[LUTE] Re: Seven courses versus eight.
While it's true that most 8-course music is playable on a 7-course lute, by stopping the low F or retuning, and the choice between the two largely comes down to personal preference (some 7c pieces become harder on an 8c, but some become easier; often there's not much difference), it seems to me that the main advantage of an 8c in terms of repertoire is that you can play a lot more of the later (9c 10c) literature on it with no adaptation, because you can tune the 8th course down to C. If you count all those pieces, there are many you can't play on a 7c (at least not without taking the low Cs up an octave). Joshua On 21 Aug 2014, at 05:42, Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu wrote: What is the extent and nature of the historical liturature which is playable on an 8-course Renassiance lute, but not on a 7-course? In other words, is a 7-course instrument a workable subsitute for an 8-course? This assumes the 7-course lutenist is willing to retune his 7th course between pieces. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Seven courses vs eight
Not exactly that subject but related to : I was told by lutenist Hugh Sandilands to put the lowest string (D or C) as the 7th c., and the F in the 8th position as an option. It was easier to stop notes on the lowest when necessary, close to the 6th course. On the F you only have to place occasional F sharp... Any comment ? Georges -- Georges de Lucenay 11, rue du Prieure 71120 Charolles (France) [1]luce...@gmail.com Tel. 33 + (0)3 85 88 37 18 Port.33 + (0)6 77 77 12 33 -- References 1. mailto:luce...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses versus eight.
TREE EDITIONNEW September 2014 __ Johann Anton Losy: Music for Baroque Guitar Manuscript CZ-NLobkowitz Kk77, edited by Michael Treder Possibly not all of these charming guitar pieces are composed by Losy. Nontheless this is the most recognised source of Losy Guitar pieces (available on the market mainly in transcription to staff notation for Classical Guitar) and is published here in a newly typeset French tablature version for Baroque Guitar, together with a detailed introduction (in German) Frecht tablature/Baroque Guitar tuning Euro 25.- Vincentio Galilei: Fronimo Facsimile of the Second Edition, 1584 Vincentio (father of astronomer Galileo and lutenist Michelangelo) wrote this groundbreaking book on how to intabulate vocal music. It contains numerous madrigals set on the lute. 192 pages/Italian Tablature/Renaissance Tuning/hard bound Euro 80.- Find a sample from the Losy Kk77 on our website www.tree-edition.com TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany albertreyer...@kabelmail.de http://www.tree-edition.com ++49(0)451 899 78 48 Find even more music books at http://tree-edition.magix.net/public/ Besuchen Sie auch die Seite http://laute-und-Musik.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
Hi All, As Georges says, having the D on the 7th course gives you a 7c lute with an optional F on the 8th, which is handy for playing those pieces where the 7th course is fingered (some of Dowland's difficult solos, and Danyel's lute songs come to mind). No use for Molinaro, of course. Many people (myself included) feel that there is a difference in sound and feel between 7c and 8c lutes, which is perhaps more noticeable with small instruments than big ones. On an 8c lute, the bridge is longer, and there is more total string tension. From the playing point of view I always feel I want either one or two less, or one or two more, courses. A 7c lute seems much more at home with 6c music than an 8c, so in a way it covers more music. 9c lutes are not popular these days but seem to have been common around 1600-1610. One nice tuning is with the 9th at Bb and the 8th at Eb, so you get a lovely tuning/stringing arrangement for playing in Eb or Bb. It's surprising how many pieces in 10c sources (like Ballard) are playable without modification on 9 courses. 10c lutes cover more music, of course, but you still have the E/Eb tuning dilemma and it's really a baroque lute, a long way away from 6c music. The great thing about it is the large repertoire for transitional tunings. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
For what it's worth, I much prefer the 7 course, I never have the urge for more. Allan http://www.guitarandlute.com Hi All, As Georges says, having the D on the 7th course gives you a 7c lute with an optional F on the 8th, which is handy for playing those pieces where the 7th course is fingered (some of Dowland's difficult solos, and Danyel's lute songs come to mind). No use for Molinaro, of course. Many people (myself included) feel that there is a difference in sound and feel between 7c and 8c lutes, which is perhaps more noticeable with small instruments than big ones. On an 8c lute, the bridge is longer, and there is more total string tension. From the playing point of view I always feel I want either one or two less, or one or two more, courses. A 7c lute seems much more at home with 6c music than an 8c, so in a way it covers more music. 9c lutes are not popular these days but seem to have been common around 1600-1610. One nice tuning is with the 9th at Bb and the 8th at Eb, so you get a lovely tuning/stringing arrangement for playing in Eb or Bb. It's surprising how many pieces in 10c sources (like Ballard) are playable without modification on 9 courses. 10c lutes cover more music, of course, but you still have the E/Eb tuning dilemma and it's really a baroque lute, a long way away from 6c music. The great thing about it is the large repertoire for transitional tunings. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
I also prefer the 7c; and only being able to have one lute (for now), I wouldn't trade it for anything else. But it's a tough question for the beginner, as I suspect this is sort of preference is something you can develop only after you've played the lute for a little while, and gotten to know the repertoire a bit. Some people feel that playing 6c course music on 8c lute is highly unsatisfactory, others can't understand why anyone would spend so much money on 6c 7c and 10c lutes when they can just play everything on an 8c, others still feel that if you're going to add any courses after 6 you should just go straight to 10, and so on. You can only really know what compromises are acceptable to you (and, indeed, what you consider a compromise) after you've had a little experience with lute playing. I suppose people like Martin, who has a lot of experience not only as a player but also as a maker, will have a more refined sensibility to the differences than, say, me, who has onl! y played couple of lutes for enough time to really get to know them, and has just 'tasted' others at lute get-togethers and classes. But I feel that lutenists are a bit to obsessed with counting courses, perhaps because the music is in tablature which enhances the perception of these sorts of distinctions, otherwise we would would just see the notes and perhaps be a bit less occupied with which course we played them on. Joshua On 21 Aug 2014, at 14:10, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Hi All, As Georges says, having the D on the 7th course gives you a 7c lute with an optional F on the 8th, which is handy for playing those pieces where the 7th course is fingered (some of Dowland's difficult solos, and Danyel's lute songs come to mind). No use for Molinaro, of course. Many people (myself included) feel that there is a difference in sound and feel between 7c and 8c lutes, which is perhaps more noticeable with small instruments than big ones. On an 8c lute, the bridge is longer, and there is more total string tension. From the playing point of view I always feel I want either one or two less, or one or two more, courses. A 7c lute seems much more at home with 6c music than an 8c, so in a way it covers more music. 9c lutes are not popular these days but seem to have been common around 1600-1610. One nice tuning is with the 9th at Bb and the 8th at Eb, so you get a lovely tuning/stringing arrangement for playing in Eb or Bb. It's surprising how many pieces in 10c sources (like Ballard) are playable without modification on 9 courses. 10c lutes cover more music, of course, but you still have the E/Eb tuning dilemma and it's really a baroque lute, a long way away from 6c music. The great thing about it is the large repertoire for transitional tunings. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
others can't understand why anyone would spend so much money on 6c 7c and 10c lutes when they can just play everything on an 8c, This pretty much sums up how I feel, if you can only own one lute, an 8c makes sense to me. I do miss the low C from when I used to own a 10c, only because lately I have been playing some French lute songs with a soprano and see that low note which I just play up an 8ve. But it isn't worth the hassle/expense of either buying a 10c or re-tuning the 8th on stage. Maybe if I splurge and get those geared pegs I might consider re-tuning on stage, but not before then! On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Joshua Burkholder [1]burkholder.jos...@gmail.com wrote: I also prefer the 7c; and only being able to have one lute (for now), I wouldn't trade it for anything else. But it's a tough question for the beginner, as I suspect this is sort of preference is something you can develop only after you've played the lute for a little while, and gotten to know the repertoire a bit. Some people feel that playing 6c course music on 8c lute is highly unsatisfactory, others can't understand why anyone would spend so much money on 6c 7c and 10c lutes when they can just play everything on an 8c, others still feel that if you're going to add any courses after 6 you should just go straight to 10, and so on. You can only really know what compromises are acceptable to you (and, indeed, what you consider a compromise) after you've had a little experience with lute playing. I suppose people like Martin, who has a lot of experience not only as a player but also as a maker, will have a more refined sensibility to the differences than, say, me, who has onl! A y played couple of lutes for enough time to really get to know them, and has just 'tasted' others at lute get-togethers and classes. But I feel that lutenists are a bit to obsessed with counting courses, perhaps because the music is in tablature which enhances the perception of these sorts of distinctions, otherwise we would would just see the notes and perhaps be a bit less occupied with which course we played them on. Joshua On 21 Aug 2014, at 14:10, Martin Shepherd [2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Hi All, As Georges says, having the D on the 7th course gives you a 7c lute with an optional F on the 8th, which is handy for playing those pieces where the 7th course is fingered (some of Dowland's difficult solos, and Danyel's lute songs come to mind).A No use for Molinaro, of course. Many people (myself included) feel that there is a difference in sound and feel between 7c and 8c lutes, which is perhaps more noticeable with small instruments than big ones.A On an 8c lute, the bridge is longer, and there is more total string tension.A From the playing point of view I always feel I want either one or two less, or one or two more, courses.A A 7c lute seems much more at home with 6c music than an 8c, so in a way it covers more music. 9c lutes are not popular these days but seem to have been common around 1600-1610.A One nice tuning is with the 9th at Bb and the 8th at Eb, so you get a lovely tuning/stringing arrangement for playing in Eb or Bb.A It's surprising how many pieces in 10c sources (like Ballard) are playable without modification on 9 courses. 10c lutes cover more music, of course, but you still have the E/Eb tuning dilemma and it's really a baroque lute, a long way away from 6c music.A The great thing about it is the large repertoire for transitional tunings. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:burkholder.jos...@gmail.com 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
I have a strong preference for 7 courses, but always keep the seventh course turned to F. I tried it for a while tuned to D, but found it difficult to be always fretting the Fs, which seemed to be by far the most common basses in the music I play. Any other bass notes I play up the octave. Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada http://www.gaherty.ca http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Newsletter from TREE EDITION
TREE EDITIONNEW September 2014 __ Johann Anton Losy: Music for Baroque Guitar Manuscript CZ-NLobkowitz Kk77, edited by Michael Treder Possibly not all of these charming guitar pieces are composed by Losy. Nontheless this is the most recognised source of Losy Guitar pieces (available on the market mainly in transcription to staff notation for Classical Guitar) and is published here in a newly typeset French tablature version for Baroque Guitar, together with a detailed introduction (in German) Frecht tablature/Baroque Guitar tuning Euro 25.- Vincentio Galilei: Fronimo Facsimile of the Second Edition, 1584 Vincentio (father of astronomer Galileo and lutenist Michelangelo) wrote this groundbreaking book on how to intabulate vocal music. It contains numerous madrigals set on the lute. 192 pages/Italian Tablature/Renaissance Tuning/hard bound Euro 80.- Find a sample from the Losy Kk77 attached Send your orders to albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Please find our complete catalogue of lute music at www.tree-edition.com TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany If you do not want to be on our mailing list, just let us know. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Seven courses vs eight
VERY astute observation! 'On 8/21/2014 6:47 AM, Joshua Burkholder wrote: But I feel that lutenists are a bit to obsessed with counting courses, perhaps because the music is in tablature which enhances the perception of these sorts of distinctions, otherwise we would would just see the notes and perhaps be a bit less occupied with which course we played them on.' -Otherwise, Martin Shepherd sums it up all perfectly to my satisfaction. As to reversing 7 8 to finger low D, I never could stick with it on an 8 course lute, but strangely enough found it to be a very satisfactory compromise on a 9 course lute; seems the low 9-C gave the whole lute stringing a proper foundation. That was my first lute, long gone; and as I don't much play the dedicated 10 course repertoire but do miss the occasional but important low C that occurs in Holborne, Daniel, R. Johnson, I would love to have a real, 9-course lute again (Martin makes a beautiful one!)- the exact lute that Dowland preferred at the end of his career (1610, Varietie...). For what it's worth- and in line with what most are posting here, not one of my Renaissance lute students has settled on an 8 course. 7 courses or 6, even though they appreciate the quality of my 8 course. One last interesting bit, uncommented on so far: just for myself, when i'm playing my 7-course at home for no audience, i've been known to tune the two strings of the 7th course to F and D. yes, that's not a u nison, i know, and then i'm careful to hit only one string of the course when i need to, making for a sort of cheat 8-course... i wonder if anyone else has done this. cheeky, i know, but i can't imagine i'm t he only player in history to have tried this on the sly. Of course this option is out for those of us using 8ves on our bass courses, but I remember- but not the source- that the first experimental use of a 6th course was done this way in the mid/late 15th century. If anyone can confirm expound on this, (or tell me I'm imagining things) I'd like to know! Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Unexpected symbol in tablature
Dear Collective Wisdom I wonder if those of you who have a copy of John Ward's Sprightly cheerful musick (Lute Society Journal XXI, 1979-80) and have time on your hands could look at p. 203 where you will see an example in French tablature - presumably as Ward says - for 5-course guitar. The question is what are the zeros - o supposed to represent? Perhaps someone has a copy of the original? The symbol which Ward has reproduced as o might actually look different. Any ideas woud be welcome. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
