[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006, Christopher Witmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > My first question: > Assuming one will eventually be playing variety of lutes, is there any > consensus on a best type of instrument with which to begin? Your 13-yr old daughter probably has some growing to do, hand size will be an issue. A 6-course lute in A might be considered, higher in pitch and overall smaller than the usual tenor lute in G the A lute is useful in consort and there is considerable duo literature for two lutes a tone apart (one G, one A). You could also consider other plucked instruments, renaissance guitar, cittern (choices here). The lute-song repetoir is challenging, hopefully she will be content with easier material initialy. For full exploration of elizabethan solo lute material one will want a 7 or 8-course instrument, but that can come later. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
At 06:31 PM 3/20/2006, Thomas Schall wrote: >That's exactly my point. It's a matter of imagination: If I imagine the >lute of Weiss or Dowland I would be far off if I would call a >Wandervogellute the appropriate instrument (and similar would be the >mandolin, Liuto Forte, Charango or what else). >On the other hand I often experienced (in germany) the way vice versa. >When trying to get gigs and said I would play the lute I often have >heard: "We don't want german folk music being played here" - those guys >imagined a Wandervogellute when hearing the term "lute". You may forgive >me if I'm preferring the lute to be imagined related to Weiss and >Dowland rather than to the german Folk-music of the Wandervoegel. That's why descriptors become useful to clarify where different instrument types share names. Of course, the lute of Weiss is about as similar to the lute of Dowland as either are like the lutes/lauten of the wandervogel era. When there might be confusion regarding which homophone I have in mind, it's useful to give a word or two of explanation. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
Dear Eugene, That's exactly my point. It's a matter of imagination: If I imagine the lute of Weiss or Dowland I would be far off if I would call a Wandervogellute the appropriate instrument (and similar would be the mandolin, Liuto Forte, Charango or what else). On the other hand I often experienced (in germany) the way vice versa. When trying to get gigs and said I would play the lute I often have heard: "We don't want german folk music being played here" - those guys imagined a Wandervogellute when hearing the term "lute". You may forgive me if I'm preferring the lute to be imagined related to Weiss and Dowland rather than to the german Folk-music of the Wandervoegel. Best wishes Thomas -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Eugene C. Braig IV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 20. März 2006 15:58 An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul" At 05:15 AM 3/18/2006, Thomas Schall wrote: Just keep in mind that we aren't discussing Linnean systematics or Darwinian evolution. An named instrumental concept simply is whatever its contemporaries called it. These concepts can all borrow from one another with no rhyme or reason. Trying to conceive of a cladogram to describe the whole will result in a tangled and nonsensical mess. Imposing a sense of familial relationship beyond a physical description of the sound-producing mechanism is more for the convenience of those thinking about such things than it is real. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
At 05:15 AM 3/18/2006, Thomas Schall wrote: >So what makes a lute? > >The main thing which confuses could be that if we/I am/are speaking of >lutes I >think of double-strung historical european instruments with a corpus in shape >of a pear. >Although I would count the Oud, Saz, Shamisen but also the mandolins and - >yes >- the Wandervogel"lute" among the family of instruments to which the european >lute belongs, too, my imagination is limited in so far to see the >Wandervogellute, the mandolin, the liuto forte and so on as related to the >lute I am imagining with the term "lute". We already have had such >discussions in connection to the Charango :-) >Even H.Scherrer, who was a pioneer in lute-playing and a leading figure in >the >youth movement made a rather strong distinction to the "noble instrument of >the lute". Just keep in mind that we aren't discussing Linnean systematics or Darwinian evolution. An named instrumental concept simply is whatever its contemporaries called it. These concepts can all borrow from one another with no rhyme or reason. Trying to conceive of a cladogram to describe the whole will result in a tangled and nonsensical mess. Imposing a sense of familial relationship beyond a physical description of the sound-producing mechanism is more for the convenience of those thinking about such things than it is real. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
At 01:37 AM 3/18/2006, Stephen Fryer wrote: >Well I've seen a lautengitarre but this is my first for a >theorbengitarre! Basically it is a guitar trying to be a theorbo. Not as common as the 6-string Wandervogel-era lauten, but they still aren't uncommon. Of course, they are more functionally related to the 19th-c. guitars with sub-E diapasons, or even the 18th-c. French "theorboed" guitars, than they are to any lute relative. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
On Mar 18, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Christopher Witmer wrote: > My first question: > Assuming one will eventually be playing variety of lutes, is there any > consensus on a best type of instrument with which to begin? This question comes up periodically here and you may get a bunch of follow up questions asking what repertoire she is particularly interested in and recommendations for 6, 7 & 8 course lutes for a beginner Ren music lute. There seems to be a large number of people who get 8 course instruments in order to cover a large range of music. This is a reasonable choice. I would say a 7 course instrument is even more reasonable for two reasons: 1. HIP There isn't all that much tab specifically for 8 courses compared to that for 7 courses. 2. It is easier to deal with 7 courses than 8. The downside is you have to retune your 8th course between F and D. I had an 8 course instrument and the strings were two close together and I was having twanging problems so I had the bridge redrilled as a 7 course instrument. It is easier to play. There is very little 8 course music that can't be played on a 7 course. Dowland's King of Denmark's Galliard is about the only one that is problematical that springs to mind. On the other hand, it is convenient to have an F and a D (8 courses) and can eliminate having to fret a note to get F when you are in D tuning. So to sum up, a 7 course is easier for the RH for much music because you won't accidentally hit the 8th course and it has 7/8ths as many strings to deal with. An 8 course is easier for the LH for some music because you don't have to fret an F. (Sometimes you want to fret it so you can articulate it or control how long it rings) In my personal repertoire, I find a majority of the music I play is for 6 course, lute songs tend to use D for the 7th and solos tend to use F. I simply group the pieces that use a 7th in F together, and the ones for D together. I try to remember to retune one song before so that the tuning doesn't wander back. In other words in performance, I quickly retune, play a 6 course piece to give the strings time to settle and then adjust the tuning of the 7th again quickly. > My second question: > What on earth is this? > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7398226111) It is a lute guitar (lutar) as stated: a lute shaped instrument built more like a guitar with 10 single strings. If you love lute music, you probably don't want it. Good luck. Keep us informed. cheers, To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
Welcome to the world of Early Music and the Lute. I don't know whether I am giving you a consensus on what Lute to obtain, there are as many opinions as there are Lute players. However logically, an 8 course Lute makes the most sense. Early Lute works were written mostly for a 6 course instrument and there is a huge amount of literature available for this configuration. In the middle years of the 16th Century more courses were added to as many as 10 courses before we start going into Baroque instruments. However that being said an 8 course Lute is capable of playing a lot of ten course music with some tuning changes, it can play 6, 7, and 8 course music with no trouble. So if the idea is to find an instrument that will give you a wide over view of the majority of the literature prior to the Baroque era you would do well to obtain an 8 course instrument. If you have the opportunity to go to Cleveland you might find the Lute you want for sale there. Also if you have the opportunity to take some lessons from some of the great in Lute performance I would go for it. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: "Christopher Witmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:17 AM Subject: [LUTE] Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul" > Hello, > > Our whole family loves "early music" and the kids, ranging in age from 4 > to 18, are all involved. The oldest is about to enter her second year as > a voice major in a local conservatory of music, and I expect that at > least some of the younger siblings will go that route as well. > > My 13-year-old daughter, who has been playing only keyboard instruments > until now, is about to start lute lessons, something that she has looked > forward to for a long time. She loves Elizabethan lute songs and the > music of Bach, as well as everything in between, so she will probably > wind up playing a variety of instruments. > > My first question: > Assuming one will eventually be playing variety of lutes, is there any > consensus on a best type of instrument with which to begin? Of course, > we'll discuss this with the teacher too, but any opinions would be > appreciated. By the way, my daughter has no previous experience with guitar. > > My second question: > What on earth is this? > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7398226111) > I'm not very knowledgeable on lutes, but it doesn't look like anything > I've seen before . . . > > Thanks! > > Chris Witmer > Tokyo > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
> Now of course if you are from Tokyo, Ohio (not just Ohayo Gozaimashita), ROTFLOL! Thank you, very funny.:- David David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
Nothing beats trying out different instruments yourself first. A "man of many lutes" who lives in Tokyo is Ed Drubrow: http:// www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ Going to local society meetings can also be a great resource, and beginners are typically welcome and encouraged. Here is one in Japan: http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/lgs/ Now of course if you are from Tokyo, Ohio (not just Ohio Gozimashta), the Lute society of America's festival is the last week of June in Cleveland: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/seminar/Cleveland2006/ index.html With private lessons available from people like O'Dette, McFarlane, O'Brien, Satoh etc, it would be like Yo-Yo Ma teaching your daughter how to play open strings on the cello or Yvgeny Kissin showing her middle C on the piano! I had my first beginner lesson at a festival like this, and there really is nothing to be intimidated about. DS On Mar 18, 2006, at 1:17 AM, Christopher Witmer wrote: > Hello, > > Our whole family loves "early music" and the kids, ranging in age > from 4 > to 18, are all involved. The oldest is about to enter her second > year as > a voice major in a local conservatory of music, and I expect that at > least some of the younger siblings will go that route as well. > > My 13-year-old daughter, who has been playing only keyboard > instruments > until now, is about to start lute lessons, something that she has > looked > forward to for a long time. She loves Elizabethan lute songs and the > music of Bach, as well as everything in between, so she will probably > wind up playing a variety of instruments. > > My first question: > Assuming one will eventually be playing variety of lutes, is there any > consensus on a best type of instrument with which to begin? Of course, > we'll discuss this with the teacher too, but any opinions would be > appreciated. By the way, my daughter has no previous experience > with guitar. > > My second question: > What on earth is this? > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7398226111) > I'm not very knowledgeable on lutes, but it doesn't look like anything > I've seen before . . . > > Thanks! > > Chris Witmer > Tokyo > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hello from total newbies who are in for the "long haul"
So what makes a lute? The main thing which confuses could be that if we/I am/are speaking of lutes I think of double-strung historical european instruments with a corpus in shape of a pear. Although I would count the Oud, Saz, Shamisen but also the mandolins and - yes - the Wandervogel"lute" among the family of instruments to which the european lute belongs, too, my imagination is limited in so far to see the Wandervogellute, the mandolin, the liuto forte and so on as related to the lute I am imagining with the term "lute". We already have had such discussions in connection to the Charango :-) Even H.Scherrer, who was a pioneer in lute-playing and a leading figure in the youth movement made a rather strong distinction to the "noble instrument of the lute". Best wishes Thomas Am Samstag 18 März 2006 11:42 schrieb Mathias Rösel: > I'm tired of statements like this, I must say. It is a lute-lute-lute. A > wandervogel-lute, to be precise. There are models with six bass strings, > too. Here is a picture: > > http://www.reycarlos85.forum.ac/richedit/upload/2kf94ffe047b.jpg > > You might want to read about the origins in the recent issue of the > German Lute Society's bulletin Lauten-Info 4/2005, p. 14-20. Youcan find > there an article by lute-pioneer Hans Dagobert Bruger: "Herkunft und > Entwicklung der modernen (einchoerigen) Laute" (On Origins and > Development of the Modern, Single-Strung, Lute), reprint of: > Musikantengilde Nr. 2 (1926). Wandervogel lutes are proper lutes. Wonder > why some dark-sided pure-bloods >;) don't eventually stop sneering at > them. -- Thomas Schall Wiesentalstrasse 41 CH-8355 Aadorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++41 (0) 52 365 00 04 http://www.lautenist.de http://www.lautenist.de/bduo/ http://www.lautenist.de/gitarre/ http://www.tslaute.de/weiss/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
