[LUTE] Re: Letter to the Editor
I wonder if artistic education needs comparision. What else should be the sense of developing formal criteria. I don't see any practical advantage of putting education into a more or less fixed schema. Except comparision of the educating institutes. Actually the institutes are on a very high level and I would consider it a step back if Hoppy (at the Schola in Basel) or Konrad Junghänel (in Cologne) should be pressed into a schema of teaching (the same applies of course for the conservatories and universities offering lute studies in the rest of the world). Thomas - Original Message - From: ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "David Rastall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "baroque Lutelist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:19 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Letter to the Editor No idea as far as the US is concerned, but I've come to know that there is an initiative of music teachers in Switzerland to develop criteria of formal lute training. Oliver Holtzenburg, organizer of the International Festival of the Lute (this time taking place in Regenburg, Germany, on 5th--7th Apr) is heavily involved. Anyone in Old Europe who is interested, ask him! Mathias "David Rastall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: On Mar 2, 2008, at 9:36 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote: > For those of us who don't have (and who have never had) teachers, > this is a great way to learn. Stephen's comment brings to mind something I have been thinking about for some time: how many of us in the lute world can claim to have "studied" with a teacher for any substantial length of time? Is the idea of studying an instrument with someone an impractical notion nowadays? It seems to me that most of the instruction on the lute, at least that most people talk about, is received at seminar workshop weeks, master-class weekends etc., mostly in informal settings. It's a bit like the folk music world: mention almost anything that constitutes a formal background in music, and the cry goes up: I don't need that! I don't need to know theory. I don't need notation. I don't need to know this, I don't need to know that. (in the lute world we do know history, I'll give us that!) If you're an independent music teacher, I'm sure you have heard people say, "I don't want to learn music. I just want to learn the (fill in the name of the instrument)." In the old days of learning classical guitar in the 60's, there was very little opportunity to study with anyone unless you happened to live near a big city, and there just happened to be a teacher nearby who could give you instruction. Today the infrastructure is in place to study the guitar formally: national- and state-certified educators with advanced degrees and considerable performing experience are working in colleges and universities throughout the world teaching music on the guitar. I wonder if the lute world will ever advance that far. We don't seem to have moved much further forward in developing this type of infrastructure for lute-related studies than we were 35 years ago. Lutenists may not be as thick on the ground yet as guitarists, but there are more and more of us every year, and we're getting higher visibility than ever before. Perhaps the movers and shakers in the lute world need to address this. As far as I know, there are very few places one can go to receive a formal education on the lute, and even fewer to learn how to teach the lute. If I wanted to become a guitar teacher, a piano teacher, even at my age it's obvious where I would go for my education. But if I wanted to become a lute teacher where would I go? Where do I look to find somebody who can teach me to teach the lute? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Letter to the Editor
No idea as far as the US is concerned, but I've come to know that there is an initiative of music teachers in Switzerland to develop criteria of formal lute training. Oliver Holtzenburg, organizer of the International Festival of the Lute (this time taking place in Regenburg, Germany, on 5th--7th Apr) is heavily involved. Anyone in Old Europe who is interested, ask him! Mathias "David Rastall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > On Mar 2, 2008, at 9:36 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote: > > > For those of us who don't have (and who have never had) teachers, > > this is a great way to learn. > > Stephen's comment brings to mind something I have been thinking about > for some time: how many of us in the lute world can claim to have > "studied" with a teacher for any substantial length of time? Is the > idea of studying an instrument with someone an impractical notion > nowadays? It seems to me that most of the instruction on the lute, > at least that most people talk about, is received at seminar workshop > weeks, master-class weekends etc., mostly in informal settings. > > It's a bit like the folk music world: mention almost anything that > constitutes a formal background in music, and the cry goes up: I > don't need that! I don't need to know theory. I don't need > notation. I don't need to know this, I don't need to know that. (in > the lute world we do know history, I'll give us that!) If you're an > independent music teacher, I'm sure you have heard people say, "I > don't want to learn music. I just want to learn the (fill in the > name of the instrument)." > > In the old days of learning classical guitar in the 60's, there was > very little opportunity to study with anyone unless you happened to > live near a big city, and there just happened to be a teacher nearby > who could give you instruction. Today the infrastructure is in place > to study the guitar formally: national- and state-certified > educators with advanced degrees and considerable performing > experience are working in colleges and universities throughout the > world teaching music on the guitar. > > I wonder if the lute world will ever advance that far. We don't seem > to have moved much further forward in developing this type of > infrastructure for lute-related studies than we were 35 years ago. > Lutenists may not be as thick on the ground yet as guitarists, but > there are more and more of us every year, and we're getting higher > visibility than ever before. > > Perhaps the movers and shakers in the lute world need to address > this. As far as I know, there are very few places one can go to > receive a formal education on the lute, and even fewer to learn how > to teach the lute. If I wanted to become a guitar teacher, a piano > teacher, even at my age it's obvious where I would go for my > education. But if I wanted to become a lute teacher where would I > go? Where do I look to find somebody who can teach me to teach the > lute? > > David R > [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Letter to the Editor
On Mar 3, 2008, at 10:27 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > I think it would be a shame if we started to emulate classical guitar > pedagogy. Every year there are AMAZING guitarists coming out of these > institutions, far more than we ever hear about. There is no work for > 99.99per cent of them. Most of the ones I've heard sound like wannabe > David Russell's. Well, there's nothing actually, y'know, wrong? with being able to play like David Russell; after all, the guy *can* play the paint off the walls! ;-) > I like the fact that every lute player sounds different. > The less > streamlining the better, IMHO. In Baroque lute, purely a personal preference, I do look for some amount of standardization. DR, to some extent playing the devil's advocate... [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Letter to the Editor
Good email, David. I had four lute lessons, two from Jacob Lindberg, two from David Miller. Learned enough to realise that these guys could play better than they could teach. Been stumbling on my own for years now. Made my own mistakes. Found my own voice (for better or worse). I think it would be a shame if we started to emulate classical guitar pedagogy. Every year there are AMAZING guitarists coming out of these institutions, far more than we ever hear about. There is no work for 99.99per cent of them. Most of the ones I've heard sound like wannabe David Russell's. I like the fact that every lute player sounds different. The less streamlining the better, IMHO. We can learn a lot from these newsgroups, I know I have. With a little less bitching, a little more sharing, we could all learn a lot more from each other. Especially now more players are utilising video. I intend to try it myself sometime. How much did lute players learn about music (not just lute playing) in the Renaissance and Baroque periods? As for your last paragraph - there are of course already quite a few institutions with a formal lute programme. They tend to be in capital cities. Do we really NEED more? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
