[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Cassein glue
Artists use(d) casein glue to glue up panels for painting. The advantage is that it is waterproof so isn't softened by the gessoing process. Casein Glue for Joining If it is necessary to glue up a panel, the best thing to use is the cheese and lime glue which Cennino describes in Chapter CXII. [The Craftsman's Handbook, p. 68.] I have seen a medieval panel, made up with this cement, which was [11] so completely eaten away by worms that the cement which originally joined two parts together stood out in a thin ridge half an inch high, with the marks of the grain of the wood visible on both sides of it. It is durable, adhesive, and, once dry, insoluble in water. This insolubility is a great advantage; for the surface of a panel is kept moist for a long time in the process of gessoing, and ordinary glues tend to soften dangerously if they are kept damp. If the panel is so wide that it cannot be cut from a single plank, two or more planks may be put together with this glue, with broad clamps to hold them while it dries, of course. Moldings may be glued to the panel with it, and nailed through in addition with copper nails, or brads. There are several proprietary casein glues on the market now which are good and useful, but for gluing wooden panels Cennino's lime-casein recipe is better. The alkaline principles of the trade casein glues are more soluble than lime, and may do damage; and the dried film which these products leave behind resembles a glue, while the lime mixture resembles a cement, and is better suited to use in a joint between two pieces of wood. Cennino's recipe is easily followed, using any lean cheese, mouse cheese, or even cottage cheese, consisting of fresh curds strained from the whey. Be sure to get pure lime, and not the compound material called Hydraulic lime which many builders use instead. (D Thompson, The Practice of Tempera Painting, 1936, pp10-11) Cennino's recipe is found in his book, Il Libro dell'Arte from about 1390.: To Make a Glue out of Lime and Cheese. Chapter C XII There is a glue used by workers in wood; this is made of cheese. After putting it to soak in water, work it over with a little quicklime, using a little board with both hands. Put it between the boards; it joins them and fastens them together well. A translation of the full text of Cennino's fascinating book is [1]here. I suppose it might have been used for gluing up the panels of a harpsichord lid prior to painting, but generally it is too hard and permanent for instrument making. I once found and used an old tin of Casco, which was the predecessor of Cascamite. It worked fine but smelt distinctly cheesy, and left a brownish stain on the wood even though it was very pale itself. Regards M On 15 March 2013 10:15, Martyn Hodgson [2]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Dear Bill, Many years ago, before I knew better, I made my first instrument with a propriety wood glue 'Cascamite' which I thought at the time was a cassein type adhesive (the similarity in the name). And it was certainly strong, gap filling (benefit for a novice!) and took plenty of time to go off (a mixed blessing). But on reading the label shortly after I saw it was made using a urea based compound - which I took to mean piss rather than diary products I seem to recall some make use of it for gluing parchment for roses etc. I think FoMRHI archives might have something. regards Martyn --- On Fri, 15/3/13, William Samson [3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: William Samson [4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Cassein glue To: [5]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu [6]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 15 March, 2013, 9:33 Hi, An idle question here - I saw on TV how to make casein glue - using skimmed milk, bicarb and vinegar. Apparently it's been around since ancient Egyptian times. [1][7]http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_8474158_make-casein-glue.html Do you know of any uses it might have had in instrument making, or any evidence that it was used at all? Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9]http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_8474158_make-casein-glue.html 2. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.noteaccess.com/Texts/Cennini/ 2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 3. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 4. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests
I don't think you will be able to pin down a very precise date, and it probably varied from country to country and publisher to publisher. I have some late 19thC editions of piano music with the modern crotchet rest and others from the same period with the old style. On my shelves I find The Revised Church Hymnary (OUP 1929) is still using the old style, but The Church Anthem Book (OUP 1933) uses new style. Both of these are properly engraved, i.e. not movable type. FWIW, I still use a version of the old style when copying by hand - it is much quicker. The stroke goes down-up-right, and looks a bit like a letter r. Some hire orchestral parts are reproductions of hand copied originals, and some of these, e.g. Malcolm Arnold, also use old style, no doubt for the same reason. Arnold's copyist's version looks similar a handwritten square root sign, with a curl at the bottom left rather than an acute angle. I don't thinks this helps you very much! regards Meg On 13 March 2011 13:15, Stewart McCoy [1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Dear All, Not specifically about lutes, I'm afraid, but I thought maybe someone might be able to help with a query which was passed on to me this morning. In the 18^th century a crotchet rest looked like a mirror image of a quaver rest. We don't write them like that any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New to the list
Stephen Gottlieb offers a peg turner here: [1]http://www.editor.net/lutemaker/accessories.html $ Occasionally pegs are very stiff, or simply a little small, and a peg turner is a useful accessory. This is a very simple tool, a turned wooden handle with a leather padded slot for the peg, and flat sides to prevent it rolling about. -L-20 $ I made my own out of a piece of scrap wood - not very difficult with basic tools. It may not look very beautiful but it does the job. On 14 January 2011 05:08, Claudia Funder [2]claudia.fun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, I've just joined the Lute List and am a new player having taken up Lute in 2010. I have a beautiful instrument made for me last year by Stephen and Sandi in London which I picked up in May. Now that it's summer I am also experiencing huge peg turning issues (as per Anthony Hind's note of last year). It's very wet and humid this year with all the La Nina rain. (which is all through Aus not just in Queensland etc). For last few days I haven't been able to turn the pegs at all. I've tried the heat/drying technique suggested but given it hasn't really helped. (Actually, I might try a hair dryerHmm) Today I've managed to move the pegs a bit and have almost re-tuned the whole instrument. Now I have numb fingers and thumbs and practice will have to wait! If anyone can let me know where I can get a peg turner from to help that would be just grand. I can't find anything on the interweb... Regards to all. Claudia Funder Melbourne Australia. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.editor.net/lutemaker/accessories.html 2. mailto:claudia.fun...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret tying help
I replaced some of mine for the first time a couple of months ago without any problem :) , using the instructions including photos here: [1]http://www.wadsworth-lutes.co.uk/frets.htm. The soldering iron worked well for me - I don't have a lighter and matches seemed a bit scary Meg On 25 November 2010 03:39, Suzanne Angevine [2]suzanne.angev...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. In quite a few places I encountered descriptions of this simple knot, and it was what I was attempting to use. My first observation is that all you who have done this a bunch don't remember how hard it was at first to get it. And my second observation is this. while none of you admitted to working the end of the gut a little to make it possible to tighten the knot well, I bet you all do it, if unconsciously while getting that first loop in there and the end burned. Our experience with burning the end of the gut into a lump was varied. We only replaced the biggest 3 frets, but those 3 pieces of gut varied in their response to the flame. Also, a soldering iron actually didn't work all that well for us. A lighter set on low, and then using mostly the (cooler?) tip of the flame seemed to work best. So now I think I have 3 new usable frets replacing the badly worn ones. That is, as long as the next time I open the case they're still attached. :-) Suzanne -- References 1. http://www.wadsworth-lutes.co.uk/frets.htm 2. mailto:suzanne.angev...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: EMS Lutes
Hi My first post, though I have been lurking for a while A year or so ago I bought the [1]EMS 7-course special . Although I knew it would be better to pay a lot more for a better one I had no idea whether I would get on with it at all, and there were none available for hire at the time. It was playable out of the box but tuning was a pain as the nut was awful and the pegs not great either. I have done a bit of violin making, so I was confident enough to make the following modifications: replaced the nut and lowered the action slightly, refitted the pegs, flattened the fingerboard which was slightly concave so that the frets were a little loose in the middle, replaced the nylon frets with gut and tidied up the carving of the rose. I also replaced the strings with Nylgut (apart from a Pyramid rectified nylon top), following advice from Jacob Heringman. The new nut is ebony and a big improvement but I think bone would have been better. The pegs are as good as I can get them but because of the small heads I find it easier to use a simple home-made peg turner for tuning. These modifications greatly improved the sound and the playability. The string spacing at the bridge is a bit close, though, and there is nothing I can reasonably do about that. Nevertheless it gave me a great deal of pleasure and I have no regrets about buying it. The case is servicable, providing adequate protection, but the surface is easily scuffed. Recently I had the opportunity to buy a second-hand 6-course lute by a 'proper' maker. This has a better sound and string spacing but still doesn't match up to the work of the best makers, either in sound or in price! (I paid -L-1300 including a Kingham case.) The EMS lutes are made in Pakistan but the shop does exercise some quality control and rejects the duds. For someone who is really strapped for cash, can't find a good second-hand deal or one to hire or borrow, I think one of these lutes is not a bad option at all and a lot better than none. If she could find one second-hand she would get better value for money. The Lute Society (uk) has an 8-course in the small ads just now, and I would consider selling my 7-course if she is interested - it is in Glasgow. HTH Meg On 22 November 2010 13:48, Christopher Wilke [2]chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a student who came to me with one of those Pakistani lutes that he bought on eBay. I'd heard many horrible stories about these instruments, but I have to say that for him it is not a bad instrument. It is certainly not the most resonant lute, but neither is it overly heavy or guitar-like. The neck is quite straight and the string spacing is fine. The action right now is slightly higher than I like, but its within a range that could be fixed with larger frets. (It's too high for him as a beginning student, but advanced players might actually like the action where it is.) All told, I've played low-end lutes by name makers that are only marginally better, but at much higher cost. I asked him if he did any modification and he said that he didn't know the first thing about lutes (his main instrument is bassoon) and that it came as-is right out of the box. If - and that's a big IF - I knew that all of these lutes are like this, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to someone wanting an inexpensive entry level instrument. I've heard others say that the quality control is low on these lutes, however, so maybe my student just lucky. Chris Hi all, I have a student interested in taking up the lute, but she doesn't want to spent too much money initially. She asked about the EMS lutes, unfortunately I have never seen or heard one before so I can't really offer she any advise. I was hoping anyone familiar with these lutes could comment on their quality / value for money, and whether these lutes are a good option for a beginner with a small budget. Cheers, Andrew To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.earlymusicshop.com/product.aspx/en-GB/1000586-ems-7-course-renaissance-lute-special 2. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
