Re: Changes in LyX
Juergen Vigna wrote: > How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource > developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the > right term I heard on the net was "Lamers" isn't it? There are people > who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm > just to happy with my life to let me touch by such "overbearingness"! > > Have a nice day, > > Jürgen Good thing it's not Friday :) Garst
Re: Changes in LyX
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:39:49PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > No, I did not. My wife installed LyX from SuSE 7.0 and it sent > faxes. How can LyX be installed from SuSE 7.2 or RH 7.1, through a > normal RPM installation. You can find source and binary RPMs compiled for 7.1 at: http://www.cs.wm.edu/~zvezdan/programs/RPMS/LyX/ I'm not sure whether they will help you with fax sending though :-) Did you try compiling the source RPMs for your fax programs. If the KDE libraries are issue, do you have kde1-compat RPMs installed in your distribution by default. YOu might want to grab them from your CD or KDE ftp site. I'm not implying that you didn't try all this already, just throwing ideas randomly. If Jürgen was a little harsh, that's because you started a little harsh. You can be angry that you favourite feature is missing from you favourite program, but it's a program that you got for free and whatever its developers decide to do with -- it will be done. They won't lose any money, believe me, because of that "bad business decision". Finally, you can't coax people to do something for you by yelling at them or being arrogant. It's so typical of people from our region. It was almost as listening to myself. :-) Best regards, -- Zvezdan Petkovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.cs.wm.edu/~zvezdan/
Re: Changes in LyX
> On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > > No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine > > > > > > And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. Pretty easy: LyX is _not_ a fax program. Adding special fax support was a Good Thing at the time when LyX's export facilities were limited and fax support was needed. LyX has a much better and more general export mechanism nowadays, so the special fax code is not needed anymore. This allows using a combination of "small" tools (LyX for writing, a fax program for sending faxes) instead of a monolithic program that tries to be everything. That's the pretty much the "Unix spirit". > > We should learn from competition if we are not sure. We are doing exactly that... > > Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was > > 5 years ago ... especially with respect to code bloat. Andre' -- André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Changes in LyX
Zvezdan Petkovic writes: > You can find source and binary RPMs compiled for 7.1 at: > > http://www.cs.wm.edu/~zvezdan/programs/RPMS/LyX/ > > I'm not sure whether they will help you with fax sending though :-) > > Did you try compiling the source RPMs for your fax programs. If the KDE > libraries are issue, do you have kde1-compat RPMs installed in your > distribution by default. YOu might want to grab them from your CD or KDE > ftp site. > > I'm not implying that you didn't try all this already, just throwing > ideas randomly. > > If Jürgen was a little harsh, that's because you started a little harsh. > You can be angry that you favourite feature is missing from you > favourite program, but it's a program that you got for free and whatever > its developers decide to do with -- it will be done. They won't lose any > money, believe me, because of that "bad business decision". > > Finally, you can't coax people to do something for you by yelling at > them or being arrogant. It's so typical of people from our region. It > was almost as listening to myself. :-) > > Best regards, > -- > Zvezdan Petkovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://www.cs.wm.edu/~zvezdan/ > I fully agree with you !! Yes, I was harsh. No, you will not loose money, but making such changes will not bring you users and I wish LyX to be THE most popular word (soory document) processor. Where are you from ?? -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ <___/ www.mysql.com
Re: Changes in LyX
Andre Poenitz writes: > > Pretty easy: LyX is _not_ a fax program. Adding special fax support was a > Good Thing at the time when LyX's export facilities were limited and fax > support was needed. > > LyX has a much better and more general export mechanism nowadays, so the > special fax code is not needed anymore. This allows using a combination of > "small" tools (LyX for writing, a fax program for sending faxes) instead of > a monolithic program that tries to be everything. That's the pretty much > the "Unix spirit". > > > > We should learn from competition if we are not sure. > > We are doing exactly that... > > > > Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was > > > 5 years ago > > ... especially with respect to code bloat. > > Andre' > > > -- > André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 'Unix spirit'... Yes it is. But if we were to follow it I would have to erase a program I am writting this e-mail with. Or doing 90 % of the stuff, for that matter. 'Spirit of this and that' is less important then ease of upgrade, backward compatibility etc ... -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus <___/ www.mysql.com
Re: Changes in LyX
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ?? > > Try it ! No. Simply because I don't have 7.2. Why does the 7.1 package not install? Andre' -- André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Changes in LyX
Andre Poenitz writes: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ?? > > > > Try it ! > > No. Simply because I don't have 7.2. > > Why does the 7.1 package not install? > > Andre' > > -- > André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Differences in KDE libs versions ... -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus <___/ www.mysql.com
Re: Changes in LyX
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:33:50PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > Andre Poenitz writes: > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > > > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ?? > > > > > > Try it ! > > > > No. Simply because I don't have 7.2. > > > > Why does the 7.1 package not install? > > > > Andre' > > Differences in KDE libs versions ... Okay, then he should make himself a custom RPM by doing an ``rpm --rebuild ksendfax_blah.src.rpm'' and then install the resulting RPM. -- Kayvan A. Sylvan | Proud husband of | Father to my kids: Sylvan Associates, Inc. | Laura Isabella Sylvan | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89) http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | "crown of her husband" | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)
RE: Changes in LyX
On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ... No you never said I understood it like that. > Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE > 7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have > all 7 CD's here with me. Well we cannot provide all external software which is needed for LyX and anyway "we" all blame "Him" (he knows) to remove this part of code, but anyway we agreed with it and so be it. > The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I > phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. Well I surely have RH 7.1 installed and there surely is a package for RH 7.1 which will install. > No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from > source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM > installation of what she needs. Then she has the wrong system administrator ;) > No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine > Well the tone makes the mail, you can always "ask", but your mail was not a question is was an accusation with the implication that you would make it a lot better. > And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. > > We should learn from competition if we are not sure. > > Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was > 5 years ago Anyway as it seems your "tone" got better with this mail I will try to help solve your problem (hopefully ;) Get yourself: ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm And try to install this. Greets, Jürgen -- -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Italienallee 13/N Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253 I-39100 Bozen Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.
RE: Changes in LyX
Juergen Vigna writes: > > On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > > > Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ... > > No you never said I understood it like that. > God forbid me !! > > Then she has the wrong system administrator ;) > Yes, the one too busy to fix his machine, much less hers ;o) > > Anyway as it seems your "tone" got better with this mail I will try to help > solve your problem (hopefully ;) > > Get yourself: > > ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm > > And try to install this. > > Greets, > > Jürgen > > -- > -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ > Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Italienallee 13/N Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253 > I-39100 Bozen Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug > -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ > > Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire. > > I did solve the problem partially. After spending 1 hour, I found ksendfax that works on my wife's machine. But it does not work properly. Some things work, some not. But this is not mailing list for that product, so ... I will have to spend one more hour to make it work eventually, if ever. But it will never be as good as old feature that you have killed for the reasons known only to you. I want LyX to reigh, and it will not until lawyers and ice-cream makers will be able to upgrade effortlessly. That is all I wanted to say. -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus <___/ www.mysql.com
RE: Changes in LyX
Dear Sinisa! I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this "BAD" people know what you think! On 29-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote: > >> The internal fax-facility has been removed from LyX so you need an >> external program (Frontend) to the faxpackage you've installed to be >> able to fax your stuff with some confort. I use KSendFax for this as >> it uses the same addressbook format as the old implementation in LyX >> (which was both programmed by myself) if you don't have KDE installed >> then you can also try to compile/install xsendfax a Fax-Frontend identicall >> to the one included in LyX with the xforms library. Search it on ftp.sad.it. >> >> If you have such a "Frontend" the you can go into Edit->Preferences->Converters >> and input a converter for the "Fax-Converter". >> >> From: Postscript >> To: Fax >> Converter: ksendfax $$i >> >> Hope this helps, >> >>Jürgen > > > No, it does not. > > SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*. > > Why have you done the above ?? > > It worked perfectly !! > > Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build, > install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours. I work 12 hours > per day already. Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it! > This way you will loose all users, one by one. You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package! > I recommended LyX for invoicing and faxing to several folks. They all > upgraded ( for their own reasons) and ask me what to do. They are > lawyers etc, and they can't build, tweak etc. I told them : Switch to > StarOffice. I recommend OpenOffice it is REALLY feature complete VERY fast, has a wonderful print engine, just it segfaults from time to time and to input some text you need quite some time as the screen/redraw seems a bit slow. > So, what should we do ?? You gave yourself an answer above didn't you! > If we in MySQL would do such nonsense as you do with LyX, we would be > without users. > > What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there > new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill > old features. None. Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't really call this "good behavior", but We probably see that from a different perspective that you "REALLY BRAVE" mysql developers! > You, LyX developers, are all very irresponsible people, and if you > continue that way, LyX will have not much of the future, although it > is a best word processor around. It's no word processor it's a "document" processor, but thanks for the compliment! > If you make a single change in some other feature, like HTML > generation, that would require another 3 hours of my work, I will > erase LyX. > > So, what should I do ?? You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you! How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the right term I heard on the net was "Lamers" isn't it? There are people who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm just to happy with my life to let me touch by such "overbearingness"! Have a nice day, Jürgen -- -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Italienallee 13/N Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253 I-39100 Bozen Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ Great acts are made up of small deeds. -- Lao Tsu
Re: Changes in LyX
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote: > > SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*. > > > > Why have you done the above ?? > > > > It worked perfectly !! > > > > Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build, > > install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours. SuSE 7.1 rpms are on http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install. Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine. > > I work 12 hours per day already. And that means what? Andre' -- André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Changes in LyX
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:05:15AM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote: > > It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install. > Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine. > > > > I work 12 hours per day already. > > And that means what? It means he's a slacker! I work about 14 hours a day and I spend an hour or two on top of that doing other non-work work. ;-) Sleep, what is that? Sleep is for WIMPS and LOSERS! -- Kayvan A. Sylvan | Proud husband of | Father to my kids: Sylvan Associates, Inc. | Laura Isabella Sylvan | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89) http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | "crown of her husband" | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)
RE: Changes in LyX
Juergen Vigna writes: > Dear Sinisa! > > I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this "BAD" people > know what you think! > Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ... > > Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install > them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it! > Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE 7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have all 7 CD's here with me. > You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not > dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package! > The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. There are ksendfax RPM's on ksendfax SourceForge page, but none will install. > > > So, what should we do ?? > > > You gave yourself an answer above didn't you! > No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM installation of what she needs. > > > > > What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there > > new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill > > old features. None. > > > Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems > it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range > values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't > really call this "good behavior", but We probably see that from a different > perspective that you "REALLY BRAVE" mysql developers! > Why are you changing the issue ?? I was speaking about removing features , not about speed. I did not say LyX is slower or faster. I said that what you did 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there better ways to do same thing today. Yes, many, but none of them killed the old feature. Regarding speed, 4.0 will be soon out and you will definitely see speed improvements. If you have any questions on improving join speeds, please feel free to write to me directly. I use LyX for all documentation and it is fair to give back something in return ... Anyway, it is possible your join speeds deteriorated due to larger tables, not because of MySQL. And you probably did not run ANALYZE TABLE periodically to help MySQL optimizer do a better job. > You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you! > No, I did not. My wife installed LyX from SuSE 7.0 and it sent faxes. How can LyX be installed from SuSE 7.2 or RH 7.1, through a normal RPM installation. > How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource > developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the > right term I heard on the net was "Lamers" isn't it? There are people > who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm > just to happy with my life to let me touch by such "overbearingness"! > > Have a nice day, > > Jürgen > > -- > -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ > Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Italienallee 13/N Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253 > I-39100 Bozen Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug > -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._ > > Great acts are made up of small deeds. > -- Lao Tsu > > No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. We should learn from competition if we are not sure. Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was 5 years ago -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus <___/ www.mysql.com
Re: Changes in LyX
Andre Poenitz writes: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote: > SuSE 7.1 rpms are on > > http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c > om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm > > It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install. > Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine. > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ?? Try it ! > Andre' > > -- > André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I wish LyX becomes most popular document (not word) processor in the world, as it IS the best. But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago. You should set your target group at non-programmers. People like lawyers, ice-cream makers (you had one user I know off that made ice-cream) etc ... -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus <___/ www.mysql.com
