on repairing broken strings. After reading that I certainly was glad I grew up in the era of nylon strings. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Correia Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:23 PM To: lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Really? What about the others? What about Tarrega's disciples (specially Pujol), Barrios, and all the other latin american guitarists? They wouldn't exist without Segovia? I don't think so. There are so many forgotten names... 2013/12/15 Chris Barker [1][3]csbarker...@att.net Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: [2][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3][5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [4][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:[7]csbarker...@att.net 2. mailto:[8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:csbarker...@att.net 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:csbarker...@att.net 8. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
That's interesting, Chris. What part of the string would get repaired? Would that be a gut string? If it's not too much trouble may I ask you to scan that page for me. I confess, it's pure curiosity. Sean On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Emilio Pujol was a fine teacher and performer. Francisco Tarrega was Pujol's teacher. Pujol, though a master, never received the exposure Segovia had. Tarrega taught Pujol to play with nailess right hand fingertips, and Pujol passed that technique on to others. I presume that Segovia's use of nails, and increased volume of his instrument because of that, might have gotten him bigger audiences. Interestingly I have one of Pujol's instruction books. It is an English translation. How accurate I don't know. One part that we don't think much of these days is a section on repairing broken strings. After reading that I certainly was glad I grew up in the era of nylon strings. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Correia Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:23 PM To: lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Really? What about the others? What about Tarrega's disciples (specially Pujol), Barrios, and all the other latin american guitarists? They wouldn't exist without Segovia? I don't think so. There are so many forgotten names... 2013/12/15 Chris Barker [1]csbarker...@att.net Sir, Respectfully I must remind you that Segovia's early 20th Century work made the classical guitar and related plucked instruments the popular things that they have become today. We all owe him reverence for that. Andres Segovia has been at rest for twenty six years. Please help to make that rest peaceful. Chris Barker -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tobiah Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:27 AM To: 'lutelist' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed On 12/14/2013 5:45 AM, Chris Barker wrote: Re: Gary's comments on Segovia... If it were not for Segovia's efforts, the guitar, lute, and kindred instruments would not occupy the places they have today. I was at a dinner put on by the old Dallas Classical Guitar society almost a decade ago when the young guitarist seated to my left referred to Andres Segovia as just an uninformed old man with poor performance practice who could be only be heard on a bunch of scratchy LPs. I took my first guitar lessons in 1958. We all considered Andres Segovia a saint. And now, much older and wiser, are still of the same opinion, and we hold his critics in great disdain. Are you referring to what his contributions to, and passion for the music did for its advancement? I know little of that - only what I see on YouTube of his performances. Allowing for possibly lesser recording engineering capability at the time, I find his tone anemic, his rhythm unmusically erratic, and his redeemable heart and passion as though it may be, fails to reach my heart through my admittedly unpolished ear. *Cringes and braces for the inevitable and surgically incisive dissection of his point of view* Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:csbarker...@att.net 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Segovia and Pujol (was Bream Collection…)
On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Chris Barker csbarker...@att.net wrote: Tarrega taught Pujol to play with nailess right hand fingertips, and Pujol passed that technique on to others. I presume that Segovia's use of nails, and increased volume of his instrument because of that, might have gotten him bigger audiences. Segovia's Autobiography of the Years 1893-1920 says Llobet and Tarrega never played concert halls because they were convinced that the guitar wouldn't be heard in one. In the next paragraph, he talks of playing at the Palau, a hall that seated over a thousand persons! He then says, Pujol not the musicologist, but the managing director of the Palau arranged to meet with me That offhand reference to the musicologist is the only mention of Emilio Pujol in the book. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Segovia and Pujol (was Bream Collection…)
They were right, the guitar is soft compared to the orchestral instruments. Segovia made fame because of the new technology of recording, something paralel to the exposure given by youtube nowadays. 2013/12/15 howard posner [1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com Segovia's Autobiography of the Years 1893-1920 says Llobet and Tarrega never played concert halls because they were convinced that the guitar wouldn't be heard in one. -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Nails addendum
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I have no need to express the hands must be kept white and clean. It is the mark of a gentleman and a lady,and it were better never to play of the lute than to play with nasty hands. For the nails, they must be short and smoothly cut (which some do with a little file). ...But take heed that you never lay the little finger upon the bridge or behind the bridge, neither strike the strings with the nails, nor so hard as if you would tear them in pieces. Mary Burwell tutor. -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Bream in Concert
I heard Julian Bream in concert a number of times. Once in a very large auditorium in Syracuse NY. I was way back in the Balcony, and I was truly astounded at the volume that came out his lute. He filled the hall. Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream in Concert
I had a similar experience seeing Bream in concert. His projection on both lute and guitar was nothing short of amazing. Rick -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Allan Alexander Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:46 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Bream in Concert I heard Julian Bream in concert a number of times. Once in a very large auditorium in Syracuse NY. I was way back in the Balcony, and I was truly astounded at the volume that came out his lute. He filled the hall. Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream in Concert
Hi Rick I had a similar experience seeing Bream in concert. His projection on both lute and guitar was nothing short of amazing. what also always amazed me about him is that he was not tied into only playing difficult pieces, he sometimes played the easiest of pieces and made them sound just wonderful. Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream in Concert
The sign of a true master! -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of guitarandl...@earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:14 PM To: Lindberg, Richard Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream in Concert Hi Rick I had a similar experience seeing Bream in concert. His projection on both lute and guitar was nothing short of amazing. what also always amazed me about him is that he was not tied into only playing difficult pieces, he sometimes played the easiest of pieces and made them sound just wonderful. Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Segovia and Pujol (was Bream Collection…)
In defense of Segovia, I played in Segovia masterclasses in 1982 at the Metropolitan Museum and in 1987 at the Manhattan School of Music and I found him to be a very fine coach. He knew the music I played backward and forward. Segovia was at his best when you were playing his editions. When I played Albeniz' Sevilla in a transcription by Barrueco and Segovia did not seem pleased. He learned this piece at the feet of Llobet in the 20s or before and I am sure the version he knew was hard wired into his brain and what I was playing simply sounded wrong. As far as his influence on the lute: I heard Paul O'dette say that it was the Six Lute Pieces from the Renaissance based on Chilesotti (and made famous by Segovia) that inspired O'dette to seek out a lute. He was studying them on the guitar and he took the title of the piece seriously enough to find a lute. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
