[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Anthony Hind wrote: Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit : Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight instruments.
[LUTE] Re: old lutes
Exactly what is soundboard re-tensioning? Martin On 8/12/07 08:01, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just retension the soundboard, and at the same time say which notes you would like to better, and a skilled luthier can do this, and it will sound better than a new one. I have a theorbo from 1983 from Klaus that has been retensioned twice and the sound is the most interesting. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] [Re: Old lutes...]
My 10 courses was built by Ray Nurse nearly 30 years ago, back in 1979. And my baroque 13 courses, recently acquired, was made by Michael Lowe in 1985. Both are very light, and of course have a beautiful sound. Old can mean good. Saludos from Barcelona, Manolo Laguillo Nigel Solomon wrote: Anthony Hind wrote: Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit : Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight instruments. --
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Le 8 déc. 07 à 10:20, Nigel Solomon a écrit : Anthony Hind wrote: Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound- boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut- off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Nigel Solomon wrote: If anything lutes in the early 80s were lighter than today's lutes, the fashion nowadays (perhaps for sustain) is to build them slightly heavier than 20 years ago. Builders at that time were, to a certain extent, in reaction to the very heavy guitar-like instruments of the 60s and 70s and therefore made feather-weight instruments. Nigel The question is perhaps which ones are closest to the historical models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are lutemakers responding to demands from lutists worried about problems of modern concert hall acoustics and need for greater projection, or is this a result of better understanding of the original models, or perhaps a little of both? Regards Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Anthony, --- Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is perhaps which ones are closest to the historical models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are lutemakers responding to demands from lutists worried about problems of modern concert hall acoustics and need for greater projection, or is this a result of better understanding of the original models, or perhaps a little of both? Regards Anthony Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on region, taste, musical style, etc.? I would suspect there would be a lot of variation in minor details of lute construction the non-standardized past. Chris Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Good point, and it would depend on the period of course. Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 15:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Anthony, --- Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is perhaps which ones are closest to the historical models, those of the 80s, or those of today? Are lutemakers responding to demands from lutists worried about problems of modern concert hall acoustics and need for greater projection, or is this a result of better understanding of the original models, or perhaps a little of both? Regards Anthony Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on region, taste, musical style, etc.? I would suspect there would be a lot of variation in minor details of lute construction the non-standardized past. Chris __ __ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/ newsearch/category.php?category=shopping To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Some historic builders had their own problems- if I remember my secondary sources correctly, the Thirty Years War wiped out the lute building center of Füssen and all lute building traditions associated with it; consequently some of the German 18th century lute building standards were just not up to par (inauthentically weighted/shaped) for some time, hence E.G. Baron preferring certain foreign made instruments. Perhaps a less foggy mind could weigh in and help me out here. Dan Good point, and it would depend on the period of course. Anthony Or could it be that the old makers themselves each had a spot on the heavy/light continuum depending on region, taste, musical style, etc.? I would suspect there would be a lot of variation in minor details of lute construction the non-standardized past. Chris -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Arto, Just because the lutes are old does not mean they are not good. I have an old 10 course lute by James Mackie, 1980, and it is very nice. I also have a 13 course Burkholtzer by Richard Berg, 1984, and it is one of the finest sounding baroque lutes imaginable. Are old violins not as good as new ones? ed At 12:37 AM 12/8/2007 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 12/6/2007 11:15 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Old lutes...
Arto If the Rauwolf is a key to the question, David is right, and old wood seems to go on improving. I was told that flat soundboard instruments can suddenly die, but the Rauwolf's soundboard is a few hundred years old. They can also be resound-boarded if there is a problem, of course, but it is not that cheap, I think. Then of course, there is the question of technology. Were lutes from 1986 much heavier than today? (wasn't the technological cut-off a little earleir than that?) Have you compared two instruments by the same maker side by side ( I mean one from 1986 and one from 2000, for example). The problem, I am told, is that there could sometimes be a big difference between two lutes with even one year or less difference coming from the same atellier. Apparently lutes are never identical, although some lute makers are more consistent than others. Neverteheless, if you like your lute, as much or more, than one that is more recent, why change? Anthony Le 8 déc. 07 à 00:53, LGS-Europe a écrit : Dear Arto I find my older lutes still improving, like good wines. The young ones still have much to learn and need to grow. So don't sell your older Barbers yet, if only because they might fetch a higher price when still older! ;-) David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Old lutes... Dear lutenists, I just found out that all my lutes seem to be quite old - from 1986 - 2003. The earlier ones were mainly made by S. Barber, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/mylutes.html Should I think the knowledge and skill of making lutes today is much better? Especially Stephen, should I sell your old lutes and buy new ones made by you and Sandy? ;-) The old ones anyhow sound still nice.. Bur severely, has the knowledge and skill of making lutes increased significantly in the last ten-twenty years? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html