[LUTE] Re: Belle, qui tiens ma vie
The Hirsch lute book has a [1]coranto version of the piece. --Sarge On 8/10/2019 03:21, Jörg Hilbert wrote: Dear all, does anybody know any lute version of ûBelle qui tiens ma vie ë (Thinot Arbeau)? Thanks JÃÆörg To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://gerbode.net/sources/GB-Bl_british_library/ms_M1353_hirsch_lute_book_1595/pdf/22_coranto_on_belle_qui_tiens_ma_vie_anon_ed.pdf 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Belle, qui tiens ma vie
That's indeed interesting. I just checked the Hirsch version which leaves some room for interpretation it seems (no bar lines). But now I realize that Hassler's "Jungfrau Dein schöne Gstalt" is based on the same model. This could even lead to some confusion when the songs are modified to become a dance. On 10.08.19 18:32, Rainer wrote: This doesn't help you but may be intersting: The piece already appears (decades before Arbeau) in the organ tablature book of Jan von Lublin under the title "Zaklolam szÿa tharnem" (??). It also appears in the so-called "Fitzwilliam Virginal Book" as "Corranto." on page 327 set by Byrd. This version also appears in the Hirsch Lute Book f. 10v and in the Kassel lute book (discussed a few day ago) f. 4r "Courante" Rainer On 10.08.2019 12:21, Jörg Hilbert wrote: Dear all, does anybody know any lute version of »Belle qui tiens ma vie « (Thinot Arbeau)? Thanks Jörg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Belle, qui tiens ma vie
This doesn't help you but may be intersting: The piece already appears (decades before Arbeau) in the organ tablature book of Jan von Lublin under the title "Zaklolam szÿa tharnem" (??). It also appears in the so-called "Fitzwilliam Virginal Book" as "Corranto." on page 327 set by Byrd. This version also appears in the Hirsch Lute Book f. 10v and in the Kassel lute book (discussed a few day ago) f. 4r "Courante" Rainer On 10.08.2019 12:21, Jörg Hilbert wrote: Dear all, does anybody know any lute version of »Belle qui tiens ma vie « (Thinot Arbeau)? Thanks Jörg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation
Hello Tristan, I have made a collection of lute scores and put all of them in books by instrument (number of lute courses). I select those I play well enough to perform and put them into a "performance" book for each instrument. In that book the songs are in order of keys starting with the most flats and progressing to the most sharps. This minimizes the effort to re-tune when moving on to the next piece. I have found strings hold their new pitch better when tuned-up to a sharp. Thanks, George __ From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Ed Durbrow Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2019 7:47 AM To: Tristan von Neumann ; LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation I would add number of courses and tuning. On Aug 10, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: > Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome: > > > I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite > pieces, about 500 pages. > > I am still struggling with the order the pieces. > > Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2 > pages, I am not sure what concept is the best. > > There's plenty of possibilities: > > * by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice > mixture of genres within > > * in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in > anonymous the biggest part...) > > * by country of origin > > * by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals, > Motets, Dances) > > * a mixture of those above > > > Any experiences/suggestions are welcome. > > > :) > T* > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation
As I said - I only have 7 courses. So things like accord nouveau or 10 course pieces will not be in it. On 10.08.19 14:47, Ed Durbrow wrote: I would add number of courses and tuning. On Aug 10, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome: I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite pieces, about 500 pages. I am still struggling with the order the pieces. Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2 pages, I am not sure what concept is the best. There's plenty of possibilities: * by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice mixture of genres within * in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in anonymous the biggest part...) * by country of origin * by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals, Motets, Dances) * a mixture of those above Any experiences/suggestions are welcome. :) T* To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [3]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [4]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow [5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 4. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation
I would add number of courses and tuning. On Aug 10, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: > Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome: > > > I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite > pieces, about 500 pages. > > I am still struggling with the order the pieces. > > Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2 > pages, I am not sure what concept is the best. > > There's plenty of possibilities: > > * by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice > mixture of genres within > > * in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in > anonymous the biggest part...) > > * by country of origin > > * by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals, > Motets, Dances) > > * a mixture of those above > > > Any experiences/suggestions are welcome. > > > :) > T* > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ --
[LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen
I guess you are right about the character of this music as show-off. It's just fun to listen to someone developing variations. If you don't listen, the mood is constant and doesn't distract. It's basically Jazz or Blues, as Victor Coelho put it. Definitely the fanciest ideas I found in the Wurstisen Lute Book Vol. 6. On 10.08.19 10:26, Sean Smith wrote: As far back (at least) as Paladin's 2nd Libro Primo there seems to be a tradition(?) of the Galliard Antico switching to a major key for the Represse. section. In the Adrianssen it not only switches to major but alternates between the I and the V. This interestingly echos the Traditorella (see the Munich 266 ms) where the represse alternates between I and V. Getting back to Adr. there are dozens of variations on the Antico (per book!) and I get the idea that if it wasn't to be danced to then it was wallpaper music. (V. Gallilei boasts of hundreds in his Intavolatura) Rather fancy sometimes but background music in that I can't imagine anyone paying attention to all those variations beside the players themselves. And unless you can rattle through those passaggi like, say, Alan Holdsworth or John McLaughlin, it'll be hard to keep up with a spirited galliard dancer. So maybe it was player "fun" or even excercises; hard to say. They may even fit together as duets, trios or beyond. Once you had the progression memorized and a few tricks up your sleeve there's nothing stopping you from playing all night, solo or otherwise. So maybe it was "show off" music, too. The dances in 266 are a bit easier and I'm sure a good player like P.P. Borono or Marco would be able to keep up with even the rowdiest of dancers. Add a cittern or two, another lute or three and a gamba and you might even make enough noise to compete with the boots, babble and brandy. At this point the meantone argument becomes moot. And seeing your current note, you're right. I must have been thinking of the '92 Adr. The collections of Anticos in Phalese make an interesting progression from '63 through the Adriaenssens. You'll find yet more overlap between the '71 and the Adr '84. And how about that Passemezzo ficta? Is he just messing with us now? my slack 2 cents, Sean ps And those variations you first mentioned would be a nice texture under a gamba or fiddle solo. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Belle, qui tiens ma vie
Don't know whether this helps but there is a short coranta for Pandora based on 'Belle qui tiens ma vie ' in Thomas Morley's First book of consort lessons published in 1599. You would need to adapt to the tuning of the lute or adopt scordatura. Best, Matthew Le 10 août 2019 à 12:21, Jörg Hilbert a écrit : > Dear all, > does anybody know any lute version of »Belle qui tiens ma vie « (Thinot > Arbeau)? > Thanks > Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen
Dear Joachim, I used this term to give the idea for someone who can't just look at it, you know this is erbsenzahlery :) And where is the same accuracy when trying to show me an example? ;-))) By Condes Claros you mean those of Valderrabano I guess? They are fancy, but not that fancy. I was looking for the exact figuration. Trying to explain the figuration by saying that variations need variation (...duh!) doesn't really tell me anything. ;-) On 10.08.19 11:23, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: Dear Tristan, to be truely Alberti one would have to be a bass, ;), and it's anachronistic to connect such figurations to Alberti because the source precedes the time of Alberti (at least a bit). You will find similar things in Spanish variations of e.g. Conde claros. I think one could describe what we find there as a possible solution to the question how to write (or play or improvise) variations on a rather slow moving progression, if you have the scale runs already through. Best Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen Datum: 2019-08-09T02:38:53+0200 Von: "Tristan von Neumann" An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" The "Passomeso in Basso" from Adriaenssen's Pratum Musicum 1584 features two variations in a very odd anachronistic/visionary style: It's basically the idea of "Alberti bass". (m. 114 - 119 and 225 - 238) http://gerbode.net/sources/Adriaenssen/pratum_musicum_1584/pdf/61_passomeso_in_basso.pdf This style seems to come from nowhere, and it has to my knowledge never been used afterwards. But I haven't looked at everything. Does anyone know any similar passage in that era? And: is there a recording of the piece? It is probably the most elaborate and creative Passamezzo ever. I use it as exercise - feels like training for a marathon. :) T* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Belle, qui tiens ma vie
Dear all, does anybody know any lute version of »Belle qui tiens ma vie « (Thinot Arbeau)? Thanks Jörg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen
As far back (at least) as Paladin's 2nd Libro Primo there seems to be a tradition(?) of the Galliard Antico switching to a major key for the Represse. section. In the Adrianssen it not only switches to major but alternates between the I and the V. This interestingly echos the Traditorella (see the Munich 266 ms) where the represse alternates between I and V. Getting back to Adr. there are dozens of variations on the Antico (per book!) and I get the idea that if it wasn't to be danced to then it was wallpaper music. (V. Gallilei boasts of hundreds in his Intavolatura) Rather fancy sometimes but background music in that I can't imagine anyone paying attention to all those variations beside the players themselves. And unless you can rattle through those passaggi like, say, Alan Holdsworth or John McLaughlin, it'll be hard to keep up with a spirited galliard dancer. So maybe it was player "fun" or even excercises; hard to say. They may even fit together as duets, trios or beyond. Once you had the progression memorized and a few tricks up your sleeve there's nothing stopping you from playing all night, solo or otherwise. So maybe it was "show off" music, too. The dances in 266 are a bit easier and I'm sure a good player like P.P. Borono or Marco would be able to keep up with even the rowdiest of dancers. Add a cittern or two, another lute or three and a gamba and you might even make enough noise to compete with the boots, babble and brandy. At this point the meantone argument becomes moot. And seeing your current note, you're right. I must have been thinking of the '92 Adr. The collections of Anticos in Phalese make an interesting progression from '63 through the Adriaenssens. You'll find yet more overlap between the '71 and the Adr '84. And how about that Passemezzo ficta? Is he just messing with us now? my slack 2 cents, Sean ps And those variations you first mentioned would be a nice texture under a gamba or fiddle solo. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
