Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next
I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are so upset with me. I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly can be. On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next -+-- Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes Type: defect | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 Severity: normal |Keywords: -+-- Comment(by rgheck): The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I will. And you won't get any help from me. -- Ticket URL: http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2 The LyX Project http://www.lyx.org/ LyX -- The Document Processor
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next
Dear Maynard, I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like your native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so I'm guessing that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose to use. Just in case though, here are some examples: You start off by This is ridiculous. From what I understand, you are suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not fixed this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and suggests that they are not correctly doing their job. It kind of sounds like you're saying that *they* are ridiculous. 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.' --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize that these statements are commands. These are demands. Further, using capital letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English. As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. I have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a long time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other projects, both open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same reaction as you. But usually I calm down and realize that the developers know a lot more than I do and even though some bugs look like they're simple, often they are not. Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the rest of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion? Best, Xu On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley nam...@name99.org wrote: I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are so upset with me. I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly can be. On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next -+-- Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes Type: defect | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 Severity: normal |Keywords: -+-- Comment(by rgheck): The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I will. And you won't get any help from me. -- Ticket URL: http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2 The LyX Project http://www.lyx.org/ LyX -- The Document Processor
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next
On 11/18/2011 05:53 PM, Xu Wang wrote: Dear Maynard, I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like your native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so I'm guessing that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose to use. Just in case though, here are some examples: You start off by This is ridiculous. From what I understand, you are suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not fixed this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and suggests that they are not correctly doing their job. It kind of sounds like you're saying that *they* are ridiculous. I'll add that none of us do this as our job (not that you need to be told, Xu), but are doing this in our spare time. What little of it we have. 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.' --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize that these statements are commands. These are demands. People who act as if it's their right to demand that we do *anything* clearly do not understand the development of free and open source software. Further, using capital letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English. I'll add: People have been complaining...since 2003 and it still isn't fixed. ...as if it's our duty to respond to people's complaints. Doing the job properly means ...as if anyone gets to tell us what to do. What is truly dumb... ...UH HUH... ...they are completely useless... ...because they don't work the way the reporter wants them to work. And then goes ahead to actually bind command-E to the completely useless font-emph! ...as if we're utter morons and no one ever uses font-emph. As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. I have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a long time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other projects, both open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same reaction as you. But usually I calm down and realize that the developers know a lot more than I do and even though some bugs look like they're simple, often they are not. Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the rest of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion? Couldn't have said it better myself. Richard Best, Xu On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley nam...@name99.org mailto:nam...@name99.org wrote: I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are so upset with me. I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly can be. On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next -+-- Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes Type: defect | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 Severity: normal |Keywords: -+-- Comment(by rgheck): The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I will. And you won't get any help from me. -- Ticket URL: http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2 The LyX Project http://www.lyx.org/ LyX -- The Document Processor
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next
Hi Maynard, Thanks for your reply! I'm not sure what the protocol is for responding in private or to the list. I was just curious. You are welcome to respond to my messages on the list. In fact, this time I was surprised you didn't! Thank you for clearing that up. I can definitely relate. I've had many jokes go over not so well in email and text messages. I've learned that sarcasm especially is something to avoid in textual communication. Rereading your comments trying to see the humor or sarcasm though, I still couldn't. It still seems offensive and rude to me. Either that's my inability to see it, your inability to convey it, or just lost meaning through text. Thank you very much for taking the time to clear up a misunderstanding. Many people get into disagreements and just shut the door. Communication is always good. I'm replying to the list since I assume you want others to see your explanation and I think you might have intended to send it to the list anyway. Best, Xu On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Maynard Handley nam...@name99.org wrote: Hi Xu, Thank you for your reply. I fear this may be one of those situations where words are simply mis-interpreted --- what is stated as jest is treated as insult. Both the examples you give (This is ridiculous, DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly) I meant as light-hearted statements, one programmer to another, along the lines of we all know how easy it is to just paper over a problem, we've all done it in our time. Clearly they were not understood that way. I will be careful to make my future bug reports as unambiguous as possible. As for Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Did I do the wrong thing? I simply replied to an email that arrived in my inbox. If there is some alternative way I am supposed to handle matters, please let me know. There was, for example, no personal email address that I see in the email that was sent to me. Remember --- I'm not a LyX developer or part of this culture, even though I am a programmer. I'm simply a user trying to report bugs. Maynard On Nov 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Xu Wang wrote: Dear Maynard, I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like your native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so I'm guessing that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose to use. Just in case though, here are some examples: You start off by This is ridiculous. From what I understand, you are suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not fixed this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and suggests that they are not correctly doing their job. It kind of sounds like you're saying that *they* are ridiculous. 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.' --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize that these statements are commands. These are demands. Further, using capital letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English. As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. I have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a long time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other projects, both open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same reaction as you. But usually I calm down and realize that the developers know a lot more than I do and even though some bugs look like they're simple, often they are not. Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the rest of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion? Best, Xu On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley nam...@name99.orgwrote: I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are so upset with me. I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly can be. On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to find next -+-- Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes Type: defect | Status: new Priority: normal | Milestone: Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 Severity: normal |Keywords: -+-- Comment(by rgheck): The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug report. I'm
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next"
I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are so upset with me. I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly can be. On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: > #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next" > -+-- > Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes > Type: defect | Status: new > Priority: normal | Milestone: > Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 > Severity: normal |Keywords: > -+-- > > Comment(by rgheck): > > The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug > report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I will. > > And you won't get any help from me. > > -- > Ticket URL: <http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2> > The LyX Project <http://www.lyx.org/> > LyX -- The Document Processor
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next"
Dear Maynard, I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like your native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so I'm guessing that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose to use. Just in case though, here are some examples: You start off by "This is ridiculous". From what I understand, you are suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not fixed this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and suggests that they are not correctly doing their job. It kind of sounds like you're saying that *they* are ridiculous. 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.' --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize that these statements are commands. These are demands. Further, using capital letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English. As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. I have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a long time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other projects, both open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same reaction as you. But usually I calm down and realize that the developers know a lot more than I do and even though some bugs look like they're simple, often they are not. Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the rest of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion? Best, Xu On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley <nam...@name99.org> wrote: > I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you are > so upset with me. > I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many > various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or > mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me. > > I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating > $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything, > but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want > it to be the best app it possibly can be. > > > > On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: > > > #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next" > > > -+-- > > Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes > > Type: defect | Status: new > > Priority: normal | Milestone: > > Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 > > Severity: normal |Keywords: > > > -+-- > > > > Comment(by rgheck): > > > > The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of this bug > > report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I will. > > > > And you won't get any help from me. > > > > -- > > Ticket URL: <http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2> > > The LyX Project <http://www.lyx.org/> > > LyX -- The Document Processor > >
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next"
On 11/18/2011 05:53 PM, Xu Wang wrote: > Dear Maynard, > > I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. > I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like > your native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so > I'm guessing that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose > to use. Just in case though, here are some examples: > > You start off by "This is ridiculous". From what I understand, you are > suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not > fixed this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and > suggests that they are not correctly doing their job. It kind of > sounds like you're saying that *they* are ridiculous. > I'll add that none of us do this as our job (not that you need to be told, Xu), but are doing this in our spare time. What little of it we have. > 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.' > --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize > that these statements are commands. These are demands. > People who act as if it's their right to demand that we do *anything* clearly do not understand the development of free and open source software. > Further, using capital letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English. > I'll add: People have been complaining...since 2003 and it still isn't fixed. ...as if it's our duty to respond to people's "complaints". Doing the job properly means ...as if anyone gets to tell us what to do. What is truly dumb... ...UH HUH... ...they are completely useless... ...because they don't work the way the reporter wants them to work. And then goes ahead to actually bind command-E to the completely useless "font-emph"! ...as if we're utter morons and no one ever uses font-emph. > As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. > I have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a > long time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other > projects, both open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same > reaction as you. But usually I calm down and realize that the > developers know a lot more than I do and even though some bugs look > like they're simple, often they are not. > > Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just > contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the > rest of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion? > Couldn't have said it better myself. Richard > Best, > > Xu > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley <nam...@name99.org > <mailto:nam...@name99.org>> wrote: > > I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why > you are so upset with me. > I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that > many various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my > tone was rude or mocking. I do not understand why you are angry > with me. > > I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including > donating $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special > treatment or anything, but I would like to think it indicates that > I care about this app and want it to be the best app it possibly > can be. > > > > On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote: > > > #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next" > > > > -+-- > > Reporter: name99 | Owner: lasgouttes > > Type: defect | Status: new > > Priority: normal | Milestone: > > Component: general | Version: 2.0.1 > > Severity: normal |Keywords: > > > > -+-- > > > > Comment(by rgheck): > > > > The only thing that is ridiculous is the insulting character of > this bug > > report. I'm tempted to delete it, and your account. Next time I > will. > > > > And you won't get any help from me. > > > > -- > > Ticket URL: <http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7894#comment:2> > > The LyX Project <http://www.lyx.org/> > > LyX -- The Document Processor > >
Re: #7894: Cannot use keyboard to "find next"
Hi Maynard,
Thanks for your reply! I'm not sure what the protocol is for responding in
private or to the list. I was just curious. You are welcome to respond to
my messages on the list. In fact, this time I was surprised you didn't!
Thank you for clearing that up. I can definitely relate. I've had many
jokes go over not so well in email and text messages. I've learned that
sarcasm especially is something to avoid in textual communication.
Rereading your comments trying to see the humor or sarcasm though, I still
couldn't. It still seems offensive and rude to me. Either that's my
inability to see it, your inability to convey it, or just lost meaning
through text.
Thank you very much for taking the time to clear up a misunderstanding.
Many people get into disagreements and just "shut the door". Communication
is always good.
I'm replying to the list since I assume you want others to see your
explanation and I think you might have intended to send it to the list
anyway.
Best,
Xu
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Maynard Handley <nam...@name99.org> wrote:
> Hi Xu,
>
> Thank you for your reply. I fear this may be one of those situations where
> words are simply mis-interpreted --- what is stated as jest is treated as
> insult. Both the examples you give ("This is ridiculous", "DON'T do the
> half-assed job... do the job properly") I meant as light-hearted
> statements, one programmer to another, along the lines of "we all know how
> easy it is to just paper over a problem, we've all done it in our time".
> Clearly they were not understood that way. I will be careful to make my
> future bug reports as unambiguous as possible.
>
> As for "Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list?" Did I do the
> wrong thing? I simply replied to an email that arrived in my inbox. If
> there is some alternative way I am supposed to handle matters, please let
> me know. There was, for example, no personal email address that I see in
> the email that was sent to me.
> Remember --- I'm not a LyX developer or part of this culture, even though
> I am a programmer. I'm simply a user trying to report bugs.
>
> Maynard
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Xu Wang wrote:
>
> Dear Maynard,
>
> I think Richard's reply was actually quite polite compared to yours. I'm
> not sure what it is that you don't understand. English seems like your
> native language (you probably speak it better than me lol), so I'm guessing
> that you do understand the meaning of the words you chose to use. Just in
> case though, here are some examples:
>
> You start off by "This is ridiculous". From what I understand, you are
> suggesting that it is ridiculous that the LyX developers have not fixed
> this bug. That is quite offensive. It is insensitive and suggests that they
> are not correctly doing their job. It kind of sounds like you're saying
> that *they* are ridiculous.
>
> 'DON'T do the half-assed job... do the job properly.'
> --Assuming that English is your native language, you should realize that
> these statements are commands. These are demands. Further, using capital
> letters is analogous to shouting in spoken English.
>
> As a final note, I just want to say that I can relate to you, Maynard. I
> have often been quite frustrated with bugs that stay around for a long
> time. I haven't had this happen in LyX, but in many other projects, both
> open sourced and proprietary. I've often had the same reaction as you. But
> usually I calm down and realize that the developers know a lot more than I
> do and even though some bugs look like they're simple, often they are not.
>
> Also, I'm not sure why you sent this to the list? Why didn't you just
> contact Richard privately? What is it that you want to share with the rest
> of us, exactly? Or were you just looking for a third opinion?
>
> Best,
>
> Xu
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Maynard Handley <nam...@name99.org>wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry, Mr Heck. I did not mean to offend, and I'm not sure why you
>> are so upset with me.
>> I submitted a problem. I submitted a whole lot of evidence that many
>> various people find it to be a problem. I did not think my tone was rude or
>> mocking. I do not understand why you are angry with me.
>>
>> I have supported the LyX project for quite some time, including donating
>> $1000. I don't expect that to entitle me to special treatment or anything,
>> but I would like to think it indicates that I care about this app and want
>> it to be the best app it possibly can be.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2011, at 12:19 PM, LyX Ticket Tracker wrote:
>>
>> >
