Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) -- Pol
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. Jürgen
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. Yes, this patch was already tried and discussed. The matter could perhaps be raised and resolved at the Berlin meeting and a way forward plotted, one the participants at that meeting can all support. I'll say now that I'll be happy enough with whatever that group decides. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? (They did do crazy things during the previous meetings though). The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? (They did do crazy things during the previous meetings though). The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. Yes, I suppose that must be true. None of the several people who were involved in either of the lengthy discussions of embedding, and none of the people who produced various bits of code prototyping different approaches, thought at all carefully about embedding. Obviously, there is only one right way to do it, and obviously our complete unwillingness to use our brains must be what is responsible for our failure to see that. Richard
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Pol wrote: This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) you surely dont know what this proposition will trigger now :) pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 07:54:23AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? All bets are off when it comes to what happens at meetings. The usual rules typically do not apply. It's something like the general assembly of the project with the power to change the project's constitution. If you are there, you will be heard, if not, then, perhaps, not ;-) The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of reconciliation if both off you are there... Andre'
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of reconciliation if both off you are there... So I will not make my patch work for rc2. Actually, I am tired of discussions so I will not seek for inclusion or reconciliation in the future. If Richard or anyone else would like to implement this feature, they have my blessing (and my implementation to compare with). Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Andre Poenitz wrote: On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 07:54:23AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? All bets are off when it comes to what happens at meetings. The usual rules typically do not apply. It's something like the general assembly of the project with the power to change the project's constitution. If you are there, you will be heard, if not, then, perhaps, not ;-) Surely that meeting is too late for 1.6 The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of reconciliation if both off you are there... I do wish I could make it, but Berlin is just too far from Massachusetts during the semester. That said, I don't intend to have anything more to do with embedding discussions. I've had rather enough of it. I'll leave it in the capable hands of the other developers. I only ask that whatever gets done not make spaghetti of the code. Richard
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: >>> This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design >>> issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. > I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about > embedding. > I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) -- Pol
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Pol wrote: > > I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about > > embedding. > > I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get > early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, > in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. Jürgen
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. Yes, this patch was already tried and discussed. The matter could perhaps be raised and resolved at the Berlin meeting and a way forward plotted, one the participants at that meeting can all support. I'll say now that I'll be happy enough with whatever that group decides. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Pol wrote: >> > I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about >> > embedding. >> >> I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get >> early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, >> in time) > > OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as > discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? (They did do crazy things during the previous meetings though). The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? (They did do crazy things during the previous meetings though). The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. Yes, I suppose that must be true. None of the several people who were involved in either of the lengthy discussions of embedding, and none of the people who produced various bits of code prototyping different approaches, thought at all carefully about embedding. Obviously, there is only one right way to do it, and obviously our complete unwillingness to use our brains must be what is responsible for our failure to see that. Richard
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Pol wrote: > >>> This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design > >>> issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. > > I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about > > embedding. > > > > I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early > feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in > time) you surely dont know what this proposition will trigger now :) pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 07:54:23AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pol wrote: > >> > I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about > >> > embedding. > >> > >> I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get > >> early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, > >> in time) > > > > OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as > > discussed. > > My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any > major feature to 1.6, right? All bets are off when it comes to what happens at meetings. The usual rules typically do not apply. It's something like the general assembly of the project with the power to change the project's constitution. If you are there, you will be heard, if not, then, perhaps, not ;-) > The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it > carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the > meeting. I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of reconciliation if both off you are there... Andre'
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
> I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither > Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if > exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of > reconciliation if both off you are there... So I will not make my patch work for rc2. Actually, I am tired of discussions so I will not seek for inclusion or reconciliation in the future. If Richard or anyone else would like to implement this feature, they have my blessing (and my implementation to compare with). Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Andre Poenitz wrote: On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 07:54:23AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Pol wrote: I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. I think that it is worth trying your patch, so that developers can get early feedback about such big change. (the underlying design might change, in time) OTOH I think that 1.6 is no option for the inclusion of this feature, as discussed. My understanding is that even people in Berlin can not add any any major feature to 1.6, right? All bets are off when it comes to what happens at meetings. The usual rules typically do not apply. It's something like the general assembly of the project with the power to change the project's constitution. If you are there, you will be heard, if not, then, perhaps, not ;-) Surely that meeting is too late for 1.6 The problem with embedding is that nobody else has thought about it carefully so I will be happy if it will be discussed during the meeting. I guess there won't be much embedding discussion as long as neither Richard nor you turn up. I'd also expect not much of a discussion if exactly one of you turn up *hint, hint* And there might be some kind of reconciliation if both off you are there... I do wish I could make it, but Berlin is just too far from Massachusetts during the semester. That said, I don't intend to have anything more to do with embedding discussions. I've had rather enough of it. I'll leave it in the capable hands of the other developers. I only ask that whatever gets done not make spaghetti of the code. Richard
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Richard Heck wrote: pol wrote: On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed other files. Here is the details: Any progress in this regard? This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. remembering the problems to comunicate embedding feature through mail, the meeting could be more helpful; however if i see correctly both key persons are missing... pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. remembering the problems to comunicate embedding feature through mail, the meeting could be more helpful; however if i see correctly both key persons are missing... I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Richard Heck wrote: > pol wrote: >> On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed >>> other files. Here is the details: >>> >> >> Any progress in this regard? >> >> > This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. > It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. remembering the problems to comunicate embedding feature through mail, the meeting could be more helpful; however if i see correctly both key persons are missing... pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
>> This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. >> It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. > > remembering the problems to comunicate embedding feature through mail, > the meeting could be more helpful; however if i see correctly both > key persons are missing... I can make my patch work for rc2 if people will be thinking about embedding. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed other files. Here is the details: Any progress in this regard? Thank you -- Pol Expected features: 1. Graphics, listings, bib file etc can be embedded into the .lyx file. 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. 3. User can choose not to embed any file. 4. Embedded file.lyx file is a zip file, with file.lyx, manifest.txt and embedded files. If no file is embedded, file.lyx is in plain text format. (That is to say, version control can be used if a user disables embedding.) 5. Embedded files can be 'EMBEDDED', 'EXTERNAL', or 'AUTO'. In the AUTO mode, external files will be used if available; otherwise the embedded version will be used. In this way, users can work as usual by modifying external listings, graphics, and do not have to worry about embedding.
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
pol wrote: On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed other files. Here is the details: Any progress in this regard? This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed > other files. Here is the details: Any progress in this regard? Thank you -- Pol > Expected features: 1. Graphics, listings, bib file etc can be embedded into the .lyx file. 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. 3. User can choose not to embed any file. 4. Embedded file.lyx file is a zip file, with file.lyx, manifest.txt and embedded files. If no file is embedded, file.lyx is in plain text format. (That is to say, version control can be used if a user disables embedding.) 5. Embedded files can be 'EMBEDDED', 'EXTERNAL', or 'AUTO'. In the AUTO mode, external files will be used if available; otherwise the embedded version will be used. In this way, users can work as usual by modifying external listings, graphics, and do not have to worry about embedding.
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
pol wrote: On 2007-07-25, Bo Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Attached please find a pre-pre-PATCH that allows a .lyx file to embed other files. Here is the details: Any progress in this regard? This was in trunk but was removed due to disagreement about design issues. It's possible we'll return to it for 1.7. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Enrico Forestieri [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:11:26PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. Please, don't mention Word, as this has a strange effect on me, in that I automatically hate whatever is associated with it... A OSX-like bundle (aka a directory) would be easier to deal with in some respects. JMarc
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Enrico Forestieri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:11:26PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > >> > I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example >> > any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. >> >> A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier >> manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions >> of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and >> ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. > > I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to > overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible > to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control > system. Please, don't mention Word, as this has a strange effect on me, > in that I automatically hate whatever is associated with it... A OSX-like bundle (aka a directory) would be easier to deal with in some respects. JMarc
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: 2. This does not conflict with our XML transition because no lyx2lyx is needed. Actually, the use of manifest (not the ODF one though) and zip format makes .lyx closer to ODF. It is a great idea. Have you considered going even closer to an odt file with the mimetype, the metadata xml file, etc ? Cheers, Charles
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. would it be possible to include generated .tex file ? in that case it would be also good format for archiving. pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
It is a great idea. Have you considered going even closer to an odt file with the mimetype, the metadata xml file, etc ? I will try to do that, but I am not sure about the compatibility. You see, embedded files in ODF are embedded, but my design allows the use of external files automatically if the embedding status is AUTO. Therefore, I will have to keep external name, inzip (embedded) name, and embedding status. Anyway, move closer to ODF is the goal. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 7/26/07, Pavel Sanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. would it be possible to include generated .tex file ? in that case it would be also good format for archiving. pavel Latex output can be different (latex/pdflatex) and should be considered as duplicated information. I will not embed .tex file automatically, but you can embed it manually. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: > 2. This does not conflict with our XML transition because no lyx2lyx > is needed. Actually, the use of manifest (not the ODF one though) and > zip format makes .lyx closer to ODF. > It is a great idea. Have you considered going even closer to an odt file with the mimetype, the metadata xml file, etc ? Cheers, Charles
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
> 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and > other files can be embedded manually. would it be possible to include generated .tex file ? in that case it would be also good format for archiving. pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
It is a great idea. Have you considered going even closer to an odt file with the mimetype, the metadata xml file, etc ? I will try to do that, but I am not sure about the compatibility. You see, embedded files in ODF are embedded, but my design allows the use of external files automatically if the embedding status is AUTO. Therefore, I will have to keep external name, inzip (embedded) name, and embedding status. Anyway, move closer to ODF is the goal. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 7/26/07, Pavel Sanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and > other files can be embedded manually. would it be possible to include generated .tex file ? in that case it would be also good format for archiving. pavel Latex output can be different (latex/pdflatex) and should be considered as duplicated information. I will not embed .tex file automatically, but you can embed it manually. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 22:11:26 Bo Peng wrote: A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? Bo -- José Abílio
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
José Matos wrote: On Wednesday 25 July 2007 22:11:26 Bo Peng wrote: A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? Both OpenDocument and Office Open XML use ZIP. Joost
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to bundle the files without zipping them? My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference Disable embedding by default. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? Both OpenDocument and Office Open XML use ZIP. Yeap, I am trying to make .lyx as close to ODF (or OpenDocument) as possible so that our ODF converter can be easier to implement. Also, because lyx already require zlib, it is easy for me to plagiarize minizip as odf::zip and odf::unzip. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:11:26PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. Please, don't mention Word, as this has a strange effect on me, in that I automatically hate whatever is associated with it... -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to bundle the files without zipping them? That would be Enrico's direct embedding method, which is more difficult to implement and far from the spirit of ODF. My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference Disable embedding by default. I think it is reasonable to have this feature disabled by default, because we do not want to keep several copies of the figures when we are working on a document. I guess, in the end, we can advertise this as a 'packing' feature. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 05:20:12PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. This patch does not touch file.lyx itself at all (no lyx2lyx) and embedding can be disabled at will. That is to say, when you are working on a file, with supporting files spreading around, you can disable embedding and use your text editor to modify file.lyx, and use your version control system. Then, when it is time to 'distribute' your lyx file, you simply enable embedding and the supporting files will be embedded with file.lyx. The GUI will also allow the 'extraction' of embedded files and 'de-embedding' file.lyx, should you later want to work on the embedded files. Because external files like figures tend to change, I feel that this solution is better than the 'real embedding' solution used by other applications (need to re-insert files if a figure changes, a big headache), and better than the 'inline' embedding solution you proposed (file.lyx does not have to change if you change a figure). If I understand correctly what you are saying, this would be as having another save format by which all included files are packed together. If this is the case, I like it, indeed. Any other concern? No, if things stand the way I understood them. -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 7/25/07, Pavel Sanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. does embedding include master/child docs ? The idea of master/child document is that you can edit each child document separately because the master file can be too big to handle. This patch does *not* include child documents in the master document, but master/child documents should work together just fine and child documents can embed their own figures. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and other files can be embedded manually. does embedding include master/child docs ? pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 02:41:34PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: Please think about this feature carefully. If you like it, I will exam the implementation more carefully. I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to bundle the files without zipping them? That would be Enrico's direct embedding method, which is more difficult to implement and far from the spirit of ODF. My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference Disable embedding by default. I think it is reasonable to have this feature disabled by default, because we do not want to keep several copies of the figures when we are working on a document. I guess, in the end, we can advertise this as a 'packing' feature. Yes, I thought Enrico's way of describing it---as another format for saving documents---was a good one. And I should say more explicitly that I also agree with him that this will be very useful for people who share documents---or even for some people who use them on more than one machine. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. This patch does not touch file.lyx itself at all (no lyx2lyx) and embedding can be disabled at will. That is to say, when you are working on a file, with supporting files spreading around, you can disable embedding and use your text editor to modify file.lyx, and use your version control system. Then, when it is time to 'distribute' your lyx file, you simply enable embedding and the supporting files will be embedded with file.lyx. The GUI will also allow the 'extraction' of embedded files and 'de-embedding' file.lyx, should you later want to work on the embedded files. Because external files like figures tend to change, I feel that this solution is better than the 'real embedding' solution used by other applications (need to re-insert files if a figure changes, a big headache), and better than the 'inline' embedding solution you proposed (file.lyx does not have to change if you change a figure). Any other concern? Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 22:11:26 Bo Peng wrote: > A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier > manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions > of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and > ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? > Bo -- José Abílio
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
José Matos wrote: On Wednesday 25 July 2007 22:11:26 Bo Peng wrote: A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? Both OpenDocument and Office Open XML use ZIP. Joost
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to "bundle" the files without zipping them? My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference "Disable embedding by default". Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
> BTW, just curious, why not a tar.gz approach? Both OpenDocument and Office Open XML use ZIP. Yeap, I am trying to make .lyx as close to ODF (or OpenDocument) as possible so that our ODF converter can be easier to implement. Also, because lyx already require zlib, it is easy for me to plagiarize minizip as odf::zip and odf::unzip. Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:11:26PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > > I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example > > any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. > > A zip file allows much more complicated structure and easier > manipulation than the 'inline' embedding. Actually, earlier versions > of word documents used it, but all later versions of word and > ooffice/odf, use a zip/directory/file-filesystem approach. I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. Please, don't mention Word, as this has a strange effect on me, in that I automatically hate whatever is associated with it... -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
> I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to "bundle" the files without zipping them? That would be Enrico's direct embedding method, which is more difficult to implement and far from the spirit of ODF. My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference "Disable embedding by default". I think it is reasonable to have this feature disabled by default, because we do not want to keep several copies of the figures when we are working on a document. I guess, in the end, we can advertise this as a 'packing' feature. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 05:20:12PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > > I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to > > overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible > > to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control > > system. > > I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. > > This patch does not touch file.lyx itself at all (no lyx2lyx) and > embedding can be disabled at will. That is to say, when you are > working on a file, with supporting files spreading around, you can > disable embedding and use your text editor to modify file.lyx, and use > your version control system. Then, when it is time to 'distribute' > your lyx file, you simply enable embedding and the supporting files > will be embedded with file.lyx. The GUI will also allow the > 'extraction' of embedded files and 'de-embedding' file.lyx, should you > later want to work on the embedded files. > > Because external files like figures tend to change, I feel that this > solution is better than the 'real embedding' solution used by other > applications (need to re-insert files if a figure changes, a big > headache), and better than the 'inline' embedding solution you > proposed (file.lyx does not have to change if you change a figure). If I understand correctly what you are saying, this would be as having another save format by which all included files are packed together. If this is the case, I like it, indeed. > Any other concern? No, if things stand the way I understood them. -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On 7/25/07, Pavel Sanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and > other files can be embedded manually. does embedding include master/child docs ? The idea of master/child document is that you can edit each child document separately because the master file can be too big to handle. This patch does *not* include child documents in the master document, but master/child documents should work together just fine and child documents can embed their own figures. Cheers, Bo
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
> 2. Embedding of certain files are automatic (graphics, bib etc), and > other files can be embedded manually. does embedding include master/child docs ? pavel
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 02:41:34PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > Please think about this feature carefully. If you like it, I will exam > the implementation more carefully. I don't like this idea of a zip-lyx. There are other ways. For example any external file could be base64 encoded and inlined in the lyx file. -- Enrico
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
Bo Peng wrote: > I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. Would an uncompressed zip file be more usable with vc? Is there some other way to "bundle" the files without zipping them? That would be Enrico's direct embedding method, which is more difficult to implement and far from the spirit of ODF. My only other request would be that embedding be disabled by default. It's undoubtedly useful for people who are exchanging files with co-workers, and they could enable it. But it'd be a pain for me to have to disable it every time. At the very least, there ought to be a preference "Disable embedding by default". I think it is reasonable to have this feature disabled by default, because we do not want to keep several copies of the figures when we are working on a document. I guess, in the end, we can advertise this as a 'packing' feature. Yes, I thought Enrico's way of describing it---as another format for saving documents---was a good one. And I should say more explicitly that I also agree with him that this will be very useful for people who share documents---or even for some people who use them on more than one machine. rh
Re: [Request for Review] Embedding files to .lyx file.
I am worried that simple manipulations of a lyx file (in order to overcome deficiencies in the GUI) become more complicated/impossible to perform. Then, I wonder how a zip file fits a version control system. I have heard you, and I have addressed this problem in my implementation. This patch does not touch file.lyx itself at all (no lyx2lyx) and embedding can be disabled at will. That is to say, when you are working on a file, with supporting files spreading around, you can disable embedding and use your text editor to modify file.lyx, and use your version control system. Then, when it is time to 'distribute' your lyx file, you simply enable embedding and the supporting files will be embedded with file.lyx. The GUI will also allow the 'extraction' of embedded files and 'de-embedding' file.lyx, should you later want to work on the embedded files. Because external files like figures tend to change, I feel that this solution is better than the 'real embedding' solution used by other applications (need to re-insert files if a figure changes, a big headache), and better than the 'inline' embedding solution you proposed (file.lyx does not have to change if you change a figure). Any other concern? Bo
