[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Howard Posner]

On Tuesday, Apr 10, 2007, at 04:46 America/Los_Angeles, Daniel Shoskes 
wrote:

> I don't have access to the liner notes online.  Is there any 
> historical precedent for a lute/mandolin pairing in the Baroque?

I have the LSA Quarterly review copy, and the liner notes say little 
more than that Weiss knew what a mandolin was:

"His chamber music is less well known, on account of its mostly 
incomplete state.  Sometimes the intended scorings are clear, but only 
the lute parts survive.  The pieces recorded here (from a manuscript in 
the British Library) do not even have indications of scoring.  The idea 
of performing them with mandolin was inspired by Weiss's free treatment 
of some of his own works; one existed, for example, in versions for two 
lutes and for lute and flute.  It is also very probable that Weiss 
would have encountered mandolin players among his many Italian 
colleagues in Dresden."



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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 01:48 PM 4/10/2007, Are Vidar Boye Hansen wrote:
>Rolf Lislevand has just recorded Vivaldi's mandolin concertos on a soprano
>lute. The reason I have heard for this is that he could not find a baroque
>mandolin and meant that the musical result would not be that different.

That's an odd statement.  Modern reproductions are common and period 5- to 
6-course mandolini, as required by the Vivaldi, outnumber lutes in collections.

Eugene 



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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 12:10 PM 4/10/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Actually I recorded Tinazzoli and Fontanelli last summer, with baroque
>lute and mandolin, but it'll take some time before the cd is out..
>The lute part is continuo to be written, if you want to obtain
>something nice..

Those are weird pieces.  Sometimes I really like them, but sometimes 
they're weird.  I will look forward to hearing your (and can I assume 
Marion's?) take on them.

Best,
Eugene



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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 07:46 AM 4/10/2007, Daniel Shoskes wrote:
>Interesting new CD from Naxos with a Baroque lute / Mandolin pairing:
>
>http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.557716
>
>Nice to hear the d minor Weiss duet recorded. I'm working on that piece 
>now with Kenneth Be using Charlie's reconstruction, which I don't think 
>has ever been recorded yet (it's the one duet missing from Barto's Weiss 
>duet CD).

Of the D-minor duet, Michel Cardin tweaked the Hadidians flute setting for 
vol. 12 of his London manuscript series.  It's fun to aurally compare the 
Ahlert reconstruction (which I find quite nice) to the other (which is also 
quite nice).


>I don't have access to the liner notes online. Is there any historical 
>precedent for a lute/mandolin pairing in the Baroque?

I picked my copy up on the 1st.  I also own Ahlert & Schwab's other 
recordings on modern or early 20th-c. instruments.  If you'd really like, I 
can transcribe the liner notes of this new one when home from the office 
tonight.  I don't believe it's written in the liner notes, but the melody 
line is Daniel's own reconstruction.  Daniel plays a 6-course mandolino by 
Sebastian Nunez patterned after an 18th-c. original by Maraffi.  Ahlert & 
Schwab's approach here is nicely and conservatively phrased, perfectly 
clean, quite "Germanic."  I really like this effort, but I don't think it 
makes an attempt at HIP beyond the selection of reproduction oldish 
instruments.  Last I knew, Daniel always plays mandolino with a quill.  You 
can find a little more here:


Another composer who worked at Dresden was Carlo Arrigoni, who wrote at 
least two good quality sonatas and a concerto for mandolino.  Johann Adolph 
Hasse, also in Dresden, wrote a lovely concerto for mandolino.  ...Even 
Handel used it in the oratorio Alexander Balus.  Weiss likely had 
encountered the instrument at some time or another.  Even a little more 
quirky to me than the use of 6-course mandolino in Weiss is the selection 
of archlute for the continuo line (in spite of late-baroque precedents) in 
the Hoffman, a very solidly rococo composer who (if I recall correctly, 
removed from appropriate references in the day-job office) worked in Vienna 
around 1800.  Of the Hoffman sonatas, I'm particularly fond of Duilio 
Galfetti's (of Il Giardino Armonico fame) recording accompanied by 
fortepiano (I don't recall the keyboard player's name here from the day-job 
office).

For those who aren't familiar (and those who are, please forgive me), this 
breed of "mandolin" is much more lute like than the Neapolitan type: likely 
was played with the fingers in the baroque era, strung in gut tied directly 
to a fixed bridge, and tuned wholly or mostly in fourths: typically [g-g], 
b-b, e'-e', a'-a', d"-d", g"-g".

Best,
Eugene 
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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Are Vidar Boye Hansen]

Rolf Lislevand has just recorded Vivaldi's mandolin concertos on a soprano 
lute. The reason I have heard for this is that he could not find a baroque 
mandolin and meant that the musical result would not be that different.


Are

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, Edward Martin wrote:

> There is a difference.  The descant lute has a lute tuning, but they are
> often tuned with the first course in a high d.  The mandolino (that is, the
> Milanese or Lombard mandolino) has the first course a 4th higher, with the
> first course in g, the 2nd d, the 3rd in a, the 4th in e, the 5th in b, and
> the 6th in g.
>
> ed
>
>
>
>
>
> At 04:06 PM 4/10/2007 +, Mathias R=F6sel wrote:
>> Don't want to open a can of worms, but... -- there is little difference
>> between a mandolino and a descant lute, right? I mean, it still is two
>> lutes, right?
>
>
>
> Edward Martin
> 2817 East 2nd Street
> Duluth, Minnesota  55812
> e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> voice:  (218) 728-1202
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Edward Martin]

There is a difference.  The descant lute has a lute tuning, but they are 
often tuned with the first course in a high d.  The mandolino (that is, the 
Milanese or Lombard mandolino) has the first course a 4th higher, with the 
first course in g, the 2nd d, the 3rd in a, the 4th in e, the 5th in b, and 
the 6th in g.

ed





At 04:06 PM 4/10/2007 +, Mathias Rösel wrote:
>Don't want to open a can of worms, but... -- there is little difference
>between a mandolino and a descant lute, right? I mean, it still is two
>lutes, right?



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202





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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Actually I recorded Tinazzoli and Fontanelli last summer, with baroque 
lute and mandolin, but it'll take some time before the cd is out..
The lute part is continuo to be written, if you want to obtain 
something nice..

Donatella

Messaggio originale
Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Data: 10/04/2007 18.06
A: "Lute List"
Ogg: [LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

"Eric Liefeld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> I've ordered the CD but haven't heard it yet.

I went straight into the store and snatched the last copy. Lucky me 
>:)

> > I don't have access to the liner notes online. Is there any  
> > historical precedent for a lute/mandolin pairing in the Baroque?
> 
> I'm not aware of any specific pairing of Baroque (D-minor) lute with
> the mandolino, but archlute certainly.  The Dalla Casa manuscript
> provides:
> 
> - Suonata a Mandolino, e ArciLeuto obligati Del Sig. Antonio 
Tinazzoli
> - Two Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Giuseppe Vaccari
> - Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Lodvico Fontanelli
> - Suonata con Grave e suo Minuetto a Mandola e Baso -- del Arcileuto

Don't want to open a can of worms, but... -- there is little 
difference
between a mandolino and a descant lute, right? I mean, it still is two
lutes, right?
-- 
Mathias



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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Mathias Rösel]

"Eric Liefeld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> I've ordered the CD but haven't heard it yet.

I went straight into the store and snatched the last copy. Lucky me >:)

> > I don't have access to the liner notes online. Is there any  
> > historical precedent for a lute/mandolin pairing in the Baroque?
> 
> I'm not aware of any specific pairing of Baroque (D-minor) lute with
> the mandolino, but archlute certainly.  The Dalla Casa manuscript
> provides:
> 
> - Suonata a Mandolino, e ArciLeuto obligati Del Sig. Antonio Tinazzoli
> - Two Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Giuseppe Vaccari
> - Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Lodvico Fontanelli
> - Suonata con Grave e suo Minuetto a Mandola e Baso -- del Arcileuto

Don't want to open a can of worms, but... -- there is little difference
between a mandolino and a descant lute, right? I mean, it still is two
lutes, right?
-- 
Mathias



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[LUTE] Re: New Weiss CD

[Eric Liefeld]

Hi Daniel,

I've ordered the CD but haven't heard it yet.

> I don't have access to the liner notes online. Is there any  
> historical precedent for a lute/mandolin pairing in the Baroque?

I'm not aware of any specific pairing of Baroque (D-minor) lute with
the mandolino, but archlute certainly.  The Dalla Casa manuscript
provides:

- Suonata a Mandolino, e ArciLeuto obligati Del Sig. Antonio Tinazzoli
- Two Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Giuseppe Vaccari
- Concerti a Mandolino, e Baso del ArciLeuto Di Lodvico Fontanelli
- Suonata con Grave e suo Minuetto a Mandola e Baso -- del Arcileuto

I also remember Ray Nurse telling me (years ago) that there was an
archlute case (from the Dolmetsch collection?) that had a little space
shaped to hold a mandolino.

Best,

Eric

---
Eric Liefeld
(505) 526-1230
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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