Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Thibaut Cuvelier]

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 20:54, Andrew Parsloe  wrote:

>
> On 17/01/2021 1:42 am, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> > Le 16/01/2021 à 04:36, Andrew Parsloe a écrit :
> >> As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-
> >> changed. To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a
> >> protected space. (To my mind, the odd one out is Alt+. to give an
> >> ellipsis rather than Ctrl+. for this function.  To maintain
> >> equilibrium I recall JMarc's description from 17 Jul 2018, "remember
> >> that LyX is a platypus: something so weirdly designed that everybody
> >> is surprised that it even exists.")
> >
> > Do you keep a list of my most famous quotes ? I am flattered ;)
> No, but the mention of platypuses obviously stuck. When I 'discovered'
> LyX about 15 years ago, the User's Guide had a picture of a platypus. It
> feels as if the unlikely creature has been a meme in LyX development for
> a long time.
> >
> > More seriously, it is important to keep a good balance between the
> > normal and the weird.
> >
> > JMarc
> Andrew
>

Based on the whole discussion, I'm in favour of only changing Alt+0 due to
the problematic behaviour on Windows (as far as I understand it, there is
no specific binding file for Windows). For macOS, there is already a
mac.bind file, and it already defines Ctrl++ and Ctrl+- for zooming. The
attached patch just does that single change.
unnamed2.patch

Maybe it's time to ship a Windows-specific bind file? In that case, the
zoom shortcuts would move to Ctrl+something, like for macOS and most
Windows apps, the hyphen would then become Alt+-. As I understand the
current code, the problem would be that this file would be almost a copy
from the standard file (with just a few changes), there is no possibility
to "include" another set of shortcuts.

What is the most usual shortcut in the Linux world (I'm using a singular to
refer to some kind of average over the two zillions distributions)? For
Firefox and Chrome, it looks like Ctrl++/- (
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/font-size-and-zoom-increase-size-of-web-pages,
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/326698/google-chrome-accidental-zoom/326729),
LibreOffice also uses Ctrl+something (
https://www.libreofficehelp.com/how-zoom-libreoffice-writer/). Maybe it's
best to switch to Ctrl+something for Linux too (and still have the same
file as for Windows), because current software seems to have settled on
this shortcut? That means reassigning the hyphen to Alt+-.
unnamed3.patch


unnamed2.patch
Description: Binary data


unnamed3.patch
Description: Binary data
-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 17/01/2021 1:42 am, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 16/01/2021 à 04:36, Andrew Parsloe a écrit :
As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-  
changed. To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a 
protected space. (To my mind, the odd one out is Alt+. to give an 
ellipsis rather than Ctrl+. for this function.  To maintain 
equilibrium I recall JMarc's description from 17 Jul 2018, "remember 
that LyX is a platypus: something so weirdly designed that everybody 
is surprised that it even exists.")


Do you keep a list of my most famous quotes ? I am flattered ;)
No, but the mention of platypuses obviously stuck. When I 'discovered' 
LyX about 15 years ago, the User's Guide had a picture of a platypus. It 
feels as if the unlikely creature has been a meme in LyX development for 
a long time.


More seriously, it is important to keep a good balance between the 
normal and the weird.


JMarc

Andrew
--
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[José Abílio Matos]

On Saturday, January 16, 2021 11:26:58 AM WET Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> This is what I had in mind too.
> 
> JMarc

I agree, this already applied in other cases as well, there is no need to go 
with a foreign convention.

-- 
José Abílio-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 16/01/2021 à 04:36, Andrew Parsloe a écrit :
As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-  changed. 
To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a protected space. 
(To my mind, the odd one out is Alt+. to give an ellipsis rather than 
Ctrl+. for this function.  To maintain equilibrium I recall JMarc's 
description from 17 Jul 2018, "remember that LyX is a platypus: 
something so weirdly designed that everybody is surprised that it even 
exists.")


Do you keep a list of my most famous quotes ? I am flattered ;)

More seriously, it is important to keep a good balance between the 
normal and the weird.


JMarc
--
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 16 janvier 2021 08:35:41 GMT+01:00, Richard Kimberly Heck  
a écrit :
>There is the option of having platform-specific bindings.

This is what I had in mind too. 

JMarc

-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/15/21 10:59 PM, Joel Kulesza wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:46 PM Scott Kostyshak  > wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
> > On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> > >> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic
> side-effect:
> > >> Alt+0
> > >> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to
> configure this
> > >> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave
> completely).
> > >>
> > >> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom
> level, at
> > >> least
> > >> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox,
> Chrome, and
> > >> IE), all
> > >> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
> > >> Notepad++.
> > >>
> > >> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as
> it's more
> > >> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the
> problem of
> > >> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think of this?
> > >
> > > There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be
> consistent
> > > these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
> > > Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?
> >
> > I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry
> too much
> > about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what
> others
> > have to say.
>
> I think I would support changing the bindings to be more
> consistent with other applications. I forget why we have things
> the way they are.
>
>
> Coming from another OS (macOS), I'd expect Ctrl-+ to be zoom in,
> Ctrl-"-" to be zoom out, and Ctrl-0 to be reset zoom (to be the
> corollaries of the idiomatic Cmd-... behavior on macOS).  So, I'd
> support this binding change.

There is the option of having platform-specific bindings.

Riki


-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/15/21 10:36 PM, Andrew Parsloe wrote:
> On 16/01/2021 3:46 pm, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
>>> On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
> Alt+0
> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure this
> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).
>
> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
> least
> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
> IE), all
> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
> Notepad++.
>
> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
>
> What do you think of this?
 There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
 these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
 Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?
>>> I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
>>> about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
>>> have to say.
>> I think I would support changing the bindings to be more consistent with 
>> other applications. I forget why we have things the way they are.
>>
>> Scott
>
> As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-  changed.
> To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a protected space
>
This is the kind of thing I had in mind. I've been using Ctrl+- for a
protected hyphen since Word Perfect, at least (which is what I used
before switching to Linux in 2002 or so).

Riki


-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/15/21 10:36 PM, Andrew Parsloe wrote:
> On 16/01/2021 3:46 pm, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
>>> On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
> Alt+0
> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure this
> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).
>
> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
> least
> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
> IE), all
> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
> Notepad++.
>
> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
>
> What do you think of this?
 There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
 these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
 Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?
>>> I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
>>> about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
>>> have to say.
>> I think I would support changing the bindings to be more consistent with 
>> other applications. I forget why we have things the way they are.
>>
>> Scott
>
> As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-  changed.
> To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a protected
> space. (To my mind, the odd one out is Alt+. to give an ellipsis
> rather than Ctrl+. for this function.  To maintain equilibrium I
> recall JMarc's description from 17 Jul 2018, "remember that LyX is a
> platypus: something so weirdly designed that everybody is surprised
> that it even exists.")
>
Does LyX glow under black light?

https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/scientists-find-platypuses-glow-under-black-light.html

Someone should file an enhancement request

Riki


-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Joel Kulesza]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:46 PM Scott Kostyshak  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
> > On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> > >> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
> > >> Alt+0
> > >> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure
> this
> > >> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).
> > >>
> > >> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
> > >> least
> > >> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
> > >> IE), all
> > >> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
> > >> Notepad++.
> > >>
> > >> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> > >> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> > >> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think of this?
> > >
> > > There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
> > > these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
> > > Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?
> >
> > I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
> > about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
> > have to say.
>
> I think I would support changing the bindings to be more consistent with
> other applications. I forget why we have things the way they are.
>

Coming from another OS (macOS), I'd expect Ctrl-+ to be zoom in, Ctrl-"-"
to be zoom out, and Ctrl-0 to be reset zoom (to be the corollaries of the
idiomatic Cmd-... behavior on macOS).  So, I'd support this binding change.

- Joel
-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Andrew Parsloe]

On 16/01/2021 3:46 pm, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:

On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:

However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
Alt+0
resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure this
shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).

Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
least
on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
IE), all
Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
Notepad++.

I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
changing zoom when you try to insert a character.

What do you think of this?

There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?

I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
have to say.

I think I would support changing the bindings to be more consistent with other 
applications. I forget why we have things the way they are.

Scott


As a LyX user on windows, I would be reluctant to see Ctrl+-  changed. 
To meit sits comfortably alongside Ctrl+space to give a protected space. 
(To my mind, the odd one out is Alt+. to give an ellipsis rather than 
Ctrl+. for this function.  To maintain equilibrium I recall JMarc's 
description from 17 Jul 2018, "remember that LyX is a platypus: 
something so weirdly designed that everybody is surprised that it even 
exists.")


Andrew

-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 08:27:23PM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
> On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> >> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
> >> Alt+0
> >> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure this
> >> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).
> >>
> >> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
> >> least
> >> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
> >> IE), all
> >> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
> >> Notepad++.
> >>
> >> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> >> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> >> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
> >>
> >> What do you think of this?
> >
> > There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
> > these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
> > Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?
> 
> I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
> about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
> have to say.

I think I would support changing the bindings to be more consistent with other 
applications. I forget why we have things the way they are.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/15/21 3:57 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
>> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
>> Alt+0
>> resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to configure this
>> shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave completely).
>>
>> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
>> least
>> on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome, and
>> IE), all
>> Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for LibreOffice or
>> Notepad++.
>>
>> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
>> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
>> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
>>
>> What do you think of this?
>
> There are also zooming shortcuts Alt+"+", Alt+"-". To be consistent
> these should also use Ctrl. But Ctrl+"-" is already bound to
> Hyphenation Point insert. Is it OK to rebind it to Alt+"-"?

I'm pretty used to it as it is. I'm not sure we need to worry too much
about consistency here, though I'll be interested to hear what others
have to say.

Riki


-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Pavel Sanda]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 02:00:10AM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
> 
> What do you think of this?

Looks reasonable. Pavel
-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel

Re: [Windows] Remove the default binding between buffer-zoom and Alt+0

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 1/14/21 8:00 PM, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> On Windows, you use the Alt key to enter special characters. For
> instance, Alt+0156 for œ, Alt+0171 for «, or ALT+0187 for ». Few
> standard keyboard layouts propose these characters.
>
> However, by default, in LyX, this has a very problematic side-effect:
> Alt+0 resets the zoom level to zero. Personally, I know how to
> configure this shortcut, but newcomers may be left puzzled (and leave
> completely).
>
> Moreover, it's more common to use Ctrl+0 to reset the zoom level, at
> least on Windows: most Web browsers do it (at least Firefox, Chrome,
> and IE), all Microsoft Office programs. It does not work for
> LibreOffice or Notepad++.
>
> I would propose to change the default binding to Ctrl+0, as it's more
> common (although not ubiquitous), and this would fix the problem of
> changing zoom when you try to insert a character.
>
> What do you think of this?

No objection here. I didn't even know about that binding.

Riki



-- 
lyx-devel mailing list
lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org
http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel