[LUTE] Gut strings - The elephant in the room
Looking at all the discussion we've been having about gut strings - to load, or not to load, to wind or not to wind, to twist or not to twist . . . - one thing that hasn't come up for a while is how different modern gut seems to be from the old stuff. When you look at old pictures showing gut being used to string a lute, or the loose ends of gut hanging from a pegbox, it's clear that it was much softer stuff than the wire-like gut we have today. For a start it came in hanks. Try tying modern gut in a hank and it would look like crap when you unravel it - kinked, cracked, opaque . . . I have no knowledge of the differences between the manufacturing process for modern gut and that used long ago, but it must have been quite different. What difference would stiffness make? One possible difference is inharmonicity - the tendency of harmonics to be sharper in stiffer strings. This is something that piano tuners have to allow for routinely - because of the stiff wire strings. That's just a guess, though, and we won't know for sure until somebody makes old-style soft gut and performs a comparison. I'd have thought this would be a fairly straightforward thing for gut makers to do. Maybe somebody has already done it? Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings
Dear all, noboby has told us yet by which EU-regulation (kind of [e.g. directive?], year, number, date of publication, article no.) the production of gut strings should be prohibited. By now we only have the personal statement of Mimmo Perufo that strict European legislation (?) forbids the production and use of beef gut. Beeing a lawyer (and lutenist) I would appreciate more precise information to verify the statement. Henner -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Büro 0721-23984 Fax Büro 0721-20978 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings
Here is a beginning for you (if you can follow the legal jargon): There are several laws causing the crisis. One of these laws can be found here: in English: [1]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ%3AL%3A2004% 3A162%3A0062%3A0064%3AEN%3APDF Anthony __ De : henner.kahl...@t-online.de henner.kahl...@t-online.de A : Lutenet lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 15h55 Objet : [LUTE] Gut strings Dear all, noboby has told us yet by which EU-regulation (kind of [e.g. directive?], year, number, date of publication, article no.) the production of gut strings should be prohibited. By now we only have the personal statement of Mimmo Perufo that strict European legislation (?) forbids the production and use of beef gut. Beeing a lawyer (and lutenist) I would appreciate more precise information to verify the statement. Henner -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Buero 0721-23984 Fax Buero 0721-20978 To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ%3AL%3A2004%3A162%3A0062%3A0064%3AEN%3APDF 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] gut strings in Morocco
Dear lutenetters of America, A I have found out throught the french lutenet, that gut strings are still being made in Morocco: A [1]http://www.pure-corde.com/en A -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [2]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. http://www.pure-corde.com/en 2. http://www.estavel.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut Strings
Dear collective lute wisdom, is it true that the production of gut in Europe will be prohibited by European law? As stated on Aquila's web page the production of gut strings and import of raw materials will be prohibited: http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=190Itemid=1471lang=en I tried to contact the Italian ministry of Health, with no answer by now. I cannot believe that we pay bureaucratic douchebags that have nothing else to do than to make such decisions. What will be next? Warning lights on theorbos longer than 1,40m; mandatory rubber gloves for gut players? we To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings
So now I have one lute strung in gut (delightful!) and am wondering what folks do with all the extra string hanging from the peg box (I don't wind much on the pegs and simply trim the extra when using synthetic). If gut tends to break (I haven't had it on long enough to know if this is a tendency), the extra may be enough to re-string the same string, so I'm reluctant to trim it off. Do you who use gut trim it, leave it, or wind most of it on the pegs to keep things neater? Ned __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings - 'Universale corde musicali'
Has anybody experience of strings by this specialist Italian company offering 'Highest quality ram's and ox's gut strings for Renaissance, Baroque and Classical performance'? On their website they only show price lists for violin and gamba family instruments but offer 'Special ox's gut strings', High twist ram gut strings' Venice catlines' amongs others so I suppose culd provide suitable strings for lutes/guitars. Prices look good (especially fret gut). MH x's twist', 'Venice Catlines' so I suppose - For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Gut strings - 'Universale corde mu sicali'
Martyn I only know the MP ones. I nearly tried some Universale, but never got round to it. I think that the price of gut is not all that high, if you consider the research (that we don't pay for). Perhaps, if more musicians showed interest in gut the price might come down slightly, but perhaps, more interestingly the quality might go up. It is not that strings are bad now; but apparently, if the old techniques were fully employed (long periods of soaking the gut in various solutions), we could have some very superior strings, indeed. However, this is so time consuming (I am told) that it may not be a simple question of price. Best regards Anthony Le 24 aout 07 =E0 18:05, Martyn Hodgson a ecrit : Many thanks for this Anthony. My main motive for asking was the increasing cost of gut (especially fret gut oddly enough) and Universale's prices seemed very competitive - hence if their quality was OK then I'd order from them rather than MP or Sofracob or Kurschner or others. In your email I'm not wholly clear if the Venice strings which you mention as being v good are Aquila's or Universale's - grateful for clarification. Regarding numbers of guts in a string, you may also be aware of the view that the old trebles had a significantly higher tensile strength because they were made of a single well selected gut rather than two or three thinner guts twisted together which inevitably introduced an element of discontinuity within the string: I'm not aware that modern string makers have taken this challenge up yet. regards, MH Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Martyn I don't know whether they are similar to Aquila Venice which are a twine of two elements, and not a tress of three like Pistoys. This according to Mimmo Perfuffo results in a more flexible string; but I suppose flexibilty may not be everything. I found the Venice very good, particularly on the 4th course, where Pistoys can't work. According to MP it doesn't matter what material (ram, cow etc) that the gut comes from. He claims to have made blind tests to prove this. On the other hand today we no longer find gut made from whole gut, but strips. This might make a difference, perhaps. A friend of my daughter has begun to keep a couple of vintage rare breed sheep, and I notice how small and wild they look, more like miniature goats (even the female has horns). I wonder whether sheep up to the 17th century would not have been much smaller than today. I don't know whether that means the intestines would have been smaller though. It is just a thought. M.P. also tells me that he has now rediscovered much of the old technology in his ongoing research, and could produce some strings as strong as nylon; however, the process would be painstakingly long, and I suppose they would be very expensive. I know that Dan Larson made a gimped string with tungsten that was exceptionally true, and well liked by the lucky few who could try it. This may not be historic, but I suppose it was cost that meant the string remained in prototype form. I have the impression that if more lutists showed interest in gut strings, we would see some very interesting developments in this area. Regards Anthony Le 24 aout 07 =E0 17:10, Martyn Hodgson a ecrit : Has anybody experience of strings by this specialist Italian company offering 'Highest quality ram's and ox's gut strings for Renaissance, Baroque and Classical performance'? On their website they only show price lists for violin and gamba family instruments but offer 'Special ox's gut strings', High twist ram gut strings' Venice catlines' amongs others so I suppose culd provide suitable strings for lutes/guitars. Prices look good (especially fret gut). MH x's twist', 'Venice Catlines' so I suppose - For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Gut strings in practice
is there a mathematical relationship between humidity/temperature/frequency and string diameter that one can use to retune gut strings predictively ,as a process of successive approximation? for instance, I played in two different locations on two consecutive nights. The first night was awful and I spent a good 15 minutes retuning in between pieces, despite having retuned at the start of the evening when the hall was 'full'. I retuned the strings when I got home but noted the degree of 'out-of-tuneness in cents' on the meter - for each of the gut strings. The next night, I reset those gut strings by 50% of the displacement (approx 10cents) before entering the hall and then checked the tuning about 30 minutes later. The tuning was almost 'spot - on' and was very easy to fine-tune. I have only done this on one occasion so I don't know whether this is reasonable approach or not. BTW, the humidity in this area is high and didn't change very much. I would be interested to hear how experienced 'gut-players' approach the tuning problem. regards Charles To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
