[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-08 Thread Nigel Solomon

Anthony Hind wrote:


Arto
If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old  
wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard  
instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few  
hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a  
problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think.


Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from  
1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a  
little earleir than that?)
Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I  
mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am  
told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two  
lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same  
atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute  
makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like  
your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change?

Anthony

Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit :


Dear Arto

I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young  
ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your  
older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price  
when still older! ;-)


David


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes...



Dear lutenists,

I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old  -  from  1986 -
2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see
 http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html

Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much
better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new
ones made by you and Sandy?  ;-)   The old ones anyhow sound still  
nice..


Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes  increased
significantly in the last ten-twenty years?

All the best,

Arto



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html






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Orange vous informe que cet  e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus 
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If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, the 
fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly heavier 
than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain extent, in 
reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 60s and 70s 
and therefore made feather-weight instruments.





[LUTE] Re: old lutes

2007-12-08 Thread Martin Eastwell
Exactly what is soundboard re-tensioning?


Martin


On 8/12/07 08:01, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just retension the soundboard, and at the same time say which notes
 you would like to better, and a skilled luthier can do this, and it
 will sound better than a new one.
 I have a theorbo from 1983 from Klaus that has been retensioned twice
 and the sound is the most interesting.
 
 dt
 
 
 
 
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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





[LUTE] [Re: Old lutes...]

2007-12-08 Thread Manolo Laguillo
My 10 courses was built by Ray Nurse nearly 30 years ago, back in 1979.
And my baroque 13 courses, recently acquired, was made by Michael Lowe 
in 1985.
Both are very light, and of course have a beautiful sound.
Old can mean good.
Saludos from Barcelona,
Manolo Laguillo

Nigel Solomon wrote:

 Anthony Hind wrote:

 Arto
 If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old  
 wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard  
 instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few  
 hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a  
 problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think.

 Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from  
 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a  
 little earleir than that?)
 Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I  
 mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I 
 am  told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between 
 two  lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the 
 same  atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some 
 lute  makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you 
 like  your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why 
 change?
 Anthony

 Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit :

 Dear Arto

 I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young  
 ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your  
 older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price  
 when still older! ;-)

 David


 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes...



 Dear lutenists,

 I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old  -  from  
 1986 -
 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see
  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html

 Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much
 better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new
 ones made by you and Sandy?  ;-)   The old ones anyhow sound still  
 nice..

 Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes  increased
 significantly in the last ten-twenty years?

 All the best,

 Arto



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





 ---
  

 Orange vous informe que cet  e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus 
 mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.



 If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, 
 the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly 
 heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain 
 extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 
 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight instruments.




--


[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-08 Thread Anthony Hind


Le 8 déc. 07 à 10:20, Nigel Solomon a écrit :


Anthony Hind wrote:


Arto
If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and  
old  wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat  
soundboard  instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's  
soundboard is a few  hundred years old. They can also be resound- 
boarded if there is a  problem, of course, but it is not that  
cheap, I think.


Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes  
from  1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut- 
off a  little earleir than that?)
Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side  
( I  mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The  
problem, I am  told, is that there could sometimes be a big  
difference between two  lutes with even one year or less  
difference coming from the same  atellier. Apparently lutes are  
never identical, although some lute  makers are more consistent  
than others. Neverteheless, if you like  your lute, as much or  
more, than one that is more recent, why change?

Anthony




Nigel Solomon wrote:


If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes,  
the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them  
slightly heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to  
a certain extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like  
instruments of the 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight  
instruments.


Nigel
The question is perhaps which ones are closest to the historical  
models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are lutemakers  
responding to demands from lutists worried about problems of modern  
concert hall acoustics and need for greater projection, or is this a  
result of better understanding of the original models, or perhaps a  
little of both?

Regards
Anthony



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[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-08 Thread chriswilke
Anthony,

--- Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The question is perhaps which ones are closest to
 the historical  
 models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are
 lutemakers  
 responding to demands from lutists worried about
 problems of modern  
 concert hall acoustics and need for greater
 projection, or is this a  
 result of better understanding of the original
 models, or perhaps a  
 little of both?
 Regards
 Anthony
 

Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had
a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on
region, taste, musical style, etc.?  I would suspect
there would be a lot of variation in minor details of
lute construction the non-standardized past.


Chris


  

Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping



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[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-08 Thread Anthony Hind

Good point, and it would depend on the period of course.
Anthony

Le 8 déc. 07 à 15:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :


Anthony,

--- Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The question is perhaps which ones are closest to
the historical
models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are
lutemakers
responding to demands from lutists worried about
problems of modern
concert hall acoustics and need for greater
projection, or is this a
result of better understanding of the original
models, or perhaps a
little of both?
Regards
Anthony



Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had
a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on
region, taste, musical style, etc.?  I would suspect
there would be a lot of variation in minor details of
lute construction the non-standardized past.


Chris


   
__ 
__

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/ 
newsearch/category.php?category=shopping




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[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-08 Thread Daniel Winheld
Some historic builders had their own problems- if 
I remember my secondary sources correctly, the 
Thirty Years War wiped out the lute building 
center of Füssen and all lute building traditions 
associated with it; consequently some of the 
German 18th century lute building standards were 
just not up to par (inauthentically 
weighted/shaped) for some time, hence E.G. Baron 
preferring certain foreign made instruments. 
Perhaps a less foggy mind could weigh in and help 
me out here.   Dan



Good point, and it would depend on the period of course.
Anthony


Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had
a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on
region, taste, musical style, etc.?  I would suspect
there would be a lot of variation in minor details of
lute construction the non-standardized past.
Chris


--



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[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-07 Thread LGS-Europe

Dear Arto

I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still 
have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, 
if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-)


David


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes...



Dear lutenists,

I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old  -  from 1986 -
2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see
 http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html

Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much
better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new
ones made by you and Sandy?  ;-)   The old ones anyhow sound still nice..

Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes  increased
significantly in the last ten-twenty years?

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-07 Thread Edward Martin
Arto,

Just because the lutes are old does not mean they are not good.  I have an 
old 10 course lute by James Mackie, 1980, and it is very nice.  I also have 
a 13 course Burkholtzer by Richard Berg, 1984, and it is one of the finest 
sounding baroque lutes imaginable.

Are old violins not as good as new ones?

ed





At 12:37 AM 12/8/2007 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear lutenists,

I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old  -  from 1986 -
2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see
   http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html

Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much
better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new
ones made by you and Sandy?  ;-)   The old ones anyhow sound still nice..

Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes  increased
significantly in the last ten-twenty years?

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


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12/6/2007 11:15 PM



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202





[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...

2007-12-07 Thread Anthony Hind

Arto
	If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old  
wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard  
instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few  
hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a  
problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think.


Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from  
1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a  
little earleir than that?)
Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I  
mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am  
told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two  
lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same  
atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute  
makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like  
your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change?

Anthony

Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit :


Dear Arto

I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young  
ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your  
older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price  
when still older! ;-)


David


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes...



Dear lutenists,

I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old  -  from  
1986 -

2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see
 http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html

Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much
better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new
ones made by you and Sandy?  ;-)   The old ones anyhow sound still  
nice..


Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes  increased
significantly in the last ten-twenty years?

All the best,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html