[LUTE] Treble rider
I wonder whether someone would be so kind as to send me a drawing/template of a treble rider for a 13-course lute, I am in the process of building the pegbox. Many thanks Nigel --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] treble and ground
I remember recently a kind lute player had put a selection of treble and ground lute duets on his or her site, could someone please point me in the right direction? Many thanks Nigel --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: First lute advice
Rob MacKillop wrote: Regarding the 8c/7c question, there are many players who switch the lower two courses around, so you have a 'normal' 7c with the 7th course at D, plus an extra F on the 8th course. I haven't done this myself, but wonder if it is a good idea? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Yes, I spoke to Hopkinson Smith after a concert he gave recently and he does exactly that (can't be such a crummy idea then!) Nigel
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Is peg-box decoration safe?
Nicolás Valencia wrote: Dear All, I've recently ordered a 13-course baroque lute beautifully decorated with a fretwork at the back of the peg-box. However, I'm still hesitating if this is the right choice. My question is: does it affect the peg-box strength and therefore could it be risky because of the string tension? I've read a thread about somebody who had his decoration unglued when trying to tune his instrument... Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. I think a player on this list had a problem recently with the fretwork coming loose. I imagine you have to be careful when the wood is so thin next to parts (i.e.pegs) that move. On the other hand, it does look nice! Nigel
[LUTE] Re: breaking-in a lute, not linear
Rob MacKillop wrote: Other break-in methods include buying it a present on its birthday, setting a place for it at the dinner table, tying tinsel on it at Christmas, and, yes, allowing it to sleep with you when it is feeling low. Follow this, and your lute will love you forever. Rob MacKillop PS And keep it away from sheep dogs! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Talking of which I heard that Garbiel Garrido (south american recorder and former lute player) was playing his lute sitting up in bed, suddenly felt tired, lay the lute beside the bed, forgot it and put his foot through it when he got up next morning. Moral: lutes and beds are a bad combination Nigel
[LUTE] Re: breaking-in a lute, advice
Anthony Hind wrote: Dear Lutists (or should I say lutenists?° I apologize for replying to my own message, but early this morning, I realized that a recipe from Benjamin Narvey for speeding up and improving the breaking-in of a lute, does imply that this process is, in some way, frequency dependent. I don't know whether this recipe came from Benjamin's own experimentation, or whether it has been handed down to him by his teachers. In any case, this advice could, perhaps, be of use to anyone who has a fairly new lute. B. told me that he takes time, at each session, to strum hard and repeatedly across the open strings of a new lute, but that he also pays particular attention to playing the top string in this same repeated manner, while stopping it down at the highest fret. This he explained was because the tone in this top position was very important for playing music, but that these top notes did not appear often enough in the music during regular performance, for the lute to improve at that frequency. In other words, just playing the lower notes of the open strings would not result in the sound opening-up and becoming sweeter at all frequencies. Of course, this is a recipe and not a scientific explanation of the phenomenon of breaking-in (and given to me non-formally as a set of passing remarks by B. that we could call a set of intuitions), but I suddenly realized that this was not unlike the principle behind a recipe for speeding up, what is often called burn-in of hifi components. I don't think this question is better understood than the break-in phenomenon for musical instruments, so we are again talking about recipes, and not explanations. However, a number of companies sell CDs just for the purpose of burning-in components. These CDs contain systematically varying sound patterns that sweep through the frequencies normally present in music (and perhaps some that aren't), but it is argued that this speeds up the burn-in process, as some of these frequencies appear only occasionally in the music. Thus burn-in would be frequency dependent. This seems to be analogous to what B. was saying about paying particular attention to playing the top string at its top fret. Furthermore, I seem to remember that B. also said he uses this open- string-strumming, whenever he begins to play, just to open up the sound of the lute. This implies he has the intuition that the breaking-in is an ongoing process, never quite over. I believe that to be the case also for the burn-in of electronic components. The similarity between these two recipes for breaking-in and burn-in is such that I feel there could be a common explanation to both processes, but as there is no scientific explanation to either (as far as I know) and these recipes are only based on intuition, this can only be wild speculation on my part. Benjamin, of course, is in no way responsible for the use I have just made here, of his non formal recipe. Nevertheless, do any of you have similar recipes or thoughts on how to speed up the break-in process? Anthony Le 26 oct. 08 à 15:56, Anthony Hind a écrit : Dear Lutists I have been using my Baroque lute strung for 415 for the last couple of months or so tuned down to 407. The sound over this time had seemed to have mellowed, and to have become much sweeter.. However, when I saw Stephen Gottlieb, a few weeks ago, he asked me whether 407 might not be too low in terms of reduced projection; so the other day, I raised the tension back up to 415, and it was indeed true that the lute projected more, but it almost seemed as though the mellowing had gone. This was subtle; but the sound seemed ever so slightly more reedy, or woody than at 407. So I tuned it back down to 408. The sound was again freer, and somewhat less woody. Now I am just wondering, could this simply be due to the lower tension at the bridge of the strings at 407/8, which gives less impedance to the resonance of the table; or could the mellowing (breaking-in) process be sensitive to the tension at which the lute has been set. (I suppose it could be both?) In other words, if I tune it back up to 415, and play the lute for a few months, would this slight woodiness go? I imagine the break-in process has something to do with a slight altering of the wood structure to accommodate the resonance patterns to which the wood is being constantly submitted, and to which it might naturally be prone to resist. If this is the case, perhaps the way a musician plays, and the diapason to which the lute is tuned could be relevant to this process (Ed Martin mentioned that his playing style resulted in a quicker break-in period than that of many other players). If this were so, could string-type choices also effect the ageing process? This break-in mellowing is clearly distinct from an ageing process, as the lute would not
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Missing Weiss
I am currently working on the C major suite in the Tree edition of 6 Weiss suites (the one that begins with an entrée, suite 12) but the last few bars are missing from the courante. Peter Lay from the English Lute Society says they were damaged but exist in another copy, the Das Erbe Deutscher Musik volume originally published in 1939. Would anyone be able to send me the missing bits? TIA Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Missing weiss
I have been sent the missing Weiss bars, so please do not go to any trouble to find them. (thanks anyway if you were going to look) Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Heluth
Beginning to get a bit fed up with heluth. Does he/she know how to use a computer? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] 13-course tension
I was wondering what tension people put on the 2 bass-rider strings of a 13-course lute. I have been putting around 2.4 Kg bass and 2.2 octave, it seems a bit slack (the other strings around 2.8 and 2.6) Thanks Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] harpsichord music
Sorry, this is not lute stuff, but a friend has asked me to find the score of any Spanish or Portugese Follia or Chaconne for solo harpsichord for a concert she is playing in soon. Any ides anyone? Thanks, Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Actus Tragicus
I have been asked to play theorbo accompaniment in Bach's Actus Tragicus cantata. The performance will be in F rather than Eb (for the recorders). Does anybody have a score of the work in F with the figured bass? Thanks Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] theorbo size
Just out of interest, what size chitaronne do you think Piccinini was playing when he wrote his pieces? I used to have a 92cm chitaronne and I can tell you not many of those pieces are playable on a monster like that. The theorbo I have now measures 85 cm and even then a lot of the pieces are only just playable, particularly the slurred passages and leaps from one end of the fingerboard to another. May be the Italians, like the French, had two basic sizes of chitaronne: one for solo pieces and one for accompanying. I don't know, I'm just wondering... Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] guitar stringing
Talking of stringing, where does the idea come from of having the octave string on guitars uppermost (i.e. towards the ceiling). It seems common practice. Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Baroque lute pitch
What strikes me about the pitch we tune baroque lutes to is that it seems to depend on 2 or 3 cms of string length (67 to 69cm = 415 / 71 to 74cm = 392). On the other hand, if you look at theorbos most are tuned to A 440 or 415 whatever the size. I have played theorbos measuring 74 cm up to 99 cm, all tuned the same. No consideration of pitch in relation to size seems to come into it when theorbos are concerned. It seems we are a bit less fussy about the monster lutes! Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] baroque lute + recorder
Any ideas for pieces with baroque lute (13-course) and treble recorder? Most of the chamber music repertoire seems to be for flute/violin + Cello + lute. Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Anthony Hind wrote: Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit : Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight instruments.
[LUTE] Re: Swanneck
Daniel Shoskes wrote: On Dec 2, 2007, at 4:40 AM, Nigel Solomon wrote: Admitedly I was using wound strings (has anybody ever tried keeping 24 gut strings in tune successfully for the time needed to play a single Weiss courante?). That is what I find interesting though. Long gut strings seem to be much more stable in terms of keeping in tune (and getting them there). I like the idea of long guts in the basses of a Jauch and then nylgut and KF for the fingerboard strings. BTW, I changed the 5th course copper wound on my archlute to the new KF G strings. Wonderful sound and very close in appearance and thunk to gut. DS --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. I find that the thicker the gut string, the more stable the tuning. On my theorbo diapasons (170cm) gut seems relatively stable, much more so than on the fingeboard strings where the thinnest is 0.54. Still, I defy anyone to tell me whether the theorbo is gut or nylgut strung in a concert with other instruments and singers. I think maybe ones audience might notice the difference in your living room sitting around the fire, perhaps the ideal concert conditions, you might say. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Swanneck
Edward Martin wrote: Yes, Nigel, I do it all the time. In fact, I had a concert in humid August this year, in which I performed on a Scottich mandour, an 11 course, and a 13 course bass rider lute. All are in gut (that is all I have had for baroque lutes for the past 12 years), and I did not have to adjust one single peg to re-tune. The only time I have tuning trouble is when the climate is changed during performance (i.e. someone turns off air conditioner, etc) The gut these days is so much more stable than the gut of some years ago. I actually find it easier to deal with, as compared to wound strings. ed At 10:40 AM 12/2/2007 +0100, Nigel Solomon wrote: (has anybody ever tried keeping 24 gut strings in tune successfully for the time needed to play a single Weiss courante?). Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Oh well, that told me! I guess you have to get to the venue hours before though to enable the instruments to adjust to the humidity. I am not flying a flag for synthetic strings, just that on the whole they are a little more reliable (particularly Pyramid wound which, despite sounding a bit tinny at first, just don't budge whatever the weather, etc. On my theorbo I have one wound Pyramid, the 6th (A) and I use it as a reference for keeping all the other strings in tune throughout the concert) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Spinaccino
Looks like he wrote for a small lute (in A?) looking at some of the chord shapes and hand stretches. Has anybody played these pieces on a larger (60 - 64) lute? Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning blues
Benjamin Stehr wrote: Hi Steward, i choosed a tension that works well in 440 on the extension of my theorbo. Changing to 415 caused the 8th course to touch the fretboard when playing very loud, but putting something under the saddle on the extension (about 1mm) increased the forward pull on the extension so that this is not a problem anymore. I can now change from 440 to 415 without changing strings or doing any corrections on the saddle and do not notice any effect on the angle of the extension. I guess the key is that if the diapasons are parallel to the fingered strings (and extension) the effect on the neck with a different tension will be much less. I change the tuning quite often between 415 and 440 - so far this was not a problem. Maybe you could get around the problem by doing adjustments on the upper saddle (like using different saddles for 415 or 440 to keep the angle of the neck)? Do the others on this list change the strings on their instruments between 415 and 440? Benjamin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Big instruments like theorbos don't seem to mind being tuned up or down a semi-tone, a slightly harder or weaker tension doesn't make much difference to the overall feel. On the other hand, smaller lutes react completely differently under different tension and I think you have to be a bit careful not to put them under too much strain.
[LUTE] vivaldi
Everything about it screams guitar to me: the sound, the nails, the general approach. Yes, a guitar that looks a bit like a lute! Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Vivaldi
Everything about it screams guitar to me: the sound, the nails, the general approach. Yes, a guitar that looks a bit like a lute! To me, everything about it screams liuto attiorbato, like a good many historical instruments in museums with fingerboard lengths under 60 cm and extension strings of 75-85 cm, played with nails the way historical Italian players would likely have played it. In the 90's Luca Pianca was playing instruments by the Swiss maker Luc Breton. I don't know if he still is. BTW, Giardino Armonico is playing here at A=392 (their D is the C on my wife's piano), so Luca's A would be G at A=440. The CD recording of the same concerto that Pianca and Giardino released in 1992 was at A=415. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Are any single strung? All of the existing liuto attiorbato, to my knowledge at least, are double strung on the fingerboard and most are double strung on the diapasons as well. I'm sure Luca is a decent guitarist, but his lute style reminds me of certain guitarist/lutenists of the 60s and 70s. Compromises are all very well but I think we do things a bit different nowadays --
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi
Roman Turovsky wrote: Are any single strung? All of the existing liuto attiorbato, to my You might have missed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang%C3%A9lique_%28instrument%29 knowledge at least, are double strung on the fingerboard and most are double strung on the diapasons as well. I'm sure Luca is a decent guitarist, but his lute style reminds me of certain guitarist/lutenists of the 60s and 70s. Compromises are all very well but I think we do things a bit different nowadays Nowadays we do things with a lot more varieties of approach. RT --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Yes, I knew about the angelique (and certain single-strung theorbos too), but I was not aware that any of the shorter Italian archlutes/attiorbato had single strings. I know single strings are more convenient, but on a very short instrument I think you lose the lute sound due to the octave stringing on the basses. On the other hand, double stringing is a nusiance if you want to be heard over an orchestra (you can't play as hard) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] theorbo string tension
My theorbo is 85/170, I'm thinking of putting 5 kg string (the 4.2 I have at present seems a bit low). How much tension do people put on their large theorbos? My idea would be to put 5 kg for 440 and keep the same strings for 415 (which would give around 4.5 kg), which is the pitch I keep it at most of the time Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] nylgut tensions
Talking about Nylgut, does everybody calculate tensions as for gut or do they add a little more (i.e. 0.40 gut = 0.42 Nylgut) Sometimes the tensions with Nylgut can feel a little slack to me Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Concert
I am giving a lute recital (baroque: Conradi, Weiss and Vivaldi lute trio) in Nottingham (UK) next Saturday evening, 15th May. The entrance is 15 pounds (including cheese wine in the interval). The proceeds are in aid of Brain Damaged Children and Adults. The concert is in a friend's house (max. 40 people). Please contact me if you would like details. Nigel Solomon
