Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
The Yale Juach has an interesting feature. A metal pin is embedded through the back panel of the first pegbox. There is a photo of this on my site under Museum Photos. What you can't see from the photo, is on the back side of the pegbox, this pin is looped, in order to accommodate a strap with either a hook, or string of some kind. Another consideration baroque lute ribs where often made of a hardwood, and th bodies were larger than ren lutes, this helps to off set the weight of the pegbox. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute list" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:44 AM Subject: Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute > > Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one at the base and one > >on the back close to the neck.I've tried this method and have > >not been happy with the results - has anybosy else? > > Yes. Horribly unstable, but good for a 'spin' a la ZZ Top. :-) > -- > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
>--- Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Yes. Horribly unstable, but good for a 'spin' a la >> ZZ Top. :-) > >video, please ... Wait. I have to grow this beard a bit more. :-) -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
--- Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. Horribly unstable, but good for a 'spin' a la > ZZ Top. :-) video, please ... "and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly..." - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), "Historias de la Conquista del Mayab" by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
> Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one at the base and one >on the back close to the neck.I've tried this method and have >not been happy with the results - has anybosy else? Yes. Horribly unstable, but good for a 'spin' a la ZZ Top. :-) -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
On second (or is it third?) thought, the sound board is hold the tension of the strings which is much more than the weight of the oud. I think it could take it. (The roses may be a different issue). > boo ... hisss ... > > the soundboard is much too fragile and it would damage > the roses. > > - bill > > --- Doctor Oakroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for >> ouds)? You could run the >> thong in one of the side holes and out the other. >> Avoids interference with >> the strings and the oud couldn't slip out of the >> harness. >> >> > because the group in which i play tends to walk >> around >> > while performing, i tried putting a very simple >> > harness on my oud made from leather thong boot >> laces. >> > i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when >> i >> > drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older >> then >> > .. >> > >> >> >> -- >> http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on >> homemade GIT-tars. >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > -- http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars.
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
Oh, didn't think about that. The sound board on my oud could take it just fine, and it doesn't have any roses. (It's a really cheap oud - got it in a pawn shop for $40). Might depend on the weight of the instrument too - mine is really light, but an Egyptian one might be too heavy for that. > boo ... hisss ... > > the soundboard is much too fragile and it would damage > the roses. > > - bill > > --- Doctor Oakroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for >> ouds)? You could run the >> thong in one of the side holes and out the other. >> Avoids interference with >> the strings and the oud couldn't slip out of the >> harness. >> >> > because the group in which i play tends to walk >> around >> > while performing, i tried putting a very simple >> > harness on my oud made from leather thong boot >> laces. >> > i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when >> i >> > drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older >> then >> > .. >> > >> >> >> -- >> http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on >> homemade GIT-tars. >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > -- http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars.
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
boo ... hisss ... the soundboard is much too fragile and it would damage the roses. - bill --- Doctor Oakroot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for > ouds)? You could run the > thong in one of the side holes and out the other. > Avoids interference with > the strings and the oud couldn't slip out of the > harness. > > > because the group in which i play tends to walk > around > > while performing, i tried putting a very simple > > harness on my oud made from leather thong boot > laces. > > i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when > i > > drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older > then > > .. > > > > > -- > http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on > homemade GIT-tars. > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for ouds)? You could run the thong in one of the side holes and out the other. Avoids interference with the strings and the oud couldn't slip out of the harness. > because the group in which i play tends to walk around > while performing, i tried putting a very simple > harness on my oud made from leather thong boot laces. > i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when i > drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older then > .. > -- http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
because the group in which i play tends to walk around while performing, i tried putting a very simple harness on my oud made from leather thong boot laces. i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when i drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older then .. i passed one leather thong down across the face by the bridge, under the strings, around the girth and attached another thong at the front which went off at a right angle - past where a button would be if i could bring myself to drill a hole in my lovely oud - around the butt end of bowl to join the first thong at the back. i tied this off at the top near the uppermost part of the face, ran it around my neck and joined it to the peg-box, under the strings, behind the nut. it was simple, unobtrusive and (i thought) safe ... till the oud slipped out of the harness and bounced off the pavement. luckily, there was no damage done but even as i'm writing this, my toes are curling. the problem was solved by switching to a charango with wooden pegs and by buying a smaller "kids" oud which is lighter and much easier to handle. (still wincing) - bill --- Christopher Schaub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder about the materials used in 16-18th cent. > clothing, especially pants > and shirts. I know that wearing leather pants would > make holding the lute much > easier while sitting. It would be stylish at a > minimum. > > --- Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Before inventing new ways of holding an > instrument, it's useful to look at > > what early players actually did. > > > > For the lute the following come to mind: > > > > - Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie > theorboes, archlutes, late > > german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of > a ribbon/strap running from > > the base to an attachment point on the rear of the > peghead eg from Castaldi > > (1622) right up to Scheidler(c1800). Most extant > early instruments of this > > type also have attachment points (buttons/slotted > fittings). > > > > - Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one > at the base and one on the > > back close to the neck. It has been suggested > (Spence) that a chord was > > passed between the two and looped around a coat > button (early coats were much > > heavier/stiffer than modern). I seen gut strings > fastened on a few 18thC > > lutes but, of course, these cld be later > additions. To be frank, I've tried > > this method and have not been happy with the > results - has anybosy else? > > > > - rest the lute against a table ( early sources > and some iconography) - this > > also assists the resonance of the instrument > (rather like Aguado's > > 'tripodion'). > > > > Finally, it seems to me that most (not all) > depictions of lute players show > > the instrument being held fairly high ie against > the lower chest rather than > > the stomach (rather akin to the flamenco guitarist > position compared to that > > of a modern 'classical' guitarist) with the body > resting on the left thigh > > rather than in the lap. A holding arrangement > should allow for this position > > and posture. > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
Moose leather pants were a part of cavalry uniform until the Crimean war. No lutenistic use, I suspect. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv > I wonder about the materials used in 16-18th cent. clothing, especially pants > and shirts. I know that wearing leather pants would make holding the lute much > easier while sitting. It would be stylish at a minimum. > > --- Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Before inventing new ways of holding an instrument, it's useful to look at >> what early players actually did. >> >> For the lute the following come to mind: >> >> - Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie theorboes, archlutes, late >> german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of a ribbon/strap running from >> the base to an attachment point on the rear of the peghead eg from Castaldi >> (1622) right up to Scheidler(c1800). Most extant early instruments of this >> type also have attachment points (buttons/slotted fittings). >> >> - Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one at the base and one on the >> back close to the neck. It has been suggested (Spence) that a chord was >> passed between the two and looped around a coat button (early coats were much >> heavier/stiffer than modern). I seen gut strings fastened on a few 18thC >> lutes but, of course, these cld be later additions. To be frank, I've tried >> this method and have not been happy with the results - has anybosy else? >> >> - rest the lute against a table ( early sources and some iconography) - this >> also assists the resonance of the instrument (rather like Aguado's >> 'tripodion'). >> >> Finally, it seems to me that most (not all) depictions of lute players show >> the instrument being held fairly high ie against the lower chest rather than >> the stomach (rather akin to the flamenco guitarist position compared to that >> of a modern 'classical' guitarist) with the body resting on the left thigh >> rather than in the lap. A holding arrangement should allow for this position >> and posture. >> >> >> >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >
Re: How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
I wonder about the materials used in 16-18th cent. clothing, especially pants and shirts. I know that wearing leather pants would make holding the lute much easier while sitting. It would be stylish at a minimum. --- Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Before inventing new ways of holding an instrument, it's useful to look at > what early players actually did. > > For the lute the following come to mind: > > - Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie theorboes, archlutes, late > german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of a ribbon/strap running from > the base to an attachment point on the rear of the peghead eg from Castaldi > (1622) right up to Scheidler(c1800). Most extant early instruments of this > type also have attachment points (buttons/slotted fittings). > > - Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one at the base and one on the > back close to the neck. It has been suggested (Spence) that a chord was > passed between the two and looped around a coat button (early coats were much > heavier/stiffer than modern). I seen gut strings fastened on a few 18thC > lutes but, of course, these cld be later additions. To be frank, I've tried > this method and have not been happy with the results - has anybosy else? > > - rest the lute against a table ( early sources and some iconography) - this > also assists the resonance of the instrument (rather like Aguado's > 'tripodion'). > > Finally, it seems to me that most (not all) depictions of lute players show > the instrument being held fairly high ie against the lower chest rather than > the stomach (rather akin to the flamenco guitarist position compared to that > of a modern 'classical' guitarist) with the body resting on the left thigh > rather than in the lap. A holding arrangement should allow for this position > and posture. > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
How the 'Old Ones' held the lute
Before inventing new ways of holding an instrument, it's useful to look at what early players actually did. For the lute the following come to mind: - Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie theorboes, archlutes, late german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of a ribbon/strap running from the base to an attachment point on the rear of the peghead eg from Castaldi (1622) right up to Scheidler(c1800). Most extant early instruments of this type also have attachment points (buttons/slotted fittings). - Many later baroque lutes have two buttons: one at the base and one on the back close to the neck. It has been suggested (Spence) that a chord was passed between the two and looped around a coat button (early coats were much heavier/stiffer than modern). I seen gut strings fastened on a few 18thC lutes but, of course, these cld be later additions. To be frank, I've tried this method and have not been happy with the results - has anybosy else? - rest the lute against a table ( early sources and some iconography) - this also assists the resonance of the instrument (rather like Aguado's 'tripodion'). Finally, it seems to me that most (not all) depictions of lute players show the instrument being held fairly high ie against the lower chest rather than the stomach (rather akin to the flamenco guitarist position compared to that of a modern 'classical' guitarist) with the body resting on the left thigh rather than in the lap. A holding arrangement should allow for this position and posture. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
